Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

Secret 2010 State Dept Report Warned of Turkey’s Neo-Ottoman Shift

Russian troops in Syria receive twelve-metre New Year tree

http://tass.ru/en/defense/846281

PapaDragon wrote:
Snackbar Warning: Explicit Content  

Interesting, First Orlan10 then Iranian drone swoops in, then big daddy rocks the place with planes...

Clearly the Russians and Iranians operate with their own assets in probably two dimensions (air/ground) which would explain the Iranian high focal point.

https://www.rt.com/news/326899-russia-turkey-knew-syria/

Turkey ‘officially acknowledges’ attack on Su-24 was a planned step - Russian MoD

A recent statement by a Turkish official revealing detailed awareness of Russian Air Force sorties in Syria can be regarded as “official acknowledgment” that the operation to down the Su-24 was a planned step, Russia's Ministry of Defense said.

DETAILS TO FOLLOW

http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20151223/1032211236/russia-1093-targets-syria.html

Jets from the Russian air group in the Syrian Arab Republic have conducted 302 sorties and hit 1,093 targets in the provinces of Idlib, Aleppo, Deir ez-Zor, Hama and Homs from December 18 to December 23," Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov said.

JohnSnow wrote:

Dima wrote:This is BS!!!
US and west will have absolutely no intel which is better than what the Syrians themselves would have gathered from the ground in general....the only intel US & co might have which could be better than what Syrians have will be on the terrorists organizations/groups they have funded and supported during the last 5-8 years or more. Now the question is - has the US/West shared/exposed these groups to help the Syrian Govt.
The answer to that question based on the ground realities, we saw untill the Russian involvement, is an absolute NO!
The bolded part w.r.t to Israel is garbage.

What are you talking about? I don't think you actually read the report because your argument makes no sense.
I suggest you read the report first. I'm not necessarily commenting in the accuracy of the report.

First off, SAA has mostly human intelligence and that's only one aspect Intel collection. US, on the other hand, has a formidable electronic intelligence capability and plenty to offer SAA if it so chooses. And the report does not diminish Syria's ability to collect Intel. In fact, Hersh was talking about a 2-way Intel exchange with SAA giving valuable about Jihadists back to them.

A recent report out of Germany about Germany's BND close relationship with Syria and German embassy in Syria remained open until 2012.
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/is-islamischer-staat-bnd-will-enger-mit-assad-kooperieren-a-1068463.html#js-article-comments-box-pager

Also if you read the report, you'd also see that Intel wasn't passed over to Syria by US Administration, but by Pentagon via military to military channels.

Is there a need to waste energy over it?
My point was simple, I have highlighted the part. That is one area where the US/west could have helped the Syrian Govt because they would have known the exact or more precise details of these groups/organizations there by helping the Syrian Govt to fight the terrorists effectively.

So the question is did the US/West expose their own funded and supported groups, going out of their way, to help the Syrian Govt to fight against terrorists?

Even after the so called intel exchage by the US/West, Syrian Govt was losing territory after territory untill the Russian's gatecrashed the western party. So what say? Was the US/West supplying wrong intel which was of no use to the Syrian Govt?
I dont know...but ground realities we saw untill the Russian involvement make me think otherwise.

Germany's or any other western nations diplomatic/intel presence is only meant to get whatever useful intel from the Syrian Govt regarding the elements that may have slipped into europe and could potentially be harmful to their respective countries rather than to help Syria. Thats the normal doing of these self-centred powers.

Btw, what do you think the intel shared by the US/West was about?

Dima wrote:

JohnSnow wrote:

Dima wrote:This is BS!!!
US and west will have absolutely no intel which is better than what the Syrians themselves would have gathered from the ground in general....the only intel US & co might have which could be better than what Syrians have will be on the terrorists organizations/groups they have funded and supported during the last 5-8 years or more. Now the question is - has the US/West shared/exposed these groups to help the Syrian Govt.
The answer to that question based on the ground realities, we saw untill the Russian involvement, is an absolute NO!
The bolded part w.r.t to Israel is garbage.

What are you talking about? I don't think you actually read the report because your argument makes no sense.
I suggest you read the report first. I'm not necessarily commenting in the accuracy of the report.

First off, SAA has mostly human intelligence and that's only one aspect Intel collection. US, on the other hand, has a formidable electronic intelligence capability and plenty to offer SAA if it so chooses. And the report does not diminish Syria's ability to collect Intel. In fact, Hersh was talking about a 2-way Intel exchange with SAA giving valuable about Jihadists back to them.

A recent report out of Germany about Germany's BND close relationship with Syria and German embassy in Syria remained open until 2012.
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/is-islamischer-staat-bnd-will-enger-mit-assad-kooperieren-a-1068463.html#js-article-comments-box-pager

Also if you read the report, you'd also see that Intel wasn't passed over to Syria by US Administration, but by Pentagon via military to military channels.

Is there a need to waste energy over it?
My point was simple, I have highlighted the part. That is one area where the US/west could have helped the Syrian Govt because they would have known the exact or more precise details of these groups/organizations there by helping the Syrian Govt to fight the terrorists effectively.

So the question is did the US/West expose their own funded and supported groups, going out of their way, to help the Syrian Govt to fight against terrorists?

Even after the so called intel exchage by the US/West, Syrian Govt was losing territory after territory untill the Russian's gatecrashed the western party. So what say? Was the US/West supplying wrong intel which was of no use to the Syrian Govt?
I dont know...but ground realities we saw untill the Russian involvement make me think otherwise.

Germany's or any other western nations diplomatic/intel presence is only meant to get whatever useful intel from the Syrian Govt regarding the elements that may have slipped into europe and could potentially be harmful to their respective countries rather than to help Syria. Thats the normal doing of these self-centred powers.

Btw, what do you think the intel shared by the US/West was about?

If true;

Despite the US funnelling some critical components to Iran during the Iran-Iraq war, Iran got a bloody nose and the Iraqis kept advancing somehow. It's simply two parallel efforts that allow an un expected outcome. JCS tries to undermine Obomba, ends up creating the conditions for a ISIS surge.

In a sense it's a blessing in disguise. Russia trashes an already fucked up plan.

New videos.

Dima wrote:
Is there a need to waste energy over it?
My point was simple, I have highlighted the part. That is one area where the US/west could have helped the Syrian Govt because they would have known the exact or more precise details of these groups/organizations there by helping the Syrian Govt to fight the terrorists effectively.

So the question is did the US/West expose their own funded and supported groups, going out of their way, to help the Syrian Govt to fight against terrorists?

Even after the so called intel exchage by the US/West, Syrian Govt was losing territory after territory untill the Russian's gatecrashed the western party. So what say? Was the US/West supplying wrong intel which was of no use to the Syrian Govt?
I dont know...but ground realities we saw untill the Russian involvement make me think otherwise.

Hersh's report was about what happened in 2012/2013. A lot has changed since including the make-up of the JCS. And given the level of secrecy and high ranking personnel involved, it'll be safe to assume that a report like this can only come out long after the supposed exchanges had ended.

You do understand that if this report is accurate, this would have been a very risky endeavor for the JCS. They'd be careful as to how much info they pass to SAA as their primary goal at the time would be to prevent a total collapse of the Syrian government. Hence they'd give them enough info to help them and their allies stop the bleeding, but not to necessarily turn the tide.

Germany's or any other western nations diplomatic/intel presence is only meant to get whatever useful intel from the Syrian Govt regarding the elements that may have slipped into europe and could potentially be harmful to their respective countries rather than to help Syria. Thats the normal doing of these self-centred powers.

Why would Syria cooperate with German BND if it's not getting anything in return?
In fact, an attack in Europe by wahabbis will only help push Syrian government narrative. Hence, the only plausible reason for SAA to pass any kind of information to the BND would be in exchange for something (most likely Intel as well).

Btw, what do you think the intel shared by the US/West was about?

I can't speculate. However, US have formidable signals intelligence, Satellite Intel etc
There's a whole bunch that they can provide if they so choose.

Did they survive or not? Let's vote.

Geo location of the strike. The bomb fell less than 10 meters away. My guess it was OFAB-250.

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.7599163,36.1346811,303m/data=!3m1!1e3?hl=en

ult wrote:Did they survive or not? Let's vote.

500 kg of good stuff at that range?

Snackbars say there was a single survivor of that strike, they just published his photo:

http://im8.asset.yvimg.kz/userimages/seattle/S98T3k3M38omeY8L8CQSNs52Bwwylx.jpg

Indirectly connected with this thread. Three Serbian organisations created a big mural in Novi Sad as shown by footage shot on Monday, to honour pilot Oleg Peshkov of the Sukhoi Su-24 that was downed in Syria by Turkish forces in November.

Zivo wrote:

Would make a good trial test for Armata.

ult wrote:

Just noticed that the Su-24 at the start of that clip is not carrying external tanks. Not spotted that before, was it a recent change?

sepheronx wrote:

Zivo wrote:

Would make a good trial test for Armata.

even thought under the surface sounds good idea.. is a bad one.
There is too many traitors inside Syrian army ,is not rare still today that some defect or arrested, and if ever Russia do something as stupid as that, the tank will be stolen withing a month and captured by Israel and reverse engineered and all its technology studied. In fact even T-90 tanks are a risk , i will not give syria anything better than T-72b3 armed with improved reactive armor and first generation arena reactive armor. Russia will have to be really careful with too important
technology sell to Syria.

Vann7 wrote:

sepheronx wrote:

Zivo wrote:

Would make a good trial test for Armata.

even thought under the surface sounds good idea.. is a bad one.
There is too many traitors inside Syrian army ,is not rare still today that some defect or arrested, and if ever Russia do something as stupid as that, the tank will be stolen withing a month and captured by Israel and reverse engineered and all its technology studied. In fact even T-90 tanks are a risk , i will not give syria anything better than T-72b3 armed with improved reactive armor and first generation arena reactive armor.  Russia will have to be really careful with too important
technology sell to Syria.

If it sits at base and used nearby, then I cannot see anything such as that happening. There are risks of course. Another good one would be T-90MS as a method for advertisement too.

This is a bit off topic but the U.S. just recently slapped sanctions on Azerbaijan. I wonder, is George Soro's setting up a color revolution to topple Aliyev and put in a Islamist GCC/Turkey stooge? If that's the case then the war against IS-SHAM will get interesting, especially considering Azerbaijan has a 90% Shia population.

magnumcromagnon wrote:This is a bit off topic but the U.S. just recently slapped sanctions on Azerbaijan. I wonder, is George Soro's setting up a color revolution to topple Aliyev and put in a Islamist GCC/Turkey stooge? If that's the case then the war against IS-SHAM will get interesting, especially considering Azerbaijan has a 90% Shia population.

doubt that. These NGO's were getting banned in Azerbaijan before Russia. As well, if Shia majority wins rule, say good bye to turkish relations between the two.

magnumcromagnon wrote:This is a bit off topic but the U.S. just recently slapped sanctions on Azerbaijan. I wonder, is George Soro's setting up a color revolution to topple Aliyev and put in a Islamist GCC/Turkey stooge? If that's the case then the war against IS-SHAM will get interesting, especially considering Azerbaijan has a 90% Shia population.

Did Azerbaijan not have good realtions with Turkey and Israel? I am not sure about the sanctions, why/what are they for? I thought Azerbaijan was already friendly to the Zionsts.

sepheronx wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:This is a bit off topic but the U.S. just recently slapped sanctions on Azerbaijan. I wonder, is George Soro's setting up a color revolution to topple Aliyev and put in a Islamist GCC/Turkey stooge? If that's the case then the war against IS-SHAM will get interesting, especially considering Azerbaijan has a 90% Shia population.

doubt that.  These NGO's were getting banned in Azerbaijan before Russia.  As well, if Shia majority wins rule, say good bye to turkish relations between the two.

You are right about the Shia majority, if they win rule(which they have a good chance because of the help they are getting form Iran), the current government in Azerbaijan has been too friendly towards the Shias.

The first in world RF army performed full attack with fighting robots. They captured rebels fortified position on the strategic hill 754m close to Syrian Latakia. They used 10 automatic "battle vehicles" type «Платформа-М»(Platforma-M) and «Арго»(Argo). Those vehicles where supported by UAV and howitzers "Акация"(Akacija) and Syrian infantry. Commander of the attack was the operator in Moscow. He directed and controlled the battle in real time. After the robots got 110 meters close to the rebels positions, the enemy opened fire on them. Those positions were pointed by "battle vehicles" and their fire was supported by fire from 152 mm howitzers with 40 kg charge. The rebels did not have the slightest chance, all their movement was controlled by UAVs. The battle lasted only 20 minutes, the rebels fled in panic, leaving behind the wounded and dead. On the slopes of the hill were found death nearly 70 rebels. SAA - only 4 injured.

Source Full info link RUS