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    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

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    Zivo

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  Zivo on Fri 25 Dec 2015, 20:29

    AlfaT8 wrote:It seems like Russian Robots have indeed been deployed (1:38), there job is mostly recon though.


    South Front is pretty much saying what we've been saying. It's unconfirmed.

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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat 26 Dec 2015, 14:22


    Side effects... study

    ''Hezbollah's Russian Military Education in Syria''

    http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/hezbollahs-russian-military-education-in-syria
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  JohninMK on Sat 26 Dec 2015, 22:43

    First time sighting on the Syrian Express. On the 21/12 130 Saratov went north through the Bosphorus carrying up to 10 Kamaz 4310 type trucks outside on the deck. There may have been more inside on the RO-RO deck. Clearly the Russians are using the trucks as cargo transports and are not leaving them in Syria for use there.

    Apart from that there seems to be no let up in the heavy utilisation of the transport fleet.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 00:48

    interesting collection of footage

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    auslander

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  auslander on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 03:17

    The advanced technology for reliable remotely controlled vehicles has been around for years. One of my hobbies is 1/16 RC tanks, precision scale models, pioneered by Tamiya (TM) of Japan, now made all over the place. The vehicles can be made extremely robust and agile. Watching and listening to these remote controlled tanks reminds me of he infancy of this hobby, the sound and jerky movements. If UAV's can be controlled from half a world away why could not land vehicles be observed and controlled the same way?

    This system of RCLV's is not surprising. The tank hobby has spread to Russia, particularly Moscow where the main club has been going to Kubinka Museum all summer and fall of this year. Would you think the RA is not aware of these vehicles? There are other scales of RC tanks built and used, up to notably 1/4 scale. There is actually a manufacture of units of 1/5 precision and well engineered vehicles in a little known corner of 404.

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    chinggis

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  chinggis on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 09:40

    Auslander, Smile
    If UAV's can be controlled from half a world away why could not land vehicles be observed and controlled the same way?
    Because, Russian and Russia is backward nation, with almost all of its people to be drunks. They are not able to produce anything and all what they have is came from West( it is stolen). So it is from time when they got blueprints for first atomic bomb, from mid format photographic cameras what are chip surrogate of Hasselblad and so on..
    With that stance, what is normal stance in Western hemisphere, peoples brain is washed and they do not think critically, they accept all what someone is tell them, they do what is told them to do, like a robots.
    Before 4-5 years I been in Ukraine, Kharkov. To be honest for me it is eyeopener. I see one world which I do not know that exist at all. All my knowledge came from TV where we are told (and see of course) how they are poor, backward, unorganized, unable to think and so on..
    After 10 days spent in that city where I live like ordinary citizen, I am shocked when I came in my country to see that we are much more backward, unorganized, unable to think. From that time, I can see clearly, West is in its final phase of its destruction. In USA and GB, people there are studied rise of Rome, and they use the same thing what is Rome done in ancient times, now or in our past. But they never understand why Rome is fall apart. Answer is simple, and we can see it now, all of us, everyone in his own country, we have a same symptoms. No money, no jobs, no security, apathy..
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    flamming_python

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  flamming_python on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 10:34

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Side effects...  study

    ''Hezbollah's Russian Military Education in Syria''

    http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/hezbollahs-russian-military-education-in-syria

    So much unfounded BS and conjecture

    Reports indicate that joint Hezbollah-Russian operations rooms have been established in Latakia and Damascus

    Which reports?

    During the 2006 Lebanon war, a joint Syrian-Russian intelligence post located in Syrian territory passed intelligence reports to Hezbollah.

    Pretty sure Israel would have raised some noise if the Russians passed on intel to Hezbollah. The only subject Israel brought up in fact was the precense of Kornet rockets in the Hezzie arsenal, that were earlier supplied by Russia to Syria.

    Russian forces have extensive urban warfare experience, so they likely have many pointers for the group, including how to organize an effective command-and-control structure, how to choose different weapons for different scenarios, how to create additional targets after entering a battlefield, and how to maintain logistical routes.

    We know that the Russians have advisers training regular Syrian forces, but I don't think Hezbollah needs to be taught how to fight. The Russians are probably only involved with training Syrian units, not the other foreign detachments in the country.

    Recently, for example, reports indicated that Hezbollah has acquired SA-22 surface-to-air missiles

    Again, which reports?
    First Israel alleged that Hezbollah was given Syrian Buks, blew them up, then Yakhonts, blew them up, now Pantsir-S1s.
    Syria doesn't have the resources to give out its limited quality of state-of-the-art weaponry; particularly that which concerns its already compromised air defence network - to Hezbollah.
    And Hezbollah certainly doesn't have the intel, specialists, logistics, or anything really - to be able to use such sophisticated systems with any level of effectiveness; although to some degree it would be able to (e.g. like rebels in the Donbass)

    Recent history has also shown that whatever Hezbollah learns, its partners in crime will soon follow suit. Numerous terrorist organizations have studied and implemented the group's military tactics -- in some cases, Hezbollah even sent trainers to help certain proxies upgrade their capabilities

    First I heard about any of this, I'm sceptical to say the least. Hezbollah are Iranian allies, but most terrorist organizations are Sunni ones.

    High-ranking Hezbollah veterans also reportedly trained Houthi forces in Yemen, who are now showing significant capabilities in their fight against the Arab coalition.

    Citation needed



    TL, DR - this looks like a straight up think-tank propaganda piece, or intentional misinformation.
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    OminousSpudd

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  OminousSpudd on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 11:12

    flamming_python wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Side effects...  study

    ''Hezbollah's Russian Military Education in Syria''

    http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/hezbollahs-russian-military-education-in-syria

    So much unfounded BS and conjecture

    Reports indicate that joint Hezbollah-Russian operations rooms have been established in Latakia and Damascus

    Which reports?

    During the 2006 Lebanon war, a joint Syrian-Russian intelligence post located in Syrian territory passed intelligence reports to Hezbollah.

    Pretty sure Israel would have raised some noise if the Russians passed on intel to Hezbollah. The only subject Israel brought up in fact was the precense of Kornet rockets in the Hezzie arsenal, that were earlier supplied by Russia to Syria.

    Russian forces have extensive urban warfare experience, so they likely have many pointers for the group, including how to organize an effective command-and-control structure, how to choose different weapons for different scenarios, how to create additional targets after entering a battlefield, and how to maintain logistical routes.

    We know that the Russians have advisers training regular Syrian forces, but I don't think Hezbollah needs to be taught how to fight. The Russians are probably only involved with training Syrian units, not the other foreign detachments in the country.

    Recently, for example, reports indicated that Hezbollah has acquired SA-22 surface-to-air missiles

    Again, which reports?
    First Israel alleged that Hezbollah was given Syrian Buks, blew them up, then Yakhonts, blew them up, now Pantsir-S1s.
    Syria doesn't have the resources to give out its limited quality of state-of-the-art weaponry; particularly that which concerns its already compromised air defence network - to Hezbollah.
    And Hezbollah certainly doesn't have the intel, specialists, logistics, or anything really - to be able to use such sophisticated systems with any level of effectiveness; although to some degree it would be able to (e.g. like rebels in the Donbass)

    Recent history has also shown that whatever Hezbollah learns, its partners in crime will soon follow suit. Numerous terrorist organizations have studied and implemented the group's military tactics -- in some cases, Hezbollah even sent trainers to help certain proxies upgrade their capabilities

    First I heard about any of this, I'm sceptical to say the least. Hezbollah are Iranian allies, but most terrorist organizations are Sunni ones.

    High-ranking Hezbollah veterans also reportedly trained Houthi forces in Yemen, who are now showing significant capabilities in their fight against the Arab coalition.

    Citation needed



    TL, DR - this looks like a straight up think-tank propaganda piece, or intentional misinformation.

    Appropriately vague, utterly mystifying... *sniff* *sniff* yep, smells like propaganda.
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    Kadmos45

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    Info about this "institute"

    Post  Kadmos45 on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 11:42

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Washington_Institute_for_Near_East_Policy

    Founder: Martin Indyk - former deputy research director for the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), a pro-Israel lobbying group in Washington.

    Washington Institute's advisory board included (among others):

    John R. Allen - ISIS tsar
    Henry Kissinger - self explanatory
    Richard Perle - former Assistant Secretary of Defense (and a psycho)
    Condoleezza Rice -  former Secretary of State (also a psycho)
    Joe Lieberman (former VP candidate) recipient of CUFI's Award "Defender of Israel Award".
    CUFI - Christians United for Israel

    And so on, and so on.


    Nothing more really to say.

    par far

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  par far on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 15:35

    Kadmos45 wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Washington_Institute_for_Near_East_Policy

    Founder: Martin Indyk - former deputy research director for the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), a pro-Israel lobbying group in Washington.

    Washington Institute's advisory board included (among others):

    John R. Allen - ISIS tsar
    Henry Kissinger - self explanatory
    Richard Perle - former Assistant Secretary of Defense (and a psycho)
    Condoleezza Rice -  former Secretary of State (also a psycho)
    Joe Lieberman (former VP candidate) recipient of CUFI's Award "Defender of Israel Award".
    CUFI - Christians United for Israel

    And so on, and so on.


    Nothing more really to say.


    It is no surprise here here, it is mostly Jewish bastards behind all of this.

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    Fred333

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  Fred333 on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 15:35

    Only transfer that took place is Hezbollah -> Hamas, before 2011. I have read somewhere (would need to dig up the source) that Syrian rebels then learned these techniques, tunneling among them, from Hamas in their turn.
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 16:47

    important news if confirmed

    Elijah J. Magnier
    ‏@EjmAlrai
    Russia informed the USA that its military operation against terrorists in Syria will continue regardless any deal
    http://www.alraimedia.com/ar/article/special-reports/2015/12/27/645546/nr/syria
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  PapaDragon on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 18:15

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    max steel

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  max steel on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 22:25

    France uses cruise missiles against Islamic State for first time


    SCALP long-range missiles were launched from French fighter jets based in the United Arab Emirates and Jordan as part of a bombing raid that targeted a command centre, training site and logistics depot in western Iraq on the border with Syria.

    The missiles were used for the first time in Libya in 2011 strikes and cost about 850,000 euros (617,300 pounds) each, according to the French press.

    France has stepped up strikes on Islamic State targets in Syria and Iraq after the organisation claimed responsibility for shootings and suicide bombings in Paris last month that left 130 people dead.
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    Cyberspec

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  Cyberspec on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 22:44

    flamming_python wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Side effects...  study

    ''Hezbollah's Russian Military Education in Syria''

    http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/hezbollahs-russian-military-education-in-syria

    So much unfounded BS and conjecture

    I think it's ridiculous to assume there is no contact or coordination between Russia and Iran/Hezbolah representatives just because there isn't widespread media reports about it.

    And yes Hezbolah did receive intelligence support from Russia in 2006 probably indirectly via the Syrians....there was a big media storm about it at the time


    _____________

    A couple of convoys hit a few days ago (videos are from 23rd Dec)

    Maarat Al-Nassan


    Deir Ezor province


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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  GarryB on Sun 27 Dec 2015, 23:48

    An important thing to keep in mind is that there is a significant difference between a land based robot and a UAV.

    Most land based robots would need to find their own way across the terrain and deal with problems like culverts and fences and walls... and even steps. Most of the time they avoid such obstacles but they will need remote controllers to identify valid targets and to authorise opening fire. Keep in mind people are not stupid... an intruder could take a hostage with them... if that hostage gets shot then the system fails. Equally ROBOT DEFENCE SYSTEM KILLS TWO SIX YO UNARMED BOYS is also a bit embarassing too and would be considered a failure.

    A UAV has waypoints to fly to its operational area and can fly there on autopilot with no interference from the operator. It is only when it gets to its operational area that an operator might manipulate the cameras or weapons... they probably wont fly the UAV themselves like a plane but might command a zig zag flight pattern or oval flight pattern to keep the UAV over enemy territory so enemy postions can be studied in detail and targets targetted when needed (either weapons launched or targets marked or positions noted for future attacks by other platforms).

    For a ground robot tasks like fire support during an attack or just moving back and up high to get good view of the battlefield perhaps with an auto grenade launcher or machine gun fitted to provide fire support. It might also be used for moving forward under enemy fire or might even be used to take the injured back from front line positions to where they can get help.
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  JohninMK on Mon 28 Dec 2015, 00:31

    GarryB wrote:An important thing to keep in mind is that there is a significant difference between a land based robot and a UAV.

    Most land based robots would need to find their own way across the terrain and deal with problems like culverts and fences and walls... and even steps. Most of the time they avoid such obstacles but they will need remote controllers to identify valid targets and to authorise opening fire.  Keep in mind people are not stupid... an intruder could take a hostage with them... if that hostage gets shot then the system fails. Equally ROBOT DEFENCE SYSTEM KILLS TWO SIX YO UNARMED BOYS is also a bit embarassing too and would be considered a failure.

    A UAV has waypoints to fly to its operational area and can fly there on autopilot with no interference from the operator. It is only when it gets to its operational area that an operator might manipulate the cameras or weapons... they probably wont fly the UAV themselves like a plane but might command a zig zag flight pattern or oval flight pattern to keep the UAV over enemy territory so enemy postions can be studied in detail and targets targetted when needed (either weapons launched or targets marked or positions noted for future attacks by other platforms).

    For a ground robot tasks like fire support during an attack or just moving back and up high to get good view of the battlefield perhaps with an auto grenade launcher or machine gun fitted to provide fire support. It might also be used for moving forward under enemy fire or might even be used to take the injured back from front line positions to where they can get help.
    Also, where UAVs just fly through air which is similar wherever they are, you mention terrain which is rarely the same. If this particular story had been about use in a built up area or flatish land it could have been almost believable. But the top of a hill is often a serious challenge for soldiers, let alone a machine.

    Robot 'tanks' will need to be transported to their scene of action, as opposed to as you say UAVs getting there under their own steam. Making scenario selection an interesting art in the future.

    ult

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  ult on Mon 28 Dec 2015, 00:48

    0:20


    short_fuze

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  short_fuze on Mon 28 Dec 2015, 01:20

    ult wrote:0:20


    The pilot probably dropped something on the floor of the cockpit and that was the quickest way of recovering it (/joke)
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    KoTeMoRe

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Mon 28 Dec 2015, 01:24

    Cyberspec wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Side effects...  study

    ''Hezbollah's Russian Military Education in Syria''

    http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/hezbollahs-russian-military-education-in-syria

    So much unfounded BS and conjecture

    I think it's ridiculous to assume there is no contact or coordination between Russia and Iran/Hezbolah representatives just because there isn't widespread media reports about it.

    And yes Hezbolah did receive intelligence support from Russia in 2006 probably indirectly via the Syrians....there was a big media storm about it at the time


    _____________

    A couple of convoys hit a few days ago (videos are from 23rd Dec)

    Maarat Al-Nassan


    Deir Ezor province




    That Hezz receives Intel from Russia, that's a given (Hezz is not a terrorist organization in Russia http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-russia-terrorgro-idUSKCN0T412520151115).

    Big Iz knows it, Russia knows it, Hez knows it.

    ult

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  ult on Mon 28 Dec 2015, 06:51




    ult

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  ult on Mon 28 Dec 2015, 06:54

    Rotation. Marines returned to Sevastopol.



    http://tvzvezda.ru/news/vstrane_i_mire/content/201512280723-2pdp.htm

    And another video.

    http://lifenews.ru/video/14242
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    flamming_python

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  flamming_python on Mon 28 Dec 2015, 07:40

    Cyberspec wrote:I think it's ridiculous to assume there is no contact or coordination between Russia and Iran/Hezbolah representatives just because there isn't widespread media reports about it.

    Of course there is - but what I bet there isn't are dedicated co-ordination centres between Russia and Hezbollah, or Russian training, arming of Hezbollah units, etc...

    Russia equips and trains the SAA.
    The Iranians and their Hezbollah proxies are the other foreign force helping the SAA and of course they're on the same side as Russia and co-ordination is a given - but they're responsible for their own just as Russia is responsible for its own. Hezbollah operates under the Iranian aegis and their field commanders.

    And yes Hezbolah did receive intelligence support from Russia in 2006 probably indirectly via the Syrians....there was a big media storm about it at the time

    I vaguely remember something like that but it wasn't Russia itself who passed on the intel or intended it to be passed on. Russia had no dog in the fight.
    Syria passed on the Kornets it bought from Russia too but that doesn't mean Russia had to give its permission for that.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon 28 Dec 2015, 14:33


    It finally dawned on them but naturally we still have obligatory "ZOMG Russia doomed!!!1!1!!" parts sprinkled around... Cool


    U.S. sees bearable costs, key goals met for Russia in Syria so far

    http://news.yahoo.com/u-sees-bearable-costs-key-goals-met-russia-061507121.html

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Three months into his military intervention in Syria, Russian President Vladimir Putin has achieved his central goal of stabilizing the Assad government and, with the costs relatively low, could sustain military operations at this level for years, U.S. officials and military analysts say.

    That assessment comes despite public assertions by President Barack Obama and top aides that Putin has embarked on an ill-conceived mission in support of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad that it will struggle to afford and that will likely fail.

    "I think it's indisputable that the Assad regime, with Russian military support, is probably in a safer position than it was," said a senior administration official, who requested anonymity. Five other U.S. officials interviewed by Reuters concurred with the view that the Russian mission has been mostly successful so far and is facing relatively low costs.

    The U.S. officials stressed that Putin could face serious problems the longer his involvement in the more than four-year-old civil war drags on.

    Yet since its campaign began on Sept. 30, Russia has suffered minimal casualties and, despite domestic fiscal woes, is handily covering the operation's cost, which analysts estimate at $1-2 billion a year. The war is being funded from Russia's regular annual defense budget of about $54 billion, a U.S. intelligence official said.

    The expense, analysts and officials said, is being kept in check by plummeting oil prices that, while hurting Russia's overall economy, has helped its defense budget stretch further by reducing the costs of fueling aircraft and ships. It has also been able to tap a stockpile of conventional bombs dating to the Soviet era.

    Putin has said his intervention is aimed at stabilizing the Assad government and helping it fight the Islamic State group, though Western officials and Syrian opposition groups say its air strikes mostly have targeted moderate rebels.

    Russia's Syrian and Iranian partners have made few major territorial gains.

    Yet Putin’s intervention has halted the opposition's momentum, allowing pro-Assad forces to take the offensive. Prior to Russia's military action, U.S. and Western officials said, Assad's government looked increasingly threatened.

    Rather than pushing back the opposition, Russia may be settling for defending Assad's grip on key population centers that include the heartland of his minority Alawite sect, said the U.S. intelligence official.

    Russia is taking advantage of the operation to test new weapons in battlefield conditions and integrate them into its tactics, the intelligence official said. It is refining its use of unarmed surveillance drones, the official added.

    "The Russians didn't go blindly into this," said the U.S. intelligence official, adding that they "are getting some benefit out of the cost."


    QUAGMIRE?

    Russia's intervention also appears to have strengthened its hand at the negotiating table. In recent weeks, Washington has engaged more closely with Russia in seeking a settlement to the war and backed off a demand for the immediate departure of Assad as part of any political transition.

    Obama has suggested as recently as this month that Moscow is being sucked into a foreign venture that will drain its resources and bog down its military.

    "An attempt by Russia and Iran to prop up Assad and try to pacify the population is just going to get them stuck in a quagmire and it won't work," Obama said on Oct. 2.

    On Dec. 1, he raised the prospect of Russia becoming "bogged down in an inconclusive and paralyzing civil conflict."

    The senior administration official denied any contradiction between Obama's statements and private assessments that Russia's campaign has been relatively effective so far.

    "I think the president's point has been...it's not going to succeed in the long run," the official said. The Russians "have become bound up in a civil war in a way that's going to be extremely difficult to extricate themselves from."

    U.S. officials have not publicly defined what a quagmire would look like for Russia. But Obama has raised the Soviet Union's disastrous decade-long Afghanistan occupation from 1979.

    U.S. officials said Russia's military footprint is relatively light. It comprises a long-time naval facility in Tartus, a major air base near the port city of Latakia, a second under expansion near Homs and several lesser posts.

    There are an estimated 5,000 Russian personnel in Syria, including pilots, ground crews, intelligence personnel, security units protecting the Russian bases and advisers to the Syrian government forces.

    Russia has lost an airliner to an Islamic State-claimed attack over Egypt that killed 224 people, and an Su-24 supersonic bomber shot down by Turkey. It is also allied with an exhausted Syrian army that is suffering manpower shortages and facing U.S.-backed rebels using anti-tank missiles.

    "It’s been a grind," said the intelligence official, adding that in terms of ground gains, "I think the Russians are not where they expected to be."

    Russian casualties in Syria have been relatively minimal, officially put at three dead. U.S. officials estimate that Russia may have suffered as many as 30 casualties overall.

    Vasily Kashin, a Moscow-based analyst, said the war is not financially stressing Russia.

    "All the available data shows us that the current level of military effort is completely insignificant for the Russian economy and Russian budget," said Kashin, of the Center for Analyses of Strategies and Technologies.

    "It can be carried on at the same level year after year after year,"
    he said.

    ult

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  ult on Mon 28 Dec 2015, 15:31


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