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    Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:30 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:...........
    They can the problem is they slow down other progress because now they have to use those facilities for dual purpose they never intended so they are now expecting those places to do double the work which is going to cause time delays.

    Then they better get their butts into gear then, if they want surface navy they can't afford slacking off
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:31 pm

    hoom wrote:
    Assuming you did see 10 no offense its really hard to tell a floating dock from other things via google earth which isn't reliable at all.
    Are you censored serious?  Neutral

    They are way to small also.
    Too small for K & PtG no question but there are a bunch of other, smaller ships in the fleet.

    On google earth being unreliable? yes because it's not.

    hoom

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  hoom on Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:54 pm

    On google earth being unreliable? yes because it's not.
    Its plenty reliable to tell the difference between a floating dock and anything else since nothing else looks anything like a floating dock

    On the bright side PR wise NATO now has their own major embarrassment...
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:57 pm

    hoom wrote:
    On google earth being unreliable? yes because it's not.
    Its plenty reliable to tell the difference between a floating dock and anything else since nothing else looks anything like a floating dock

    On the bright side PR wise NATO now has their own major embarrassment...


    How the hell did they do this?


    That being said, someone else's f***ups do not excuse Russia's. Problem did not go away.

    hoom

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  hoom on Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:14 pm

    Ran into an oil tanker on the way in/out of port, grounded to prevent sinking.
    Point is fuckups happen to everyone & aren't exclusive to Russia.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  GarryB on Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:36 pm

    But the whining butt hurt is...

    They have another large floating dock with the Pacific fleet... and worst case scenario they could always get someone else to make a couple of them for them... Sweden and Finland have made them for them in the past, but certainly China or South Korea could easily make them some.

    They already use cranes made in China anyway.
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    Hole

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Hole on Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:41 pm

    The one in Wladiwostok was build by Japan.
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  JohninMK on Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:51 pm

    hoom wrote:Ran into an oil tanker on the way in/out of port, grounded to prevent sinking.
    Point is fuckups happen to everyone & aren't exclusive to Russia.
    Its O/T here but its quite interesting so I'll start a discussion on it in the right place

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t7074-scandinavian-countries-militaries
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:29 am

    GarryB wrote:They have another large floating dock with the Pacific fleet... and worst case scenario they could always get someone else to make a couple of them for them... Sweden and Finland have made them for them in the past, but certainly China or South Korea could easily make them some.
    True, but in the long run they better build more dry docks on land to spend &/ save $ inside the country instead & insure against this type of accidents in the future. If they don't, in a few decades they'll need to be replaced & this cycle will repeat!
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:44 am

    GarryB wrote:But the whining butt hurt is...

    They have another large floating dock with the Pacific fleet... and worst case scenario they could always get someone else to make a couple of them for them... Sweden and Finland have made them for them in the past, but certainly China or South Korea could easily make them some.

    They already use cranes made in China anyway.

    not at the size of PD-50
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:45 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    hoom wrote:
    On google earth being unreliable? yes because it's not.
    Its plenty reliable to tell the difference between a floating dock and anything else since nothing else looks anything like a floating dock

    On the bright side PR wise NATO now has their own major embarrassment...


    How the hell did they do this?


    That being said, someone else's f***ups do not excuse Russia's. Problem did not go away.  

    Well there is no excuse for that, I don't even know how they managed that one

    and yes to that second part
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  JohninMK on Sun Nov 11, 2018 11:15 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Well there is no excuse for that, I don't even know how they managed that one
    I have a theory in the other thread

    http://www.russiadefence.net/t7074-scandinavian-countries-militaries


    EDIT

    Now updated. Definite end of career for some.
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  JohninMK on Sun Nov 11, 2018 6:25 pm

    Norwegian frigate captain asleep in bunk, duty officer 26 years old and 12 months out of training, frigate sinking lower in the water.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:41 pm

    The new civilian owners didn't follow the same procedures on Diesel generators as the VMF, resulting in drydock sinking:
    https://zen.yandex.ru/media/amico/balbesy-i-flot-chast-2ia-utopili-plavuchii-dok-5be8423cf9cb6200acec8f38?&from=feed

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  mnztr on Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:31 pm

    How deep is PD-50 sunk? I assume its not super deep, so I am wondering why its such a huge task to refloat it. Can they not just pump compressed air into the ballasts in a coordinated manner and float it that way? Barring that, use a bunch of flotation bags to pull flush with the surface, then pump out the tanks? Was this incompetence or sabotage?
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:42 pm

    mnztr wrote:How deep is PD-50 sunk? I assume its not super deep, so I am wondering why its such a huge task to refloat it. Can they not just pump compressed air into the ballasts in a coordinated manner and float it that way? Barring that, use a bunch of flotation bags to pull flush with the surface, then pump out the tanks? Was this incompetence or sabotage?


    It's wrecked, it's ancient, it's a goner
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    JohninMK

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  JohninMK on Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:50 pm

    mnztr wrote:How deep is PD-50 sunk? I assume its not super deep, so I am wondering why its such a huge task to refloat it. Can they not just pump compressed air into the ballasts in a coordinated manner and float it that way? Barring that, use a bunch of flotation bags to pull flush with the surface, then pump out the tanks? Was this incompetence or sabotage?

    We don't know what the seabed is like there other than its probably rocky. Potentially speared by a rock combined with a potentially damaging unbalanced sinking could have rendered it scrap. Add to that the seawater damage to anything attached to the 'hull' would finish it off. Might be recovered for scrap or to remove as a hazard.

    mnztr

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  mnztr on Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:56 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:


    It's wrecked, it's ancient, it's a goner


    based on what? It really depends on how deep it is there, what the sea floor is like etc etc. If its really deep and sea floor is uneven, then yeah, it will be trashed for sure. I am reading the depth at the anchorage is less then 75 feet, so they will have to remove it anyway. you cannot leave it there. So they may as well try to salvage it. Its under study, and indications are they will probably raise it:

    http://tass.com/defense/1028625

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  mnztr on Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:59 pm

    Plus PD-50 is a modular dock, they can actually raise it in sections after some underwater cutting.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:46 am

    mnztr wrote:Plus PD-50 is a modular dock, they can actually raise it in sections after some underwater cutting.

    Getting new one from China will take less time than fixing this one (not that there is anything left to fix, that thing is old as hell)

    Besides, how long do you think it would take Russian shipbuilding "experts" to carry out that little project? Decade at least given their track record....

    hoom

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  hoom on Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:32 am

    They say about 30m deep, sloped side of the fjord goes down to 100m & possibly hasn't slid deeper primarily because of the anchors.
    Divers said its got multiple cracks, I think its pretty poked.

    mnztr

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  mnztr on Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:37 am

    hoom wrote:They say about 30m deep, sloped side of the fjord goes down to 100m & possibly hasn't slid deeper primarily because of the anchors.
    Divers said its got multiple cracks, I think its pretty poked.

    Cracks can be welded, they will have to remove it anyway, its way to big to just leave there in 30M water so they may as well take a whack at salvaging it.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:15 am


    Yes, it is too big to leave it there, that's why they'll have to scrap it
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:56 am

    Or they could blow it up or use tugs to drag it to deeper water.
    But I think if it can't be salvaged & repaired, at least some of it may be used to construct a new dock.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  GarryB on Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:49 pm

    True, but in the long run they better build more dry docks on land to spend &/ save $ inside the country instead & insure against this type of accidents in the future. If they don't, in a few decades they'll need to be replaced & this cycle will repeat!

    Floating docks are much easier and cheaper and can be moved around when needed.





    not at the size of PD-50

    According to this article:

    https://russia-insider.com/en/russias-only-aircraft-carrier-damaged-when-dock-sinks-crane-punches-huge-hole-ship/ri25242

    Specifically:
    There is an alternative large dry dock in Russia’s far east, PD-41, which services the Pacific Fleet and was originally built by Japan. PD-41 has similar characteristics to PD-50 and may prove Kuznetsov’s only possible alternative once the ship is ready to make the journey.

    There is the PD-41.

    How deep is PD-50 sunk? I assume its not super deep, so I am wondering why its such a huge task to refloat it.

    It is not about depth... it is a very weak unsupported structure... difficult to raise with the risk of it breaking apart.

    Was this incompetence or sabotage?

    Suspect it was greed... take over ownership and immediately save money by selling off the fuel reserved for the onboard power systems because the land connection will keep it powered...

    Besides, how long do you think it would take Russian shipbuilding "experts" to carry out that little project? Decade at least given their track record....

    Well if they can't make anything why bother... they don't do anything so they don't need anything right? Rolling Eyes

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