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    Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News

    AMCXXL
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    Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News - Page 15 Empty Re: Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News

    Post  AMCXXL Wed Aug 04, 2021 1:17 pm

    Mir wrote:Yes clearly the third version is more combat orientated with all the self defense equipment fitted. It also carries the name mi-8AMTSh-1 - same as the standard VIP version. I guess this version would be good for a General to go and kick someones butt on the front line Smile

    Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News - Page 15 Amtsh110

    No, actually the generals go in the standard VIP version, in the special version the Minister of Defense himself goes

    In any case it is not a "version" manufactured in series, but a singular helicopter
    The designation is the same, in any case to distinguish the helicopter the Minister of Defense, I would call it "Mi8AMTSh-1 MD"  Laughing

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/1075319.html
    The materials of the arbitration case A40-81707 / 14 revealed some details of the delivery of the exclusive Mi-8AMTSh-1 helicopters to the Russian Air Force, ordered under the former Minister of Defense I.E. Serdyukov and combining the features of military and civilian VIP aviation thanks to weapon systems and electronic wrestling (EW), as well as a VIP-salon with leather furniture.

    The initial decision No.MI-8AMTSh-06-2010 on the procedure for the manufacture, testing, delivery of two MI-8AMTSh-1 helicopters and their admission into operation was approved by the Chief of the General Staff of the RF Armed Forces N. Makarov on July 1, 2011. This decision substantiated the need to manufacture for the needs of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation on the basis of the serially produced OJSC U-UAZ military transport helicopter MI-8AMTSh two helicopters-salons of the new modification Mi-8AMTSh-1. OJSC “U-UAZ” was identified as the lead contractor for the manufacture and supply of aircraft, with which on August 1, 2011 a corresponding state contract was concluded for the supply of two helicopters with serial numbers AMTS01643115707U and AMTS01643115708U. The cost of each of them amounted to 304 million rubles.
    Mir
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    Post  Mir Wed Aug 04, 2021 1:40 pm

    You can call it "Mi-8AMTSh-1 MD" - then I will call it Mi-8AMTSh-1 "Saloon 3" ok! Laughing
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    Post  AMCXXL Wed Aug 04, 2021 5:57 pm

    Mir wrote:You can call it "Mi-8AMTSh-1 MD" - then I will call it Mi-8AMTSh-1 "Saloon 3" ok! Laughing

    the helicopter of the Minister of Defense (2010), is several years prior to the first copy of the standard VIP version Mi-8AMSTh-1, which are still being received, therefore it would go before in a list and the list is of only two Mi-AMTSh-1 models .

    If you count all the VIP versions that are still in service in the they will be 6 or more, perhaps more and if you count all the ones that the Russian State has, they will surely be 8 or more

    Mi-8PS
    Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News - Page 15 28053210

    M-8MTV-1S
    Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News - Page 15 27855410

    Mi-8MVT-1P
    Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News - Page 15 27712410

    Mi-8MTV in service with 8º Spacial Division (without tail numbers), probably was refurbished
    Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News - Page 15 09370010

    Mi-8MTV-2 in service with 8º Spacial Division (without tail numbers), probably was refurbished
    Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News - Page 15 11304510

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    Post  Mir Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:50 pm

    I was under the impression that the Mi-8PS was a communication relay version even though it has "VIP" windows.

    Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News - Page 15 Mi-8ps10
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    Post  AMCXXL Fri Aug 06, 2021 1:02 pm

    Mir wrote:I was under the impression that the Mi-8PS was a communication relay version even though it has "VIP" windows.

    Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News - Page 15 Mi-8ps10


    The military "saloon" helicopters are not mere flying limousines, they are to carry generals and their staff and must also carry communications and other things.

    P is "passanger" (Пассажирские) and S is "saloon" (салон)

    In Russian wilipedia the definitions of many variants come, although I am not sure they are completely exact, since there are almost infinite variants, almost as many as contracts signed with different clients, basically many versions are made to suit the consumer
    PS is mentioned twice, however the military designation in russianplanes is P(S). I believe that these helicopters were remanufactured (there are photos of some with round windows and then square), if not all, at least the series with license plate RF-190xx that is still in service


    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ми-8

    Mi-8P - passenger helicopter with 28 seats. Has rectangular windows.
    Mi-8PA is a modification of the Mi-8P with the TV2-117F GTD engines.
    Mi-8PS - a passenger helicopter with a high-comfort cabin: two large leather chairs near the table, a sofa, and a telephone set on the table; a small sideboard, a dressing compartment and a toilet, enlarged rectangular windows, and a ladder door are provided.
    Mi-8TP is a passenger helicopter built by order of the Ministry of Defense specifically for the transportation of international inspection teams to control arms limitation measures. It has a more than modest salon, in comparison with the Mi-8PS, a powerful communication station with a cable antenna produced in flight and a workstation for the operator of this station. It was located behind the right pilot between the cockpit partitions and the passenger compartment. The car was produced at the Ulan-Ude plant.

    PS also is listed again below here

    Special purpose
    Mi-8PS-7 of the Special Flight Squad "Russia" of the Administrative Department of the President of the Russian Federation.
    Mi-8PS is a command helicopter with square windows.

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    Mir
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    Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News - Page 15 Empty Re: Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News

    Post  Mir Fri Aug 06, 2021 1:10 pm

    AMCXXL wrote:
    The military "saloon" helicopters are not mere flying limousines, they are to carry generals and their staff and must also carry communications and other things.


    I did not think otherwise yes Smile

    Thanks for all the additional info though I would not consider some of the versions like M-8MTV-1S and M-8MTV-1P to be "strictly military" but never the less they serve the purpose of being "VIP".
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    Post  AMCXXL Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:24 pm

    Mir wrote:
    AMCXXL wrote:
    The military "saloon" helicopters are not mere flying limousines, they are to carry generals and their staff and must also carry communications and other things.


    I did not think otherwise yes Smile

    Thanks for all the additional info though I would not consider some of the versions like M-8MTV-1S and M-8MTV-1P to be "strictly military" but never the less they serve the purpose of being "VIP".


    M-8MTV-1S and M-8MTV-1P, are used by the government's "Rossiya" squad, that is, by the President and the ministers. Unlike the PS, they are made on the basis of an MTV military helicopter


    I remembered another strange variant that I have only seen a copy of:
    apparently a Mi-8MTV-5-1 without a rear ramp and with a folding passenger ladder and round windows, seen at Kubinka.
    Most likely it was a sample copy made in Kazan and that no more have been manufactured when the Ministry of Defense chose the variant Mi-8AMTSh-1 manufactured in Ulan Ude
    The amount of modifications is to make anyone dizzy

    Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News - Page 15 16615810

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Aug 08, 2021 12:55 pm

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    Post  Russian_Patriot_ Thu Aug 12, 2021 7:16 am

    The Russian army will have two more Mi-38 helicopters by the end of 2022.

    Russian Helicopters holding company (part of the corporation Rostec) will hand over two more state-of-the-art Mi-38 helicopters to the Defense Ministry by the end of 2022 , the company's CEO Andrey Boginsky told to RIA Novosti. 

    The contract for the supply of two more Mi-38s was signed at the Army 2020 forum.

    "Today, the first two Mi-38s are in trial operation in the army. By the end of 2022, we will transfer two more helicopters" – Boginsky said. 

    According to him, judging by the reviews of the military, the operation of the first vehicles is going well.

    Source: 

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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Aug 12, 2021 10:20 am


    Hopefully actual helicopters, not VIP ones?
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    Post  flamming_python Thu Aug 12, 2021 11:07 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Hopefully actual helicopters, not VIP ones?

    They need to make sure it's what they need first

    Even if it turns out that it isn't, the VIP role is a way to justify the purchases and the Mi-38 should have no problem fulfilling that role

    So actually it's a smart move to start from those

    And then more niches will start to open up
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    Post  AMCXXL Thu Aug 12, 2021 2:16 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Hopefully actual helicopters, not VIP ones?

    They need to make sure it's what they need first

    Even if it turns out that it isn't, the VIP role is a way to justify the purchases and the Mi-38 should have no problem fulfilling that role

    So actually it's a smart move to start from those

    And then more niches will start to open up


    No, these contracts of only two units are usually devices for the state or VKS tests, an "installation lot"

    The Ministry of Defense has already received two copies of Mi-38T that are being tested in the Moscow Helicopter Factory "Mil and Kamov"
    Surely the two of the variant Mi-38-2 will also be for the same purpose.

    The Mi-38 is still in the testing phase, this always takes several years, therefore small purchases of pre-production copies are made with the final finish to be able to test the finished product

    Once this happens, then it is time to sign a long-term "supply contract" for a large quantity for mass production.

    As is the structure of the VKS now, I think that at least 4 Mi-38T squadrons are needed, one squadron for each of the 4 VKS Helicopter Brigades and another Mi-38-2 squadron for the 8th. Special Purpose Division, not necessarily for VIP use, it can be for the transport of military personnel (with seats for passengers)

    Only this 5 squadrons would be 100 Mi-38 machines, probably more if other units in the VKS or even the Navy, also need the Mi-38
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    Post  GarryB Fri Aug 13, 2021 4:06 am

    Would love to see them modify the Mi-38 for a Mi-14 type role...

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:02 am

    GarryB wrote:Would love to see them modify the Mi-38 for a Mi-14 type role...

    There was lots of talk on bringing back a modified Mi-14 back into service? Unfortunately it doesn't look likely though?
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    Post  flamming_python Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:10 am

    Mir wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Would love to see them modify the Mi-38 for a Mi-14 type role...

    There was lots of talk on bringing back a modified Mi-14 back into service? Unfortunately it doesn't look likely though?

    If they decide they need a modern Mi-14 then I suspect that's exactly what they'll do

    The Mi-38 has a range advantage and they're already being ordered by EMERCOM for search & rescue in the Arctic Ocean.
    Not a big shift to an amphibious ASW role from that.
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    Post  Mir Fri Aug 13, 2021 11:00 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    Mir wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Would love to see them modify the Mi-38 for a Mi-14 type role...

    There was lots of talk on bringing back a modified Mi-14 back into service? Unfortunately it doesn't look likely though?

    If they decide they need a modern Mi-14 then I suspect that's exactly what they'll do

    The Mi-38 has a range advantage and they're already being ordered by EMERCOM for search & rescue in the Arctic Ocean.
    Not a big shift to an amphibious ASW role from that.

    That would be quite something yes! Back in the day the Mi-14 appeared to be a bit of an issue for NATO submarines as the US and partners insisted on the withdrawal of these helicopters together with other strategic weapons in the 90's. Just imagine what a Mi-38PL would be capable of doing! Laughing
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    Post  GarryB Fri Aug 20, 2021 1:34 pm

    I always thought a good way to extend endurance would be for the helicopter to land on the water surface and just idle the main rotor rather than expending a lot more energy and fuel hovering.

    Sitting on the water it could lower variable depth sonar sensors to look under the different layers.

    Perhaps some extendible outrigger like floats to prevent it from tipping over... maybe on the tips of wings perhaps to offload the main rotor in forward flight...
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    Post  Russian_Patriot_ Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:22 am

    Since August 20, due to the Il-112V crash, flights of the Mi-38, using a similar TV7-117V engine, have been stopped
    Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News - Page 15 4c88gq10


    Last edited by Russian_Patriot_ on Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:40 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  GarryB Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:29 am

    Better safe than sorry... though I am not sure the Mi38 would use an auto feathering system very often, sometimes these things can be more than one thing at a time which makes them tricky to diagnose.
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    Post  Russian_Patriot_ Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:28 am

    Sergei Shoigu gets acquainted with the upgraded Mi-8MTV-5M helicopter. 

    A delegation of the Russian Defense Ministry headed by Sergei Shoigu visited the Kazan Helicopter Plant of the Russian Helicopters Holding Company during a visit to the Republic of Tatarstan. The Russian Defense Minister was shown an upgraded version of the Mi-8MTV-5-1 helicopter, which is in service with the Russian army. The updated Mi-8MTV-5M meets the modern requirements of army aviation.

    Sergei Shoigu visited an assembly plant, a paint shop, and an assembly shop. Alexey Belykh, Managing Director of KVZ, reported to the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation on the completion of development work on improving the helicopter. The design documentation has already been approved for mass production.

    The Mi-8MTV-5M helicopter has completed import substitution, installed additional equipment that expands its functionality, and replaced its avionics with more modern ones: a multifunctional display, a digital autopilot, a state-of-the-art communications system, and a domestic-made TA-14 auxiliary power unit have been installed.

    "Further modernization plans for the Mi-8/17 series of helicopters for military transport versions delivered to various customers include improving flight performance through the use of a new carrier system. The vehicles will be equipped with Mi-38 helicopter blades and an X-shaped tail rotor. At the design stage of the blades for the Mi-38, they were tested on the "eight". Thus, this technical solution has already been tested and will be implemented in the series" – Alexey Belykh, Managing Director of the Kazan Helicopter Plant, said. 

    The Mi-8MTV-5M is capable of performing night flights in a group using night vision goggles, and its navigation and weather monitoring systems are integrated into a single information field. The state-of-the-art communications system is unified with all helicopters supplied in the interests of the Russian Defense Ministry, and provides the function of data exchange between helicopters. The Mi-8MTV-5-1 helicopters in service can be modified to look like the upgraded Mi-8MTV-5M.

    Sergei Shoigu was also informed about the progress of production of one of the two Mi-38 helicopters for the Russian Defense Ministry – the contract for the supply of the aircraft was signed during the Army 2020 International Military-Technical Forum in Patriot Park near Moscow.

    In addition, Sergey Shoigu was also presented with Tatarstan participants of the contest "Personnel for the digital industry. Creating complete design solutions in the "Cyberdrome" competition mode. One of the teams represented KVZ at the competition, the second – Innopolis University. The KVZ team, consisting of students of targeted training at KNRTU-KAI, took first place in the semi-final of the competition, which was held on the sidelines of the MAKS-2021 International Aviation and Space Salon in July. The final of the contest will be held in October in Gelendzhik.

    Source: 
    Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News - Page 15 8s39re10

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    Post  George1 Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:18 am

    In turn, the Department of Information and Mass Communications of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, in a message about Sergei Shoigu's visit to the Kazan Helicopter Plant, also indicated that “since 2019, the enterprise has been serially producing Mi-38 helicopters. During this time, two Mi-38Ts were handed over to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, one Mi-38 with a high-comfort cabin was delivered to a civilian customer. By 2024, it is planned to deliver 24 Mi-38 helicopters in various modifications, including for a foreign customer. "

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4384723.html


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    Post  AMCXXL Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:18 pm

    It is very likely that this is a prototype of the updated Mi-8MTV-5M, which was recently shown in Kubinka at the Army-2021 forum

    This is a modernized version with elements similar to the Ulan-Ude Mi-8AMTSh-VN (X-shaped tail rotor, main rotor blades with beveled tips, Aerosila APU TA14-130-08 instead of AI-9V).

    This machine is not new, it is a modernization of the white No. 22 which was based on Ostrov's 15th BrAA since 2013.
    As you can see, it does not carry the sensor above the cabin like the Mi-8MTV-5, but below it. However, it can be clearly differentiated from the Mi-8AMTSh by the wider sliding door.

    Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News - Page 15 16321310


    George1 wrote:. By 2024, it is planned to deliver 24 Mi-38 helicopters in various modifications, including for a foreign customer. "

    This seems to indicate that there are several contracts for the Mi-38

    In addition to a contract for 2 Mi-38 in VIP version for Russia there is another one for a foreign client of the same version, probably for another 2 devices

    So the remaining 20 could well be for a squadron of one of the VKS Helicopter Brigades, which are still incomplete.
    The most complete is Ostrov's 15th BrAA which opened in 2013 and already has three squadrons of Mi-28 / Mi-35, Ka-52, Mi-8MTV-5 in addition to a detachment of Mi-26, therefore it needs a fourth squadron to complete brigade size

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    Post  Russian_Patriot_ Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:07 am

    Zapad-2021
    Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News - Page 15 R8ntko10

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    Post  Russian_Patriot_ Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:34 am

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