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    Russian Naval Aviation: News

    Giulio
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    Post  Giulio on Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:37 pm

    Afaik, STOL and VTOL aircrafts have many limitations. On a ship, the vertical landing could be more attractive than the short takeoff, for saving space, but an airplane that has to carry around the weight of the vertical thrust is too limited in performances All Navy aircrafts of the world can operate also with an engine out, the thrust is enough. The problem is the space for the onboard landing and the space for maintenance, storage, weapons, jet fuel and spare parts. So are the ship's dimensions who are important, not the VTOL performances of the aircrafts. Without big onboard hangars and stores you can not have enough aircrafts onboard and you can not make them to do a sufficient number of missions in the time's unit. Above all you need to launch, recover and resupply a sufficient number of aircrafts, otherwise the whole thing is not convenient, so you need a very big ship, not V/STOL aircrafts. It may be not pleasant, but also the Kuznetsov seems to me a bit 'small.
    A different issue is the close air support for landing troops.
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Oct 20, 2016 10:56 am

    BUT what about a Russian plane. VTOL or perhaps STOL that wouldn't need a runway. It would have a level of stealth.
    It could be carried on heli carriers or perhaps even large destroyers. It wouldn't need huge aircraft carriers.

    IN other words, it could be used instead of choppers but would be far superior.

    The old Yak VTOL was considered better than its rivals but development ended with the cessation of the Soviet Union.

    VSTOL aircraft are fragile and expensive and not high performance aircraft.

    It is not just vectored thrust engines... they need puffer fans to blow air out their noses and tails and wingtips to allow for controlability in the hover.

    Remember a conventional fixed wing aircraft is controlled in flight by deflecting the slipstream of air flowing over the wing and tail surfaces... in a hover there is no air flowing over the wings and tail so all lift comes from the engines and high pressure air blown from the engines to the wing tips, nose and tail... all adding weight and points of vulnerability to battle damage or simple malfunction.

    Mix it with some cutting edge drones and hypersonic missiles and you have the punch of an aircraft carrier battle group. WITHOUT even needing an aircraft carrier.

    The thing is that the choice of building a 20K ton helicopter carrier to carry VSTOL aircraft is not actually that much cheaper than building a decent 50-60K ton carrier carrying aircraft you have already developed for your ground based air fleet.

    The Su-33 and MiG-29KR are vastly superior to anything the Yak-141 could have evolved into and the naval PAK FA will make the difference even greater.

    They claimed the Harrier could take off from anywhere but in reality it had to operate from special PSP (pierced steel planking) surfaces that have been cleared of debris. The idea of taking off from a shopping mall carpark was just bullshit... one high fibre McDonalds burger packet and that plane crashes and burns...

    The MiG and Su-27 get around the issue of debris on the ground with intake covers that prevent material entering the intakes on takeoff and landing. The US has regular flight line marches where personel line up and pick up any small bits and pieces that might damage an aircraft engine... in war time who has time for that crap?

    To take out a US airfield just spread a few tons of old bits of non magnetic metal like washers and bolts and shit... no need for explosives or mines...

    Another aspect that is not often considered is that most VSTOL aircraft have thrust vectored engine nozzles often mounted at the side of the fuselage making for an excellent IR target from most angles including the front...

    A Harrier would be extremely vulnerable to even old model MANPADS... the engine nozzle is an ideal target for such a weapon and because of the position it is visible from almost any angle...
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    Post  kopyo-21 on Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:16 pm

    medo wrote:Russian Naval Aviation: News - Page 11 13900310

    For now we know, that two borts b/n 88 and 71 were modernized. The Picture of pilot in Su-33 b/n 79 with a display on his knee is not from modernized Su-33. We still do not know, what changes will this SVP-24 modernization bring inside Su-33 cockpit. I hope they will replace old radar screen with new LCD MFD or even better to made its cockpit similar to Su-27SM.

    That is ЕКП-НТ tablet that belongs to A-737 GPS/Glonass navigator that Su-33s got in small upgrade by early of 2000s. Its function is to show the sattellite moving map. This one looks very similar to the one in between of OR4-TM TV LED and VM-10 LCD in the photo below.

    Russian Naval Aviation: News - Page 11 0_1281e1_74eaf6f0_orig
    medo
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    Post  medo on Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:04 am

    Now, we have some indications, that modernized Su-33 got a new display instead of old radar screen, but for now we do not know, how this new MFD looks like.

    Before:
    Russian Naval Aviation: News - Page 11 Su-33-10

    After modernization:
    Russian Naval Aviation: News - Page 11 Su-33-11

    Maybe it is like this one in Su-30KN:
    Russian Naval Aviation: News - Page 11 Valuev10
    medo
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    Post  medo on Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:42 am

    Regarding quick Su-33 upgrade with Gefest, there are few thinks which bother me. Gefest didn't promote any Flanker upgrade and they didn't upgrade any Flanker before or test their equipment with Flanker as they did with other jets like Su-24, Tu-22 and Su-25. Than suddenly they made quick upgrade of 8 Su-33 in Zhukovsky with very little time to test equipment and to train pilots to use it in combat missions. I would dare to say, that they upgrade Su-33 with components of upgrade program, which is well tested and operational and there is only one beside Su-27SM program in KNAAPO. It is Su-30KN program from Irkut of cheap multirole Su-30 fighter. It is operational program and RuAF have 4 Su-30KN in Lipetsk training center. Also Irkut deliver this upgrade program to Belarussian Aviation repair plant in Baranovitchi, where they modernize ex-Indian Su-30K for Angola as well as they modernize their own and Kazakhstan's Su-27 fighters. In this upgrade old radar screen is replaced by 1 MFD and looks like Su-33 similarly got 1 MFD replacing old radar screen. This program also upgrade radar with better capabilities and with additional air to ground and air to sea modes without replacing the whole radar.

    It is interesting, that they were hiding this upgraded part of cockpit all the time in Zhukovsky and even now they didn't yet show this MFD. This upgrade program would make sense for Su-33 as pilots could train well before planes were modernized by Su-30KN fighters in Lipetsk, it is oprational, so no loose of time to integrate new equipment in the jet, so no problem for pilots to go with newly upgraded Su-33 in two months in combat missions in Syria. After all, this program give Su-33 fire control cpmplex the same capabilities to bomb with unguided bombs as Gefest upgrades do. Maybe Gefest upgrade was just a fog as components could come from Belarus as I doubt Irkut produce them.

    Web site of Belarussian Su-27 modernization.

    http://www.558arp.by/en/products-and-services-eng/services-eng/modernization-aviation-materiel-eng/su-27-30-aircraft-eng
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    Post  franco on Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:47 pm

    MOSCOW, November 22 - RIA Novosti. Naval aviation Naval Fleet of Russia will receive six Su-30sm before the end of the year, the two anti-IL-38, as well as 10 helicopters of various modifications, said Tuesday the commander of the Russian Navy Admiral Vladimir Korolev.

    In St. Petersburg on Tuesday held an enlarged meeting of the Military Council of the Navy, where the results of combat training and preparation of the Russian Navy were announced in 2016. The meeting, which was chaired by the Commander, attended by the commanders of the Northern, Pacific, Black Sea, the Baltic Fleet and the Caspian Flotilla. In the work of the Military Council was also attended by Commander of the Western Military District Colonel-General Andrei Kartapolov.

    "In the course of equipping naval aviation in its composition has received a considerable amount of modern equipment and weapons before the year six Su-30sm arrive at the naval aviation weapons, two IL-38 as well as 10 helicopters of various modifications.", - Said the Commander.

    In total, according to the contract "Aviation Complex. Ilyushin" must pass the Defense Ministry 20 modernized anti-aircraft Il-38N to 2020.

    Production of the Su-30sm conducted at the Irkutsk aircraft plant. In accordance with the contract signed with the Ministry of Defense, until 2018 VCS RF to be transmitted 88 fighter and the Navy Naval Aviation - 28.

    Su-30sm is a super-maneuverable multi-role fighters for gaining dominance in the air generation "4 ++". He combined the functions and fighter and attack aircraft and bombers, equipped with radar with a phased antenna array, engines with thrust vector control and canards.
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    Post  franco on Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:46 pm

    Navy to receive first modernized Ka-27M's in December;
    https://en.ria.ru/military/201611291047980098-aviation-russia-helicopter/
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:39 pm

    Yes 8 says here

    Read more: https://sputniknews.com/military/201611291047980098-aviation-russia-helicopter/
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    Russian Naval Aviation: News - Page 11 Empty Any ideas why the Su-33s r currently being flown not from Adm.K?

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Dec 01, 2016 7:15 pm

    Any ideas why the Su-33s r currently being flown not from Adm.K?
    http://www.janes.com/article/65775/russian-carrier-jets-flying-from-syria-not-kuznetsov

    Pl. someone explain how to make a hyperlink here.
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    Post  Guest on Thu Dec 01, 2016 7:30 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:Any ideas why the Su-33s r currently being flown not from Adm.K?
    http://www.janes.com/article/65775/russian-carrier-jets-flying-from-syria-not-kuznetsov

    Pl. someone explain how to make a hyperlink here.

    Arresting gear on Kuz is atm not operational after the incident with MiG-29K. So aircraft cant land back on it after they take off.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:17 pm

    If it takes them that long to fix it, that's bad news! I wonder if they could rig a barricade in time to catch that doomed MiG-29, & if they r going to salvage it.
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    Post  Guest on Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:35 pm

    Tsavo Lion wrote:If it takes them that long to fix it, that's bad news! I wonder if they could rig a barricade in time to catch that doomed MiG-29, & if they r going to salvage it.

    Well, seems something that requires spares or more serious maintenance broke, we do not know what still.

    They do not have barricades on Kuz from what i am aware.

    Salvage? Doubtful, not worth it. Maybe they place charge on it tho to destroy it.
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    Post  Giulio on Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:43 pm

    It is for emergency landings.
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    Post  Tsavo Lion on Fri Dec 02, 2016 12:01 am

    The Liaoning has a barricade & it was tested with J-15, but it's unbelievable that Adm. K, her sister ship, doesn't have 1!
    If the arresting gear is broken, it would be such a recovery even if the jet itself has no problems. I've read that it's possible that not all pilots had enough training prior to their 1st deployment with MiG-29K- NITKA in Crimea was still being rebuilt/upgraded & the 1 in Yeisk was completed only about a year ago. http://www.janes.com/article/34228/russian-naval-pilot-training-facility-nears-completion
    http://www.vz.ru/politics/2016/12/5/666349.print.html
    Perhaps the pilot didn't have the option to cut 1 engine off to save fuel & buy time to recover with 1 remaining, either due to lack of training or plane's/carrier operational limitations at the time?
    http://gordonua.com/publications/admiral-kuznecov-zachem-rossiya-ispolzuet-avianosec-v-sirii-162053.html


    Last edited by Tsavo Lion on Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:25 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : add text, links)
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:52 am

    Development of UAV helicopter type for Naval Aviation of the Russian Navy

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2303856.html
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    Post  eehnie on Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:22 am

    George1 wrote:Development of UAV helicopter type for Naval Aviation of the Russian Navy

    http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2303856.html

    Between this and this:

    https://www.rt.com/news/342999-russian-transformer-drone-video/
    http://defence-blog.com/news/in-russia-are-developing-a-new-uav-frigate.html

    Russia is getting closer to what should be the future of the maritime patrol and reconnaissance. If they make the last shipborne, they almost have it.

    Both are far more interesting than the heavy land based subsonic aircrafts. If this philosphy goes forward (not necessary these models of uav) in some years, I'm not sure if the new proposed Be-200 and the Be-40/42 will have room to work in the old mold for maritime patrol.
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    Post  medo on Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:50 pm



    Interesting video about carrier aircraft operations from today. At the first seconds we could see a cockpit of Su-33, where it seems to be a new MFD display similar to the one in the front cockpit of MiG-31BM or in Su-30KN.

    After all, maybe I'm not that far away from the truth and Su-33 could be actually modernized by Su-30KN program. This program also include modernization of the radar with increased capabilities and to make it multifunctional without replacing it whole, but just components inside, nut we do not know if RuNAVY went that deep with modernization, but would be helpful in Syria campaign.
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    Post  PapaDragon on Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:20 pm

    medo wrote:TbNFc83j6_k

    Interesting video about carrier aircraft operations from today. At the first seconds we could see a cockpit of Su-33, where it seems to be a new MFD display similar to the one in the front cockpit of MiG-31BM or in Su-30KN.

    After all, maybe I'm not that far away from the truth and Su-33 could be actually modernized by Su-30KN program. This program also include modernization of the radar with increased capabilities and to make it multifunctional without replacing it whole, but just components inside, nut we do not know if RuNAVY went that deep with modernization, but would be helpful in Syria campaign.


    So, are they flying again? It would mean that the cable SNAFU was patched for now.


    Also, I noticed the amount of space those AA missiles take up. During modernization they could easily stuff that area with same number of ASh and AA missiles via UKSK and Redut launchers and probably have room to spare.

    It would mean that those Granit launchers can be ripped out from the front without any loss of offensive firepower. And it would free up room and weight naturally.
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    Post  medo on Sat Dec 10, 2016 3:59 pm

    I find this MFD in SU-33 cockpit quite strange considering that Gefest SVP-24 doesn't use MFD. SVP-24 use simple LCD or TV screen, which show original radar picture like in Su-24 and a map from satellite navigation with targets designated in it to use satellite navigation for precise bomb attacks. This type of MFD is very specific for Su-30KN modernization program from Irkut and is used in Su-30KN jets as well as in all Su-27 fighters modernized in Baranovichi in Belarus. MFD is useful, when it shows many different modes, air to air radar picture, air to ground radar picture with ground mapping, air to sea radar picture, TV picture from other source, navigation picture, etc and this could mean that basic fire control computer of Su-33 is upgraded. Now we could also expect, that L-150 Pastel RWR is working in full capabilities capable to program and launch KH-31P anti-radar missiles.

    Su-30KN program is capable to use KH-31A anti-ship missile, Kh-31P anti-radar missile, KH-59M and KH-29T TV guided missiles and KAB-500Kr TV guided bombs and R-77 AAMs. It is intendent to be used against air, land and sea targets and quite proper for Su-33 modernization as it is cheaper than Su-27SM program from KNAAPO and have similar capabilities.

    Useing of well tested and operational modernization package is the only reasonable answer on the question, how they could modernize planes, tested them and train pilots to use them in combat in so short period of time. Although we could see a part of this MFD in Su-33 just for few seconds, it is still good indicator about modernization package. Other question is, how deep is this modernization. If it is full Su-30KN package, than Su-33 is no less capable as new multirole Chinese J-15.
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    Post  Austin on Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:00 pm

    Russian Navy receives first upgraded Ka-27M

    Russian Naval Aviation: News - Page 11 1693352_-_main

    The first upgraded Ka-27M 'Helix' anti-submarine warfare was delivered to the Russian Navy by KumAPP in mid-December. Source: Russian Helicopters


    The Kumertau Aircraft Production Enterprise (KumAPP) has handed over the first modernised Ka-72M anti-submarine warfare (ASW) helicopter to the Russian Navy, Russian Helicopters announced on 19 December.

    A first batch of eight Ka-27Ms is set to be delivered to the Russian Ministry of Defence by the end of the year, Vladislav Savelyev, deputy chief executive officer for sales of Russian Helicopters, stated.

    The helicopters will be deployed to air bases attached to Russia's Black Sea and Northern Fleets, and also to the Yeysk naval aviation training centre.

    The Kumertau factory began repairs (in order to extend service life) and upgrades of these eight helicopters to Ka-27M standard at the beginning of 2015. Russia's National Armament Programme provides for the upgrade of 46 helicopters to Ka-27M standard by 2018, the number planned to be kept after 2020. However, only two upgrade contracts have been signed as of yet, for a total of 22 helicopters (eight plus 14).

    The Ka-27M (also designated izdeliye 27D2) upgrade programme was launched in the early 2000s. The helicopter's rotor system, powerplant, and airframe are unchanged while the mission system is completely new. The Ka-27M's mission system includes the Phazotron-NIIR Bumerang (Boomerang) radar command-tactical system, integrated around the helicopter's FHA radar; the new Kema radio sonobuoy system with RGB-16MK buoys; upgraded Ros'-VM dipping sonar; new MMS-27 fixed magnetic anomaly detector; electronic support measures suite; data link; a navigator's tactical display; and a SSP-V-27M satellite system for deck landings.

    The Ka-27M can be armed with all available Russian weapons in the appropriate class, including APR-3 anti-submarine rocket torpedoes.

    The FHA radar alone, without the other elements of the mission system, has been proposed as an upgrade for Russia's Ka-27PS search and rescue helicopters.
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    Post  hoom on Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:24 pm

    This may be a pretty big deal: new AESA radar, ECM, comms, sonobuoys, MAD & dipping sonar combined with new combat system.
    Seems to be the first significant post-Soviet upgrade for the Ka-27s.
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    Post  George1 on Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:01 am

    Russian Navy refurbished Ka-29 helicopters

    December 21, 2016 JSC "Helicopters of Russia" (part of the State Corporation Rostec) reported that the party has completed the shipment of naval transport and combat helicopters Ka-29, which took place at the facilities of repair in Kumertau Aviation Production Enterprise.

    "Helicopters have passed all necessary tests and will soon be made available to the air base of the Pacific Fleet of the Russian Navy. For helicopters Ka-29 were produced works on capital repair of columns rotor motors and gearboxes as well as updated the paint."

    Russian Naval Aviation: News - Page 11 3813048_original

    Comment bmpd. Apparently, we are talking about the transfer to Russian Naval Aviation of six overhauled helicopters Ka-29, for the repair of a contract which was listed in the work plan of JSC "Kumertau Aviation Production Enterprise" (KumAPP) for 2016. The contract value is 435 million rubles. (Thus the price of the repair of the helicopter is 72.5 million rubles).

    This transfer will significantly increase the fleet of existing helicopters Ka-29 in naval aviation of the Russian Navy, as at present, in flying condition in the Russian Navy were only four Ka-29 - two cars bearing the number "38 Yellow" (RF-34194 registration number) and "39 yellow" (registration number RF-34188) are operated in 859th Center of deployment and training of flight crews for Russian Navy aviation in Yeisk and helicopters Ka-29, tail number "23 red" and "75 red" in part of aircraft in Northern fleet (the last two are currently at war patrol aboard the heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser "Admiral of the fleet of the Soviet Union Kuznetsov").

    Total from 1977 to 1988 were built three prototypes and 59 series helicopters Ka-29, seven of which after the collapse of the USSR were ceded to Ukraine (two of them are now in flying condition).
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    Post  George1 on Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:14 pm

    Ship-based UAVs to be designed for Russian Navy

    Naval aviation’s aircraft will be modernized and replaced with newer models in the coming years

    MOSCOW, January 2. /TASS/. Ship-based unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) will be designed for the needs of the Russian Navy’s naval aviation, the Russian naval aviation chief, Maj. Gen. Igor Kozhin, said Monday.

    "One of prospective directions for specialists of leading design bureaus is research and design aimed at creating an unmanned ship-based aircraft," Kozhin said, without giving any details or timeframe of the research.

    He said the naval aviation’s aircraft will be modernized and replaced with newer models in the coming years.

    "In particular, the carrier-based fighter aviation units will get MiG-29K and MiG-29KUB fighter jets in 2017-2020. The fleet of naval aviation combat helicopters will also be seriously renewed. The Ka-29 helicopters currently in service will be replaced by the newest Ka-52K reconnaissance and combat helicopter," Kozhin said.

    Both the MiG-29K (single seat) and MiG-29KUB (double seat) aircraft are the "4++" generation multi-role fighters intended for air defense missions. They can destroy targets at sea and ground with high-precision guided weapons day and night, in any weather conditions.

    The Ka-52K Katran attack helicopter is a ship-based version of the baseline Ka-52, initially designed for basing on French-built Mistral-class helicopter carriers.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/923664
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    Post  KiloGolf on Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:16 pm

    George1 wrote:The Ka-29 helicopters currently in service will be replaced by the newest Ka-52K reconnaissance and combat helicopter

    So they're cutting down on naval transport/assault helos. How unwise Neutral
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    Post  franco on Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:30 pm

    KiloGolf wrote:
    George1 wrote:The Ka-29 helicopters currently in service will be replaced by the newest Ka-52K reconnaissance and combat helicopter

    So they're cutting down on naval transport/assault helos. How unwise Neutral

    Probably talking long term. There were 6 Ka-29's just upgraded at the manufacturing plant plus at least 2 others at local airfield maintenance plants. Up to that apparently only 4 were still operational.

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