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    ASW Aircrafts for Russian Navy:

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    George1
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    ASW Aircrafts for Russian Navy:

    Post  George1 on Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:43 pm

    The naval air force of the most important fleets, the Northern and Pacific fleets, operate long range Tu-142 Bear-F anti-submarine warfare aircraft and Il-38 May medium range ASW aircraft. Black sea fleet operates Be-12 amphibious planes.

    Do we have any information for new ASW aircrafts? (Be A-40 for example)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-142

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilyushin_Il-38

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beriev_Be-12


    Last edited by George1 on Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:42 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: ASW Aircrafts for Russian Navy:

    Post  TR1 on Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:51 pm

    MOD is ordering up to 8 Be-200, for a role that is yet to be determined. Could have something to do with his. A-40 interest has been said to be resurgent in past several years.

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    Re: ASW Aircrafts for Russian Navy:

    Post  George1 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:51 am

    TR1 wrote:MOD is ordering up to 8 Be-200, for a role that is yet to be determined. Could have something to do with his. A-40 interest has been said to be resurgent in past several years.

    Be-200 have been ordered for EMERCOM not for Russian Navy

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    Re: ASW Aircrafts for Russian Navy:

    Post  TR1 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 3:27 am

    Not just EMERCON.

    Serdykov talked about the MODs intention to order 8 Be-200, for an unspecified purpose.

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    Re: ASW Aircrafts for Russian Navy:

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:33 am

    They have been discussing it for some time now, with talk of reengined A-42s (the bigger Albatross version the Be-200 is based on that was originally intended to replace the Mail).

    The thing is that boat hulled jets are rather more expensive than conventional medium airliner aircraft for the maritime role.

    It really comes down to analysis of the role and experience regarding amphibious aircraft.

    For EMERCOM it was a no brainer as for fire fighting duties being able to skim a lake or riverway to pick up water rapidly and then get back to the fire area at jet speeds is valuable and worth the cost.

    For maritime patrol aircraft however you'd need to look at all the instants that the aircraft actually had to land on the water and why...

    At the end of the day water landings would only be likely on the Black Sea, the Caspian Sea and the Baltic Sea, conditions in the Northern Sea and Pacific Seas would likely not be suitable much of the time.

    The A-42 has 4 engines... two engines as used in older Il-76 aircraft, and two booster engines used for takeoff. The reengining plans included the new PS-90A engines that were more powerful and meant the booster engines would not have been needed. In addition the extra power and fuel efficiency extended range in all flight profiles.

    The real problem comes down to was the water landing capacity valuable enough to warrant the extra cost.

    I have heard the navy is buying a few Be-200s as well, though likely only for Caspian Sea and Black Sea use IMHO.

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    Re: ASW Aircrafts for Russian Navy:

    Post  George1 on Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:41 am

    Perhaps MOD should consider a maritime patrol version of IL-114 as a replacement to medium ASW IL-38

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    Re: ASW Aircrafts for Russian Navy:

    Post  GarryB on Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:58 am

    I have heard of a Il-140M which is based on the Il-114, but it is not clear how developed it is... it could just be a designation waiting for funding...

    They could certainly do with an Il-38 replacement soon.

    There is a bit of uncertainty at the moment... for instance recently it was announced that most of the land based navy aircraft would be transfered to the Air Force... it didn't include carrier based aircraft but did include shore based Flankers and Backfires and Fencers.

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    Beriev A-40 Albatros

    Post  George1 on Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:31 pm

    The Beriev A-40 Albatros (also Be-42, NATO reporting name: Mermaid) was a jet-engined amphibious flying boat designed by the Beriev Aircraft Company for the anti-submarine warfare role. Intended as a replacement for the Beriev Be-12 amphibian and the land-based Ilyushin Il-38,[2] the project was suspended after only one prototype had been manufactured, with second 70% completed,[3] due to the breakup of the Soviet Union.[4] Recent reports suggest the project has been revived and that an order has been placed by the Russian Navy.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beriev_A-40

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    Re: ASW Aircrafts for Russian Navy:

    Post  George1 on Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:14 am

    In Rosoboronexport export catalogue they mention Il-114 maritime patrol aircraft.

    http://www.rusarm.ru/cataloque/airf0rces_cataloque.html

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    Re: ASW Aircrafts for Russian Navy:

    Post  George1 on Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:07 pm

    Beriev is curently developing two versions of airplanes based on Be-200, a AEWAC possibly named Be-250 (with a side radar being developed by Vega), and a second one named Be-300 as Search and Rescue aircraft and an anti-submarive version called Be-300 MP, which will be equipped with the Kasatka system, being developed by JSC Radar MMS. It's a combination of a radar and a firing control system. This system is going to be installed also on the amphibious version of Be-200 MP.

    http://www.redstar.gr/Foto_red/Eng/Aircraft/Be_300MP.html

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    Re: ASW Aircrafts for Russian Navy:

    Post  George1 on Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:03 am

    http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=8476

    Tupolev offers to Russian defense ministry naval patrol aircraft based on civil airliner Tu-214, said Alexander Bobryshev, president of the company to Interfax-AVN on Dec 31.

    Perspective aircraft will be powered by two engines PS-90A with advanced parameters. Tu-214 is a long-endurance and long-range aircraft, added Mr. Bobryshev.

    In 90-ies Tupolev Design Bureau developed naval patrol aircraft Tu-204P on the basis of Tu-214. Ministry of Defense endorsed that project in 1998; naval pilots tested Tu-214 in the same year. In 2000, however, the project was frozen due to underfinancing.

    Perspective aircraft will perform tasks at long and middle ranges; it will change Il-38 and Tu-142 which are presently in service at naval aviation.

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    Re: ASW Aircrafts for Russian Navy:

    Post  GarryB on Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:12 pm

    I always thought that a good idea for amphibious aircraft would be to save on sonobouys (which are very high tech and very very expensive) and land on the water surface when viable and use a variable depth dipping sonar.

    As such I think an ideal if slow maritime patrol aircraft could be a very large airship in conjunction with aircraft like the Be-200 or Tu-214.

    To outrun an airship a sub would need to operate at top speed, which would make it relatively straight forward to detect... and the faster jet aircraft could run it down and kill it.

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    Re: ASW Aircrafts for Russian Navy:

    Post  GarryB on Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:37 am

    The FSB is testing ekranoplans which would be another option for ASW and MPA as they can fly efficiently at very low altitudes which is very important for MPA to fly at medium and low altitudes.

    Russia wants seaplanes in border control
    2012-01-25
    Russian border guards are testing the Ivolga seaplane (Photo: Boatdesign.net)

    Russian border guards are testing the Ivolga seaplane (Photo: Boatdesign.net)


    FSB’s border guard service plans to use seaplanes in monitoring of Russia’s border rivers and Arctic waters.

    A center for construction and testing of so-called ekranoplans and education of personnel is planned to be built in Petrozavodsk, Karelia.

    The centeris planned to be established at the shipyard Avangard, Izvestia writes. The ekranoplans are suited for border monitoring of rivers, lakes and even in Arctic waters and along the Northern Sea Route, analysts believe.

    Petrozavodsk in Karelia has not been chosen accidentally as location for production of the seaplanes. From the Lake Onega you also have access to waters and waterways both to the south and the north, and the temperate climate allows for testing of seaplanes all throughout the year. The region also has a large personnel reserve, with many people being laid off after the Armed Forces’ reorganization.

    The Federal Security Service (FSB) has since November 2011 been testing a seaplane of the Ivolga-type in the border guard service in Karelia, according to Izvestia.

    source: http://www.barentsobserver.com/russia-wants-seaplanes-in-border-control.5012743-116321.html

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    Re: ASW Aircrafts for Russian Navy:

    Post  GarryB on Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:06 am

    Navy interested too...

    Airfoil Ships to Revive in Karelia

    Airfoil Ships to Revive in Karelia 26.01.2012
    Text: RIA Novosti
    Photo: Airfoil ship Volga-2. airwar.ru
    It is planned to launch production of airfoil ships – fast-speed dynamic air cushion vessels – in Petrozavodsk (Karelia, Russia); the need for such ships was confirmed by Federal Security Service (FSB), writes Izvestiya on Jan 26 referring to a source in Russian Government.

    Vice premier Dmitry Rogozin who is responsible for defense industry development in Russian government told reporters that Russia could resume production of airfoil vessels if defense ministry substantiated the need for such ships.

    "FSB Border Guard Research Center has already confirmed the demand for airfoil vessels. Those ships are needed for patrolling of sea and river frontiers and detention of violators", writes Izvestiya.

    The production would be opened in currently bankrupted Avangard shipyard in Petrozavodsk.

    "Temperate continental climate in that region allows testing of airfoil ships all year round. Besides, the Lake Onega has access to southern and northern seas. Another fact in favor of Karelia is staff reserve of Petrozavodsk; there are crowds of unemployed shipbuilders and retired naval officers", Yury Varakosov, director of group company Ekranoplan told Izvestiya.

    As for him, the airfoil shipbuilding center would employ over 5,000 workers.

    source: http://www.rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=14134

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    Northern Fleet Gets Modernized Anti-Submarine Plane

    Post  Russian Patriot on Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:13 pm

    Northern Fleet Gets Modernized Anti-Submarine Plane

    RIA Novosti

    12:25 05/03/2012

    MOSCOW, March 5 (RIA Novosti) - The Russian Navy's Northern Fleet has accepted into service a modernized Ilyushin Il-38N anti-submarine warfare aircraft, which will also carry out electronic intelligence (ELINT) duties, the Northern Fleet's press spokesman Captain Vadim Serga said on Monday.

    "A modernized Il-38N was accepted into service at a Northern Fleet air base" he said. "It has a wider range of combat capabilities. These aircraft can be used for mapping the magnetic and gravitational fields of the Northern Ice sea, and also for conducting scientific oceanographic research and underwater and air reconnaissance," he added.

    He did not specify if the aircraft was the first of its type to be delivered to the Northern Fleet.

    The majority of the fleet's Il-38s will be modernized to the new standard, according to a source who spoke to RIA Novosti. The Il-38N is fitted with the Novella sensor system, capable of detecting targets within a 320 km radius of the aircraft as well as radar observation of underwater, surface and airborne targets.

    The Novella system includes a digital computer manned by two operators. The system also has a new high resolution thermal imaging system, a magnetic anomaly detection system, an optical detection system (including laser, TV and thermal channels), gravitational anomaly detector and other equipment.

    http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/russia/2012/russia-120305-rianovosti07.htm

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    Re: ASW Aircrafts for Russian Navy:

    Post  GarryB on Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:05 am

    A definite improvement, but what they really need is a brand new aircraft to take over from the old Il-38s.

    Perhaps a less stealthy version of the PAK DA that combines long flight range and endurance with a modest weapon payload and sophisticated sensors...

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    Re: ASW Aircrafts for Russian Navy:

    Post  George1 on Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:52 pm

    http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20120711/174548155.html

    Russia, Italy to Jointly Develop Patrol Aircraft

    Russia and Italy are to jointly build and modernize maritime patrol aircraft, after signing a cooperation agreement at the Farnborough Air Show in Britain.

    The deal was signed by Alexander Mikheyev, deputy chief of Russian arms corporation Rosoboronexport and the heads of Finmeccanica’s Selex, Galileo, and Selex Elsag companies.

    The new plane will be developed on the basis of Russian-made unspecified aircraft, but fitted with Italian-made navigation, communications and IFF systems and weapons, including lightweight torpedoes from WASS, a Finmeccanica group company.

    “This is an agreement on the promotion of products for third countries. Italian equipment will be installed on Russian-made patrol and special-purpose aircraft,” Mikheyev said.

    “It took three years to prepare the agreement. We hope that this product will be adapted to enterprises affiliated with the Rostekhnologii state corporation,” he said, adding that the document also envisions future upgrades of aircraft earlier supplied to foreign customers.

    It may take up to two years to decide which aircraft could be used as a base platform for the new patrol plane, Mikheyev said.

    Finmeccanica hopes to strike a deal to modernize Russia’s Beriev Be-200 amphibian aircraft, Selex Galileo’s Executive Director Fabrizio Giuliani said.

    “If we get the chance, it would be a unique aircraft. We are discussing modern navigation equipment in the plane,” he said.

    The Italians are carrying out market research to study demand for the aircraft, he said.

    “We hope that in ten years this sector will be one of the fastest developing in aviation. Today it’s hard to gauge the market for these aircraft, but I think there are great possibilities,” he added.

    Mikheyev said most of the aircraft would remain in its original specification. “We are just talking about navigation systems,” he said.

    The Be-200 is the world’s only production jet-powered amphibian aircraft. The main variant is a firefighting air-tanker aircraft, which can also be adapted for passenger or cargo transport, or search and rescue operations.

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    Re: ASW Aircrafts for Russian Navy:

    Post  flamming_python on Wed Jul 11, 2012 9:14 pm

    George1 wrote:http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20120711/174548155.html

    Russia, Italy to Jointly Develop Patrol Aircraft

    Russia and Italy are to jointly build and modernize maritime patrol aircraft, after signing a cooperation agreement at the Farnborough Air Show in Britain.

    The deal was signed by Alexander Mikheyev, deputy chief of Russian arms corporation Rosoboronexport and the heads of Finmeccanica’s Selex, Galileo, and Selex Elsag companies.

    The new plane will be developed on the basis of Russian-made unspecified aircraft, but fitted with Italian-made navigation, communications and IFF systems and weapons, including lightweight torpedoes from WASS, a Finmeccanica group company.

    “This is an agreement on the promotion of products for third countries. Italian equipment will be installed on Russian-made patrol and special-purpose aircraft,” Mikheyev said.

    “It took three years to prepare the agreement. We hope that this product will be adapted to enterprises affiliated with the Rostekhnologii state corporation,” he said, adding that the document also envisions future upgrades of aircraft earlier supplied to foreign customers.

    It may take up to two years to decide which aircraft could be used as a base platform for the new patrol plane, Mikheyev said.

    Finmeccanica hopes to strike a deal to modernize Russia’s Beriev Be-200 amphibian aircraft, Selex Galileo’s Executive Director Fabrizio Giuliani said.

    “If we get the chance, it would be a unique aircraft. We are discussing modern navigation equipment in the plane,” he said.

    The Italians are carrying out market research to study demand for the aircraft, he said.

    “We hope that in ten years this sector will be one of the fastest developing in aviation. Today it’s hard to gauge the market for these aircraft, but I think there are great possibilities,” he added.

    Mikheyev said most of the aircraft would remain in its original specification. “We are just talking about navigation systems,” he said.

    The Be-200 is the world’s only production jet-powered amphibian aircraft. The main variant is a firefighting air-tanker aircraft, which can also be adapted for passenger or cargo transport, or search and rescue operations.

    Hopefully this will be a new life for the An-42.

    So currently, aircraft production/design deals with the Ukraine, India, and now Britain and Italy? Not to mention the Superjet, and the Tu-204/214 production in Iran, if the deal is still active. Things are looking on the up.

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    Re: ASW Aircrafts for Russian Navy:

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:22 am


    Hopefully this will be a new life for the An-42.

    Small correction... that would be the A-42 as it would be a Beriev type rather than an Antonov.

    The situation with the Beriev is that for fire fighting the fact that it is a flying boat is an asset, but for a patrol aircraft if it almost never needs to land on the water surface being an amphibian greatly increases operational costs and maintainence costs for a feature that is not widely used.

    For fire fighting roles it is useful but outside of coastal use as with the Baltic, Black Sea and Caspian Sea use a conventional aircraft would be cheaper to operate and use.


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    Re: ASW Aircrafts for Russian Navy:

    Post  flamming_python on Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:37 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    Hopefully this will be a new life for the An-42.

    Small correction... that would be the A-42 as it would be a Beriev type rather than an Antonov.

    Right you are; my bad.

    The situation with the Beriev is that for fire fighting the fact that it is a flying boat is an asset, but for a patrol aircraft if it almost never needs to land on the water surface being an amphibian greatly increases operational costs and maintainence costs for a feature that is not widely used.

    For fire fighting roles it is useful but outside of coastal use as with the Baltic, Black Sea and Caspian Sea use a conventional aircraft would be cheaper to operate and use.

    I mostly had the An-42PE in mind; a variant with the jet engines replaced by propeller engines (turboprops), so that should keep the cost down a tad. It's also meant for Search & Rescue; and that's certainly something where the amphibious capability might come in very handy; unless you want to circle around, throw down a hook and then hoist the people several hundred feet in the air James Bond style Smile

    In terms of pure maritime patrol and a naval torpedo/missile carrier; then a conventional aircraft may well be the way to go. I'm just concerned about the fate of the unique A-42PE project that's all.

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    Re: ASW Aircrafts for Russian Navy:

    Post  GarryB on Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:01 am

    I agree, though I think replacing the original four engines with two will improve performance and reduce maintainence.

    The old aircraft had D-30 engines similar to those used in the old Il-76s, but they also had booster engines below those engines for extra power for takeoffs. Fitting new PS-90 engines like those to be fitted to the new Il-476 aircraft should add enough engine power to make the booster engines no longer needed, while reducing fuel burn and maintaining jet speeds.

    The propfan model is interesting too but has more risk associated with it... but if it turns out powerful enough to replace the internal booster engines then it will be worth it too.

    I would like to see them use them even just for the Caspian and Black Sea fleets and of course the Baltic.

    With a range of 6,000km and a flight speed of 800km/h I would love to see these big planes fly commercial people flights to the Pacific Islands, or the med etc etc.


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    Re: ASW Aircrafts for Russian Navy:

    Post  George1 on Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:55 pm

    Three Dead, One Injured in Russian Navy Be-12 Plane Crash

    http://en.ria.ru/mlitary_news/20121012/176586040.html

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    Re: ASW Aircrafts for Russian Navy:

    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:47 am

    RIP to the victims. Sad


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    Re: ASW Aircrafts for Russian Navy:

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:05 pm

    George1 wrote:http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20120711/174548155.html

    Russia, Italy to Jointly Develop Patrol Aircraft

    Russia and Italy are to jointly build and modernize maritime patrol aircraft, after signing a cooperation agreement at the Farnborough Air Show in Britain.

    The deal was signed by Alexander Mikheyev, deputy chief of Russian arms corporation Rosoboronexport and the heads of Finmeccanica’s Selex, Galileo, and Selex Elsag companies.

    The new plane will be developed on the basis of Russian-made unspecified aircraft, but fitted with Italian-made navigation, communications and IFF systems and weapons, including lightweight torpedoes from WASS, a Finmeccanica group company.

    “This is an agreement on the promotion of products for third countries. Italian equipment will be installed on Russian-made patrol and special-purpose aircraft,” Mikheyev said.

    “It took three years to prepare the agreement. We hope that this product will be adapted to enterprises affiliated with the Rostekhnologii state corporation,” he said, adding that the document also envisions future upgrades of aircraft earlier supplied to foreign customers.

    It may take up to two years to decide which aircraft could be used as a base platform for the new patrol plane, Mikheyev said.

    Finmeccanica hopes to strike a deal to modernize Russia’s Beriev Be-200 amphibian aircraft, Selex Galileo’s Executive Director Fabrizio Giuliani said.

    “If we get the chance, it would be a unique aircraft. We are discussing modern navigation equipment in the plane,” he said.

    The Italians are carrying out market research to study demand for the aircraft, he said.

    “We hope that in ten years this sector will be one of the fastest developing in aviation. Today it’s hard to gauge the market for these aircraft, but I think there are great possibilities,” he added.

    Mikheyev said most of the aircraft would remain in its original specification. “We are just talking about navigation systems,” he said.

    The Be-200 is the world’s only production jet-powered amphibian aircraft. The main variant is a firefighting air-tanker aircraft, which can also be adapted for passenger or cargo transport, or search and rescue operations.

    WTH one of the most mature and dedicated NATO nations to jointly develop an advanced naval weapon with the "evil empire"?

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    Re: ASW Aircrafts for Russian Navy:

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sat Oct 13, 2012 12:08 pm

    GarryB wrote:RIP to the victims. Sad

    Unfortunately if this news spreads more widely in the internet various bozos will start the "look how russian planes and pilots suck our western planes can whoop their asses in a pinch" BS

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