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    Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:45 pm

    Floating docks are much easier and cheaper and can be moved around when needed.
    True, but if they don't sink, other docks won't need to be moved to replace them. PD-50 & PD-41 weren't moved far ever since their delivery AFAIK. So cheaper isn't= better.


    mnztr

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  mnztr on Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:10 pm

    Its modular so they can re float it piece by piece by doimg some.cutting. That way it won't snap
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    Hole

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Hole on Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:53 pm

    Another one.



    PD-190. Novorossyisk.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  GarryB on Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:59 am

    True, but if they don't sink, other docks won't need to be moved to replace them. PD-50 & PD-41 weren't moved far ever since their delivery AFAIK. So cheaper isn't= better.

    They have to sink to work... you can't just get a good run up with a 60,000 ton aircraft carrier and try to park it on one of these...

    You place supports on the bottom of it for the ship you want to work with to settle on and then you sink the dock and then move the ship into position and then raise the dock to support and then raise the ship out of the water.

    The fact that it is floating means you can move it anywhere there is water, so you can move it all round a port when ever it suits... this particular one was important because you could put more than one vessel on it because of its capacity for 80,000 tons you could get one Kuznetsov, but you could get a couple of submarines of any type or two Kirovs or a mix of vessels at one time.

    You could still move it while they were on it, though it was more for repair than for transportation.

    From what I have read the K was just about to be removed from the floating dock when the dock sank so it is likely the only problems caused would be damage from the falling crane which is generally described as being superficial and easy to repair...

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    Hole

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Hole on Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:02 am

    Official MoD release, yesterday.


    Admiral Kuznetsov has no significant damage caused by accident at floating deck

    The aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov's takeoff deck has not been significantly damaged by the fallen crane when the ship was leaving floating dry dock at the 82nd Repair Shipyard. As Deputy Defence Minister Alexey Krivoruchko stated at teleconference chaired by Deputy Defence Minister Ruslan Tsalikov.
    "As the ship arrived at the 35th Ship Repair Plant (a branch of the Zvezdochka Shipyard), a special commission was organized to assess the damage. According to the results of preliminary inspection the commission stated that the Admiral Kuznetsov has no significant damages", Alexey Krivoruchko explained.
    According to him, all measure to repair technical readiness of the ship are carried out in scheduled manner. Required updates have already been introduced into the roadmap and will not affect deadline under the contract."
    Earlier it had been reported that on October 30 as the PD-50 floating dock sunk during the planned exit of the heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser Admiral Kuznetsov, a crane №2 collapsed on a takeoff deck.
    Alexey Krivoruchko also stated that the Russian Defence Ministry signed a contract with the Zvezdochka Shipyard in 2018 within the State Defence Order to recover technical readiness with modernization works of the heavy aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov to be completed in forth quarter of 2022.
    At the same time, the Deputy Defence Minister noted that in the period from September 17 to October 30, the planned dock operations were performed in full at the 82nd Ship Repair Plant in Murmansk.
    Alexey Krivoruchko explained that “during the whole period of work on the ship, it is planned to replace and repair elements of the main power plant, upgrade the electric power system, radio equipment and air defence equipment, install and upgrade means ensuring the operation of an aircraft wing of the cruiser”.

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  hoom on Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:55 am

    K refit end date is rescheduled to end of 2022 (previously end of 2020), perhaps an indication of ETA for replacement/alternative
    https://www.korabel.ru/news/comments/admiral_kuznecov_budet_remontirovatsya_esche_chetyre_goda.html
    Repair of the heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser Admiral Kuznetsov is scheduled to be completed in the fourth quarter of 2022. About it reports Mil.Press FlotProm with reference to the Deputy Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation Alexei Krivoruchko.

    "In the framework of the fulfillment of the state defense order in 2018, the Ministry of Defense of Russia concluded a state contract with the joint stock company Zvezdochka Center for the restoration of technical readiness with separate modernization works of the heavy aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov with a date for completion of obligations under the contract in the fourth quarter of 2022 "- quoted by Interfax . Alexei Krivoruchko speech on a conference in the Defense Ministry

    on the ship will be improved with electricity Stem, and air defense weapons radio engineering. Also replace and improve the elements of the main power plant. Repair of the subject and means which provide wing operation.
    Apparently it had the screws off & will need a drydocking to get them back on.
    Possibly shafts absent too which gives some credence to unplanned but I should think its no big issue to have patched/blocked the hole for a planned withdrawal.


    PD-190. Novorossyisk.
    Among other things they're looking at possibility of moving it to Murmansk https://topwar.ru/149684-v-murmansk-mogut-perevesti-plavdok-pd-190-iz-novorossijska.html
    But its about the same age as PD-50 & apparently in pretty bad condition, it'd be pretty likely to sink in transition I think.
    (Edit: sounds like a minor miracle PD-190 hasn't sunk first)

    PPL at Balancer claiming to be locals of Murmansk hold with the claim that it was a planned withdrawal from the drydock, something went wrong, attempts were made to bring it under control but eventually when it went down it was very quick & with big noise probably from crane falling.

    Quite a bit of interest in how the crane managed to get where it landed, the base is normally well below the deck of K so there must have been quite a lot of heel on the dock with at least that corner raised quite high.
    It seems a very lucky that K has apparently come out largely undamaged, could easily have been a writeoff or outright sunk.

    Edit2: newer pics

    Something fenced off, maybe the hole in the deck?


    Kinda curious about how rusty the bow is, it was all fresh painted for the trip to Syria.
    Paint stripped back to metal or new panels put in?

    Edit3: back in 2016 there was a plan to expand/rework Zvezdochka basin to fit K for refit https://vpk.name/news/157029_pod_avianosec_admiral_kuznecov_postroyat_unikalnyii_dok.html
    Murmansk Ship Repair Plant - "35 SRZ" Zvezdochka Ship Repair Center JSC (part of the United Shipbuilding Corporation, USC) is starting preparations for the modernization of the only 1143 "Admiral Kuznetsov" heavy aircraft carrier in the Russian fleet. Valery Polovinkin, advisor to the general director of the Federal State Unitary Enterprise Krylov State Research Center (KGNTs), will conduct a unique operation at the plant to combine two dock chambers into one unit. This will create the country's largest aemy pool "in length 400 and a width of 80 meters, able to accept not only warships, but also civil court virtually any displacement.

    “Today, these chambers are separated by a concrete wall, on which are located multi-ton port cranes, other technological equipment necessary for the repair of ships,” Valery Polovinkin told Izvestia. - In addition, the docks have different lengths and widths. A roof can be built that will allow work to be conducted year-round. According to the plans, the wall will be demolished, the length of the docks is equalized to 400 m, a new mooring wall will be built with technological and port equipment. This solution will allow not only supplying the aircraft-carrying cruiser Admiral Kuznetsov for modernization, but also serving ships of any class. For example, nuclear-powered icebreakers of the type "Arctic" under construction at the Baltic plant. In terms of their dimensions, they do not belong to any dry dock in the region.
    Doesn't really make sense though, there's only 1 basin there & its nowhere near 400m long, only barely big enough for Ustinov refit.
    They'd have to extend the existing basin right across the rail grid area which would either put 2 of the existing sheds out of work or require some serious fenangling. Or extend it out into the bay.


    Side-point: I discovered that Zvezdochka & Severodvinsk basins work totally different than I thought.
    I previously assumed they're just really big drydocks but it always surprised me how high Nakhimov & Vikramaditya before it look in photos, figured its some kind of perspective trick or they haul the hull higher somehow but no, there are walls around the basins, they fill the basin way above groundlevel Cool
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:22 pm

    They have to sink to work...
    And now this 1 has sunk completely. In any case, it created more work & $ loss since it must be replaced/salvaged/repaired.
    They can be moved but that's not done often even inside the harbor;
    in the long run it's more feasible & was planned to have basins connected/dug up on shore:
    https://vpk.name/news/157029_pod_avianosec_admiral_kuznecov_postroyat_unikalnyii_dok.html

    mnztr

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  mnztr on Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:39 pm

    I am not sure why those clowns ran the dock in such deep water, they should have prepared and underwater platform so that there was no chance of the dock sinking.
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Big_Gazza on Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:56 pm

    Meanwhile... Norways new submarine makes its first descent.



    So funny....   thumbsup   NATOstani MFers...


    Last edited by Big_Gazza on Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Big_Gazza

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Big_Gazza on Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:13 pm

    Still laughing...  unrelated theme, but heck, when your enemies are flat on their face with a broken bottle shoved up their rears, its time to keep the mirth going...



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    Isos

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Isos on Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:51 pm

    Big_Gazza wrote:Meanwhile...  Norways new submarine makes its first descent.



    So funny....   thumbsup   NATOstani MFers...

    It detected a suspect russian sub ! Just checking the radars underwater to found those damn russians that penetrated international nato waters lol1 lol1 lol1

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  mnztr on Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:55 pm

    The NATO frigate will cost more then the entire repair for Kuznetsov plus about 5 new floating docks. Seriously that frigate is trashed, it will cost more to fix then to build a new one. Only reason to fix it is they cannot get govt to approve a new one so they will spend about 700M to fix a 500M ship
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:33 am

    Perhaps they could salvage & give/sell it to Taiwan "as is"- or just break it up for parts & scrap.
    That's what happens when u go close to Northern Russian neighborhood!

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  mnztr on Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:37 am

    Taiwan has a better and larger navy then Norway... some pretty advanced missiles as well
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:05 am

    If they could fix it up, still better than those ex-USN FFGs!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Hazard_Perry-class_frigate
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    GarryB

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  GarryB on Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:10 am

    Kinda curious about how rusty the bow is, it was all fresh painted for the trip to Syria.
    Paint stripped back to metal or new panels put in?

    Would not read too much into that... the deck surface is generally covered in heat resistant tiles that are generally not metal and do not rust... that is probably just the colour of the natural material or the colour they are painted... note the shape... like it is made of square jigsaw pieces.... I would say the bits that are rust coloured have just been placed to replace old tiles and have not yet been painted so they match the other tiles...

    And now this 1 has sunk completely. In any case, it created more work & $ loss since it must be replaced/salvaged/repaired.

    They are not supposed to fully submerge, but partial sinking is intended as a normal part of their operation.

    The way it sank probably led to some damage and it wont be easy to raise for this reason.

    Whether they fix it or get rid of it... it needs to be moved from where it is.

    I am not sure why those clowns ran the dock in such deep water, they should have prepared and underwater platform so that there was no chance of the dock sinking.

    They should have tested the pumps and power systems before they started taking the ship off in the first place... but hindsight is 20/20.

    Some news outlets are suggesting that GPS wasn't working properly during the exercise and that it was likely that the Russians were interfering with the signal... perhaps Norway will send the bill to Russia... hahahahahahaha
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:18 am

    The tanker crew warned them repeatedly that they were getting in the way but got a reply that "everything is under control". The skipper's, navigator's & XO (Executive Officer) naval carriers r over! They'll most likely stand a court martial.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Militarov on Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:18 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    They should have tested the pumps and power systems before they started taking the ship off in the first place... but hindsight is 20/20.


    Onboard engines were not used for very long time and are out or order for years apparently. Pumps were getting power from the shore via the power grid.

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  walle83 on Sun Nov 18, 2018 12:21 am

    Tsavo Lion wrote:The tanker crew warned them repeatedly that they were getting in the way but got a reply that "everything is under control". The skipper's, navigator's & XO (Executive Officer) naval carriers r over! They'll most likely stand a court martial.

    The first contact and warning between the ships was 56 seconds before the colision.

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  hoom on Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:51 am

    Which wouldn't have been necessary if HI checked into the VTS controller on entering the area.
    VTS would have given appropriate directions for HI to stay out of the way of the 100Kton tanker & to turn its transponder/nav lights on.

    HI was blasting along at over 17kt close to a bunch of large commercial traffic, without much manoeuvring room, with nav lights & transponder off & apparently a very poor watch being kept on its own radar/EO/out the windows, it didn't call in to VTS, it didn't slow or alter course when advised to.

    Even if technically the tanker was in give-way position, practically a loaded 100Kton tanker coming out of port counts as having impaired manoeuvring -> is default the right-of-way ship to anything but a (bigger) less manoeuvrable ship.


    If I didn't know its real I'd have considered the transcript a version of the old US carrier vs Lighthouse gag.
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    Tsavo Lion

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  Tsavo Lion on Sun Nov 18, 2018 6:10 am

    Details: https://riafan.ru/1119978-za-granyu-razumnogo-ekipazh-naskochivshego-na-tanker-fregata-nato-porazil-eksperta-nekompetentnostyu?utm_source=24smi.info&utm_medium=cpc&utm_content=1933775&utm_term=2152

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  hoom on Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:43 pm

    PD-50 to be lifted https://lenta.ru/news/2018/11/19/pd50/
    Says to get it out of the way not to repair.
    Divers cutting a metal sample for strength testing.

    we have a number of options for how to solve the problem: either to make a design on a dry dock at the 10th plant, which is located practically across the bay, or the question of acquiring a finished dock is being considered. We still have an option for using a dry dock at the Sevastopol plant
    So considering either buying in new floating dock or building at Polyarny or Sevastopol.
    Not really the obvious places for new giant floating dock construction but maybe a case of where there is spare capacity?

    kumbor

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  kumbor on Tue Nov 20, 2018 11:13 am

    mnztr wrote:Its modular so they can re float it piece by piece by doimg some.cutting. That way it won't snap

    Docks are not "so" modular. Obviously you are not familiar with this technology!

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  mnztr on Thu Nov 22, 2018 2:24 am

    kumbor wrote:
    mnztr wrote:Its modular so they can re float it piece by piece by doimg some.cutting. That way it won't snap

    Docks are not "so" modular. Obviously you are not familiar with this technology!

    There are varying designs, how this particular one is put togther I am not so sure, but I think they can cut it up and salvage some sections. If its worth it? Who knows. But I am no Naval Archithect or salvage expert. That I fully admit.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Aircraft Carrier Admiral Kuznetsov: News #2

    Post  GarryB on Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:26 pm

    if it is just for scrap they could cut bits off it and raise it a piece at a time... blow all the ballast tanks first so nothing floats up before it is wanted, and then cut it to pieces.

    Would be an interesting job for an ROV... such a robot would be quite useful...

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