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    Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News

    GarryB
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    Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News - Page 16 Empty Re: Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News

    Post  GarryB Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:58 am

    Pretty sure all their twin engined helicopters have this...

    They obviously can't continue flying at max weights but such engine failures don't happen very early in a mission so normally a bit of fuel has been burned off.

    Usually there is a period of time it can operate at the high power rating to compensate for the loss of one engine or loss of oil pressure etc etc.

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    George1
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    Post  George1 Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:21 pm

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    Post  PhSt Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:49 pm


    Russia to launch mass production of world’s heaviest transport helicopter in 2022

    MOSCOW, November 22. /TASS/. The permission for the mass production of the world’s heaviest Mi-26T2V military transport helicopter will be obtained by the yearend, CEO of the Russian Helicopters rotorcraft manufacturer (part of the state tech corporation Rostec) Andrei Boginsky told TASS on Monday.

    "We are now at the final stage of getting the O1 designation for the helicopter’s baseline configuration and there are a few flights remaining to wrap up the Mi-26T2V’s flight tests. We expect to perform these flights by the end of the year and get the O1 code. We have already delivered the first batches of the Mi-26T2V helicopter to the Russian troops," the chief executive said.

    The upgraded Mi-26T2V helicopter performed its debut flight in August 2018. Russian Deputy Defense Minister Alexei Krivoruchko said in March 2019 that the ministry would buy 10 of the helicopters.

    The Mi-26T2V is a heavy large-fuselage military transport helicopter with a lifting capacity of 20 tonnes. The rotorcraft is outfitted with an integrated NPK90-2V avionics suite that provides for its operation day and night to fly in an automatic control mode, reach a preset point and perform approach maneuvers. The defensive aids suite shields the Mi-26T2V from air defense missile systems. The upgraded helicopter has a crew of five.

    https://tass.com/defense/1364685

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    lancelot
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    Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News - Page 16 Empty Re: Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News

    Post  lancelot Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:34 am

    Eh, what about the engine? The Mi-26 uses an engine manufactured in Ukraine.
    I thought this was supposed to be an upgrade of existing airframes rather than new aircraft.
    There is the Russo-Chinese heavy helicopter program which will have a PD-12V engine derived from PD-14 engine core but that engine isn't available yet.
    PhSt
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    Post  PhSt Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:45 am

    lancelot wrote:Eh, what about the engine? The Mi-26 uses an engine manufactured in Ukraine.
    I thought this was supposed to be an upgrade of existing airframes rather than new aircraft.
    There is the Russo-Chinese heavy helicopter program which will have a PD-12V engine derived from PD-14 engine core but that engine isn't available yet.

    I am only able to find an article from 2016 that talks about the new engines that's being developed for the new Mi-26T



    New Engines For Russia’s Heavy-lift Helicopter

    Russian engine company Aviadvigatel is developing a turboshaft that can power the Mil Mi-26T, based on the PD-14 turbofan that is now being flown an Il-76 testbed. Current versions of the heavy-lift helicopter use twin D136 engines that were developed by Ivchenko Progress and are in production at Motor-Sich, both companies based in Zaporozhie, Ukraine.

    Russian Helicopters deputy general manager Andrei Shibitov told AIN that Russian government customers would prefer the re-engined version. A prototype is expected to fly in 2017, with production examples to follow in 2018 and 2019. At the recent HeliRussia exhibition in Moscow, deputy trade and industry minister Andrei Boginsky said that work on the new engine is proceeding quickly, with his ministry providing extra funding.

    The engine is designated PD-12V and can develop 14,500 shp. However, it will be flat-rated to 11,500 shp to match the Mi-26’s existing gearbox. This power can be maintained to the altitude of 2,000 meters or at ambient temperature of +40 degree Celsius at sea level, thus improving the helicopter’s hot-and-high performance. According to Aviadvigatel, the PD-12 is 100 kg heavier than the D-136, but burns 18 percent less fuel. The developer says that a full-scale mockup has already been made so that designers can do a test-fit on Mi-26 airframe. The PD-12 is also offered on the Sino-Russian Advanced Heavy Lift (AHL) rotorcraft now in development.

    Preliminary studies done by United Engine Corporation (of which Aviadvigatel is a member) revealed that the refurbishment would improve the Mi-26’s payload-range and reduce operational costs through higher technical parameters and “on-condition” maintenance. The baseline PD-12V will provide a basis for the development of a family of engines.

    Shibitov confirmed that Algeria remains the only customer for the Mi-26T2 version, having ordered 14. This means that an April 2016 order from the Russian defense ministry for two Mi-26s was for the older Mi-26T variant, adding to 17 such rotorcraft that the service accepted new from the Rostvertol plant in 2011-2014. China is expecting a fourth Mi-26T this year, to supplement three already operational

    https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2016-06-02/new-engines-russias-heavy-lift-helicopter

    Since 5 years have passed, I wonder what is the progress made on these new engines?

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    George1
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    Post  George1 Mon Dec 06, 2021 12:55 pm

    The special forces received fire support helicopters. The first Mi-8AMTSh-VN entered the Russian army, a source in the military-industrial complex said.

    https://en.topwar.ru/189860-vertolety-ognevoj-podderzhki-mi-8amtsh-vn-povysjat-boevuju-jeffektivnost-podrazdelenij-specnaznachenija.html

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:42 am

    Looks like it still uses the D-136....

    Website:

    https://www.rhc.aero/en/catalog/mi-26t

    Direct link to Mi-26 catalogue (english).


    (right click and choose save as...)
    https://www.rhc.aero/uploads/Documents/Mi-26T2_eng.pdf
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    Post  Krepost Fri Dec 31, 2021 1:53 am

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    Post  George1 Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:52 am

    Another Mi-38 helicopter

    January 15th, 11:27 pm
    On the web resource russianplanes.net , a recently taken first photo of a newly built Mi-38 helicopter with tail number "384" at the airfield of JSC "National Helicopter Center named after M.L. Mil and N.I. Kamov" (JSC "NCV Mil and Kamov" as part of JSC "Helicopters of Russia") in Tomilino (Panki) near Moscow. It is reported that this helicopter with serial number 26014 was completed at Kazan Helicopter Plant JSC (KVZ) at the beginning of 2021 and flew from there to Tomilino in March 2021, but the first picture of the helicopter appeared only now.

    Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News - Page 16 29919710
    Built, presumably, for the Federal Security Service (FSO) of the Russian Federation, the Mi-38T helicopter (tail number "384", serial number 26014) at the airfield of JSC "National Center for Helicopter Engineering named after M.L. Mil and N.I. Kamov” (part of Russian Helicopters JSC) in Tomilino (Moscow region), January 2022 (c) Oleg Podkladov / russianplanes.net ( link )



    The helicopter, according to unofficial reports , is intended for the Federal Security Service (FSO) of the Russian Federation, is based on the military version of the Mi-38T, and, apparently, is still subject to retrofitting.

    This helicopter, according to known data, became the only copy of the Mi-38 built by Kazan Helicopter Plant in 2021. He, as one can judge, is actually the seventh serial Mi-38 helicopter built.

    Recall that earlier in 2019-2020 Kazan Helicopter Plant delivered three Mi-38T helicopters for the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation (serial numbers 26001, 26002 and 26003, tail numbers “71”, “72” and “73”, respectively, - all three aircraft, according to known data, used for testing), at the end of 2020, he handed over two helicoptersMi-38-4, built for the Federal State Budgetary Institution "Special Flight Detachment (SLO) "Russia" of the Administration of the President of the Russian Federation (serial numbers 26004 and 26006, registration numbers RA-14340 and RA-14343), and in February 2020 passed the first and So far, the only civilian serial Mi-38-2 helicopter (with a superior cabin) with registration number RA-14341 (serial number 26005), operated by Russian Helicopter Systems (RVS).

    Earlier, four prototypes of the Mi-38 helicopter were also built (from OP-1 to OP-4).

    In August 2020, during the Army-2020 International Military-Technical Forum, a contract was signedfor the supply to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation of two Mi-38 helicopters for VIP transportation in the “salon” configuration, the delivery of the first of them is expected in 2022. Also in 2021, it was reported that "until 2024, it is planned to supply 24 Mi-38 helicopters in various modifications, including for a foreign customer."

    https://bmpd.livejournal.com/4467634.html

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    PhSt
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    Post  PhSt Sun Jan 16, 2022 9:55 pm


    It seems introduction of the Mi-38 is still going slow, I was hoping to see a couple of fleets of this aircraft from 2020 onwards
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    Post  GarryB Mon Jan 17, 2022 4:14 am

    Main problem was engines and that was mainly because it started out life as being a multinational helicopter with Eurocopter and Sextant and Pratt and Whitney engines... so it has taken a while to fully Russianise it... but of course the Hips are still selling rather well... so there is no perceived rush regarding its introduction...

    Of course the new more powerful engines it uses were made by Klimov that was also rushing to replace production of existing and new engines for the majority of the 10-12 ton weight class helicopters that were previously made by Motor Sich in the Ukraine.

    The VK-2500 to replace all those previous engines and of course this new engine for the Mi-38 took time but AFAIK they are on top of things now.

    With a 7 ton external payload this helicopter should be quite useful, but they could probably do with another helicopter in the 12-15 ton payload class to fit between the Mi-38 and Mi-26...

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    Mir
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    Post  Mir Mon Jan 17, 2022 6:44 am

    PhSt wrote:
    It seems introduction of the Mi-38 is still going slow, I was hoping to see a couple of fleets of this aircraft from 2020 onwards

    Interesting bit is that during Soviet times the military was not very eager to introduce the Mi-8 as a replacement for the Mi-4's.
    Turns out the Mi-8 became the most successful helicopter in history!

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    d_taddei2
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    Post  d_taddei2 Mon Jan 17, 2022 8:41 am

    As garryb stated while mi-8/17 are still selling well and they will most likely still be selling them well into 2030's if not beyond, when something is so successful u are in no rush to replace. But now they have mi-38 engine issue sorted they will slowly replace the older mi-8 in service, and I wonder if they have sort that engine issue if they have sorted the Ka-60 engine issue as well.

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    George1
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    Post  George1 Wed Feb 09, 2022 10:53 am

    Mi-8 in bombing role

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    Post  medo Wed Feb 09, 2022 11:49 am

    George1 wrote:Mi-8 in bombing role


    Interesting video. On one side they made some tactical bombing exercise, but on the other side they made real bomb drops on big ice plates, to prevent damaging bridges down the river.
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    Post  Mir Wed Feb 09, 2022 12:11 pm

    Nice picture of the Mi-8 bomber in action Smile

    Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News - Page 16 0_76f210

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    Post  d_taddei2 Wed Feb 09, 2022 3:24 pm

    George1 wrote:Mi-8 in bombing role


    There looks to be two sensors on each wing tip. I wonder if this is something similar to SVP-24 that's been fitted on to Su-24 on the gefest upgrade. This allows dumb bombs to be dropped with fairly decent accuracy. It could be useful if the helicopter was flying high and dropping dumb bombs on enemy positions/ buildings, or to damage roads/bridges etc..providing you were facing an enemy force with no AD systems. This system might have useful for Syrian government forces and would have been better than tossing make shift bombs after lighting a fuse out of the back of mi-8 helicopters.

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    Post  Hole Wed Feb 09, 2022 7:56 pm

    They are part of the self-defence system. L-370-2 UV missile approach sensors.

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    George1
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    Post  George1 Thu Feb 10, 2022 12:31 am

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    Post  flamming_python Thu Feb 10, 2022 1:56 am

    d_taddei2 wrote:
    George1 wrote:Mi-8 in bombing role


    There looks to be two sensors on each wing tip. I wonder if this is something similar to SVP-24 that's been fitted on to Su-24 on the gefest upgrade. This allows dumb bombs to be dropped with fairly decent accuracy. It could be useful if the helicopter was flying high and dropping dumb bombs on enemy positions/ buildings, or to damage roads/bridges etc..providing you were facing an enemy force with no AD systems. This system might have useful for Syrian government forces and would have been better than tossing make shift bombs after lighting a fuse out of the back of mi-8 helicopters.

    Not sure there's a need for something that sophisticated, we're talking about low altitudes and speeds. Certainly some sort of targeting and calculation system for dumb bombs is necessary though, along with wind sensors and so on. Anyone know what the latest Mi-8 modifications have in this regard?
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    Post  d_taddei2 Thu Feb 10, 2022 8:52 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    d_taddei2 wrote:
    George1 wrote:Mi-8 in bombing role


    There looks to be two sensors on each wing tip. I wonder if this is something similar to SVP-24 that's been fitted on to Su-24 on the gefest upgrade. This allows dumb bombs to be dropped with fairly decent accuracy. It could be useful if the helicopter was flying high and dropping dumb bombs on enemy positions/ buildings, or to damage roads/bridges etc..providing you were facing an enemy force with no AD systems. This system might have useful for Syrian government forces and would have been better than tossing make shift bombs after lighting a fuse out of the back of mi-8 helicopters.

    Not sure there's a need for something that sophisticated, we're talking about low altitudes and speeds. Certainly some sort of targeting and calculation system for dumb bombs is necessary though, along with wind sensors and so on. Anyone know what the latest Mi-8 modifications have in this regard?

    The SVP 24 isn't that high tech it's fairly good and cheap and articles in past have mentioned that the system can be put on any type of aircraft including helicopters. No point in designing a new system when u have a tried and tested fit for purpose system already. It would allow more accuracy, and at safer distance/altitude. Myself and garryb in past talked about such a system on An-12 or IL-76 and turning them into a flying bomb truck, flying high, and dropping loads of dumb bombs out the back of the cargo bay doors on enemy positions. This would be a bolt on system as and when needed, and u just roll on bombs in a pallet type system. This would give an airforce the ability to have a cheap bombing aircraft with aircraft it already has without the need to purchase bombers. Most air forces have cargo planes of some sort.
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    Post  Mir Thu Feb 10, 2022 9:26 am

    The il-76 can carry a couple of bombs and so does some An-26 versions and the AN-72P, but why bother they have some Tu-134sh's and there might still be a few Tu-134UBK's around that can do a much better job if they wanted to. One way to get some realistic training!
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    Post  d_taddei2 Thu Feb 10, 2022 9:35 am

    Mir wrote:The il-76 can carry a couple of bombs and so does some An-26 versions and the AN-72P, but why bother they have some Tu-134sh's and there might still be a few Tu-134UBK's around that can do a much better job if they wanted to. One way to get some realistic training!

    Yes the IL-76 can carry four bombs on the wings. But this would allow dropping far more bombs, Tu-134 was an airliner not a cargo plane. Yes a few were converted to carry a few bombs for training. But this system would most likely not be used for Russia but more for export where countries have cargo planes buy no bombers, and being a bolt on bolt off system gives the ability to use it as and when needed and the cargo plane still retains cargo role. Of course if Russian troops were deployed abroad the system could be useful then, rather than sending a bomber. But my suggestion is for export market.
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    Post  GarryB Fri Feb 11, 2022 2:57 am


    The SVP 24 isn't that high tech it's fairly good and cheap and articles in past have mentioned that the system can be put on any type of aircraft including helicopters.

    It is cheap, but it is also quite sophisticated and clever... and is connected to the navigation and bombing systems on the aircraft to improve precision from an aircraft operating at altitude and at speed... it essentially predicts precisely the ballistic path of very different types of weapons to reduce the spread of impacts on the ground to the closest it could be to the aim point.

    For a helicopter they generally don't fly at very high altitude and their forward speed can be reduced to make bombing rather accurate without a computerised calculation system.

    No point in designing a new system when u have a tried and tested fit for purpose system already. It would allow more accuracy, and at safer distance/altitude.

    Most helicopters have an operational ceiling limit with a payload of bombs that normally isn't a lot higher than 2-3km up, in fact most would be limited to that sort of height in terms of their hover ceiling, which as you would appreciate would make them easy targets for MANPADS, but rather difficult targets for small arms.

    Myself and garryb in past talked about such a system on An-12 or IL-76 and turning them into a flying bomb truck, flying high, and dropping loads of dumb bombs out the back of the cargo bay doors on enemy positions. This would be a bolt on system as and when needed, and u just roll on bombs in a pallet type system.

    Any system would need to have a system controlled bomb release capacity for specific bomb types as each different type would have a different ballistic performance and if you didn't compensate with different release times then they could go anywhere.

    Tu-134 was an airliner not a cargo plane.

    The version he is describing is a training aircraft with the nose mounted radar of the Tu-160 fitted to it that was used as a cheap training aircraft for White Swan crews.

    In that sense it would be interesting as a cheap precision bomber, but I was thinking the idea was a more adhoc arrangement where you had modular systems for the transport plane... in this case the Il-476, which could have fuel tanks in the rear for inflight refuelling roles, or those tanks and pipes could be removed and replaced with a water tankage system for fire fighting, or an internal frame installed for carrying troops in large numbers in several layers/levels, or in this case an automated frame holding bombs, which could extend out the back of the aircraft in flight and release bombs out the rear of the aircraft.

    The idea is that you can use standard transport planes for a variety of roles... troop transport, fire fighting, inflight refuelling, cargo transport obviously, but also high altitude bombing... either lots of bombs on one target or long endurance with fewer bombs and extra fuel to allow it to stay on station for very long periods... perhaps with two engines shut down.

    The difference of course is that it will be flying at safe altitudes from MANPADS and ground fire and it can hover over the target area to simplify the bomb impact trajectories so it needs a Gefest & T system for accuracy.

    Even just for domestic use if it is cheap enough and accurate enough sometimes it might be cheaper to send a transport plane than a bomber.

    As an example in Syria a cargo plane arrives in Syria with cargo but if it needs to go back to Russia to collect more cargo it might be going empty... in which case you could mount some bombing equipment and take out a few targets on its way to Russia... or it might be going to Syria to bring cargo back so it could carry bombs and as it flys over Syria any target presents itself can be bombed, and if not it has just delivered 20-30 tons of bombs for the airfield...
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    Post  Hole Thu Feb 17, 2022 8:06 pm

    Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News - Page 16 000196
    Mi-8/17, Μi-38, Mi-26: News - Page 16 000288
    Mi-26 used for refuelling in the field

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