Russian military intervention and aid to Syria #6

KiloGolf wrote:

KoTeMoRe wrote:There's rumour about NATO strike on SAA position in Deir Ez Zour, 4 KIA/13WIA 2 Tanks out.

Still not confirmed, I posted it in the Syrian thread.
@Ivan Sidorenko1 reports heavy RuAF activity over the area right now.

Looks to be true. http://tass.ru/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/2503911

Sure it was an accident. What if they hit Russian advisers embedded within the SAA? The response should be quite simple, hit a Turkish border outpost "by accident" or take out a few Kurds that the US is operating alongside "by accident." No harm, no foul. Show them that these mistakes will not be tolerated.

A little of topic..

I really don't understand Russia foreign policy with weapons exports..
Today the Pro Liberal opposition ,that wants to be another Colombia with american
military bases in venezuela ,won in venezuela parliament elections and total domination of it..

Russia gave Chavez the most modern S-300s air defenses ,the ones that IRAN wanted ,and now Americans will get control of them ,study it and fully understand how to deal with those defenses.
Russia weapons policy ,its exports is a major Threat to Russia nation security , because exports
its best weapons to nations that later US have control of them.

IF Russia had more brains it will not sell its most advanced weapons to nations that can change its government  and completely side with the US side. Risking its technology to be reverse engineered and or help Americans improve its air defenses.

If any it will be better if Russia Rent instead its S-300s equipment and not sell it ,
with a contract that says that if the government in power change overnight or lose elections
by a non friendly opposition to Russia interest.. that Russia will have the right to remove the equipment. Putin was so moronic that was suggesting Pak-FA to brazil , that country that will have no chance to win in the next elections against a pro US side. Basically all LAtin America is turning into a potential colony of USA.. and it was the world oil prices slowdown and poor economy what provoked people to dramatically change and switch sides.

In more news.. Syria government confirmed the Attack on its army barracks and
sent a letter to United Nations announcing US Aggression on its Troops..
This is exactly the way to do.. to call world attention first that US coalition attacked
Syrian army..  the next time they attacked or the third time they will be in a better position
to retaliate at the planes attacking them.

According to the Syrian Foreign Ministry, four coalition aircraft launched nine missiles at Syrian Army facilities on Sunday evening, killing at least three and injuring another 13.

it was a massive attack of 4 planes..and the first time that happens..
US is using its coalition as a shield from Russian airstrikes..because Russia will prefer to not
attack France or Germany or UK.. and allow americans to hide behind them.

We will see what happens next.. but definitively this is just the start of major escalation
against Syrian army. I predict israel will now attack Syria from the south..or Turkey across border.. at LAtakia..  Sooner or later Russia will need to give an ultimatum to Americans that
will close the airspace if they continue its aggression to Syrian army that are fighting ISIS.

http://sputniknews.com/politics/20151207/1031350219/strikes-syria-facilities-un-coalition.html

all this show the US coalition is feeling the pressure and is trying to block Russia operations against ISIS and wants to  create a different conflict now that will interrupt their anti-ISIS operations. it was a matter of time to happen.. im sure that RUssia had an idea of what to do next.

The interesting part in all this.. is that Russia cannot back down.. they know the war
in Syria in reality is a war against Russia. a proxy war..and that if Americans allowed to get their way and defeat the Syrian Army..it will mean ,the terrorist will later be exported against IRAQ
and or Russia territory or Ukraine and continue the fight against Russia there.

What all this means.. is that Russia cannot leave. no matter what happens ,even if that means a limited fight against American, otherwise it will be worse for them to fight ISIS in Russia territory or in Ukraine with a way bigger mercenary forces and armed with more lethal weapons.

Is there a "red line" for Russia?

How many times can Russian aircraft be shot down or Syrian troops be bombed before Russia is forced to take military action against the US/NATO?

Or is this completely out of the question? Will Russia rather withdraw from Syria altogether than to take military action against the US/NATO?

Vann7 wrote:A little of topic..

I really don't understand Russia foreign policy with weapons exports..
Today the Pro Liberal opposition ,that wants to be another Colombia with american
military bases in venezuela ,won in venezuela parliament elections and total domination of it..

How about opening a new thread in International Politics Forum and discuss international politics there?

And lol, you're the one that really don't understand latin american politics.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-12-07/assad-slams-us-bombing-government-troops-turkey-accuses-russia-violating-montreux-tr

Turkey now says Russia violated the Montreaux Treaty by placing a soldier with a shouldered rocket launcher on the deck of a warship as it passed through the strait.

PHOTOSHOP

Anyone who thinks that a Russian sailor would wave around some MANPAD "for protection" needs to stop whiffing the
incense.

It's not a photoshop. What the hell are you talking about. And it's obvious that it has nothing to do with Montreaux Treaty. The turks are unpredictable shitheads, it's good that the captain of the ship decided to have a marine with manpad just in case.

The whole Russian army is trigger happy and wants a revenge. They just wait for an opportunity and the order.

ult wrote:It's not a photoshop. What the hell are you talking about. And it's obvious that it has nothing to do with Montreaux Treaty. The turks are unpredictable shitheads, it's good that the captain of the ship decided to have a marine with manpad just in case.

The whole Russian army is trigger happy and wants a revenge. They just wait for an opportunity and the order.

If it happened for real and the Captain of that ship did it on his own initiative he could well be in trouble. It was a pretty stupid thing to do, why wind the Turks up needlessly? To give your 'opponent' a potential stick to hit you with is just idiotic. Its bad politics. Anyway doesn't that ship have build in Igla launchers?

If he was instructed you wonder how far up the chain of command the order originated.

kvs wrote:http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-12-07/assad-slams-us-bombing-government-troops-turkey-accuses-russia-violating-montreux-tr
Anyone who thinks that a Russian sailor would wave around some MANPAD "for protection" needs to stop whiffing the
incense.

He's not waving. The weapon is not activated/aimed at anything. This is standard procedure when ships pass through other nations' waters (innocent passage: weapon radars off, ESM/ECM off, guns straight maybe at 30-35 degree, missiles/CIWS disengaged, ASW helicopters on deck or hangar).

Still force protection is there if operating in sketchy area, with weapons not aimed and maybe raised (LMGs, 50 cals, 20 mms, etc.).



PS. not sure about sonar.

ult wrote:It's not a photoshop. What the hell are you talking about. And it's obvious that it has nothing to do with Montreaux Treaty. The turks are unpredictable shitheads, it's good that the captain of the ship decided to have a marine with manpad just in case.

The whole Russian army is trigger happy and wants a revenge. They just wait for an opportunity and the order.

Sure thing there, no lighting gradients on the "black widow sailor" whatsoever but the hands are visible and the tip of the "MANPAD" is illuminated.
You are engaged in proof by assertion, while I see obvious photoshop artifacts. Lighting is the most difficult aspect to fake and for a good
reason since it requires a 3D model with ray tracing to get right.

Why don't all of you "it's real" believers justify why Russian naval officers would be such retards as to have a sailor wave around a
MANPAD while traversing Turkish waters. What possible military or political justification would they have for this? I have not seen
any of you lot provide anything close to an argument. All you do is bleat that "it's real". Whatever, it's like arguing with fundies
about evolution.

KiloGolf wrote:

kvs wrote:http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-12-07/assad-slams-us-bombing-government-troops-turkey-accuses-russia-violating-montreux-tr
Anyone who thinks that a Russian sailor would wave around some MANPAD "for protection" needs to stop whiffing the
incense.

He's not waving. The weapon is not activated/aimed at anything. This is standard procedure when ships pass through other nations' waters (innocent passage: weapon radars off, ESM/ECM off, guns straight maybe at 30-35 degree, missiles/CIWS disengaged, ASW helicopters on deck or hangar).

Still force protection is there if operating in sketchy area, with weapons not aimed and maybe raised (LMGs, 50 cals, 20 mms, etc.).

Your statement is a non sequitur. Why does this "black widow sailor" need to have the MANPAD in his hands in the first place?
Whether it is aimed or not is irrelevant. It serves zero purpose for Russia to have one of its sailors brandish a MANPAD in
Turkish waters: it gives the Turks all sorts of propaganda and diplomatic gold and it is literally a worthless military gesture.

Well, evolution is a spotty at best theory as well. Noticed how we are now apparently considered a subspecies next to neandrathals compared to being evolved from them in previous theory?  But that topic is for another discussion and it is far more boring than this!

I for some reason am getting a terrible sense of Deja Vu with this photo. I swear I have seen a very similar photo to this posted years ago on mp.net and possibly here as well.  So it could very well be a fake.  It also seems shooped to me too.

ult wrote:Why don't all of you "it's real" believers justify why Russian naval officers would be such retards as to have a sailor wave around a MANPAD while traversing Turkish waters.   What possible military or political justification would they have for this?   I have not seen
any of you lot provide anything close to an argument.   All you do is bleat that "it's real".    Whatever, it's like arguing with fundies
about evolution.

Α Manpad is no different than say a deck-mounted 50 cal or a Rh202 with the sailors manning them during innocent passage.
They are fine to be on your ships as long as they are not aimed/activated.

PS. whether that's shopped or not that not something I'm qualified to answer. But imo it would make little difference.

kvs wrote:Your statement is a non sequitur.   Why does this "black widow sailor" need to have the MANPAD in his hands in the first place?
Whether it is aimed or not is irrelevant.   It serves zero purpose for Russia to have one of its sailors brandish a MANPAD in
Turkish waters: it gives the Turks all sorts of propaganda and diplomatic gold and it is literally a worthless military gesture.

US Navy ships esp prior to Suez enlargement had the habit of manning all sorts of MGs, etc. while passing through.
I would understand the RuN to decide on extra insurance policy when their ships pass through the world capital of Chechen terrorism and MB.

ult wrote: manpad just in case.

It's a Ropucha... It's supposed to have much better CIWS than a guy with a Igla on the top deck...

If it's procedure, fine, if he did it on his own he's retarded.

IF that pic is even real.

KiloGolf wrote:
US Navy ships esp prior to Suez enlargement had the habit of manning all sorts of MGs, etc. while passing through.

True even today it happens, I saw French Mistral put even vehicles on the flight deck to fortify it. edit: https://imgur.com/8WwIaJ7

But then again most NATO warships often lack close-in firepower, while Russian ones don't (and Russian Marines manning MGs on the ships in not so secure ports/waters is also a common sight, it's procedure).

PapaDragon wrote:
More about Shayrat (Homs) and Tiyas (Palmyra) airbases:

http://u-96.livejournal.com/4605569.html

AND PLEASE STOP RANTING ABOUT THAT DUDE WITH MANPADS ALREADY, YOU ARE CLOGGING THE TREAD!!!

Yandex translate. My highlight, so not another S-400 site

Aviation aerospace defence forces of Russia participating in operations in Syria, uses for departures two airport, in addition to the main Hamim airbase in Latakia. About it reports "Kommersant" with reference to sources in the defense Ministry.

According to the publication, as airfields jump (aerodromes intended for short-term Parking for refueling and repair of aircraft — approx. "The tape.ru"), ATT use base Shirt in the province of HOMS and al-Ties in Palmyra. From the airport al-Tias aviation easier to support the Syrian army during the offensive in Deir-ez-Zor. Base Shirt, in turn, is used to support offensive the Syrian troops in HOMS province.

As stated by the interlocutors of the edition, the Russian military allowed if you want to use any of the Syrian infrastructure. However, they noted that while in the new bases is not planned to accommodate more forces and means, including anti-aircraft missiles. With air cover for the airfields air defense system, deployed at the main airbase Hamim.

On November 17, the military has shown to the President of Russia Vladimir Putin the card on which near the base Shirt the marked position of the 5th howitzer artillery battery of 120-th guards artillery brigade of the Russian army deployed in the district from November 6. In addition, according to the map, at the airport Chirat are four attack helicopters Mi-24 and one transport Mi-8 helicopter, their identity is not established.

November 30, the Kuwaiti newspaper Al-Rai reported that Russia is preparing to deploy forces to the second military base in Syria — at the airport Chirat, located near HOMS. As the author points out, the airfield has the three-kilometer primary runway, allowing to accept aircrafts of any type, as well as a spare band.

As the correspondent "Tapes.ru" a source in Russian power structures, using shirt the need for the development of operations in the South and East of Syria. "For the offensive in the Palmyra area and further East, in Deir-ez-Zor, Hamim already quite far away, especially for actions of attack aircraft and helicopters, for which, in addition to range, a significant role is played by the speed of hit targets on the battlefield and in the rear middle," he said. According to him, earlier, the Russian HQs have already used Shayrat airport as a transit hub.

Press Secretary of the President of Russia Dmitry Peskov on 4 December refused to comment on a new basis.

Russia launched an air operation in Syria on September 30. It is provided by the air group deployed on the basis Hamim. Soldiers strike blows to positions of the banned in Russia terrorist groups "Islamic state" and "jabhat al-al-Nusra".

kvs wrote:Sure thing there, no lighting gradients on the "black widow sailor" whatsoever but the hands are visible and the tip of the "MANPAD" is illuminated.
You are engaged in proof by assertion, while I see obvious photoshop artifacts.   Lighting is the most difficult aspect to fake and for a good
reason since it requires a 3D model with ray tracing to get right.  

Why don't all of you "it's real" believers justify why Russian naval officers would be such retards as to have a sailor wave around a
MANPAD while traversing Turkish waters.   What possible military or political justification would they have for this?   I have not seen
any of you lot provide anything close to an argument.   All you do is bleat that "it's real".    Whatever, it's like arguing with fundies
about evolution.  

You are ridiculous. I don't have time to argue with you. I'm telling you that the photo is real. If you don't want to believe it - whatever, I don't care. I don't even need a picture to tell you that it has happened. And don't even start with 3d, wanna bet who is between the two of us is better at it?

I'm Russian, half of my family is/was in the army, and when you start talking about "military or political justification" it only shows that you don't know shit about Russia or Russian army.

No one in Russia gives a flying f**k. Waving the manpad isn't retarded. The political leadership will only give those guys a thumbs up. The only reason why Russia is freely travelling turkish waters is because they lost wars. So the only thing they can do is post angry rants in twitter. I thought it was obvious to everyone from Putin's words that Russia goes for escalation, and won't back down. I guess not.

Apparently There is still 600,000 Russian citizens that are traveling to Turkey
as tourist. Can anyone explain me whats wrong with the Russian citizens..?
do they know their country Russia is close to a war with turkey and that if anything happens
they will be a target of the Erdogan regime and used as human shields in case Turkey start another aggression and Russia retaliates?


http://tass.ru/en/economy/841968

The world is on the brink of a major conflict with Turkey and Russian citizens should be preparing for a war.. and not the time for tourism and even less to travel to the country most likely Russia will need to fight.

Vann7 wrote:


Apparently There is still 600,000 Russian citizens that are traveling to Turkey
as tourist. Can anyone explain me whats wrong with the Russian citizens..?
do they know their country Russia is close to a war with turkey and that if anything happens
they will be a target of Turkey and used as human shields in case Turkey start another aggression and Russia retaliates?

http://tass.ru/en/economy/841968

The world is on the brink of world war 3 and Russian citizens should be preparing for a war..
and is not the time for tourism and even less to the country most likely Russia will need to fight.

Ahahaha funny that this came up. Kids and people these days dont care. 90% people dont care at all :DD We live in such amazing times.

Vann7 wrote:Apparently There is still 600,000 Russian citizens that are traveling to Turkey
as tourist. Can anyone explain me whats wrong with the Russian citizens..?
do they know their country Russia is close to a war with turkey and that if anything happens
they will be a target of the Erdogan regime and used as human shields in case Turkey start another aggression and Russia retaliates?


http://tass.ru/en/economy/841968

The world is on the brink of a major conflict with Turkey and Russian citizens should be preparing for a war.. and not the time for tourism and even less to travel to the country most likely Russia will need to fight.

It's offseason right now. There are a couple thousand Russians there right now, not 600 000. What will happen in the future is debatable.

ult wrote:

kvs wrote:Sure thing there, no lighting gradients on the "black widow sailor" whatsoever but the hands are visible and the tip of the "MANPAD" is illuminated.
You are engaged in proof by assertion, while I see obvious photoshop artifacts.   Lighting is the most difficult aspect to fake and for a good
reason since it requires a 3D model with ray tracing to get right.  

Why don't all of you "it's real" believers justify why Russian naval officers would be such retards as to have a sailor wave around a
MANPAD while traversing Turkish waters.   What possible military or political justification would they have for this?   I have not seen
any of you lot provide anything close to an argument.   All you do is bleat that "it's real".    Whatever, it's like arguing with fundies
about evolution.  

You are ridiculous. I don't have time to argue with you. I'm telling you that the photo is real. If you don't want to believe it - whatever, I don't care. I don't even need a picture to tell you that it has happened. And don't even start with 3d, wanna bet who is between the two of us is better at it?

I'm Russian, half of my family is/was in the army, and when you start talking about "military or political justification" it only shows that you don't know shit about Russia or Russian army.

No one in Russia gives a flying f**k. Waving the manpad isn't retarded. The political leadership will only give those guys a thumbs up. The only reason why Russia is freely travelling turkish waters is because they lost wars. So the only thing they can do is post angry rants in twitter. I thought it was obvious to everyone from Putin's words that Russia goes for escalation, and won't back down. I guess not.

Its a fake. But Russia is just trolling Turkey HARD by saying - yeah that happened. Turkey walked right into it lol.

Also about 'no new forces' at these bases - New forces include the 200 new VKS assets or anything apart from the 200 VKS assets ?? Or is it just temporary ?