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    Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:51 am

    ultron wrote:Perhaps Russia thinks SAA is too crappy to recapture the whole country. After dropping tens of thousands of bombs, SAA failed to capture a single city. A few towns and some villages were captured. True. But that is nothing compared to Allied advance during WW2 which saw the end of Nazi Germany, Italy, Japan within a few years. Ditto with the Spanish civil war. Ditto with the American civil war. Ditto with the Chinese civil war. At this pace, SAA still cannot capture a single city years from now. SAA is not willing to sacrifice manpower to capture places. They only wait until Russian bombs flatten a place then they walk in. So it is reasonable Russia thinks the fighting should stop. It's not going anywhere.

    I quote Churkin.

    "But if in some way they are knocked off that path -- and this again is my personal opinion -- then a very difficult situation could arise. Including for the Syrians themselves. Because whatever the capabilities of the Syrian army, it was the effective operations of Russian air forces that allowed them to push their opponents back from Damascus."

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-russia-syria-envoy-idUSKCN0VR240

    Let's face it. If the SAA is good, then it should have captured a city by now. It hasn't. That means SAA is not good. So what's the point of continuing this fighting? For how long? Decades? Centuries? For what? We don't want another Hundred Years War.

    This is not Russia/SAA UN this is whole eco-system with US/Sauds/Turkey/EU and other evil-doers , all with trade links, blackmails possibility of war. Real one. Maybe Kurds did not want to submit to Russian requirements so they will be let alone for a while? Maybe logistics needs to upload more stuff? words mean little dids a lot. Sure we can speculate but we do not know real situation nor Russian options. So saying thet Russian leadership sucks is pretty much of being drama queen.


    Rodinazombie

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  Rodinazombie on Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:56 am

    Cyrus the great wrote:I'm just hoping that Churkin is being Machievelian in his admonition of Assad for rejecting a cease-fire that would prevent Damascus from making any more gains by stopping its momentum dead in its tracks. I'll defer judgment instead of being hysterical. Russia knows what it's doing.

    Russia probably realises that its people on the ground, in this case SAA arent capable on their own, at least yet of retaking the whole territory and so will have to 'take a breather' every so often and use diplomacy to further weaken the enemy in the meantime. There is no doubt that assad/russia will win, the question is at what cost, if that victory can be partly won by diplomacy, then that surely is a good thing.


    ultron

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  ultron on Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:01 am

    IMO, drop a nuke on Idlib city. Problem solved. Jihadists will surrender the very next day cheers

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    GunshipDemocracy

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:03 am

    ultron wrote:IMO, drop a nuke on Idlib city. Problem solved. Jihadists will surrender the very next day cheers




    no, they wont, those shadows on debris cannot sign anything Smile

    Cyrus the great

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  Cyrus the great on Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:18 am

    Rodinazombie wrote:
    Cyrus the great wrote:I'm just hoping that Churkin is being Machievelian in his admonition of Assad for rejecting a cease-fire that would prevent Damascus from making any more gains by stopping its momentum dead in its tracks. I'll defer judgment instead of being hysterical. Russia knows what it's doing.

    Russia probably realises that its people on the ground, in this case SAA arent capable on their own, at least yet of retaking the whole territory and so will have to 'take a breather' every so often and use diplomacy to further weaken the enemy in the meantime. There is no doubt that assad/russia will win, the question is at what cost, if that victory can be partly won by diplomacy, then that surely is a good thing.


    That's a possibility that we can't dismiss because we're simply not privy to what's really going on in that conflict. I just think that Churkin could have expressed himself with a little more grace and sensitivity. The SAA [like every Middle-eastern military] is riddled with problems and the Russians have helped them tremendously... and these modernization efforts are being made all the more difficult by the ongoing war - a war imposed and fuled by some of the world's most powerful Nation-States. I still hope that this is a smokes-screen. I'm quite certain that most of the Islamist rebels will not be receptive to a ceasefire of any sort, and so I expect that the Russians will continue their operations. russia

    Cyrus the great

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  Cyrus the great on Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:24 am

    ultron wrote:IMO, drop a nuke on Idlib city. Problem solved. Jihadists will surrender the very next day cheers


    Right, because exterminating hundreds of thousands of civilians in a nuclear holocaust and giving legitimacy to facile and viciously false Western propaganda against Russia is a great idea. Seriously, what the fuck!?

    ultron

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  ultron on Fri Feb 19, 2016 1:55 am

    Cyrus the great wrote:
    ultron wrote:IMO, drop a nuke on Idlib city. Problem solved. Jihadists will surrender the very next day cheers


    Right, because exterminating hundreds of thousands of civilians in a nuclear holocaust and giving legitimacy to facile and viciously false Western propaganda against Russia  is a great idea. Seriously, what the fuck!?

    Either a million bombs or a single nuke. That is how Idlib city will be taken. Whatever saves lives at this point is a good thing.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  GarryB on Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:01 am

    The use of a nuclear weapon in frustration would create more problems and self harm than any good it could possibly do.

    Makes you sound desperate and pathetic to be honest.

    Like decapitation for a solution to a minor head cold...


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    higurashihougi

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  higurashihougi on Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:59 am

    ultron wrote:I quote Churkin.

    "But if in some way they are knocked off that path -- and this again is my personal opinion -- then a very difficult situation could arise. Including for the Syrians themselves. Because whatever the capabilities of the Syrian army, it was the effective operations of Russian air forces that allowed them to push their opponents back from Damascus."

    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-russia-syria-envoy-idUSKCN0VR240

    Let's face it. If the SAA is good, then it should have captured a city by now. It hasn't. That means SAA is not good. So what's the point of continuing this fighting? For how long? Decades? Centuries? For what? We don't want another Hundred Years War.

    Reuters and other Western propagmedia twisted Churkin's words.

    For example, in tass.ru there is a paragraph that Reuters doesn't mention:

    http://tass.ru/politika/2680349

    Если власти Сирии не согласятся на прекращение огня, это может привести к тому, что военный конфликт в стране продлится "очень и очень долго", отметил Виталий Чуркин.

    "Сейчас (правительственные войска Сирии), возможно, возьмут Алеппо, крупнейший центр на севере страны. Но если они (власти Сирии ) будут исходить из того, что никакого перемирия не надо, а нужно воевать до победного конца, то этот конфликт будет продолжаться очень и очень долго. А это страшно себе представить", - сказал он, комментируя высказывание президента Сирии Башара Асада о решимости воевать до победы.

    Roughly means, if Assad ignores all chance of negiotation and peace agreements, if Assad refuses all kinds of ceasefire and goes on with hardcore fight to the end, the Syrian War will be very long, very bitter, and will have unimaginable consequences.

    And after all, Churkin carefully claimed that all are just his personal opinions.
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  JohninMK on Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:21 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    Makes you sound desperate and pathetic to be honest.
    .
    Pretty spot on analysis of Ultron
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  Militarov on Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:30 pm

    "Russia's envoy to the UN on Friday warned long-term ally President Bashar al-Assad over his vow to retake all of Syria, saying he faced dire consequences if he did not comply with Moscow over the peace process. "Russia has invested very seriously in this crisis, politically, diplomatically and now also militarily," Vitaly Churkin told Kommersant daily, referring to an international agreement to cease hostilities sealed in Munich last week. "Therefore we would like Assad also to respond to this," he said, adding that the Syrian leader's stance "is not in accord with the diplomatic efforts that Russia is making." At their meeting in Munich, the 17-nation group backing Syria's peace process agreed to work for a ceasefire, the lifting of starvation sieges and the resumption of talks.

    In an interview with AFP last week, Assad defiantly pledged to retake the whole of the country, speaking before the plan for a nationwide "cessation of hostilities" in Syria was announced. Asked to comment to journalists on the unusually outspoken criticism of Assad, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov on Friday said President Vladimir Putin backed the Syrian peace process but stressed that the ceasefire had not yet been implemented. "Everyone including President Putin recognises that there is no alternative other than a political resolution," he said. Nevertheless the ceasefire "is now being worked out, discussed. Wait, let's not run ahead," Peskov said.

    In the interview, Churkin, who has served as Russia's ambassador to the United Nations since 2006, stressed that if Syria "follows Russia's leadership in resolving this crisis, then they have a chance to come out of it in a dignified way." "If they in some way stray from this path -- and this is my personal opinion -- a very difficult situation could arise. Including for themselves," he warned. "If they proceed on the basis that no ceasefire is necessary and they need to fight to a victorious end, then this conflict will last a very long time and that is terrifying to imagine."

    Syria is "already on the brink of falling apart," he said.

    - 'Too late' for no-fly zone -

    Churkin however also suggested that Assad's comments were made for political impact."


    Source and rest of the article: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/afp/article-3454198/Russia-warns-Assad-vow-retake-Syria.html

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    magnumcromagnon

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:52 am

    Yet another Western lie debunked...Remember MSM's claim that Russia's air-campaign is the cause of the migrant crisis?



    Here's a UNICEF infographic depicting migrant flows to Europe. Notice something yet?



    ...That's right the peak of the migrant flow was actually 'before' the air-campaign, and has been gradually decreasing ever since it began...because of the air-campaign.

    Eat d*ck Obama, Merkel Ferkel, Turdogan lol! Razz
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Feb 20, 2016 4:19 am


    ''Turkish intervention in Syria risks Turkey-Russia war: Hollande''

    http://news.yahoo.com/turkish-intervention-syria-risks-turkey-russia-war-hollande-182646388.html
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    kvs

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  kvs on Sat Feb 20, 2016 4:38 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    ''Turkish intervention in Syria risks Turkey-Russia war: Hollande''

    http://news.yahoo.com/turkish-intervention-syria-risks-turkey-russia-war-hollande-182646388.html

    Russia cannot yield to these terrorist exporting f*ckers. It is about Russia's domestic security. Having jihadistan
    spanning from Syria to Iraq will serve as a launching pad for jihad inside Russia and the ex-USSR republics. This
    effort to destabilize Russia is an ongoing project since the 1990s and the Saudi sponsored and Washington approved
    Wahabbi infiltration into Chechnya. Turdkey is central to this project and Turdkey is trying to radicalize the Tatars
    in Crimea.

    If Turdkey invades, then Russia must beat it down in Syria. That will be sufficient. Let NATzO go and try to find
    a pretext to launch a war on Russia. Turdkey has no business being in Syria. And there are no refugees in the
    eastern desert to protect. I guess the NATzO propaganda chorus MSM will be screaming about Russia invading or
    bombing in Turdkish territory. So perhaps it is time to call NATzO's bluff too. And here nuclear weapons are ideal.
    NATzO better be prepared for a nuclear showdown and decide what it values more. Its existence or terrorists.

    Vann7

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  Vann7 on Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:24 am

    Not surprising Obama backed Turkey , and did not condemn the shelling of Syrian army or kurds.

    I will not be surprised if Obama and all western Elite finance the whole Turkey military operation in Syria . Using them as their spear against Russia.  So instead of using ISIS ,now they will raise their interference in Syria by helping Turkey.

    And CHurkin is an idiot. if the imbecile believe cease of fires will end the war in Syria ,then
    he is a liar . They only want to freeze the conflict ,even if that sacrifice Syria security and Syria
    losing northern aleppo ,Idlib and Raqqa.  

    What is clear in all this?

    1)Obama ,neither Americans will back down in Syria. They have nothing and only win by keeping Russia pinned down in Syria. Because money Russia invest in the Syrian operation is money Russia will not invest in development of its nation. and for every Russian plane shot down ,the support to Putin can only go down. By not solving the conflict Putin political future will be in question.

    2)Turkey will not back down..Erdogan is now asking Emperor powers .And he will not stop
    its agression to Syria until they capture at least all Northern Aleppo ,Northern Latakia ,Raqqa and maintain Idlib.

    3)Russia is seeking to capitulate with Americans.. to give them something (that is some Syrian territory) in change for peace. How naive the imbeciles are. Americans will not retreat in Syria ,
    not now and not never as long Americans continues supporing their government to "Send more troops"

    So its seems ,after all we have seen.. AMericans and Turkey only pushing forward to increase
    the aggression in Syria the more they advance .
    and Russia showing sign of capitulation with Americans by seeking questionable cease of fires ,that will not be respected by AMericans as neither one in the past was. So Russia only chance out ,is to hold for a decade in syria. Until the American citizens becomes so annoyed and demand their government to stay away of it.Or that Russia declare war against Turkey and beat the hell of their army positions with their airforce and start sinking Turkey warships until they agree to end the war and sign for peace.

    Another card Russia have are the Kurds ,and they can start arming heavily Kurds to fight
    by proxy Turkey.. but if Turkey notice Russia is aiding them ,they will take the fight directly
    to Russia.  In any case , unless a full scale war start..and Turkey beaten badly , i dont see the way ending any time soon. it will last many years and it will not be because Assad advancing
    but Because Russia underestimate their American partners how much determination they have
    to collapse Russia.   Which is the whole point of the Syrian war .  The American real target is not Syria but Russia. and this is something the imbecile Churkin needs to be aware.
    That Syria is only attacked because of them.

    In fact i can see Americans opening new fronts to overwhelm Russia. Just days ago Lybia was
    bombed by a rare lonely attack of the US airforce supposedly against ISIS.and guess which target they hit? Serbian Diplomats ,that were kidnapped in Lybia.  the photos i saw just recently a women and a man.. their bodies death. How coincident eh? the Americans do an attack and
    Serbian diplomats end killed?

    the Imbecile of Churkin ,needs to realize the people they want to negotiate a "Cease of fire"
    its main goal is not Syria but Russia. and that they are officially in a proxy war that americans
    are leading against them. So Russia better be prepared and not caught again with their pants down ,(like the shooting of their  bomber). because Americans diplomatic circus and cease of fire only is a distraction. and nothing else.  In G20 Obama did the same.. show a lot of openess
    to Putin ,and discussions of ending the war. but it was all a show.. weeks later Biden go to Turkey and encourage erdogan to continue the war against Syria.

    So Russians better fully understand the war is against Russia and not Syria..
    That is NOT a Syrian Problem only   but a Russian one too.. and that there is nothing
    they can do ,to stay away of any conflict other than surrender to american imperialism ,and become a puppet of USA . because Americans will continue opening new battle fields to threaten Russia interest. ie. Moldova ,Serbia ,transnistria and Tajikistan ,Egypt and kalingrad ,Venezuela ,armenia but could be new fronts. and this is not mentioning a restart of the Ukraine front. and that any sign of desperation to end the conflict from their side will only encourage Americans to pressure more. The big missing player in all this is IRAN..  IRAN and SYria do have a defense pact signed that IRAN is not honoring. since not a single word against Turkey. If IRAN threatened Turkey with war if continues shelling Syria ,and threaten to start shelling Turkey if continue it will totally change the whole dynamics of the conflict. Because NATO will not want to fight IRAN . while Russia can easily cover their back.

    All Said ,is the worst time for Russia to show sign of weakness. it is very dangerous.
    and churkin should be fired for showing a sign that there are major conflict of ideas with Syria.


    Last edited by Vann7 on Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:34 am; edited 2 times in total
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

    Post  Militarov on Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:25 am



    NDF guy somewhere in Latakia with Russian advisor

    -------

    http://www.russiadefence.net/viewtopic.forum?t=7308

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    Re: Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #7

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