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    UAVs in Russian Armed Forces: News

    Sujoy
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    Post  Sujoy Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:00 pm

    Rogozin said in an interview with the Rossia-24 TV channel last Wednesday (Jun-13) that Russia and Israel are negotiating a joint project to build an unmanned aerial vehicle. Russia's aim according to Rogozin is to persuade Israel to start technological cooperation and to develop a product that will be used in both countries, and could also be sold to third countries.Technology would be attracted by localizing production on Russian territory.

    The Russian Defense Ministry is considering the possibility of purchasing from the Israeli company Aeronautics Defense Systems of three types of UAV control systems (eight each): Orbiter 2, Aerostar and Skystar,
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    Post  GarryB Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:46 pm

    Sounds to me like Putin is prepared to invest a lot of money into UAVs... a joint venture with Israel might be useful and save some time and money, but I rather doubt Israel will sell Russia anything highly secret or capable... which is perfectly understandible.

    Would be useful, but I would prefer to see Russian money invested in Russian companies and if they don't have the capability or experience... there is only one way they will get it... and that is from experience.


    I rather expect that the combination of laser guided ATAKA and Kornet-EM and now Krisantema with laser beam and SARH guidance together with the smaller and lighter Ugroza guidance kits for unguided rockets that they will be spoiled for choice for their light UCAVs.

    Together with Igla-S and probably satellite guided FAB-50 bombs... the latter perhaps carried internally and they have the capability to hit a range of point targets without too much expense.

    Certainly in terms of innovation, they have rocket launched UAVs based on Smerch rockets for use in target detection and damage assessment, they have large box shaped pods for helicopter launched UAVs, and they have UAVs that can drop glider payloads with weights of up to 25 kgs each to silently deliver weapons or water or food or ammo to forces on the battlefield. I rather suspect they have a wide range of ideas just waiting for an injection of money to realise.

    Most important is that all the branches of the Russian military seem to be keen to add UAVs to their forces to expand their capabilities. The war in Georgia was a wake up call I think... because before then there was a lot of talk about new purchases and spending but very little action.
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    Post  Sujoy Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:18 am

    Russia’s military hardware manufacturers have already started developing their own unmanned aerial vehicle similar to the Predator drones.At present, two Russian companies, Tranzas Company in St. Petersburg and Sokol Design Bureau in Kazan are engaged in developing Predator-class drones. As a reminder ,last year, they won the Russian Defence Ministry’s tender and are developing two vehicles. The payload of the first is about one ton. The second one is close to the American Predator and weighs about 4.5-5.0 tons.
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    Post  Sujoy Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:16 pm

    RIA NOVOSTI

    Russian army will receive first Indigenous Strike UAV in 2014.St. Petersburg-based Tranzas company has been ordered to start flight tests of the strike drone in the beginning of 2014 in order to put it in service by the end of the same year
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    Post  GarryB Fri Jun 29, 2012 6:49 pm

    Boy, that is a fairly tight schedule...

    Of course it might be a disposable cheap model rather than a super sophisticated stealthy model.

    It is funny how early on UAVs were supposed to be the answer because they were cheap and disposable, yet current HALE models cost more than lead in fighter trainer aircraft and are certainly not disposable.

    A cheap simple 1-2 ton aircraft with a decent range and half ton payload that could be mass produced would make a lot of sense.

    In fact the ideal propulsion would be the sort of jet engine as used on the V-1 doodlebug which is cheap and simple too.

    If it makes it back then refuel and rearm and reprogram, and if it doesn't... no big deal...
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    Post  KomissarBojanchev Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:56 am

    Its a pity that the soviets didnt modify the Tu-123 or Tu-141 to have landing gear(or at least landing skids), replace the camera equipment with targeting sights and added 2 or 3 hardpoints for dumb bombs up to the FAB-250 and light missiles like the kh-23 and kh-25. Wouldve been a badass early UCAV that wouldve predated the americans flimsy predators.
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    Post  GarryB Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:34 am

    Its a pity that the soviets didnt modify the Tu-123 or Tu-141 to have landing gear(or at least landing skids), replace the camera equipment with targeting sights and added 2 or 3 hardpoints for dumb bombs up to the FAB-250 and light missiles like the kh-23 and kh-25. Wouldve been a badass early UCAV that wouldve predated the americans flimsy predators.

    Actually it was the Tu-123/141 like UAVs that put the Russian AF off UAVs in general.

    These big Tupolevs were expensive, especially the 123 that was not recoverable. Its engine was similar to the engine in the Mig-25 and offered very high performance but the cost of a single use drone was enormous even for the Soviets who were happy to throw money at problems.

    From memory there were several attempts to market armed UAVs based on the Tu designs, but the RuAF and the Russian Armed forces generally (except the Army with their Pechelkas) really wasn't interested until 2008 when they saw first hand what they were capable of.

    If I was building a UCAV these days I would recommend an armament of perhaps 8 Kornet-EM missiles on the wings in droppable single tubes and an internal weapon bay with perhaps 10 or more KAB-50 bombs with GLONASS guidance kits. High accuracy making a large warhead unnecessary.
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    Post  medo Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:12 pm

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=q7dK740HmHM

    First Russian build Searcher 2 UAVs are now in production. It seems they will be also for MChS and MVD units.
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    Post  medo Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:48 pm

    http://www.lenta.ru/news/2012/10/09/uavs/

    Russian ground forces and VDV will receive Orlan-10 UAVs in 2013.
    medo
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    Post  medo Sat Oct 13, 2012 2:51 am

    http://vpk.name/news/76877_izrailskie_bespilotniki_okazalis_ne_gotovyi_k_russkoi_zime.html

    Russian military will have to adapt Israeli UAVS to be capable to operate in winter. In 2012 Russian army will receive 4 Russian made Searcher 2 and 12 Bird eye 400 UAVs.
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    Post  GarryB Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:54 am

    A Russian designed UAV also needed modifications for the Russian winter.

    I think it was Tipchak that used a big rubber bungey cord to launch the UAV.

    In very cold temperatures the rubber material failed and the UAVs could not be launched.

    Would be amusing to design a sort of mini trebuche type launcher with a big long arm with a short line attached to the front of the UAV where a dropping weight slings to arm over to catapult the UAV into the sky.

    You would want to be sure the engine was already running well before launch, and you wouldn't want a UAV that was too fragile, but it would be cheap and reusable (which is why they tried rubber bungey launcing).

    Other launching techniques include rocket motor... which is expensive and hard to hide, or a runway launch... which of course requires a runway.
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    Post  medo Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:12 pm

    Not all. Small Zala UAVs could be launched from hand, while bigger Zala-421-16 have pneumatic catapult.
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    Post  GarryB Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:26 am

    once you get over about 15kgs hand launch is not really a viable option.

    Most larger UAVs have vehicles associated with them so a compressor with a pneumatic launcher is a good all weather solution.

    To be honest when I first read about the bungey cord launch option I thought it was very clever as it is relatively cheap and reusable, and I didn't consider the effects of very low temperatures on the elastic nature of the rubber.

    Of course another option for the near future could be EM catapult, but it would be necessary to shield the UAV from the effects of powerful magnetic forces.

    Another option of course for very cold temperatures could simply be a hot air balloon like a barrage balloon... a large envelope with a gas burner to heat the air up with 4-5 small UAVs hanging below with a tether to your 4 wheel drive vehicle.

    Turn on the burner and the entire envelope will rise and take the UAVs a hundred metres up or so attached with the tether so it doesn't disappear.

    When it gets to height it can release UAVs as they are needed and they can fall vertically straight down to get up to speed and pull up and fly on to its preprogrammed flight path, or be manually controlled.

    For some missions you might not even need to release them... they could view the area from the balloon.
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    Post  Mr.Kalishnikov47 Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:38 am

    MiG and Sukhoi to develop heavy attack drone

    Russian aircraft company "MIG" and "Dry" signed an agreement on cooperation in the development of unmanned aerial vehicles. On Thursday, October 25, according to ITAR-TASS referring to the general director of "MiG" Sergei Korotkov.
    According Korotkov, "MiG" will take part in the project, the tender for which previously won the Holding "Sukhoi". According to the agency, in July 2012 the Russian Defense Ministry has chosen the company "dry" as the main proponent of heavy percussion drone. Possible future machine specifications were not disclosed.

    Earlier work together on drums drone began of "Falcon" and "Transas". However, it was the middle class UAVs weighing up to five tons. However, several military sources, which refers to Itar-Tass, a joint project called "Falcon" and "Transas" more intelligence than the impact drone. In addition, the "Falcon" and "Transas" working together on UAVs weighing up to one ton. The total amount of funding of both projects is estimated at three billion.

    ITAR-TASS referring to the representative RAC "MiG", the company said on Oct. 25 as a significant increase in the use of composite materials in the construction of aircraft MiG-29. Instead of two or three per cent of the volume of composite materials in the construction of fighters is already 10-12 per cent. In particular, the use of composite materials has made half the area of ​​the outer surface of the aircraft. This, in turn, reduces the weight of the aircraft, to increase resistance to corrosion and design its rigidity.

    http://lenta.ru/news/2012/10/25/uav/

    (Google translate)
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    Post  Austin Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:22 pm

    Moscow Defense Brief

    Russian Imports of Israeli UAVs

    Mikhail Barabanov

    Israeli-made unmanned aerial vehicles were the first major weapons system Russia began to import from the West in the late-2000s after a long pause that had lasted since 1945. Before Russia signed a contract for two Mistral-class amphibious assault ships with France in 2011, imports of Israeli UAVs were the main symbol of the Russian MoD’s new readiness to source its weapons from foreign suppliers.

    The first contracts for Israeli drones attracted a lot of attention from the media and the expert community. But, unlike the MoD’s subsequent decisions to buy ships from France or Iveco LMV armored vehicles from Italy, they did not cause much controversy. Russia’s own defense industry is obviously lagging behind Western competitors in the UAV segment. That is why very few people questioned the rationale for importing such systems in order to gain access to the latest technologies and to start building up Russian expertise in operating this new weapons type.

    The Russian armed forces already have some solid experience with large jet-engine UAVs; that experience dates back to Soviet times, when such systems were designed by the Tupolev Bureau. In the 1980s the Soviet armed forces also began to roll out light tactical drones (such as the Pchela UAV, a Yakovlev bureau design). But by the time the Soviet Union began to break up, its defense industry was already lagging well behind in the new miniaturized UAV segment. In the subsequent years Russia was in the throes of a deep economic crisis, and all defense procurement programs were put on hold for a decade and a half. During those years the Russian armed forces simply could not afford any new weapons, let alone radically new systems requiring expensive R&D. That period coincided with rapid progress in Western UAV technologies, which have made a veritable breakthrough over the past two decades.

    As a result, by the time Russia had emerged from the economic crisis in the mid-2000s, a large gap separated it from the world leaders in building and operating UAVs. After 2000 the Russian defense industry made attempts to close that gap, but to no great avail. That industry itself was in decline; to make matters worse, several strategic errors were made in the planning of UAV programs. In particular, for a long time the government was trying to get the necessary results in the UAV segment from the existing design bureaus which specialized in large aircraft (Tupolev, Sukhoi, and Yakovlev), or from the old Soviet makers of electronics, which had no experience at all with such products. For example, at one point the government designated the Vega electronics concern as the lead Russian designer of UAVs. Also, there was no clear understanding that the success of any UAV design depends primarily on the control and payload systems, not on the airframe. The Russian MoD was initially wary of using commercially available or imported payload solutions, and tried to use indigenously made electronics, which were manifestly obsolete.

    Meanwhile, one of the main difficulties faced by the military was a total lack of experience in operating modern drones; neither was there a clear understanding of what that technology is actually capable of. As a result the MoD was finding it difficult even to formulate its own requirements to UAVs. It did not really know how that technology can be used, what role it can be assigned in the armed forces, what to do with the UAV-generated reconnaissance data, etc. In other words, the military did not understand what drones are for, and what to do with them.

    In such a situation, buying modern commercially available UAVs seemed like the quickest and the most obvious solution to the problem. After all, that is exactly what many other countries are doing. By receiving small batches of modern foreign-made drones, the armed forces can assess their capability and gain some initial experience in their use, determine the role they can play in the military strategies, assess the various available technologies, train personnel, and lay the ground for future training programs.

    When Russia was choosing the supplier of UAV technology, there were two clear world leaders in that segment, the United States and Israel. Approaching the United States was unthinkable for political reasons, so Israel was the natural choice. The decision was made easier by a significant improvement in Russian-Israeli relations saw in almost every area throughout the 2000s.

    First experience with Aeronautics Defense Systems

    Some individual Russian companies attempted to take the initiative and establish cooperation in UAV technology with Israeli suppliers as far back as the early 2000s. In 2002 the Irkut corporation signed a cooperation agreement with Aeronautics Defense Systems, a small Israeli defense company. Under the terms of the deal, ADS-designed Aerostar tactical drones (which have a range of up to 250km) were to be used in conjunction with the Be-200ChS aircraft by the Russian Emergencies Ministry. Irkut wanted to buy them as part of a ministry-commissioned project called “Aerial robotic monitoring and liquidation of emergency situations”, and use them to detect forest fires. The project was advertized by Irkut at the MAKS-2003 air show.

    The Russian company viewed cooperation with ADS as a way of entering the UAV market before launching independent R&D projects in this segment, including the development of drones for military applications. In October 2003 Irkut president A. Fedorov had this to say: «The new project of Irkut corporation, Unmanned Aerial Vehicles, is a very promising segment of military and civilian aerospace technology. Our first experience here is a small drone which we are working on for the Emergencies Ministry. We expect that this drone will work in tandem with the Be-200 amphibious aircraft to deal with fires and other emergencies. This is a very competitive market, and Russia is lagging well behind the world leaders such as Israel, the United States and EADS. That is why Ikrut has taken an unusual step: rather than trying to develop out first UAV independently, we are doing it in cooperation with foreign partners. We have chosen a foreign company which has a lot of experience in this area, a small privately-owned Israeli company which is making a lot of progress and strengthening its positions in this market segment. We will work together to develop this drone and win a share of the market for small UAVs.»1

    The actual contract for a batch of Aerostar UAVs, worth «several million dollars», was signed by Irkut and ADS in September 2004.2 But the Israeli company then walked out of the deal, saying that it could not obtain the necessary permissions from the Israeli defense ministry. Relations between Irkut and ADS were broken off.3

    It is known, however, that at about the same time the Russian Federal Security Service, the FSB, bought from ADS several Skystar aerostat observation systems. They were used to provide security during the G8 summit in St Petersburg in 2006.4

    In early 2010 the Kommersant newspaper reported that the FSB was in talks with ADS to buy at least five Orbiter-series mini-UAVs, which have a range of 15 to 100 km. The report was denied by the FSB press service,5 but unofficial sources insist that the deal has in fact been signed.

    Contracts with Israel Aerospace Industries

    Contacts between the Russian MoD and Israel to discuss the purchase of military UAVs are thought to have begun soon after the appointment of Anatoliy Serdyukov as defense minister in early 2007. Russian interest in Israeli-made drones was spurred by the fact that Georgia used such drones (primarily the Hermes 450 UAVs bought from Elbit Systems) during a confrontation with Russian forces in Abkhazia in the spring of 2008 and during the conflict over South Ossetia in August 2008. According to official reports, five Georgian Hermes 450 drones were shot down by Russian and Abkhaz air defenses during the stand-off in Abkhazia. The fact that Elbit Systems had sold its UAVs to Georgia made it politically impossible for Moscow to approach the company. That is why Russia chose another leading Israeli drone maker, the state-owned Israel Aerospace Industries (IAI).

    Lengthy talks with the Israelis initially ran into opposition by the United States, which did not want advanced Israeli technology to fall into the hands of the Russians. But American objections to the proposed deal were lifted following the arrival of the Obama administration, which announced its Reset policy on Russia. Nevertheless, for reasons which probably included American pressure, Israel refused to sell its MALE-class, long-range IAI Heron UAVs. But it did approve the sale of shorter-range drones, including the IAI Bird-Eye mini-UAV (up to 10km range), and two tactical drones, the IAI I-View Mk 150 (up to 100km range) and the Searcher Mk II (up to 250km range). At a later point Russia decided against buying the I-View Mk 150, in an apparent belief that the drone had already become obsolete.

    In April 2009 Rosoboronexport and IAI signed an historic contract for a batch of various reconnaissance drones worth 53m dollars, to be delivered to the Russian MoD. Under the terms of the deal, IAI supplied an undisclosed number of Bird-Eye 400 and Searcher Mk II UAV sets, with three drones in each set. Final deliveries under the contract were made in late 2010.

    That same year Russia placed an order for an additional batch of the IAI Bird-Eye 400 and IAI Searcher Mk II UAVs worth about 50m dollars, bringing the overall value of the contracts with IAI to an estimated 100m dollars.6

    The drones were delivered to the Russian Defense Ministry’s R&D centers and the 1327th UAV Combat Training Center in Kolomna, Moscow Region (created in 2009 from the former 924th center in Yegoryevsk). Later in 2011 the Bird-Eye 400 mini-UAVs were transferred from the Kolomna center to Army reconnaissance units.7 Several Searcher Mr II drones were assigned to two special reconnaissance brigades which were formed in the North Caucasus in the past few years (there are plans for a total of 10 such Army brigades). The Russian operators of the IAI drones were trained by Israeli instructors at the Kubinka testing range near Moscow.8

    In addition to extensive testing, the Israeli drones were used in a number of large Army maneuvers in 2010-2012.

    In October 2010 the OPK Oboronprom corporation (a sister company of Rosoboronexport and part of the Rostekhnologii group) signed a 400m-dollar contract with IAI to assemble the Searcher Mk II and the Bird-Eye 400 tactical UAVs in Russia for the Ministry of Defense. The two drone models were given the local designations Forpost and Zastava, respectively. Russia initially chose the Kazan Helicopter Plant to host the new venture, but in 2011 that choice was changed in favor of the Urals Civil Aviation Plant (UZGA), an Oboronprom affiliate in Yekaterinburg.9 Some 10m dollars has been invested in the venture at UZGA. Tests of the first Forpost and Zastava drones assembled from Israeli components in Yekaterinburg were scheduled to begin in October-November 2012.10

    In 2011 the MoD placed an order with UZGA for a total of 27 Zastava sets (worth 1.329bn roubles) and 10 Forpost sets (worth 9.006bn roubles), for delivery in 2012-2014.11

    The size of the contract indicates that the Searcher Mk II and the Bird-Eye 400 will form the core of the Russian armed forces’ UAV fleet in their respective segments (tactical and mini-UAVs) for the coming decade. The Israeli technology will be dominant over that period, even though the MoD has also signed several contracts to develop indigenous Russian UAVs.

    Throughout the talks with the Israelis Russia continued to seek the permission to buy the MALE-class long-range IAI Heron drones, which have a range of 1,000-1,500 km and can stay aloft for 40-50 hours. To the best of our knowledge, however, Israel is refusing to budge - owing perhaps to pressure from the United States. The largest drone the Israeli government has approved for sale to Russia so far is the Searcher Mk II.

    Other possible options

    The large contracts signed by the Russian MoD with IAI have been a positive signal for other Israeli companies, who are also trying to win a share of the Russian UAV market. Two small Israeli drone makers, BlueBird Aero Systems ?? Innocon, opened their offices in Russia in 2011, although no actual deals have been signed with them, as far as we are aware.12

    The Russian military are said to have been slightly underwhelmed by their first experience with the IAI drones, both in terms of the UAVs’ operational capabilities and their ability to withstand the Russian climate.13 In 2012 the MoD was reportedly showing interest in the UAVs made by the already mentioned ADS. In December 2011 the Israeli company hosted a senior delegation from the ministry. The two sides were said to be negotiating a possible contract for Orbiter and Aerostar-series UAVs. In May 2012 these talks were continued on behalf of the MoD by OAO Oboronservis, a company consisting of former military repair plants and still subordinated to the ministry.14 The MoD was reportedly interested in three UAV types: the Orbiter 2 mini-drones, the Aerostar tactical UAVs, and the Skystar light unmanned observation aerostats. It wanted to buy eight drone sets of each type, 24 sets in total, to test them in action; each set includes two or three drones. The proposed contract is estimated at 53m dollars.15

    Development of indigenous Russian UAVs is currently one of the MoD’s top R&D spending priorities. Nevertheless, for the next several years the ministry will rely on importing mini-UAVs and tactical drones from Israel. It appears that foreign suppliers won’t sell Russia their large, long-endurance MALE and HALE-class drones for political reasons. In this particular segment the MoD will have to wait for indigenous R&D projects to deliver. Until then the Russian military will have no experience in operating such systems.

    It remains unclear whether and to what extent the MoD is satisfied with its relationship with IAI. One likely area of concern is access to advanced UAV technologies. For now, the UZGA plant merely assembles Israeli-designed drones from large components supplied from Israel itself. Some Israeli and Western commentators have expressed concerns that Russia will try to copy or reverse-engineer the drones it buys from Israel. That seems unlikely. Copying foreign technology would run counter to the long-established practices of Russian defense R&D. All the Russian defense technology developers seek to promote their own designs for reasons of prestige and access to financing, even where other approaches would be more effective. In the long run, therefore, Israeli UAVs will be gradually replaced by indigenous Russian technology. The drones currently being imported are meant primarily as demonstration units for Russian UAV developers and for the Russian military.

    1. INTERFAX-AVN, October 22, 2003.

    2. Yediot Ahronot, 19.09.2004.

    3. Haaretz, 12.08.2004.

    4. www.prleap.com/pr/46530.

    5. bmpd.livejournal.com/229482.html.

    6. In Strategic flight // Elspert-Ural, August 27, 2012.

    7. twower.livejournal.com/757224.html.

    8. Fedutinov D. UAVs: results and trends of 2011 // Natsionalnaya Oborona. No 12, 2011.

    9. In September 2012 control of UZGA was transferred from Oboronprom to United Engine Corporation (ODK).

    10. Production of UAVs begins in Sverdlovsk Region // Oblastnaya Gazeta (Yekaterinburg), September 6, 2012.

    11. 2011 Annual Report of OAO Urals Civil Aviation Plant // www.uwca.ru/about/official.

    12. Fedutinov D. UAVs: results and trends of 2011 // Natsionalnaya Oborona. No 12, 2011.

    13. shurigin.livejournal.com/349846.html.

    14. Ibid.

    15. Russia considers buying 50m dollars worth of Israeli UAVs // RIA Novosti, May 15, 2012.

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    Post  Russian Patriot Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:22 am

    ZHUHAI, November 13 (RIA Novosti) - Russian aircraft maker Sukhoi is to focus on creating reconnaissance and strike unmanned air vehicles (UAV) in the near future, United Aircraft Corporation President Mikhail Pogosyan said at the Zhuhai Airshow China exhibition on Tuesday.

    Sukhoi, which has historically designed fighter and ground attack aircraft but now also builds some civil aircraft, is part of UAC, a holding covering most of Russia's aircraft industry.

    "UAVs are a strategic avenue for development for UAC, and Sukhoi is focused on creating reconnaissance and strike UAVs. But our firm plans on this are in the future," he said.

    Previous UAVs created for Russia's amed forces have been produced by Tranzas and Sokol, in addition to Sukhoi.

    Sukhoi has designs on its website for a series of unmanned aircraft known as Zond, optimised for the carriage of surveillance and synthetic-aperture radars and electro-optical sensors.

    In 2011, Sukhoi won a contract to develope a heavy strike UAV with a mass of around 20 tons, Fedutinov said. Another Russian fighter aircraft design bureau, RAC MiG, will also be involved in this program, MiG's CEO Sergei Korotkov told Russian media earlier this year.

    MiG showed a demonstrator strike UAV design known as Skat at the MAKS airshow in Moscow in 2007.

    St. Petersburg-based Tranzas and Kazan-based Sokol won a tender in October 2011 to create two UAV systems with a mass of one ton and five tons respectively.

    http://en.rian.ru/military_news/20121113/177420795.html
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    Post  GarryB Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:18 am

    This would be very interesting as for quite some time there has been a large gap in Frontal Aviation where all the single seat fighter bombers were withdrawn from service leaving largely Mig-29s and Su-27s.

    The result of all these aircraft including dedicated strike aircraft like Su-17/20/22 and Mig-27 as well as swing aircraft like the Mig-23 and Mig-21 plus older model Migs like the Mig-17, the former having some night and all weather capability while the latter having only fair weather daylight only air to ground capability were all withdrawn from service leaving relatively sophisticated interceptor/fighters with fairly basic or primitive air to ground capability.

    The upgraded models like the Su-27SM and Mig-29SMT did not enter service in significant numbers so there was a huge gap in short range and light strike capability. Using standard Su-27s and Mig-29s for such a role was a bit of a waste as they would be no better at it than earlier fighters but were much more expensive.

    Having a 20 ton class strike drone would fill a gap that is also being closed with the introduction of Mig-29SMT and either 29M2 or 35D model Migs as well as Su-27SM and Su-30SM and of course Su-35 aircraft.

    These more sophisticated multirole aircraft can attack ground targets at safer distances with standoff weapons, but their cost will mean that they will not be in service in large numbers, so the use of drones for strike roles makes a lot of sense.

    Previously the idea was that the fighter bombers would be sent up as fighters to clear the skies of enemy aircraft... after which a percentage would then start attacking ground targets while other aircraft continued to keep the sky clear of enemy air activity.

    With drones however you can start attacking enemy ground targets earlier on in the campaign.

    I should be clear, deep strike by aircraft like the Su-24 and now Su-34 would start early on too because the effect of their destroying rear area high value targets can lead to an early enemy collapse and disruption of any attacks the enemy might be making. Plenty of attacks have stalled or never taken place because the fuel or ammo or troops that were going to take part in the attack were hit in rear areas and never made it to their staging points.

    I am talking about battlefield targets in or near the front line for drone attacks.

    For this purpose the drone ideally would need the ability to fly on its own, find its own targets, and most useful of all would be the ability to fly at extremes... either very low and fast or very high and fast, with the ability to pull turns that no other aircraft with humans in it could match. Being able to make a 30g turn would make the job of shooting it down with a missile rather difficult (though not impossible of course).

    In fact I think two types of drone would be useful... a stealthy drone that flies at medium altitudes would make flight range and speed easier and make it safe from most ground fire in COIN type operations and situations where the friendly country is a superpower (ie Russia) and the target country is not (like Afghanistan or Georgia).
    Such a drone could be shot down by major SAMs but most of the countries Russia might be active against wont have such systems, or wont have such systems for long... in fact a medium altitude flying strike drone would have been the ideal system for use in Georgia as it could have been flown into enemy airspace armed with weapons to take out the SA-11s. They might have lost one drone or perhaps two, but engaging the drones would have revealed the air defences and the drones engaged or those flying with them could have cleaned up the threats.

    The other drone would be for use against an enemy with more sophisticated air defences and air power so still stealthy, but low flying would be the key till air control is achieved, then they can move to medium altitudes where they will be safer from MANPADS and ground fire.

    For the smaller UCAVs weapons like a guided 50kg bomb (ie a KAB-50) with satellite guidance and even Kornet-EM or an improved Krisantema would be useful weapons. For a 20 ton aircraft then a weapon bay with room for about 4 tons of bombs would be useful, though in many cases the use of guided bombs would make raw HE power less useful so instead of a payload of say 4 x 1,000kg bombs, or perhaps 2 x 1,500kg bombs for use against big or hard targets, a more useful load might be 20 x 50kg guided bombs... which is only about 1 ton, but would allow large numbers of targets to be engaged.
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    Post  TheArmenian Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:46 am

    Various Russian UAVs at the UVS-Tech 2012 exhibition:

    Part 1: http://missiles2go.ru/2012/11/13/uvs-tech-2012_1/

    Part 2: http://missiles2go.ru/2012/11/13/uvs-tech-2012_2/
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    Post  collegeboy16 Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:32 pm

    Um, sorry for being a little Off Topic , but are UAVs, esp. large stealthy, and expensive ones vulnerable to EMP? If this is so then what measures are currently being taken to eliminate this fatal weakness, and how does Russia try to exploit it?
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    Post  GarryB Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:44 pm

    EMP weapons are not actually very widely deployed and currently do not pose a serious threat.

    A greater risk is that your enemies might hack into your live feed data stream and see what you are seeing... or worse they might take control of your drone and steal it.

    Standard procedure would be to harden the electronics to minimise the effect of outside interference, and to keep the command channels secure.

    Of course the ideal drone is the one the enemy doesn't even notice.
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    Post  collegeboy16 Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:46 am

    Ok now that the EMP non-issue is settled, I have two questions. In the near future, are the Russians just opting for a recon UAV or one that gives them the capability to strike at targets with impunity? Does the demand for UGVs(Unmanned Ground Vehicle) match those of the UAVs? I get the distinct feeling that they already have their hands full on their modernization efforts that projects like these are postponed indefinitely. I mean it is not before long that they have fielded Armatas that they would be looking to turn those vehicles into UGVs anyway, so why not invest now?
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    Post  GarryB Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:07 pm

    In the near future, are the Russians just opting for a recon UAV or one that gives them the capability to strike at targets with impunity?


    After the conflict in Georgia the Russians admitted that their C4IR capacity was basically nonexistent. They started working hard on their infrastructure for communications and command and control and introducing into service the communications equipment and navigation equipment needed in a modern military force. They also acknowledged they needed improvements in intel and recon and I suspect their first focus will be MALE and HALE and other recon platforms, and they have mentioned that Sokol and Transas are working on several UAVs. They have also disclosed they are also working on UCAVs for strike missions and that Sukhoi and MIG are cooperating on a 20 ton class aircraft... which pretty much makes it a Mig-29 class UCAV.

    Does the demand for UGVs(Unmanned Ground Vehicle) match those of the UAVs? I get the distinct feeling that they already have their hands full on their modernization efforts that projects like these are postponed indefinitely. I mean it is not before long that they have fielded Armatas that they would be looking to turn those vehicles into UGVs anyway, so why not invest now?

    I would suggest that part of the new force structure that there will be several recon vehicles equipped with both land and aerial robots to find targets. Unmanned land vehicles would have less mobility and might be more useful in areas like demolition, whereas aerial vehicles used by ground forces can cover more ground faster... making it more useful for ground forces too.

    Rather suspect they are already investing.
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    Post  medo Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:32 am

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/428625.html

    In December 2012 Ural producer start with flight tests of first russian build Sercher II UAVs and they are tested in winter cold of -30°C and in -50°C in 2000 m altitude and it works well.
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    Post  GarryB Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:49 am

    http://okb-sokol.ru/

    Based on the design of this UAV it is clearly a HALE type, with its very long span thin main wing and low drag simple tail design, while the twin engines should provide lots of power to operate high in thin air.

    I would suspect the engines are turboprops, but perhaps a reader of Russian text can confirm that either way.

    Looks like a very simple clean design with the prop wash going directly over the tail surfaces which is excellent for controllability and flight performance. (without a decent uniform airflow most conventional control surfaces either stall or simply don't function, so by putting the tail control surfaces in line with the prop wash even if the aircraft is in stall and falling backwards the airflow from the prop should allow some control capability for the tail surfaces. The only draw back is that in normal flight the high speed air over the tail would make it much more effective than it would otherwise be so the controls would be quite sensitive... I am sure the programmer of the auto pilot can handle that though.
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    Post  Viktor Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:17 am

    There are talks that this is a UCAV a Russian 5 ton Predator.


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