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    INS Vikramaditya (ex-Admiral Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

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    Vladimir79
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    INS Vikramaditya (ex-Admiral Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:04 am

    India is prepared to pay $2.2 billion for Gorshkov aircraft carrier

    13.07.2009

    India hold naval exercises in the Barents Sea. Planned for 2011-2012 exercises will be held on the deck of upgraded aircraft carrier "Admiral Gorshkov (Vikramaditya). Also on July 8 in New Delhi was determined by the final price for the transfer of aircraft carrier the Indian side.

    At the present time on the stocks' Sevmash in Severodvinsk is carried out repair and upgrade the aircraft carrier "Admiral Gorshkov" to the naval forces of India. BarentsObserver.com As reported last week, the president of Russia Dmitry Medvedev during his visit, expressed his dissatisfaction with the progress of works at the shipyard on the shore White Sea. As IA REGNUM News, under a contract signed in 2004, aircraft carrier was to be sold to the navy of India for 617 million U.S. dollars. But for a professional repair ship cost more than $ 2 billion. Therefore, the Russian the party appealed to the Indian Navy with a proposal to increase the contract price. July 8, representatives of India and Russia met in this Wednesday in New Delhi to determine the final cost of the work. In the course of the negotiations was a final, fixed price, which the Indian side will pay "Sevmash - 2, 2 billion U.S. dollars., reported The Times of India.

    Mainly exercises will take place in the Barents Sea, in addition, Indian pilots will practice takeoffs and landings of fighter aircraft MiG-29K deck aircraft carrier "Admiral Kuznetsov", part of the exercises will take place in Indian waters, in order to reduce costs. How to write the newspaper, on Wednesday, Defense Minister of India AK Antony told the Indian Parliament that the transfer of aircraft carrier the Indian side is expected in December 2012.
    10.07.2009

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    Re: INS Vikramaditya (ex-Admiral Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

    Post  Vladislav on Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:33 am

    ha... the Indians were whining for ages they weren't going to pay it. Looks like they can't go without a carrier.

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    Re: INS Vikramaditya (ex-Admiral Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

    Post  Turk1 on Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:38 am

    Why would they pay 2.2 bl for Soviet rust bucket? They have their own carrier program better than Russian junks.

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    Re: INS Vikramaditya (ex-Admiral Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

    Post  Vladislav on Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:34 pm

    Turk1 wrote:Why would they pay 2.2 bl for Soviet rust bucket? They have their own carrier program better than Russian junks.

    Because they need it like yesterday. INS Varat is the rusting junk. Gorshkov will be completely refit and modernized so it will be good for another 30 years. Not so bad a buy considering the cost of carriers.

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    Re: INS Vikramaditya (ex-Admiral Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

    Post  Vladimir79 on Mon Jul 20, 2009 8:51 pm

    Vladislav wrote:

    Because they need it like yesterday. INS Varat is the rusting junk. Gorshkov will be completely refit and modernized so it will be good for another 30 years. Not so bad a buy considering the cost of carriers.

    It doesn't look good to only charge double the original estimate. I am sure relations are going to suffer for this... like MRCA. affraid

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    Navy chief defends price paid for Admiral Gorshkov

    Post  RuStepan on Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:26 pm

    Under attack from CAG for the escalating cost of second-hand aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov bought from Russia, Navy Chief Admiral Sureesh Mehta on Thursday defended the price being paid by India for the warship.

    "I can't comment on the CAG. But you all are defence analysts, can you get me an aircraft carrier for less than USD two billion? If you can, I am going to sign a cheque right now," Mehta told reporters on the sidelines of the 'Naval Self Reliance Seminar' organised by CII.

    When asked about CAG's finding that the Navy had not done its risk analysis before going in for the ship, he said, " I can ensure you that there is no such thing. There is no question, we have been looking at the ship since late 90's.

    "From the time I know that we have been talking and finally in 2004, when the deal was done after two-three years of negotiations, it was done in extreme seriousness and there is no question of any laxity."

    Asked if the Navy was satisfied with the services and support provided by Russian Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEMs), Mehta said that they have to reach the OEMs through agencies and the agency sometimes might not give the job to best suited manufacturer or yard.

    "So, we have a little issue with that. But we have lived with it for many years and the ships have done quite well," he said.

    On increasing the range of K-15 missiles to be equipped on the nuclear submarine INS Arihant, Mehta said," All this will happen in a due course of time."

    Commenting on a query about the under-performance of the naval anti-ship missiles, Mehta said, "Sea eagle missile is an ancient missile and we don't rely on it. With more indigenous capability coming in, most of these are being brought into our platforms. Whatever we have got in our inventory, they are perfectly fine missiles and with 100 per cent insurance of hits."

    "By 2022, under our Maritime Capability Perspective Plan (MCPP), Indian Navy hopes to become a versatile three-dimensional force with over 160 ships including three aircraft carrier and submarines, more than 300 aircraft and satellite-based surveillance as well as net centric operations to provide force multiplication," he said.

    The navy chief said that the Navy had also prepared a 'Science and Technology Roadmap-2025' for developing indigenous technology for naval applications.

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    Re: INS Vikramaditya (ex-Admiral Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

    Post  Turk1 on Fri Jul 31, 2009 1:52 am

    It was a bad decision to even look at Russian junk ships. Now look at what it has cost them. By the time they get it the service life will be close to ended.

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    Re: Navy chief defends price paid for Admiral Gorshkov

    Post  RuStepan on Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:31 pm

    India as every major nation wanted always to have an aircraft carrier. But no one except from Russia was willing to give them one. So they had no option but to buy it from Russia for the price of 1.5 billion dollars plus 750 million dollars for refurbishment and modernizing. But Russia had only little experience with aircraft carriers so they underestimated the work needed to be done resulting to the fact that they need more time and India must pay more if it wants to receive it.
    If Nato nations impose an ebmargo to a country, than this country has no other choice but to buy military hardware from someone who is willing and able to deliver them want they want. 99 PER CENT of the time it is Russia who this isolated countries turn to.

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    Re: INS Vikramaditya (ex-Admiral Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

    Post  Turk1 on Sat Aug 01, 2009 5:13 am

    RuStepan wrote:India as every major nation wanted always to have an aircraft carrier. But no one except from Russia was willing to give them one. So they had no option but to buy it from Russia for the price of 1.5 billion dollars plus 750 million dollars for refurbishment and modernizing. But Russia had only little experience with aircraft carriers so they underestimated the work needed to be done resulting to the fact that they need more time and India must pay more if it wants to receive it.
    If Nato nations impose an ebmargo to a country, than this country has no other choice but to buy military hardware from someone who is willing and able to deliver them want they want. 99 PER CENT of the time it is Russia who this isolated countries turn to.

    India can by whatever it wants under no embargo now. They just bought USS Trenton and they could have bought USS Kitty Hawk which would have been better buy than Russian junk.

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    Re: INS Vikramaditya (ex-Admiral Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

    Post  Vladislav on Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:17 am

    Turk1 wrote:
    RuStepan wrote:India as every major nation wanted always to have an aircraft carrier. But no one except from Russia was willing to give them one. So they had no option but to buy it from Russia for the price of 1.5 billion dollars plus 750 million dollars for refurbishment and modernizing. But Russia had only little experience with aircraft carriers so they underestimated the work needed to be done resulting to the fact that they need more time and India must pay more if it wants to receive it.
    If Nato nations impose an ebmargo to a country, than this country has no other choice but to buy military hardware from someone who is willing and able to deliver them want they want. 99 PER CENT of the time it is Russia who this isolated countries turn to.

    India can by whatever it wants under no embargo now. They just bought USS Trenton and they could have bought USS Kitty Hawk which would have been better buy than Russian junk.

    India could not buy the Kitty Hawk as the US is not going to sell a nuclear powered ship. If the Indians had not dragged their feet for 10 years b4 the initial deal, they could have had this carrier already and for a cheaper price. Them waiting so long requires more work. It is still the quickest and cheapest option available. I don't see too many sea worthy carriers on the open market.

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    Re: INS Vikramaditya (ex-Admiral Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

    Post  Vladimir79 on Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:21 pm

    In the near future, India can provide additional $ 1.2 billion to modernize the aircraft carrier "Admiral Gorshkov"
    06.08.2009

    The question of additional financing contract for the renovation and upgrading of heavy aircraft cruiser "Admiral Gorshkov" can be resolved positively in the near future, told Interfax-AVN "on Wednesday, a source close to negotiations. "We expect that the upcoming talks in August would be a final agreement with Indian partners for an additional allocation of 1.2 billion dollars for the repair and modernization of the aircraft carrier" Admiral Gorshkov ", - said the agency interlocutor. According to him, confident in the success of the negotiations gives statement Assistant Minister of Defense of India Palamas Raji (Pallam Raji) Delhi's readiness to consider the proposals of Russia to increase the value of the contract.

    http://www.interfax.ru/

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    Re: INS Vikramaditya (ex-Admiral Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

    Post  Vladislav on Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:39 pm

    Good thing they are going to pay. The last thing we need is this relict.

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    Re: INS Vikramaditya (ex-Admiral Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri Aug 07, 2009 5:32 am

    Vladislav wrote:Good thing they are going to pay. The last thing we need is this relict.

    Nothing wrong with this relikt. Carriers have a long shelf life and it didn't see very much action. Gorshkov will give the Indians a good 30 years of operational use which is not a bad deal to get a full compliment of MiG-29KUB plus a carrier for 2.2b. A US carrier costs well over $5 billion and that doesn't include aerocraft. India really has no choice since there are no other carriers to buy.

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    India added 122 million dollars to modernize Admiral Gorshkov

    Post  Vladimir79 on Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:39 pm

    India added 122 million dollars to modernize Admiral Gorshkov
    19.08.2009

    MOSCOW, August 18. (ARMS-TASS). India added 122 million dollars to continue the modernization TACRO "Admiral Gorshkov" (in the aircraft carrier "Vikramaditya") to finalize the cost of delivery of the ship, said the Indian Economy Times. Funding was authorized by the Government earlier this month.

    The original contract, signed on 29 January 2004, an allocation for the rehabilitation and modernization of the Admiral Gorshkov "974 million USD. Planned aircraft carrier that will go down in battle of the Navy of India by 15 August 2008, but due to various technical problems, deadlines were postponed for more than four years - in 2012. Paid out nearly 500 million dollars, from January 2007, India has suspended further payments under the contract. In November 2007, the Russian side raised the issue of underestimation of the work. As a result of the revaluation of the total contract value increased to 2.9 billion USD, which is three times higher than the price originally agreed upon by the parties.

    India has in principle agreed to the revision of the original agreement, but the lengthy negotiations on the amount of cost increases at various levels have not led to the desired result. The Indian side hopes that Moscow will be ready to compromise and reduce the required maximum price, but the Russian delegation insisted that the requested cost of reconstruction and testing of ship holds.

    In early June this year, India has provided an additional "Sevmash" 102 million dollars for the modernization of the cruiser, increasing thus the amount of payments to 602 million USD.

    To date negotiations on the definition of the final cost of the aircraft carrier continues. Responding to questions of parliamentarians at the end of July, India's Defense Minister AK Antony said that the parties have not reached agreement on the price of the supply of aircraft carrier. The situation was exacerbated report of Controller-General of the Indian CAG (Comptroller and Auditor General), which states that the cost of the upgraded aircraft carrier can be 60% higher than the price of a new ship. Furthermore, the supervisory authority caused the postponement of delivery of 4 years, as well as the fact that the ship will be handed over to Indian Navy with a complex air defense equipment, which can be installed the next time repairing the aircraft carrier did not earlier in 2017.

    According to Indian analysts, India's Navy is likely to be forced to agree to an increase in cost because of labor already expended considerable funds, and alternative sources of ready-built aircraft carrier available. The only Indian Navy aircraft carrier "Viraat" (the former British light aircraft carrier Hermes built 1959), for the replacement of which was purchased "Admiral Gorshkov" is almost entirely worn out and developed in 2012 should be written off. Despite the fact that India is beginning to shipyards "Kochi shipyard Ltd build a national aircraft carrier, he will be able to join the Navy earlier than 2014-2015 years. At the same time to assess the defense departments of the country, armed with the Navy countries must be at least five aircraft carriers.

    It should be noted that in 2004 signed an agreement for the supply of concomitant deck 16 MiG-29K, which will be based on board the "Admiral Gorshkov" is implemented successfully. The contract worth 740 million dollars for the supply of 4 double-29KUB aircraft MiG 12 and MiG-29K single. 4 The first fighter is scheduled to deliver before the end of the year. Their places of temporary dislocation of selected air Hanza.

    Moreover, considering the additional purchase of MiG-29K. A decision on their purchase will be made after approval by the Government.

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    Re: INS Vikramaditya (ex-Admiral Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

    Post  Russian Patriot on Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:22 pm

    Russia, India to sign new deal on Admiral Gorshkov overhaul
    RIA Novosti

    15:11 03/09/2009 MOSCOW, September 3 (RIA Novosti) - A new deal on the funds Russia needs to finish a refit of the Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier for India will be signed in mid-October, the head of the state technology corporation said on Thursday.

    "An additional agreement will be signed," Sergei Chemezov, head of Rostekhnologii, told a news conference in Moscow.

    Under the original $1.5 billion 2004 contract between Russia's state-run arms exporter Rosoboronexport and the Indian Navy, which includes delivery of MiG-29K Fulcrum carrier-based fighters, the work on the aircraft carrier was to have been completed in 2008.

    However, Russia later claimed it had underestimated the scale and the cost of the modernization, and asked for an additional $1.2 billion, which New Delhi said was "exorbitant."

    After long-running delays and disputes, India offered in February 2008 to raise the refit costs for the aircraft carrier, docked at the Sevmash shipyard in northern Russia for the past 12 years, by up to $600 million.

    Russia said it was not satisfied with the proposed amount and the issue of the additional funding remains unresolved.

    Talks on the additional funding agreement are currently underway. Russia has pledged to finish the Admiral Gorshkov's overhaul as soon as possible and deliver it to India in 2012 if the additional $1.2 bln funding is provided by New Delhi.

    According to Russian media, India has no alternative but to allocate the required funds, despite recent objections from the government's accounting office, because the Indian Navy desperately needs to replace its INS Viraat, which, although currently operational, is now 50 years old.

    After modernization, the carrier will join the Indian Navy as INS Vikramaditya, and is expected to be seaworthy for 30 years.

    Admiral Gorshkov is a modified Kiev class aircraft carrier, originally named Baku.

    The ship was laid down in 1978 at the Nikolayev South shipyard in Ukraine, launched in 1982, and commissioned with the Soviet Navy in 1987.

    It was renamed after the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991.

    In 1994, following a boiler room explosion, the Admiral Gorshkov sat in dock for a year for repairs. After a brief return to service in 1995, it was finally withdrawn from service in 1996 and put up for sale.

    The ship's displacement is 45,000 tons. It has maximum speed of 32 knots and an endurance of 13,500 nautical miles (25,000 km) at a cruising speed of 18 knots.




    http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2009/09/mil-090903-rianovosti04.htm

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    Re: INS Vikramaditya (ex-Admiral Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

    Post  f-insas on Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:18 pm

    RuStepan wrote:India as every major nation wanted always to have an aircraft carrier. But no one except from Russia was willing to give them one. So they had no option but to buy it from Russia for the price of 1.5 billion dollars plus 750 million dollars for refurbishment and modernizing. But Russia had only little experience with aircraft carriers so they underestimated the work needed to be done resulting to the fact that they need more time and India must pay more if it wants to receive it.
    If Nato nations impose an ebmargo to a country, than this country has no other choice but to buy military hardware from someone who is willing and able to deliver them want they want. 99 PER CENT of the time it is Russia who this isolated countries turn to.
    nato impose sanction on india ,when ,please dont post rubbish urs nato friend france,,uk and us all are selling many arms to india ,i have to really say begging,urs country jermany lagging behind ,urs cancellor recently come india and want to make close defence relation ship with us ,so grow up man What a Face


    Last edited by f-insas on Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:19 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : m)

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    Re: INS Vikramaditya (ex-Admiral Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

    Post  Russian Patriot on Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:27 pm

    A Russian aircraft carrier which is being refurbished for the Indian Navy will begin sea trials in May for the first time in two decades and is to be handed over to India by December 2012, a shipyard official said on Tuesday.

    The purchase of the Soviet-built Admiral Gorshkov was agreed in 2004 with delivery initially due for 2008. The delivery date slipped on numerous occasions and the final price for the ship has more than doubled.

    The cost of refurbishing Gorshkov, to be renamed INS Vikramaditya, has gone up from $947 million to $2.3 billion.

    “The vessel is expected to undertake sea trials at the end of May,” Sergei Novosyolov, deputy director of the Sevmash shipyard in the far northern port of Severodvinsk, which is refitting the 45,000-ton ship which Russia took out of service in 1992.

    Russia is one of India’s largest suppliers of military hardware.

    Ninety-six Indian specialists are currently being trained to operate the ship, Novosyolov said, adding that the final number of those to be trained is 1,401.

    Last week, a Russian military source said Russia would hand over the nuclear-powered Nerpa submarine to India by the end of the month.

    http://www.en.ria.ru/mlitary_news/20120117/170799379.html


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    Re: INS Vikramaditya (ex-Admiral Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

    Post  TheArmenian on Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:47 pm

    ^^^^^ Cough, cough....wrong Gorshkov.

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    Carrier Ready for India After Eight Year Wait

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:54 am

    More important factually inaccurate on several counts.

    The purchase of the Soviet-built Admiral Gorshkov was agreed in 2004 with delivery initially due for 2008. The delivery date slipped on numerous occasions and the final price for the ship has more than doubled.

    First of all the offer for sale was made in 1997, and it took till 2004 to sign the deal.

    After cracking the vessel open and having a proper look they found that the piping and wiring needed replacing, which explains the extra time and cost.

    The cost of refurbishing Gorshkov, to be renamed INS Vikramaditya, has gone up from $947 million to $2.3 billion.

    $947 million was the cost of the vessel and upgrade itself, the initial cost was something like $1.6 billion including the air wing or Mig-29K fighters and Kamov helicopters including AEW, SAR, and other models.

    After cracking open the hull and finding the wiring and piping needed replacing the price went up once from 1.6 billion to 2.3 billion.

    Deduct the cost of the airwing and they are getting a carrier for about 1.6 billion, which is actually incredibly cheap.

    It certainly took a while, but if it was urgent then perhaps taking from 1997 to 2004 to decide to committing to buy it was half the problem.

    If they had taken 2 years it likely could have been built in far less time at far less cost as the 2006- now period the price of materials has greatly increased, not to mention various financial problems around the place.


    The last three posts should be split off and moved to its own thread...

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    Re: INS Vikramaditya (ex-Admiral Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

    Post  Austin on Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:34 am

    Russia should have kept the Groshkov for it self that would have given her 2 carrier fleet and India should have made one for her self.

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    Re: INS Vikramaditya (ex-Admiral Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

    Post  George1 on Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:11 pm

    Austin wrote:Russia should have kept the Groshkov for it self that would have given her 2 carrier fleet and India should have made one for her self.

    Yes but the money should be given from russian state budget and not from india in that case Smile

    Lets see the positives, now the shipyard can be deal with the domestic orders (gorshkov claas frigates)

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    Re: INS Vikramaditya (ex-Admiral Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

    Post  Austin on Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:05 pm

    Ofcourse the money will come from Russia , $3 billion is not a big amount for Russia and for India it makes sense to build its own ship.

    Gorshkov deal has left too much of bad blood between the two , they were better off doing what i said.

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    Re: INS Vikramaditya (ex-Admiral Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

    Post  TR1 on Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:12 pm

    If it does good service the bad blood can be diluted. We are on the cusp of seeing it operating with MIG-29Ks onboard, can't wait for the sight.

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    Re: INS Vikramaditya (ex-Admiral Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

    Post  GarryB on Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:32 am

    They could have gotten it to you on time and on budget and it would have been a dog.

    The offer was pretty clear... you want a carrier quickly, we have a carrier, but it needs a bit of work to suit your needs.

    If they wanted a carrier quickly then why take almost 8 years to negotiate the contract?

    The original price of 1.6 billion was ridiculously cheap for a carrier AND its air wing. 2.3 billion including the air wing is a reasonable price.

    There was always plenty of risk modifying an existing vessel to a new use... especially if you are relying in using most of the existing internals in the final product.

    If they had just said that they need to upgrade everything and signed everything off in 1999 then they likely would have gotten the carrier for much less and much quicker.

    It seems that haggling for the best possible price drew the process out and led to production having to endure a change in the economic landscape, which in addition to unforseen problems has led to a price increase and a time delay.

    Lets put this in perspective however... the new carrier with 16 Mig-29K fighter aircraft plus a dozen or so helicopters... for the price of 4 C-17 medium transport aircraft... who is screwing whom?

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    Re: INS Vikramaditya (ex-Admiral Gorshkov) aircraft carrier

    Post  Austin on Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:27 am

    GarryB wrote:If they wanted a carrier quickly then why take almost 8 years to negotiate the contract?

    You dont understand the concept of quickly in India and the concept of time ,Do you ?

    Like if we need something very quickly it would take atleast 5 or more years.

    We needed the MMRCA quickly after Kargil war with Pakistan , it was an urgent need so its like 10 years since then and may be this January end we will hear who is the winner Rafale or Typhoon.

    We needed AJT since early 80's and we bought it in under 25 years in mid 2000

    We need the Mirage upgrade done quickly because of depleting fleet strength we negotiated in 6 years ( the joke is 50 Mirage 2000 upgrade cost $2.1 for aircraft and another $1.2 billion for 550 MICA missile , Mig-29 upgrade (Mig-29UPG) totaling 64 aircraft along with new RD-33 Series 3 engine for all aircraft in total cost $1.2 billion )

    We need Artillery 155 mm Gun urgently and its 15 years and negotiation

    We need Mig-21 replacement since mid 90's and LCA is still under user trial like 25 years and going strong

    I can go on and on

    So understand the Indian Concept of Time Laughing

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