Russian Naval Aviation: News

Regarding quick Su-33 upgrade with Gefest, there are few thinks which bother me. Gefest didn't promote any Flanker upgrade and they didn't upgrade any Flanker before or test their equipment with Flanker as they did with other jets like Su-24, Tu-22 and Su-25. Than suddenly they made quick upgrade of 8 Su-33 in Zhukovsky with very little time to test equipment and to train pilots to use it in combat missions. I would dare to say, that they upgrade Su-33 with components of upgrade program, which is well tested and operational and there is only one beside Su-27SM program in KNAAPO. It is Su-30KN program from Irkut of cheap multirole Su-30 fighter. It is operational program and RuAF have 4 Su-30KN in Lipetsk training center. Also Irkut deliver this upgrade program to Belarussian Aviation repair plant in Baranovitchi, where they modernize ex-Indian Su-30K for Angola as well as they modernize their own and Kazakhstan's Su-27 fighters. In this upgrade old radar screen is replaced by 1 MFD and looks like Su-33 similarly got 1 MFD replacing old radar screen. This program also upgrade radar with better capabilities and with additional air to ground and air to sea modes without replacing the whole radar.

It is interesting, that they were hiding this upgraded part of cockpit all the time in Zhukovsky and even now they didn't yet show this MFD. This upgrade program would make sense for Su-33 as pilots could train well before planes were modernized by Su-30KN fighters in Lipetsk, it is oprational, so no loose of time to integrate new equipment in the jet, so no problem for pilots to go with newly upgraded Su-33 in two months in combat missions in Syria. After all, this program give Su-33 fire control cpmplex the same capabilities to bomb with unguided bombs as Gefest upgrades do. Maybe Gefest upgrade was just a fog as components could come from Belarus as I doubt Irkut produce them.

Web site of Belarussian Su-27 modernization.

http://www.558arp.by/en/products-and-services-eng/services-eng/modernization-aviation-materiel-eng/su-27-30-aircraft-eng

MOSCOW, November 22 - RIA Novosti. Naval aviation Naval Fleet of Russia will receive six Su-30sm before the end of the year, the two anti-IL-38, as well as 10 helicopters of various modifications, said Tuesday the commander of the Russian Navy Admiral Vladimir Korolev.

In St. Petersburg on Tuesday held an enlarged meeting of the Military Council of the Navy, where the results of combat training and preparation of the Russian Navy were announced in 2016. The meeting, which was chaired by the Commander, attended by the commanders of the Northern, Pacific, Black Sea, the Baltic Fleet and the Caspian Flotilla. In the work of the Military Council was also attended by Commander of the Western Military District Colonel-General Andrei Kartapolov.

"In the course of equipping naval aviation in its composition has received a considerable amount of modern equipment and weapons before the year six Su-30sm arrive at the naval aviation weapons, two IL-38 as well as 10 helicopters of various modifications.", - Said the Commander.

In total, according to the contract "Aviation Complex. Ilyushin" must pass the Defense Ministry 20 modernized anti-aircraft Il-38N to 2020.

Production of the Su-30sm conducted at the Irkutsk aircraft plant. In accordance with the contract signed with the Ministry of Defense, until 2018 VCS RF to be transmitted 88 fighter and the Navy Naval Aviation - 28.

Su-30sm is a super-maneuverable multi-role fighters for gaining dominance in the air generation "4 ++". He combined the functions and fighter and attack aircraft and bombers, equipped with radar with a phased antenna array, engines with thrust vector control and canards.

Any ideas why the Su-33s r currently being flown not from Adm.K?
http://www.janes.com/article/65775/russian-carrier-jets-flying-from-syria-not-kuznetsov

Pl. someone explain how to make a hyperlink here.

Tsavo Lion wrote:Any ideas why the Su-33s r currently being flown not from Adm.K?
http://www.janes.com/article/65775/russian-carrier-jets-flying-from-syria-not-kuznetsov

Pl. someone explain how to make a hyperlink here.

Arresting gear on Kuz is atm not operational after the incident with MiG-29K. So aircraft cant land back on it after they take off.

If it takes them that long to fix it, that's bad news! I wonder if they could rig a barricade in time to catch that doomed MiG-29, & if they r going to salvage it.

Tsavo Lion wrote:If it takes them that long to fix it, that's bad news! I wonder if they could rig a barricade in time to catch that doomed MiG-29, & if they r going to salvage it.

Well, seems something that requires spares or more serious maintenance broke, we do not know what still.

They do not have barricades on Kuz from what i am aware.

Salvage? Doubtful, not worth it. Maybe they place charge on it tho to destroy it.

It is for emergency landings.

The Liaoning has a barricade & it was tested with J-15, but it's unbelievable that Adm. K, her sister ship, doesn't have 1!
If the arresting gear is broken, it would be such a recovery even if the jet itself has no problems. I've read that it's possible that not all pilots had enough training prior to their 1st deployment with MiG-29K- NITKA in Crimea was still being rebuilt/upgraded & the 1 in Yeisk was completed only about a year ago. http://www.janes.com/article/34228/russian-naval-pilot-training-facility-nears-completion
http://www.vz.ru/politics/2016/12/5/666349.print.html
Perhaps the pilot didn't have the option to cut 1 engine off to save fuel & buy time to recover with 1 remaining, either due to lack of training or plane's/carrier operational limitations at the time?
http://gordonua.com/publications/admiral-kuznecov-zachem-rossiya-ispolzuet-avianosec-v-sirii-162053.html

Development of UAV helicopter type for Naval Aviation of the Russian Navy

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2303856.html

George1 wrote:Development of UAV helicopter type for Naval Aviation of the Russian Navy

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2303856.html

Between this and this:

https://www.rt.com/news/342999-russian-transformer-drone-video/
http://defence-blog.com/news/in-russia-are-developing-a-new-uav-frigate.html

Russia is getting closer to what should be the future of the maritime patrol and reconnaissance. If they make the last shipborne, they almost have it.

Both are far more interesting than the heavy land based subsonic aircrafts. If this philosphy goes forward (not necessary these models of uav) in some years, I'm not sure if the new proposed Be-200 and the Be-40/42 will have room to work in the old mold for maritime patrol.

Interesting video about carrier aircraft operations from today. At the first seconds we could see a cockpit of Su-33, where it seems to be a new MFD display similar to the one in the front cockpit of MiG-31BM or in Su-30KN.

After all, maybe I'm not that far away from the truth and Su-33 could be actually modernized by Su-30KN program. This program also include modernization of the radar with increased capabilities and to make it multifunctional without replacing it whole, but just components inside, nut we do not know if RuNAVY went that deep with modernization, but would be helpful in Syria campaign.

medo wrote:TbNFc83j6_k

Interesting video about carrier aircraft operations from today. At the first seconds we could see a cockpit of Su-33, where it seems to be a new MFD display similar to the one in the front cockpit of MiG-31BM or in Su-30KN.

After all, maybe I'm not that far away from the truth and Su-33 could be actually modernized by Su-30KN program. This program also include modernization of the radar with increased capabilities and to make it multifunctional without replacing it whole, but just components inside, nut we do not know if RuNAVY went that deep with modernization, but would be helpful in Syria campaign.

So, are they flying again? It would mean that the cable SNAFU was patched for now.


Also, I noticed the amount of space those AA missiles take up. During modernization they could easily stuff that area with same number of ASh and AA missiles via UKSK and Redut launchers and probably have room to spare.

It would mean that those Granit launchers can be ripped out from the front without any loss of offensive firepower. And it would free up room and weight naturally.

I find this MFD in SU-33 cockpit quite strange considering that Gefest SVP-24 doesn't use MFD. SVP-24 use simple LCD or TV screen, which show original radar picture like in Su-24 and a map from satellite navigation with targets designated in it to use satellite navigation for precise bomb attacks. This type of MFD is very specific for Su-30KN modernization program from Irkut and is used in Su-30KN jets as well as in all Su-27 fighters modernized in Baranovichi in Belarus. MFD is useful, when it shows many different modes, air to air radar picture, air to ground radar picture with ground mapping, air to sea radar picture, TV picture from other source, navigation picture, etc and this could mean that basic fire control computer of Su-33 is upgraded. Now we could also expect, that L-150 Pastel RWR is working in full capabilities capable to program and launch KH-31P anti-radar missiles.

Su-30KN program is capable to use KH-31A anti-ship missile, Kh-31P anti-radar missile, KH-59M and KH-29T TV guided missiles and KAB-500Kr TV guided bombs and R-77 AAMs. It is intendent to be used against air, land and sea targets and quite proper for Su-33 modernization as it is cheaper than Su-27SM program from KNAAPO and have similar capabilities.

Useing of well tested and operational modernization package is the only reasonable answer on the question, how they could modernize planes, tested them and train pilots to use them in combat in so short period of time. Although we could see a part of this MFD in Su-33 just for few seconds, it is still good indicator about modernization package. Other question is, how deep is this modernization. If it is full Su-30KN package, than Su-33 is no less capable as new multirole Chinese J-15.

Ship-based UAVs to be designed for Russian Navy

Naval aviation’s aircraft will be modernized and replaced with newer models in the coming years

MOSCOW, January 2. /TASS/. Ship-based unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) will be designed for the needs of the Russian Navy’s naval aviation, the Russian naval aviation chief, Maj. Gen. Igor Kozhin, said Monday.

"One of prospective directions for specialists of leading design bureaus is research and design aimed at creating an unmanned ship-based aircraft," Kozhin said, without giving any details or timeframe of the research.

He said the naval aviation’s aircraft will be modernized and replaced with newer models in the coming years.

"In particular, the carrier-based fighter aviation units will get MiG-29K and MiG-29KUB fighter jets in 2017-2020. The fleet of naval aviation combat helicopters will also be seriously renewed. The Ka-29 helicopters currently in service will be replaced by the newest Ka-52K reconnaissance and combat helicopter," Kozhin said.

Both the MiG-29K (single seat) and MiG-29KUB (double seat) aircraft are the "4++" generation multi-role fighters intended for air defense missions. They can destroy targets at sea and ground with high-precision guided weapons day and night, in any weather conditions.

The Ka-52K Katran attack helicopter is a ship-based version of the baseline Ka-52, initially designed for basing on French-built Mistral-class helicopter carriers.


More:
http://tass.com/defense/923664

George1 wrote:The Ka-29 helicopters currently in service will be replaced by the newest Ka-52K reconnaissance and combat helicopter

So they're cutting down on naval transport/assault helos. How unwise

KiloGolf wrote:

George1 wrote:The Ka-29 helicopters currently in service will be replaced by the newest Ka-52K reconnaissance and combat helicopter

So they're cutting down on naval transport/assault helos. How unwise

Probably talking long term. There were 6 Ka-29's just upgraded at the manufacturing plant plus at least 2 others at local airfield maintenance plants. Up to that apparently only 4 were still operational.

I think Russia needs a new naval transport helicopter, sth like EH101 Merlin

George1 wrote:I think Russia needs a new naval transport helicopter, sth like EH101 Merlin

Maybe the Ka-60 if and when it shows up.

I think he is a bit confused as the Ka-29 is a troop transport with some support capabilities with cannon/HMG and rocket capability, whereas the Ka-52 is a recon attack helo with no troop transport capacity...

I rather suspect that if they do develop a helicopter carrier that those landing ships the French had could probably deliver troops faster and with their own armoured vehicle...

The problem with a transport helo is that it drops off troops and then leaves to collect more troops leaving the troops with no constant support or protection... the special high speed landing ships on the Mistral on the other hand can deliver the troops and an armoured vehicle that offers both fire support and protection if needed that remains with the troops...

George1 wrote:Ship-based UAVs to be designed for Russian Navy

Naval aviation’s aircraft will be modernized and replaced with newer models in the coming years

MOSCOW, January 2. /TASS/. Ship-based unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) will be designed for the needs of the Russian Navy’s naval aviation, the Russian naval aviation chief, Maj. Gen. Igor Kozhin, said Monday.

"One of prospective directions for specialists of leading design bureaus is research and design aimed at creating an unmanned ship-based aircraft," Kozhin said, without giving any details or timeframe of the research.

He said the naval aviation’s aircraft will be modernized and replaced with newer models in the coming years.

"In particular, the carrier-based fighter aviation units will get MiG-29K and MiG-29KUB fighter jets in 2017-2020. The fleet of naval aviation combat helicopters will also be seriously renewed. The Ka-29 helicopters currently in service will be replaced by the newest Ka-52K reconnaissance and combat helicopter," Kozhin said.

Both the MiG-29K (single seat) and MiG-29KUB (double seat) aircraft are the "4++" generation multi-role fighters intended for air defense missions. They can destroy targets at sea and ground with high-precision guided weapons day and night, in any weather conditions.

The Ka-52K Katran attack helicopter is a ship-based version of the baseline Ka-52, initially designed for basing on French-built Mistral-class helicopter carriers.

Two good news, and expected.

For me shipborne UAVs of different ranges will be the most likely option to succeed for the role of maritime patrol. As commented before, long range shipborne UAVs plus some fast strategic bombers with anti-submarine capabilities are a right combination to replace the current fleet of maritime patrol aircrafts (Be-12, Il-38 and Tu-95/142). Note that the last is a strategic bomber adapted.

Also to see the Ka-50/52 entering in naval roles is positive. I tend to think that this helicopter will also be selected for anti-submarine role, increasing the standardization of the fleet. The Ka-29 and the Ka-52K may not be exactly of the same role, but it is possible to do a replacement adapting also the roles better to the real needs.

Russia’s naval aviation receives 8 upgraded Ka-27M deck-based helicopters

More:
http://tass.com/defense/923825

For me shipborne UAVs of different ranges will be the most likely option to succeed for the role of maritime patrol. As commented before, long range shipborne UAVs plus some fast strategic bombers with anti-submarine capabilities are a right combination to replace the current fleet of maritime patrol aircrafts (Be-12, Il-38 and Tu-95/142). Note that the last is a strategic bomber adapted.

I appreciate what you are suggesting, and to a degree I agree... unmanned platforms have a significant future in terms of long range patrol and surveillance.

The issue I have is a ship based system will need to be rather small and short ranged even though it can move with the ship it is based upon.

To replace an MPA you will need a rather larger aircraft with bigger sensors and heavy equipment... something you wont get in a ship based system.

Of course that does not mean it can't be done... some large land based patrol aircraft of modular design that can perform each of the roles of manned MPAs would allow a reduction in size by not making them capable of doing everything.

Land basing means larger platforms with bigger sensors and the option for rearming or loading mission specific weapons fairly readily.

The ship based UAVs could link up with the long range UAVs and share data and cooperate in various situations... in fact... imagine a situation where sensor data is not good enough... you would not risk a manned MPA as they are too expensive and risk capture of crew, and a large land based UAV would compromise technology and also not be cheap but having a small ship near the contested waters that launches a smaller more disposable UAV with sensors and weapons that could innocently get lost and stray into the wrong area to either collect data or be shot down... if you know what I mean... sharing data right up the destruction with any long range UAVs in international air space nearby.... sort of like the way the US military used its recon aircraft built from modified bombers to test and probe Soviet defences... record procedures and frequencies and to look for force levels etc.

Also to see the Ka-50/52 entering in naval roles is positive. I tend to think that this helicopter will also be selected for anti-submarine role, increasing the standardization of the fleet. The Ka-29 and the Ka-52K may not be exactly of the same role, but it is possible to do a replacement adapting also the roles better to the real needs.

The different roles require very specific and very different equipment, sensors and weapons. For the Ka-52 to be used as an anti submarine helo it would need a lot of extra equipment like a dipping sonar. Its radar would be excellent for detecting things like snorkels and periscopes already, and it would already be able to carry anti sub torpedoes and depth charges including guided ones.

Personally I think a better solution would be a modular helo like a scaled up Ka-226T where the engines and rotors and front cabin are standard but a range of rear pods could be attached or adapted depending upon the role.

That way you could have a transport module for a boarding team to be carried or an anti sub module with dipping sonar and sonabouys and even a MAD detector.

For rescue you can have onboard medical equipment and a hoist.

For attack you can have something that looks like the Ka-52.

You could even use the base model as a flying crane that could fly out and lock on to surfaces mini subs to fly them back to the mother ship or to recover used sonobouys or divers...

Russia’s Northern Fleet to receive six Ka-27M helicopters this year

More:
http://tass.com/politics/923860

eehnie wrote:

George1 wrote:Ship-based UAVs to be designed for Russian Navy

Naval aviation’s aircraft will be modernized and replaced with newer models in the coming years

MOSCOW, January 2. /TASS/. Ship-based unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) will be designed for the needs of the Russian Navy’s naval aviation, the Russian naval aviation chief, Maj. Gen. Igor Kozhin, said Monday.

"One of prospective directions for specialists of leading design bureaus is research and design aimed at creating an unmanned ship-based aircraft," Kozhin said, without giving any details or timeframe of the research.

He said the naval aviation’s aircraft will be modernized and replaced with newer models in the coming years.

"In particular, the carrier-based fighter aviation units will get MiG-29K and MiG-29KUB fighter jets in 2017-2020. The fleet of naval aviation combat helicopters will also be seriously renewed. The Ka-29 helicopters currently in service will be replaced by the newest Ka-52K reconnaissance and combat helicopter," Kozhin said.

Both the MiG-29K (single seat) and MiG-29KUB (double seat) aircraft are the "4++" generation multi-role fighters intended for air defense missions. They can destroy targets at sea and ground with high-precision guided weapons day and night, in any weather conditions.

The Ka-52K Katran attack helicopter is a ship-based version of the baseline Ka-52, initially designed for basing on French-built Mistral-class helicopter carriers.

Two good news, and expected.

For me shipborne UAVs of different ranges will be the most likely option to succeed for the role of maritime patrol. As commented before, long range shipborne UAVs plus some fast strategic bombers with anti-submarine capabilities are a right combination to replace the current fleet of maritime patrol aircrafts (Be-12, Il-38 and Tu-95/142). Note that the last is a strategic bomber adapted.

Also to see the Ka-50/52 entering in naval roles is positive. I tend to think that this helicopter will also be selected for anti-submarine role, increasing the standardization of the fleet. The Ka-29 and the Ka-52K may not be exactly of the same role, but it is possible to do a replacement adapting also the roles better to the real needs.

Strategic bombers have nothing to do in ASW role unless built from the scratch for that specific role. ASW requires remarkably heavy and specific array of sensors and equipment which if fitted to "normal" strategic bomber would badly affect its "normal" role capabilities. ASW aircraft these days are based either on militarised civilian liners or purpose built turboprops (better option).

Ka-52K will have some ASW capabilities but it cant and will never be main ASW platform in the Navy.

Going through the thread and reading on Russia's ASW/MPA fleet, it seems they're only left with a dozen of Tu-142s and another dozen (or two?) of Il-38s. How/when exactly did the drop the ball? Huge capability gap in a field where they can't afford to be complacent. Countries like Japan do better than that. And Russia's territorial waters/EEZ are not exactly small, world's 3rd longest coastline and all that jazz