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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #26

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    PapaDragon

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #26

    Post  PapaDragon on Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:25 pm

    auslander wrote:Just in, VVP has said Russia will put a resolution before UNSC for UN peace keepers along the demarcation line between Novorossia and Ukraine. This may well scotch any plans US has for an offensive this fall and 'defensive weapons' to Kiev.

    http://tass.ru/politika/4532374

    http://tass.com/politics/963727


    He also hinted of what will happen if something does get sent to Ukrops (between the lines: bonanza for NAF as usual)

    Putin Warns US Against Lethal Arms Deliveries to Ukraine

    https://sputniknews.com/politics/201709051057089739-putin-ukraine-us-lethal-arms-deliveries/



    Ans some fun stuff:

    Ukraine Justice Ministry Receives Georgia's Extradition Request for Saakashvili

    https://sputniknews.com/europe/201709051057095656-ukraine-georgia-governor-odessa/

    JohninMK

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #26

    Post  JohninMK on Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:39 pm

    This was yesterday, my highlight.

    Pavlo Bohomazov, a lawyer for former governor of Odesa region Mikheil Saakashvili, said he had received official replies from the Ukrainian Security Service (SBU), the National Police, the Justice Ministry, and the State Border Guard Service, all of them confirming that there were no legal obstacles to Saakashvili's entry to Ukraine.

    The Security Service said in reply to Bohomazov's written inquiry that Saakashvili's name was not on its entry ban list, the Movement of New Forces political party said in a statement on its Facebook page.

    The National Police Service said it did not have Saakashvili's name in its automated databases, either.

    The Justice Ministry said it did not have requests from Georgian authorities for Saakashvili's extradition or information on his convictions in Georgia.

    The State Border Service said it had no instructions from authorized government bodies to bar Saakashvili from entering the country, the statement said.

    "Therefore, there are no legal grounds to obstruct Mikheil Saakashvili's crossing of the Ukrainian border at the Krakovets border checkpoint on September 10. Any attempts by law enforcement agencies not to allow Mikheil Saakashvili to enter the Ukrainian territory could be seen as unlawful and violating Ukrainian law," it said.

    As reported, on July 26, 2017 it became known that Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko had signed a decree depriving Saakashvili of his Ukrainian citizenship. Saakashvili himself was in the United States at the time, from which he traveled with his Ukrainian passport to Poland and then Lithuania. At present Saakashvili is in Denmark.

    Saakashvili announced on August 16 that he would return to Ukraine through the Krakovets checkpoint in Lviv region on September 10.


    http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/446140.html

    JohninMK

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #26

    Post  JohninMK on Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:42 pm

    Then there is this 'What no new toys? Booo Hoooo.

    The statement made by Russian President Vladimir Putin about the inadmissibility of a possible U.S. delivery of lethal weapons to Ukraine is evidence of Moscow's readiness to defiantly continue financing and arming of international terrorism, Secretary of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine (NSDC) Oleksandr Turchynov has said.

    "The president of the Russian Federation allows himself to frighten the U.S. and the international community by the fact that in the territory of Donbas occupied by the Russian troops there are supposedly "enough weapons" left that can be sent to any hot spot in the world "sensitive to those who create problems for them"- that is, the USA," Turchynov said, commenting on the public statement of Putin about the possible supply of U.S. lethal weapons to Ukraine, the NSDC press service reported on Tuesday.

    He said that in the territory of Donetsk and Luhansk regions occupied by the Russian Federation, there was no depot complex for storage of military equipment and ammunition of the Armed Forces, "and all military equipment, ammunition and weapons are delivered to the militants exclusively by the Russian Federation."

    "That is why the supplies of weapons and equipment that Putin threatens to the United States can only be from Russia," Turchynov said.


    http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/446314.html

    Then on the same subject this bleating

    http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/446304.html

    JohninMK

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #26

    Post  JohninMK on Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:47 pm

    On peacekeepers



    KYIV. Sept 5 (Interfax-Ukraine) - The Opposition Bloc faction in the Ukrainian parliament supports the initiative to deploy UN peacekeepers in Donbas, even if they work only along the disengagement line, Opposition Bloc faction deputy head Serhiy Liovochkin said. "The root of the word 'peacekeepers' is peace. If any peaceful initiative is possible now, and if it is supported in the Normandy format or in the UN format, all this brings Ukraine closer to peace. Certainly, it's necessary to support this and only then consider who should stand with weapons in what corner," Liovochkin told journalists in Kyiv on Tuesday.
    "If there is such an initiative, we, the Opposition Bloc, support it and call on all political forces to refrain from speculations," Liovochkin said. "We will support any peaceful initiatives, including those about deploying peacekeepers," he said.



    Ukraine's Ministry of Foreign Affairs has said there can be no talks with the leaders of the self-proclaimed republics of Luhansk and Donetsk about deploying a UN peacekeeping mission to Donbas, and there can be no Russian citizens among UN peacekeepers if a mission is deployed. "There can be no talk about receiving permission for a UN peacekeeping mission from the illegal armed formations action in Donbas, as they are supported, financed and supplied from Russia," a statement by the foreign ministry said, referring to comments made on Tuesday by the Russian leader.
    The statement said comments made by the Russian president show another by Russia, a party to the conflict, to present the aggression in Donbas an internal Ukrainian conflict, and to distort the idea and goals of deploying a peacekeeping mission, which would not fulfill the main objective – the establishment of a lasting peace in Donbas and restoration of Ukraine's territorial integrity.
    The statement stressed that Russia's unwavering adherence to pledges for a complete ceasefire announced at the end of August at the start of the school year should be the basis for the start of a dialogue with the aim of deploying a UN peacekeeping mission to Donbas.




    First Deputy -Speaker of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine and Ukrainian representative in the Trilateral Contact Group for Donbas peace talks Iryna Gerashchenko says that the deployment of a UN peacekeeping mission along the contact line in eastern Ukraine is out of the question, as the peacekeepers should be deployed throughout the entire Ukrainian territory occupied by Russia.


    More on this one at http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/446247.html
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #26

    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:46 pm

    Funny. I know US will support Ukraine so no peacekeepers I guess. Ukraine will demand thru it impossible terms.

    JohninMK

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #26

    Post  JohninMK on Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:01 pm

    miketheterrible wrote:Funny. I know US will support Ukraine so no peacekeepers I guess. Ukraine will demand thru it impossible terms.
    Highly likely but interesting chess move by Putin tho'.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #26

    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:17 pm

    JohninMK wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:Funny. I know US will support Ukraine so no peacekeepers I guess. Ukraine will demand thru it impossible terms.
    Highly likely but interesting chess move by Putin tho'.

    Germany seems to back Putin's idea though, so that makes two of the Minsk members that are for it. If France agrees, then Ukraine is on its own (well, with US help) but it will be viewed (if not taken because of Ukraine) as Ukraine destabilizing force and not Russia. By their demands as is, it makes it obvious to others they are not interested in peace. Instead, they want same thing UN forces did in Yugoslavia to do. This time, Russians won't allow it.

    JohninMK

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #26

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:08 am

    Kiev really doesn't want any peacekeepers as it would mean that they would have to rein in many of those currently firing at will. That it would find very difficult. Also their troops in the ATO would become very bored and either wander off home or find something more exciting to do, in Kiev perhaps.

    This would eliminate the need for US 'defensive' weapons as well.

    This is lose, lose for Poro.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #26

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Sep 06, 2017 6:17 pm


    Cool


    JohninMK

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #26

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:24 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Cool

    That was Azov entering her sea.

    She could at least have given a few blasts of her horn/siren.

    Very smart. She has had a recent paint job. She looked real bad after hammering up and down on the Syrian Express for years. Those ships have really excelled themselves, that task probably wasn't in their design spec.
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    PapaDragon

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #26

    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:33 pm


    Fun article to read but you need (as always) to cut trough some very thick BS and standard talking points.

    It's hilarious to watch the author try to claim that Russia is financial basket case while at the same time warning that Ukraine will go to the dogs due to Russia's expanding economic projects... lol1

    Russia seeks to close Ukraine’s window to the west

    Infrastructure projects risk turning traditional east-west bridge into an island


    https://www.ft.com/content/f57f6b4c-92ed-11e7-bdfa-eda243196c2c

    Last month, Russia completed a railway that bypasses Ukraine. The project was entrusted to a special military unit and completed a year ahead of schedule, underscoring its importance to the Kremlin. It is the latest of several Russian-led infrastructure projects that, coupled with the devastation wrought by the conflict with Russian-backed separatists in the Donbas region, risk turning Ukraine, historically a bridge between east and west, into an island.

    Isolation from emerging east-west connectivity could be one of the most enduring and most damaging consequences of the war for Ukraine, one that both Kiev and its western partners need to pay more attention to overcoming.

    Not long ago, Ukraine hoped to become a major gateway along China’s Belt and Road, a massive connectivity initiative stretching across Eurasia and beyond.

    “The idea of the Great Silk Road will be actively supported by Ukraine,” then-President Viktor Yanukovich said during his visit to Beijing in 2013. Agreements promising $8bn in Chinese investment were signed, including a $3bn port in Crimea. But those deals were among the casualties of the armed conflict that erupted in early 2014.

    So too were many existing connections between Ukraine and Russia, which were either damaged in the fighting or deliberately severed as a form of economic pressure.

    Ukraine’s conflict also disrupted internal connections between separatist-held regions of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts and the rest of the country. In the early days of the fighting, separatist forces targeted critical infrastructure in eastern Ukraine.

    A UN assessment in November 2014 found that 53 bridges, 45 road sections, and 190 railway facilities had been damaged. Altogether, infrastructure losses were estimated at $440m, and while some repairs have been carried out, funding constraints and security challenges have limited reconstruction.

    The toll has been highest for people living in disputed territory, where neither Kiev nor Moscow is eager to assume the financial burden of governing. Near the contact line, once-routine movements are inefficient and even perilous. In the Lugansk oblast town of Stanytsia Luhanska, which was temporarily captured by pro-Russian separatists, elderly residents must struggle across a damaged bridge that separates territory controlled by rival forces. In government-controlled territory, protesters have blockaded railways, disrupting coal shipments and other trade.

    For both sides in the conflict, altering patterns of trade and transit is a means of shaping Ukraine’s political and economic destiny. While military forces have destroyed critical infrastructure such as bridges and railways, the governments in both Kiev and Moscow are building new connections that will re-orientate trade flows.

    When Russian-backed separatists seized Crimea in early 2014, Ukraine cut off road and rail links to the peninsula, along with water supplies, banking, and other services. In the autumn of 2015, Crimean Tatar activists blew up electricity pylons, temporarily halting the flow of electricity from the mainland to Crimea. These steps have reinforced Crimea’s isolation from mainland Ukraine, worsened poverty on the peninsula, and imposed significant costs on the occupying Russians.

    As Kiev has sought to isolate Crimea economically, Moscow is building new linkages designed to further integrate Crimea with Russia. Leading the list is a $4bn bridge that Russia is building across the Kerch Strait to Crimea, accompanied by a $2bn highway. The bridge has become a pet project for Russian President Vladimir Putin, who tasked a member of his inner circle with constructing it and has called the effort a “historic mission”. Intended to open at the end of 2018, it has numerous hurdles to overcome: sanctions, harsh weather, unruly soil and even seismic activity.

    Also shaky is the economic case for the bridge. It is designed to carry an estimated 13m tons of cargo and 14m people between Russia and Crimea each year. In practical terms, that means the bridge could accommodate all the tourists that visited Crimea last year by ferry, plus annual round trips by every man, woman and child living in Crimea. Expanding the ferry service would be more cost-effective, but that would undercut the project’s main objectives: transferring public wealth into favoured private hands and showcasing Russia’s power.

    While Russia builds into Crimea, it is building around Ukraine in other ways. The recently completed railway bypass cuts off a 26km stretch of Ukrainian railway, freeing Russian shipments to Belarus, the Baltics, and other points south from having to cross Ukrainian territory. Traffic along the route could grow after the long-awaited North-South Transportation Corridor, which stretches from Moscow to Mumbai, becomes operational. If Ukraine remains cut off, it will miss out on this growth.

    Russia is also building pipelines that will decrease its reliance on Ukraine, which now touches nearly half of Russia’s gas exports to Europe. Nord Stream 2 would double the capacity of an existing route between Russia and Germany. Targeted in a recent US Senate sanctions bill, the project has been embraced by five European states and opposed by others in central and eastern Europe. Despite opposition, it aims to start delivering gas in 2019.

    A related project, Turkish Stream, envisions two undersea pipelines connecting Russia and Turkey across the Black Sea. The first pipeline will primarily serve the Turkish market, while the second will serve southern Europe. Construction of the first pipeline began in May and is scheduled to become operational in 2019. Connecting to the EU will require overcoming regulatory hurdles, which require unbundling infrastructure ownership from transmission, as well as the opposition of the European Commission.

    Completion of Nord Stream-2 and Turkish Stream would allow Russia to continue servicing European customers while dramatically reducing the volumes of gas it ships through Ukraine. Not only would Ukraine lose out on transit fees, it would face the possibility of Moscow cutting its gas supplies off in a crisis. In previous crises, if Russia cut gas supplies to Ukraine, it risked leaving its European customers without gas as well, encouraging the Europeans to push hard for a resumption of supplies. If the two bypass pipelines are completed, European and Ukrainian interests will diverge to a much greater degree.

    None of these infrastructure projects are game-changing on their own, but taken together, they preview a Ukrainian state that is increasingly isolated from its traditional trading patterns. This connectivity challenge is multidimensional, extending beyond bilateral relations with Russia and beyond hard infrastructure. The Russian-led Eurasian Economic Union, for example, includes Belarus and, by imposing new customs barriers, limits Ukraine’s possibilities for trade with its East Slavic neighbours. Ukraine’s losses could mount as new routes emerge and the Eurasian supercontinent connects without it.

    Russia’s efforts to isolate Ukraine economically make it imperative for Kiev to deepen trade and transit ties to the west. Some Ukrainian trade has already shifted from Russia to the EU, which received 37 per cent of Ukraine’s exports in 2016, up from 25 per cent in 2012. That figure should continue to rise following the ratification of the EU-Ukraine Association Agreement by the European Commission in July 2017. Yet even as the volume of Ukraine’s exports to the EU increased, they also declined in value. The shift has also favoured exports of agricultural products, while manufactured goods have suffered, since few of Ukraine’s industries are competitive inside the EU.

    To cope with reduced connectivity to its east, Ukraine and its European partners need to reinforce their efforts to promote connectivity to the west.

    Infrastructure upgrades would help. Ukraine has one of the largest railway networks in Europe, but its rolling stock is ageing and needs to be replaced. Ukraine’s ratio of highways to land, lags far behind its European peers, and most roads do not meet international standards. Ports handle the bulk of Ukraine’s international trade and with grain exports at record levels, they could benefit from improved grain handling capacities. Factories must also be upgraded so that more products meet EU standards.

    All of this will require investment, which means that Ukraine must get its own house in order. Kiev has moved too slowly on reforms to reduce corruption, promote foreign investment (allowing foreign land ownership, for example), and privatise state-owned enterprises.

    As Russia’s infrastructure projects underscore, the world is not sitting still. Ukraine’s western window will not remain open forever.
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    Odin of Ossetia

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #26

    Post  Odin of Ossetia on Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:34 pm

    Odin of Ossetia wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:
    Odin of Ossetia wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Ispan wrote:Short update. Links in Russian, use google translate.
    New tactical advances that confirm the weakenss of the enemy. Two days ago the ukrops gave up without fight outposts in the Svetlodarsk arc. There's video to confirm it.
    Today in Donetsk sector another 500 meter advance that straigthens the front and removes a wedge, near Peski, NW of the city.
    No longer a couple of isolated incidents, seems to fit with a weakening  of Ukrainian defense lines, either from scarcity of troops, or lack of will to fight, or both
    http://antimaydan.info/2017/08/_810036.html
    Hard ukrainian attacks in the coastal sector, several breakthrough attempts
    http://antimaydan.info/2017/08/_810045.html


    Confirming shortages of troops, Ucrainian police are told to volunteer for a tour of duty in the front or be fired, and a new call up of recruits for National Guard

    «


    Good news, probably related to this:

    Ukraine hollows out

    Since independence and especially since the Maidan coup Ukraine has experienced a population collapse unprecedented in post Second World War Europe......


    http://theduran.com/ukraine-hollows-out/



    Unprecedented would be Russia's considerable population loss during the 1990's and 2000's.

    There are presently close to two million Ukrainian pseudo-refugees in Poland alone. In the city of Wroclaw they allegedly make around 10% of the population, and that is one of the largest cities in Poland.

    If the current Ukraine experiences some population loss, but if they eventually take over a large chunk of Poland, then it is not such a bad deal for them. That is apparently the aim here.

    I think the article tries to make look Ukraine weaker than it is. It shows only part of the story.

    Majority of Ukraine population that left isn't in Poland.  Add to that, these are a mixture of political and mostly economical refugees.  This is not some grand strategy of Ukraine, because as evident of what is happening in the Rada, they do not have a strategy on replacing toilet paper in the stalls of the washroom.  That is if they can even obtain toilet paper.



    What that bull-shit article fails to say is:


    1) Ethnic Ukrainians are very influential in Poland. They are not some push around immigrants like some attempt to portray them as. They can murder you and literally get away with it; it is the German-Ukrainian mafia known as the "Civic Platform" which enjoys very heavy support from the EU leadership. They are heavily present in Poland's so-called "justice" system.

    2) It is Poland that pays for the higher education of 25 000 Ukrainian students. Polish students do not get paid for any education in Ukraine.

    3) They bring their kids to Poland, and even if they are illegally the Polish government pays them money for these kids as if these were real citizens.

    4) Polish government also pays lots of money to the Ukrainian government, Poland does not get anything in exchange.

    5) Erection of illegal Ukrainian nationalist monuments in Poland, totally tolerated by the consecutive Polish governments, while the legal monument to the ethnic Polish victims of the UPA and SS from the Huta Pieniacka recently was destroyed.

    6) Polish military has also dispatched various equipment to its Ukrainian counterpart, of course Poland also got nothing in exchange.



    So who do you think is the real vassal here?

    I think the articles is very misleading.


    And I forgot:


    7) I think Poland also gives Ukraine some free natural gas.


    JohninMK

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #26

    Post  JohninMK on Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:54 pm

    Could be a back door for US inc NGO support or funds into Ukraine.

    JohninMK

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #26

    Post  JohninMK on Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:31 pm

    Not completely sure what this, it is from a demining charity, means other than it looks like the Ukrops have mined in depth. Maybe with minefield maps hopefully?

    The HALO Trust‏ @TheHALOTrust

    This article summarizes the initial survey findings conducted in #Ukraine to date by intl. humanitarian operators: https://buff.ly/2wdvcS1


    JohninMK

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #26

    Post  JohninMK on Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:31 am

    A bit of background and analysis on Putin's peacekeeping force proposal.

    http://www.fort-russ.com/2017/09/un-peacekeepers-last-chance-to-stop-war.html

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #26

    Post  JohninMK on Sun Sep 10, 2017 12:09 am

    Interesting comment in Basurin's report today

    In addition, according to the statement of the chief of the General Staff of the AFU Muzhenko, the force withdrawal of the volunteer battalions from the AFU zone will begin in the nearest future, due to the inability to tolerate their crimes against the civilian population, as well as frequent skirmishes with the AFU units. This decision may provoke a wave of new conflicts between the units of Ukrainian nationalists that are not under the control of the "ATO" command and the soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine implementing the orders of the military authorities.

    https://dninews.com/article/donetsk-defense-situation-report-09092017

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #26

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