The Situation in the Ukraine. #25

Guess it's time to get ready for more sanctions. Seems OSCE has upped stakes and left LDNR but that's basically a 'don't let the door hit you in the ass as you leave' deal. At least OSCE operatives won't be planting more arty homing devices as they've been wont to do in the far and recent past. Bastards.

Any resumption of hostilities on the part of Novorossiya will of course be the fault of Russia. It's getting beyond ludicrous and well beyond bizarre.

auslander wrote:Guess it's time to get ready for more sanctions. Seems OSCE has upped stakes and left LDNR but that's basically a 'don't let the door hit you in the ass as you leave' deal. At least OSCE operatives won't be planting more arty homing devices as they've been wont to do in the far and recent past. Bastards.

Any resumption of hostilities on the part of Novorossiya will of course be the fault of Russia. It's getting beyond ludicrous and well beyond bizarre.

The OSCE did exactly the same thing in Kosovo in 1999. It is a stooge outfit run by the USA.

Russia and China need to push for actual international organizations and not some NATO components.

I am certain that the only reason is a staff shortage as they need to move the OSCE people to Russia to monitor the elections there.

Vann7 wrote:Interesting report ,that albeit happened months ago , is must read to say the least.
Everyone remembers when Canadian Prime minister visited Kiev and began training their army?
Apparently according to sources.  A major Canadian Special Operation of 20 soldiers was done
in the ATO zone in Donetsk. they were placed in charge to infiltrate and take control of some positions. But it ended in a major disaster for them.. with the entire group kicked from the
rebels holded zones and 11 of the canadian special forces killed.. the others barely escaped alive.


http://stalkerzone.org/11-canadian-mercenaries-go-home-bodybags-master-class-donbass/

So pretty much ,if this reports are true.. it looks like NATO wants to increase the pressure
on Russia to provoke them to invade directly and help with its airforce and tanks and artillery
to defend the Ukraine separatist and assist them in case they pushed back  It just show
that what the pro Russian fighters face in Donetsk and Lugansk is not just the Ukraine army.
but NATO special forces are mixed there too.. and this was told by nothing less than the top leader of Donetsk ,forgot his name , about afro americans who speak english being killed who were fighting for Ukraine and this NATO direct confrontation with Russian sponsored forces is no different in Syria. French special forces ,were captured in 2012 in HOMs backing the free syrian army and doing the satellite communications with NATO , this was the time the american journalist with one eye patch was killed. back then and the ambazador of france had to reopen in Syria ,for never explained reasons in public , but according to journalist present in Syria ,it was to negotiate their release with the help of Russia.

That was very interesting reading.

From what I know, nothing on this incident has been ever reported in the Canadian mass media.

I find it strange that the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS) was supposedly involved, as they are supposed to be only a "spy agency" and only a domestic one (essentially to be active only in Canada).


Have you found any additional information on this incident?

More than 3100 Ukrainian soldiers killed so far. That's a lot for a modern war.

He's back and already on the ignore list.

auslander wrote:He's back and already on the ignore list.

Convinced he's a paid troll/bot now. It isn't ridiculous to assume that even a relatively obscure forum such as this would not be targeted by the forces that be.
It seems, in my opinion, that this one's goal is to simply derail conversation, which he/it has done successfully on numerous occasions.

I instantly recognized his style, hence the immediate movement to obscurity. It's the same on another forum, political, that I frequent although bans there are even more rare than here. Still, after almost a year of obfuscations one got banned albeit after almost destroying the forum.

Alexander Rogers writing about the general situation regarding America, and applicable to Donbass and Syria, in fact everywhere. http://alexandr-rogers.livejournal.com
"The masks are off, the game is over"  "Wear helmets comrades, as the naked undisguised truth has emerged"
And in the article he writes that the actions of America are those of weakness, which I agree on 100%, and so my little rant yesterday, and that Europeans are finally showing signs of casting off the shackles of America, and he cites the TTIP agreement and the affair about "Apple", which, to kill two posts in one go, leads to the total failure of the "rotten apples" and other rats in the elections to gain even the 3% needed for government funding, let alone the 5% to gain any seats. Zhirinovsky's LDPR doing well and coming very close third is not a surprise as while most want the continuity of proven strength of "United Russia" under Putin, many also want tougher talk, even from back of donkey...

Edit: In the article he also says about the fracturing of the "one world", which was always some political correct nonsense, and that in Europe they look to what is in the interests of their own countries, and an example here is photo of recent rally in Bulgarian city of Kazanlak where 10 000 people showed contempt for EU/NATO and support for Russia.

Khepesh wrote:Alexander Rogers writing about the general situation regarding America, and applicable to Donbass and Syria, in fact everywhere. http://alexandr-rogers.livejournal.com
"The masks are off, the game is over"  "Wear helmets comrades, as the naked undisguised truth has emerged"
And in the article he writes that the actions of America are those of weakness, which I agree on 100%, and so my little rant yesterday, and that Europeans are finally showing signs of casting off the shackles of America, and he cites the TTIP agreement and the affair about "Apple", which, to kill two posts in one go, leads to the total failure of the "rotten apples" and other rats in the elections to gain even the 3% needed for government funding, let alone the 5% to gain any seats. Zhirinovsky's LDPR doing well and coming very close third is not a surprise as while most want the continuity of proven strength of "United Russia" under Putin, many also want tougher talk, even from back of donkey...

Edit: In the article he also says about the fracturing of the "one world", which was always some political correct nonsense, and that in Europe they look to what is in the interests of their own countries, and an example here is photo of recent rally in Bulgarian city of Kazanlak where 10 000 people showed contempt for EU/NATO and support for Russia.
http://s014.radikal.ru/i329/1609/49/1103ffe3163c.jpg

The main thing for Russia is not to fall for Uncle Scam's bait. Uncle Scam is going too far and this is undermining him. Uncle Scam
desperately needs Russia to act the role of the Bogeyman but vile tyrant Putin is not abiding. The US-dominated NATO MSM is going
off the rails with their retarded hate propaganda and in the process are alienating media consumers. If Russia can hold on for a few more years
it will be harvesting ripe fruit of victory with little effort. But if Russia "threatens" the EU then that will revive Uncle Scam like blood will a
vampire.

Russia should ensure that Cold War v 2.0 is a farce.

kvs wrote:The US-dominated NATO MSM is going off the rails with their retarded hate propaganda and in the process are alienating media consumers. If Russia can hold on for a few more years it will be harvesting ripe fruit of victory with little effort.   But if Russia "threatens" the EU then that will revive Uncle Scam like blood will a vampire.

Russia should ensure that Cold War v 2.0 is a farce.

Well they don't seem to be enduring this Cold War as good as the USSR did in the beginning of the last one (late 40s to 50s). They lost Ukraine, the Baltics (in NATO) and Georgia. Eastern Europe is already lost since Gorby's years. Kazakhstan is in the process of culturally eliminating anything Russian, same as most other -stans.

I guess the only positive-ish alliance of sorts is that with China, but it will result in the technological depletion of Russia in the long-term. If Russia makes a comeback in Ukraine by 2030 (before Banderite teenagers reach their 30s), things may get better. For now it's a downwards spiral.

KiloGolf wrote:

Well they don't seem to be enduring this Cold War as good as the USSR did in the beginning of the last one (late 40s to 50s). They lost Ukraine, the Baltics (in NATO) and Georgia. Eastern Europe is already lost since Gorby's years. Kazakhstan is in the process of culturally eliminating anything Russian, same as most other -stans.

I guess the only positive-ish alliance of sorts is that with China, but it will result in the technological depletion of Russia in the long-term. If Russia makes a comeback in Ukraine by 2030 (before Banderite teenagers reach their 30s), things may get better. For now it's a downwards spiral.

Is there a chance for Russia to reclaim former soviet territories after a potential US collapse in the forseeable future? Securing both Russia's western and southern flank is a great necessity to guarantee its security. Russia needs to reestablish its cultural power especially in the stan countries to counter radical islam and promote the growth of Russian orthoxy in central asia, further expanding Russian spriritual influence.

Project Canada wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:

Well they don't seem to be enduring this Cold War as good as the USSR did in the beginning of the last one (late 40s to 50s). They lost Ukraine, the Baltics (in NATO) and Georgia. Eastern Europe is already lost since Gorby's years. Kazakhstan is in the process of culturally eliminating anything Russian, same as most other -stans.

I guess the only positive-ish alliance of sorts is that with China, but it will result in the technological depletion of Russia in the long-term. If Russia makes a comeback in Ukraine by 2030 (before Banderite teenagers reach their 30s), things may get better. For now it's a downwards spiral.

Is there a chance for Russia to reclaim former soviet territories after a potential  US collapse in the forseeable  future? Securing both Russia's  western and southern flank is a great necessity to guarantee its security. Russia needs to reestablish its cultural power especially in the stan countries to counter radical islam and promote the growth of Russian orthoxy in central asia, further expanding Russian spriritual influence.

not even a remote chance it would bankrupt the Russian economy re unification with west germany and east germany nearly destroyed the german economy in the 1990s

Godric wrote:

Project Canada wrote:

KiloGolf wrote:

Well they don't seem to be enduring this Cold War as good as the USSR did in the beginning of the last one (late 40s to 50s). They lost Ukraine, the Baltics (in NATO) and Georgia. Eastern Europe is already lost since Gorby's years. Kazakhstan is in the process of culturally eliminating anything Russian, same as most other -stans.

I guess the only positive-ish alliance of sorts is that with China, but it will result in the technological depletion of Russia in the long-term. If Russia makes a comeback in Ukraine by 2030 (before Banderite teenagers reach their 30s), things may get better. For now it's a downwards spiral.

Is there a chance for Russia to reclaim former soviet territories after a potential  US collapse in the forseeable  future? Securing both Russia's  western and southern flank is a great necessity to guarantee its security. Russia needs to reestablish its cultural power especially in the stan countries to counter radical islam and promote the growth of Russian orthoxy in central asia, further expanding Russian spriritual influence.

not even a remote chance it would bankrupt the Russian economy re unification with west germany and east germany nearly destroyed the german economy in the 1990s

I'll go with that. Not a bat in hells chance. Russia will be breathing a huge sigh of relief that they handed off to the EU the financing of all those bankrupt economies. They just screwed up with getting rid of Ukraine, even back then is was too corrupt for the EU.

Nowadays, with the advances in defensive systems plus the lack of real armies in place in Europe and the time and cost of moving them, Russia doesn't need swathes of territory outside to protect itself. The only real danger is a US first strike and that is a different ball game.

The Baltic states and Ukraine etc didn't make Russia great... their loss wont effect the future of Russia... except in a few decades time when the border between Russia and the Ukraine becomes more of a economic border like the border between Mexico and the US...

Russia has enormous potential to be great... that is why the west hates it so much... it has always been a potential rival...

KiloGolf wrote:

kvs wrote:The US-dominated NATO MSM is going off the rails with their retarded hate propaganda and in the process are alienating media consumers. If Russia can hold on for a few more years it will be harvesting ripe fruit of victory with little effort.   But if Russia "threatens" the EU then that will revive Uncle Scam like blood will a vampire.

Russia should ensure that Cold War v 2.0 is a farce.

Well they don't seem to be enduring this Cold War as good as the USSR did in the beginning of the last one (late 40s to 50s). They lost Ukraine, the Baltics (in NATO) and Georgia. Eastern Europe is already lost since Gorby's years. Kazakhstan is in the process of culturally eliminating anything Russian, same as most other -stans.

I guess the only positive-ish alliance of sorts is that with China, but it will result in the technological depletion of Russia in the long-term. If Russia makes a comeback in Ukraine by 2030 (before Banderite teenagers reach their 30s), things may get better. For now it's a downwards spiral.

Comparing the Cold War as it stands today to Post-War Europe and the USSR... Just no... and you were accusing Magnum of playing 3D chess, sounds like you're playing Total War.

Lets talk about how Russia lost the barely functional "state" that was Ukraine shall we. They "lost" a corrupt shithole with an even shittier military that was about as reliable as my Samsung (this was proven undeniably by the very fact Maidan was even a thing). They gained Krim and Novorussia. The West got a nazified, refugee spawning, oligarchial frozen conflict, that has shaky territorial "value". I mean, I'll take a fully-functional Crimea to a pre-2014 Ukraine any day of the week.

Georgia got flattened. The Georgians kicked out Sakashvilli themselves, any NATO cooperative drills happening today are simply smoke and noise (as can be seen from the scale of the operations today, à la pathetic). Georgia knows it will get ass-rammed again if it steps out of line, NATO can stand in the way if it wants with its advisors and mil-personnel stationed there, they'll just be killed along with the rest of the Georgian army, like they were last time. But okay, Russia "lost" Georgia.

The Baltics: Dammit, why can't Russia have all dat migrant influx from those successful EU experiments? What a tragedy!

Kazakhstan isn't going anywhere, and they know it. There is no ultra-nationalist movement that can be manipulated by Soros in the country, and Kazakhstanis have strong affinity with Russia, like Eastern Ukraine but distributed evenly across the country. In Kazakhstan's case, it's not just Russia but also China that has a vested interest in them not being violently overthrown by the West, so it really isn't going to happen.

Which leads on to China's "positive-ish alliance". On this you are totally correct. Russia allying itself with the largest economy in the world against the US is just so silly. It will cause immense Russian brain-drain and probably simultaneously kill-off the entire Russian population due to aids. Russia has no control of its technology exports or joint-ventures with China, not only that but Russia isn't at the forefront in technological advancement at all, in-fact, they're behind Somalia, and not going anywhere, so in the long-term China will steal all of Russia's Soviet-era tech and then leave Russia for dead. In saying this, Russia doesn't make anything anyway, so this isn't really a problem. They're just a glorified gas station. Arr arr  

You failed to look over the other side of the fence. The West is in full-decay, Europe is practically gone-burger. The US' MIC is failing to innovate and only gets an exponentially worse cost/benefit ratio with each ludicrous project.  (although from your prior posts you seem to be of the opinion that Western hardware works exactly as advertised, which isn't great, given that the Wests catalogue pamphlets are so much more flashy than Russia's). On a societal level the US is cracking, with the traditional Right and Left being the most polarised we have ever seen. Scholars such as Stephen Cohen have and are warning that the US is in its last days. Just look at their "elections" for crying out loud.

Cold War v2.0 was and is a farce. The only concern is it going hot, which is what Russia must constantly battle to avoid.

If by "2030" the US even exists in its current form you can bloody well take me to task.

There is a version for the reason of the assasination of Evgeny Zhilin is that he was preparing to organise an army of volunteers to go to Kharkov. While so far none of the usual people who comment about such things are pointing any fingers, and generally any ukrops DRG are ruled out, clearly somebody in Ukraine, or from Ukraine, wanted him dead. Zhilin was very active against maidan and the radikals in Kiev and then in his native Kharkov in early 2014 until the oligarchs and such destroyed any hope of rebellion by withdrawing all support. It can be safely said that LDNR is never going to return to control of Kiev, but Kharkov is not a lost cause to also break away. I suggest any serious attempt to create rebellion in Kharkov will attract the attention of Kiev, naturally, but also oligarchs, and that Kiev may think twice about assasinations in Moscow, but oligarchs would not, and they have money to create the conditions for assasination, the gathering of intelligence, possibly bribes to people etc, all the normal tricks. So while Zhilin was already an obvious target for Kiev, and certainly on wanted list, it is possible that removing him is of more benefit to some oligarchs, who do not want any more interference in their abilty to steal make $

The world turned upside down. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot???

https://sputniknews.com/europe/20160922/1045584732/osce-georgian-mercenaries.html

Does this imply that they have got into the Ukrainian ATC system or have data from the Russian systems?

MOSCOW (Sputnik) – Almaz-Antey experts uncovered materials of possible interest to the deadly July 17, 2014, crash after inspecting the manufacturer's Enroute Radar Facility office archives, the company said in a statement.

"This relates to so-called raw primary radar images of the airspace. Currently, all primary radar data stored at the Research and Production Corporation 'Lianozovo Electromechanical Plant' [part of Almaz-Antey] has been submitted to Russia's competent authorities for examination and onward submission to the Netherlands," Almaz-Antey added.

It said the electromechanical plant's experts "replaced data carriers from the Ust-Donetsk Utes-T air route radar surveillance complex processors containing data about the traffic situation in July 2014, including July 17, 2014, in the area of the Malaysian Boeing disaster over Ukraine."

The Lianozovo Electromechanical Plant specializes in radar and control system production.

Read more: https://sputniknews.com/world/20160922/1045592115/almaz-antey-mh17.html

Definitely not what they wanted their Master to be saying

MOSCOW (Sputnik) — Ukraine should fasten implementation of the political and economic reforms it had promised to carry out, because some EU member states are seeking ways to suspend sanctions imposed on Russia, US Vice President Joe Biden said.

"Until you form a new government and you actually bring in someone who will move on this, we’re not playing. Not because we’re trying to play hardball, because we know if they give an excuse to the EU there are at least five countries right now that want to say, whoa, we want out [of anti-Russia sanctions] — at least five right now," Biden said Wednesday, speaking at the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) about the necessity to implement reforms by Kiev.

He added that some European countries see no point in maintaining anti-Moscow restrictions. "You know as well as I do — and I’m going to try to be no focused on any one country — there’s an overwhelming instinct in Europe to say, hey, before you guys became president, this was owned but Russia anyway. They had a puppet there. What difference does it make? What the hell is the difference? Why are you making us engage in these sanctions?" Biden added, saying that without the consensus within the 28-nation bloc "the ability to sustain the sanctions evaporates."

Read more: https://sputniknews.com/europe/20160922/1045583342/us-eu-sanctions-ukraine.html

OminousSpudd wrote:Lets talk about how Russia lost the barely functional "state" that was Ukraine shall we. They "lost" a corrupt shithole with an even shittier military that was about as reliable as my Samsung

You've just described Eastern Europe/ex-USSR republics under Soviet influence and control. Now that entire geographical area (+ex USSR republics) simply got taken away from Moscow. Nobody claimed they'd become western Germany or Luxembourg or Moscow region for that matter. They never had to be like that. They form a large buffer area that belongs to NATO now, with population majorities of highly anti-Russian political views. That last bit is the big difference.

So I agree a direct comparison cannot be made, as the populations there are now very positive towards their new alliance. Something Moscow never managed to achieve in the same places, just a few decades ago.

Zakharchenko has announced redeployment of "Sparta" to Lugansk. He said this is to assist Plotnitsky deal with any coup attempt. On Tuesday Plotnitsky said about possibility of ukrops organising coup attempt in Lugansk, but tho he did say about this, he has played it down and made it seem like nothing serious, and in fact the story has been mostly ignored. Zakharchenko says "everything is fine", but that "Sparta" is now on way to Lugansk seems to indicate that everything is not fine. http://dnr24.su/extra-news/16225-zaharchenko-soobschil-o-perebroske-batalona-sparta-v-lnr.html

JohninMK wrote:Does this imply that they have got into the Ukrainian ATC system or have data from the Russian systems?

MOSCOW (Sputnik) – Almaz-Antey experts uncovered materials of possible interest to the deadly July 17, 2014, crash after inspecting the manufacturer's Enroute Radar Facility office archives, the company said in a statement.

"This relates to so-called raw primary radar images of the airspace. Currently, all primary radar data stored at the Research and Production Corporation 'Lianozovo Electromechanical Plant' [part of Almaz-Antey] has been submitted to Russia's competent authorities for examination and onward submission to the Netherlands," Almaz-Antey added.

It said the electromechanical plant's experts "replaced data carriers from the Ust-Donetsk Utes-T air route radar surveillance complex processors containing data about the traffic situation in July 2014, including July 17, 2014, in the area of the Malaysian Boeing disaster over Ukraine."

The Lianozovo Electromechanical Plant specializes in radar and control system production.

Read more: https://sputniknews.com/world/20160922/1045592115/almaz-antey-mh17.html

More probably a backhanded way for Mother to pass the pertinent data to them for publication. Of course Mother has her own and I'd be willing to bet has the orc data also.

Bet this is not happening in 'important' places

MOSCOW (Sputnik) – Conflicting parties will begin pulling out their troops from three locations in eastern Ukraine, with troop withdrawal to begin in four additional locations on October 5, Kiev's envoy to the Contact Group on Ukraine, said Thursday.

"The [troop withdrawal] work begins today in three locations," Yevhen Marchuk said. According to Marchuk, the Trilateral Contact Group will continue the work on withdrawing troops and equipment at four additional contact line locations starting October 5.

On Wednesday the sides to the conflict in eastern Ukraine signed a framework agreement on the withdrawal of forces at three locations along the line of contact.

The Trilateral Contact Group on the settlement of the Ukrainian crisis, that comprises Russia, Ukraine and the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE), was set up in 2014.

Read more: https://sputniknews.com/europe/20160922/1045595327/troop-withdrawal-ukraine.html

KiloGolf wrote:

OminousSpudd wrote:Lets talk about how Russia lost the barely functional "state" that was Ukraine shall we. They "lost" a corrupt shithole with an even shittier military that was about as reliable as my Samsung

You've just described Eastern Europe/ex-USSR republics under Soviet influence and control. Now that entire geographical area (+ex USSR republics) simply got taken away from Moscow. Nobody claimed they'd become western Germany or Luxembourg or Moscow region for that matter. They never had to be like that. They form a large buffer area that belongs to NATO now, with population majorities of highly anti-Russian political views. That last bit is the big difference.

So I agree a direct comparison cannot be made, as the populations there are now very positive towards their new alliance. Something Moscow never managed to achieve in the same places, just a few decades ago.

The reality is that Western Ukraine didn't gather a population of brainwashed zombies overnight, the retardation that is Ukrainian nationalism had been percolating since long before Maidan. The relative landmass of Ukraine becomes pointless if the population itself hates Russia. There is no strategic buffer if the Western population will happily take up arms with NATO if they came/come rolling through.

The ex-SSRs were taken by force, yes, but again, so many of these states already had a large chunk of the population that blamed Russia for all their economic woes (spurred on by the powerful propaganda campaign waged by systems such as RFE/RL, which had gained credibility with the SSR populations and enormous momentum with the collapse of the USSR) an attitude that has eventually manifested itself in outright unfettered hatred. Poles, Lithuanians, Estonians et al. At the end of the day this was an information war the new Russia couldn't hope to win (they were broke after all). However, as can be seen by the attitudes already changing in many of the ex-SSRs the reality of these countries directly conflicts with the forced narrative, therefore rendering the propaganda rather neutered.

At the risk of sounding enormously callous to those living in Novorussia, Ukraine has actually become a godsend for Russia. A frozen conflict represents probably the best protection against a refugee influx from a broken Europe.

Ukraine will come around, eventually. In the meantime there is no need to fret over what could have been. Russia gained a lot in terms of no longer being the benefactor for Ukraine, pouring money into a black void, simply for the sake of keeping them afloat. Obviously Crimea, Naval assets, and Black Sea viability all play very well into Russia's hands as well.

Lets not forget that the Soviet Onion's policies of having many layers wasn't exactly the smartest, losing the ex-SSRs was inevitable. In the Information Age the US has demonstrated quite well just how important it is to pull the strings from the shadows when concerning its vassal states, rather than using the methods of direct and full-scale occupation.  

Geographically Eastern Europe presents a good staging area for NATO, but in terms of defense I do not think WW3 will quite play out in the typical fashion of cohesive offensive and defensive lines, probably rendering these geographical assets more or less moot.  Russia will strike the hearts of Europe and the US long before she mobilized in any fashion, doctrine dictates the immediate use of tactical nukes as it is, things would escalate to full-scale Nuclear Armageddon in no time.