The Situation in the Ukraine. #25

2nd Corps at Lugansk moved to "enhanced mode". Probably simply the words that are required for public consumption after attempted assasination of any head of state, but will increase the tension.

More on Plotnitsky. Shrapnel wounds to head and arm, damage to cornea of one eye, but not likely to loose sight, burns to chest and contusion. He was said to have been covered in blood when he arrived at hospital.

Are these units still, to an extent, living off the land? I so there could be disputes on the flanks as to who gets what. Or even, who gets the better positions so perhaps flexible fronts and sides.

No, supplied via normal logistics train, tho it seems some do not have much self respect and live in filthy conditions without any excuse. This is symptom of bad leadership at the most basic level as well. But I think when evidence of how they live appears, then it should be treated with caution and not applicable to all of them as a certain amount of propaganda occurs.

The Americans are arming Ukraine with lethal arms. Donbas better get ready. Russia needs to supply counter battery radars NOW.

https://twitter.com/24todayneteng/status/761916976138752000

Zakharchenko is in Lugansk and has said that an attack like that against Plotnitsky was expected and was known a month ago. He also said it is a precursor to war to take out himself, Plotnitsky and other senior figures in LDNR. This statement of course raises questions about level of security and competence of Lugansk MGB.

Edit: Interesting article on Lenta laying out the versions of attempt by Kiev and internal disputes. Very concise and keeps to facts and does not make accusations. The facts themselves are sufficient. https://lenta.ru/articles/2016/08/06/car_blast/

For myself I see no reason at this time to suspect that this is anything to do with previous assasinations in LNR and failed attempts within DNR, and was a real attempt by Kiev to kill Plotnitsky.

JohninMK wrote:On a lighter note, this is part of a Sputnik thread that's just gone up. This guy is living dangerously.

It's not just Western governments who are becoming fatigued with Ukrainian authorities. The country's own political class is becoming increasingly concerned with the state of the country. On Thursday, Evgeny Muraev, an MP from Kharkiv in Ukraine's northeast, went on national television and directly questioned the holiest of holies – the idea that Russian troops were fighting in civil-war-torn eastern Ukraine.

In the explosive interview for Ukrainian news channel 112 Ukraina, Muraev criticized the government's failed political and economic policies, and said directly that after over two years of conflict in the east of the country, Kiev has not yet been able to provide any convincing evidence of Russian military involvement there. "We hear about a million proofs [of Russian aggression in eastern Ukraine]," Muraev noted. "Let's present them to the world! In Europe, they no longer take such statements seriously."

Unfortunately, he added, the authorities aren't willing to provide even their own people's representatives with evidence to that effect.

The MP explained that a month ago, he wrote a formal request to the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) and the country's Ministry of Defense, asking them to provide information on exactly which Russian military units are involved in the conflict. "According to the law on the status of parliamentary deputy, they were required to provide me with an answer, but neither the SBU nor the Ministry of Defense has given me with any information about it," the lawmaker complained.

Effectively, Muraev suggested, Ukrainian, and the rest of the world for that matter, are simply being deceived by authorities in Kiev. "Every television set across the country is saying that these [Russian units] exist somewhere – so [let the government] show them! Then no one, either in Europe, in Ukraine, or anywhere would have any doubts," the MP noted.

Meanwhile, the fragile peace in Donbass is continuing to deteriorate. On August 2 alone, authorities from the Donetsk People's Republics reported that 161 artillery shells had being fired into their territory. In neighboring Lugansk, the head of the self-proclaimed republic, Igor Plotnitsky, survived what appears to have been an assassination attempt on Saturday following a car explosion.

Meanwhile, authorities in the self-proclaimed republics have said that they are increasingly concerned over the rhetoric coming out of Kiev, and worried that the Ukrainian military may try to resolve the frozen conflict there by force.

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20160806/1043998951/lawmaker-demands-evidence-russian-troops.html

RIP Muraev

Khepesh or any other Russian speakers, can you translate the gist of this latest post by Strelkov?

http://chervonec-001.livejournal.com/1494607.html

Google translation is gibberish, but it seems Strelkov, uncharacteristically, is hopeful that attitudes in the Kremlin have changed and they realize freezing of the conflict is not possible.

Essentially it is a continuation of what Pushilin and Zakharchenko have been saying about no Minsk 3 and Shoigu saying last week that Ukraine is becoming a strategic enemy. He simply adds 1+1 and finds it is 2, and it means that there will be no more "partners" and the gloves will come off if Kiev attacks. Again it backs up what Zakharchenko has been saying for a long time that when the counter-offensive is launched it will not stop until defeat of Kiev, if necessary in Odessa and or Kiev. Strelkov's reservations are that Kremlin may not yet have stomach to go that far, and while he clearly thinks it possible to initiate assault against ukrops, not waiting for their offensive, and quickly defeat them, he doubts Kremlin would go that far, and cynically says with such as Surkov it would become a "commercial war", a war for business interests, not the people. Remove the political cynicism and insults and what he says is in fact opptimistic that the removal of the regime, without taking notice of what Washington shrieks, and by military means, is now a possibility. About what happens now, he is saying, as others do, that a static war is occuring, and about repressed reports. We get nothing these days about what is happening at the front from perspective of VSN, which is frustrating but correct. The hint from him, and others, is that casualties mount. There are the reports of ukrops shelling themselves, at times with 152mm, but it can be certain that 90%, or more, of the time they are not hitting their own forces, but VSN. Nobody wants to talk about this, but people know, and is one of the factors behind the talk of war from within leadership of LNDR.

Report from "Mage" this morning states that due to ukrops pushing large numbers of forces into Marinka and Mariupol, the attempt on Plotnitsky and an exercice practising DDos attacks, combined with statements from LDNR and Kremlin, war is imminent, within the next week. It's been "imminent" for a long time, but mood musik seriously changed and this time it may not be shouting wolf, we will see....

We, too, have indications of eminent hostilities. In the next week is a reasonable time frame, giving time for resolution before the fall rains. It's going to be difficult and the sanctions will be draconian this time.

perhaps expectation of the resumption of hostilities in eastern Ukraine is the reason why Russia is not committing enough forces in Syria to deal with the Jihadi terrorists that are causing mayhem over there.

Fighting reported on Crimean border due to incursion over the border by ukrops. Casualties reported on both sides, 1 Russian dead and 3 wounded. Also reports of helicopters active at the border, and unconfirmed reports that heavy MLRS is heard at Mariupol, presumably outgoing if true. The incursion by ukrops over the border into Crimea may be by Crimean Tatars or pravy sektor acting without orders, or without orders that could be traced back up chain of command to Poroshenko...  Interesting.
Also reports from locals that the army is deployed around Simferopol and forces move in strength to the border at Perekop. Some ukrops saying there is an "exercise" taking place on the border, others that they are attacked, others that they simply don't know. All sounds familiar and may be potential modern Gleiwitz incident, or something like the attack that started the war in Georgia.

Also Kiev, which already has substantial forces at the border and between the border and Kherson, are moving up additional heavy forces from Odessa to Kherson. Also reports of re-enforcements crossing into Crimea via Kerch.

There is no fighting taking place at this time on the border it should be stressed.
https://life.ru/t/новости/887487/na_rossiisko-ukrainskoi_ghranitsie_proizoshla_pieriestrielka_iest_poghibshiie

None of this is confirmed, but something is certainly happening

This is certainly happening tho, movement of marines at Kerch today


DNR territory hit by earthquake, true. People scan the skies for swarms of locusts, test river for signs of blood, first born tremble, possibly not true......

Reports of heavy MLRS at Mariupol would have been the earthquake, 4.7, and it seems centered on Mariupol.

Ten or so BTR's moving from west of Kerch is not reinforcements. It is very common to see military convoys all over this island, some much larger that this little unit. There are enough RA in Krimu to handle anything the orcs want to try.

To the best of our knowledge there was and is no fighting on the Krimu/Orcland border. The orcs did close the borders and told everyone Russia had closed the borders. Two hours ago the orcs opened their borders again. Rumors of the attempted infiltration of a small unit of orcs are unsubstantiated at this time.

Well I did give a big caveat to this. However, it is still unexplained why the border crossings were closed, and even now only Chongar is opened while Kalanchak and Chaplinka remain closed. Yet again there is a disconnect with what people know, and what is in the news, or not as in this case mostly. Like yesterday, Plotnitsky is close to death, Plotnitsky's injuries are not life threatening, Plotnitsky has xyz injuries, Plotnitsky has abc injuries, speaks from his bed, today back at home and fit to resume duties. 10-15 Kg bomb of RDX fixed to lampost in full few of anybody who walks or drives by, but nobody sees this, not least MGB, wtf! What really happens? what are we to know and what not to know? what is covered up? what slips past the filters and is then denied? Games, smoke and mirrors

Orcs open and close the border at whim and sometimes to generate more income.

Smoke and mirrors is part of war and that's what we've got, a two and a half year long war.

Concerning Plotnitsky, someone really screwed the pooch on that deal. Don't know enough to say if it was at least partly an inside job but it just don't smell right. On the other hand I'm a suspicious old bastid.

From Fortrus

The First Head of the Lugansk People's Republic, Valery Bolotov, commented on the recent assassination attempt on Igor Plotnitsky on his Facebook page:

He wrote: "I can say the following about the assassination attempt on the current leader of the LPR: This all looks very strange. As a sapper by military specialty, I see that the explosion was, so to say, empty - without any damaged elements. It's clear in the photo of the car that it had no penetrating fragments in it besides the door dented from the blast. Naturally, the only injuries could have been from shattered glass or internal organs damaged by the blast wave." I am not going to judge who needed to do this. But this could become another witch hunt and unite the hands of the LPR's security structures so as to remove unwanted people and get down to those people who stand for the prosperity and strengthening of he republic," Bolotov noted.

In any case, such things like attempts on peoples' lives are unacceptable," he added.

3 Ukrainian fags KIA in Donbas yesterday

Isn't there a Forum rule that posters shouldn't insult and gloat over death of military combatants? These guys could have been conscripts.

Anyone got any comments on this, before my time on MP.net.

Robert H. Scales—a retired Army major general, a former commandant of the U.S. Army War College and the author of the forthcoming book Scales on War—has recently told the Washington Post that Russia has better weapons and better men to fight the ideological war than the US does. He wrote:

“In November, while visiting the headquarters of the U.S. Army in Europe, I received a briefing on the performance of the Russian army in Ukraine. In a perfunctory tone, the young intelligence briefer recited the details of the July 2014 Battle of Zelenopillya, in which a single Russian artillery “fire strike” almost destroyed two Ukrainian mechanized battalions in a few minutes.

“I couldn’t help imagining a U.S. armored battalion subjected to a similar fire strike. I realized then that Ukraine had become Russia’s means for showcasing what might happen if we ever fought a firepower-intensive battle against it. ‘You know, guys,’ I mused in the moment, ‘this is the first time since the beginning of the Cold War that an American war-fighting function has been bested by a foreign military.’”

Robert H. Scales, “Russia’s superior new weapons,” Washington Post, August 5, 2016.

JohninMK wrote:Isn't there a Forum rule that posters shouldn't insult and gloat over death of military combatants? These guys could have been conscripts.

These guys could have been artillerists.

JohninMK wrote:Anyone got any comments on this, before my time on MP.net.

Robert H. Scales—a retired Army major general, a former commandant of the U.S. Army War College and the author of the forthcoming book Scales on War—has recently told the Washington Post that Russia has better weapons and better men to fight the ideological war than the US does. He wrote:

“In November, while visiting the headquarters of the U.S. Army in Europe, I received a briefing on the performance of the Russian army in Ukraine. In a perfunctory tone, the young intelligence briefer recited the details of the July 2014 Battle of Zelenopillya, in which a single Russian artillery “fire strike” almost destroyed two Ukrainian mechanized battalions in a few minutes.

“I couldn’t help imagining a U.S. armored battalion subjected to a similar fire strike. I realized then that Ukraine had become Russia’s means for showcasing what might happen if we ever fought a firepower-intensive battle against it. ‘You know, guys,’ I mused in the moment, ‘this is the first time since the beginning of the Cold War that an American war-fighting function has been bested by a foreign military.’”

Robert H. Scales, “Russia’s superior new weapons,” Washington Post, August 5, 2016.

Utter BS.

The US has 50 cm resolution satellite imagery that it could use to prove that Russian artillery and MLRS units were in the vicinity. It has not produced
any images. I have seen some ludicrous images of combines being used as "proof" of something. But nothing for July 2014. Like the WADA smear
we have the usual "proof by accusation" in this case.

The Novorussian forces had MLRS systems and they used them effectively. MLRS is really that effective. This Scales clown is making up shit
when none is needed. But his job is to lubricate taxpayer money flow the US military industrial complex so generating hysteria about some
"gap" (remember the 1950s?) is the real motive here and not "shock and awe" over some Russian wunderwaffe.

kvs wrote:

JohninMK wrote:Anyone got any comments on this, before my time on MP.net.

Robert H. Scales—a retired Army major general, a former commandant of the U.S. Army War College and the author of the forthcoming book Scales on War—has recently told the Washington Post that Russia has better weapons and better men to fight the ideological war than the US does. He wrote:

“In November, while visiting the headquarters of the U.S. Army in Europe, I received a briefing on the performance of the Russian army in Ukraine. In a perfunctory tone, the young intelligence briefer recited the details of the July 2014 Battle of Zelenopillya, in which a single Russian artillery “fire strike” almost destroyed two Ukrainian mechanized battalions in a few minutes.

“I couldn’t help imagining a U.S. armored battalion subjected to a similar fire strike. I realized then that Ukraine had become Russia’s means for showcasing what might happen if we ever fought a firepower-intensive battle against it. ‘You know, guys,’ I mused in the moment, ‘this is the first time since the beginning of the Cold War that an American war-fighting function has been bested by a foreign military.’”

Robert H. Scales, “Russia’s superior new weapons,” Washington Post, August 5, 2016.

Utter BS.

The US has 50 cm resolution satellite imagery that it could use to prove that Russian artillery and MLRS units were in the vicinity.  It has not produced
any images.   I have seen some ludicrous images of combines being used as "proof" of something.   But nothing for July 2014.   Like the WADA smear
we have the usual "proof by accusation" in this case.  

The Novorussian forces had MLRS systems and they used them effectively.   MLRS is really that effective.   This Scales clown is making up shit
when none is needed.  But his job is to lubricate taxpayer money flow the US military industrial complex so generating hysteria about some
"gap" (remember the 1950s?) is the real motive here and not "shock and awe" over some Russian wunderwaffe.

Sorry, should have phrased the question better. I'm well aware of the Russian position on Ukraine and the US/Kiev claims. My question should have been 'did this event take place and was the destruction as described?'

If it did, given that that General, although using the standard 'Russians did it' publicly, was probably told pretty much what happened, it must be more worrying for the US that if 'amateur' troops could achieve this, just what could real, trained, Russians achieve.

JohninMK wrote:

kvs wrote:

JohninMK wrote:Anyone got any comments on this, before my time on MP.net.

Robert H. Scales—a retired Army major general, a former commandant of the U.S. Army War College and the author of the forthcoming book Scales on War—has recently told the Washington Post that Russia has better weapons and better men to fight the ideological war than the US does. He wrote:

“In November, while visiting the headquarters of the U.S. Army in Europe, I received a briefing on the performance of the Russian army in Ukraine. In a perfunctory tone, the young intelligence briefer recited the details of the July 2014 Battle of Zelenopillya, in which a single Russian artillery “fire strike” almost destroyed two Ukrainian mechanized battalions in a few minutes.

“I couldn’t help imagining a U.S. armored battalion subjected to a similar fire strike. I realized then that Ukraine had become Russia’s means for showcasing what might happen if we ever fought a firepower-intensive battle against it. ‘You know, guys,’ I mused in the moment, ‘this is the first time since the beginning of the Cold War that an American war-fighting function has been bested by a foreign military.’”

Robert H. Scales, “Russia’s superior new weapons,” Washington Post, August 5, 2016.

Utter BS.

The US has 50 cm resolution satellite imagery that it could use to prove that Russian artillery and MLRS units were in the vicinity.  It has not produced
any images.   I have seen some ludicrous images of combines being used as "proof" of something.   But nothing for July 2014.   Like the WADA smear
we have the usual "proof by accusation" in this case.  

The Novorussian forces had MLRS systems and they used them effectively.   MLRS is really that effective.   This Scales clown is making up shit
when none is needed.  But his job is to lubricate taxpayer money flow the US military industrial complex so generating hysteria about some
"gap" (remember the 1950s?) is the real motive here and not "shock and awe" over some Russian wunderwaffe.

Sorry, should have phrased the question better. I'm well aware of the Russian position on Ukraine and the US/Kiev claims. My question should have been 'did this event take place and was the destruction as described?'

If it did, given that that General, although using the standard 'Russians did it' publicly, was probably told pretty much what happened, it must be more worrying for the US that if 'amateur' troops could achieve this, just what could real, trained, Russians achieve.

The July 2014 Zelenopolye events did take place and hundreds of Banderastani punitive forces were wiped out. I recall
seeing video of skeletons in the charred remains of tents. The Banderastani equipment (trucks, armored vehicles, artillery
pieces) was turned to scrap. This was one of many "kesselschlacht"s formed where Banderastanis suffered serious losses.

I do not think that Novorussian forces are so green. There were and are many veterans among them and for sure people
who could use MLRS properly. US intelligence should be fully aware of this. But the purpose here is not the facts but
to generate anti-Russian hysteria. The same cold war propaganda tricks.

Russia is both a 3rd world toilet that "doesn't make anything" (Obama) and a threat where the US and NATO have "gaps"
that they need to close. Ludicrous nonsense.

Of course, Russia does have military tech that Uncle Scam should not write off.

JohninMK wrote:Isn't there a Forum rule that posters shouldn't insult and gloat over death of military combatants? These guys could have been conscripts.

Who gives a fuck if they are Hohols. Kill them all and hang them high.

This should have been done long long long ago.

https://www.rt.com/news/354970-european-court-mh17-relatives-ukraine/?utm_source=browser&utm_medium=aplication_chrome&utm_campaign=chrome

The European Court of Human Rights has given the green light to a lawsuit filed by relatives of MH17 passengers against Ukraine. It alleges that Kiev intentionally kept airspace over the war-torn eastern Ukraine open and failed to protect the passengers’ lives.