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    Project 885: Yasen class

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    Austin
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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Austin on Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:46 pm

    Viktor wrote:Problem is price hike of Graney sub. Cost of first unit was close to 2 bin, but now the second supposed to cost 4bin. Thats why no contract has being placed jet.
    If such case remains RuAN could easily drop Graney sub with its double firepower and 50% larger displacement as Virginia class as cold war relic.

    I think thats a common misconception here that its costly , it is costly because most of the cost is in gaining the lost ground of acoustic advantage in the 90's and 2000's to the west , gaining would be a conservative estimate they could well might exceed it as many western observer like Norman Polmar have concluded.

    If Russian Navy really wanted a cheap sub they can restart the production line of Akula-2 or 3 and that will cost them not more than $600 - $700 million per sub and with the cost of Graney they could easily buy 3 -4 sub.

    But the submarine war that we are into is really not a number war but an acoustic war where any country that has the acoustic advantage will have an upper hand and a first look first kill advantage if things go bad.

    It is estimated that the last few lowering of submarine decibel will cost them much more money then what they have spent in achieving where they are now. Already with Akula-3 like Gepard Russia has technology achieve a good amount of acoustic quietening.

    But the west has raced ahead with first development of Sea Wolf that was big and expensive but very quite and then Virginia that are some what smaller and less expensive but less capable in open ocean but more flexible in litorral.

    The money spent on Graney is quite high no doubt by Russian standards its gold plated but the amount of technology that goes into quietening the submarine is also a very very expensive business and not every couuntry can dream of achieving it , Graney combines the capability of Oscar 2 and Akula into one single 4th Generation submarine with both capabilities , it has host of new technology that as per even Russian Navy Chief would exceed the capability of Borei SSBN.

    The first submarine costs about 50 billion roubles or 1.5 billion dollar it made use of many exterior and interior parts from unfinished Akula but its a new 4th gen submarine , the second submarine kazan cost about 110 billion roubles $ 3.4 billion roubles she is a advanced class of the first and will go by designation 885M.

    Now MOD and Shipyard is working on cost of 3rd submarine onward and they are reportedly looking at 80 billion roubles $2.5 billion dollar as agreeable price for the next 8 submarine , one the production starts and bulk parts are needed the manufactures of components are ready to give discounted price.

    So Graney will help russia regain her weakness in Acoustic Quitening and would most likely exceed in all department against any submarine out there including acoustic quitening.

    There is a price to pay for such technology and Russian MOD and Navy is a willing to pay a high price an indication that they need the technology advantage and not just a submarine.

    There is a cheaper smaller submarine of 5th gen thats under design , it would be cheaper than Granney but it wont be significant cheaper or would be at cost of Akula yes but it would have lesser capability like firepower , Military inflation takes its own tool and equipment tends to get costlier becuase the raw material cost , electricity cost , wages of employee in no small amount adds up to the cost.

    I hope my post in some way clarifies why Graney is costlier.

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  GarryB on Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:00 pm

    Some call war a game, but it is not a game, it is life and death.

    You win or you die.

    If you can afford the best then go for it.

    Austin
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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Austin on Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:07 pm

    Submarine race literally got translated into technology race from pure number race , so you either had the technology or were in the race or you didn't have one and was out of contention.

    With the end of cold war , the race slowed down slightly but never really stopped , Number was cut down drastically and technology was used to suppliment number.

    In the future we might see a smaller SSN/SSGN force from Russia but it will be technology and acoustically a capable one and yes an expensive one too.

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  runaway on Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:28 pm

    And probably the the focus will shift from Northern fleet to Pacific fleet.
    The Yasen is way more capable than any Chinese or Japanese sub, so the Russian subs would found themselves in a new position.

    Superior subs, but inferior numbers.
    Anyway, thats the right direction i think. Fewer but very sophisticated.

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Austin on Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:35 pm

    The Chinese and Japanese sub can be effectively dealt with Akula-2.

    The US and newer NATO submarine would have to be dealt with Yasen

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:09 am

    There is an old saying... it is not the size of the instrument, it is how you use it.

    Or more appropriate in this case, it is not the size of the boat, but the motion of the ocean.


    Very simply even a crap vessel can surprise a much better quality ship... it certainly is an advantage to have the best boat, but you also need to use it skilfully too.

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  runaway on Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:20 pm

    Russia orders five Yasen class nuclear subs

    By Gleb Bryanski

    SEVERODVINSK, Russia | Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:35am IST

    SEVERODVINSK, Russia (Reuters) - Russia announced plans to build five nuclear submarines and made $9 billion worth of orders for the navy on Wednesday as part of an ambitious programme to modernise its army and fleet spear headed by Prime Minister Vladimir Putin.

    Putin, who will seek his third term as president next year, visited Alexander Nevsky, the new Borei class nuclear submarine, which will carry Bulava intercontinental missiles, and attended the signing ceremony at the Sevmash shipyard on the White Sea.

    "I am sure that realisation of this unprecedented programme, both in terms of its goals and financial resources, will enable us to carry out a large scale modernisation of our army and fleet," Putin told a meeting of government officials at Sevmash.

    The contracts, whose details are sketchy, envisage construction of five Yasen class submarines, a Sevmash official who declined to be identified told Reuters. The cost of one Yasen submarine is estimated at $1.3 billion.

    Yasen is bigger than Borei, whose cost is estimated at $759 million. It is armed with cruise missiles and does not carry long-range ballistic missiles such as Bulava which fall under international arms reduction treaties.

    No contracts for construction of Borei class submarines were signed on Wednesday. The spokesman for state-run United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC), of which Sevmash is part, said there were ongoing discussions over the price.

    Signed and done!

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  GarryB on Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:09 pm

    Great news.

    I think they were going to have one more single launch Bulava test and then they were going to launch a salvo of 2-3 missiles.

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Austin on Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:40 pm

    Russia’s Submarine Modernization Program - by Dr. Richard Weitz

    The Russian government is turning its attention to revitalizing Russia’s fleet of cruise-missile and multi-purpose attack submarines.

    They are able to do so with the apparent completion of Russia’s fourth-generation Project Mk 955 Borey-class nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine and its new RSM-56 Bulava (NATO code name SS-NX-30) Submarine Launched Ballistic Missile (SLBM).

    ­­­But the production of cruise-missile and multi-purpose attack submarines has fared even worse than Russia’s strategic nuclear submarines, leaving the Russian Navy with 8 attack su­­­­­­­­bmarines designed to engage other ships and 19 submarines designed to attack land-based targets with cruise missiles. Though still functional, they will soon reach the end of their designated lifespan since they were constructed during the 1980s and 1990s.

    Without urgent corrective measures, Russia’s submarine fleet could decline to fewer than 20 operational ships in a few years. Vice Admiral Oleg Bertsev, First Deputy of the Naval General Staff, has said that the Russian Navy needs between 40 and 50 nuclear-powered submarines to counter the submarines of Western nations. The United States currently has some 60 active submarines, though many of the Ohio class SSBNs will need to be replaced in coming decades. Many of the Russian submarines currently in service could continue operating until 2020 if their reactor cores are preserved due to their low level of operation. But eventually they must be retired and replaced.

    The focus of the Russian submarine replacement effort is now on the new Project 885 Yasen (NATO code name Graney) class nuclear-powered multipurpose attack submarine.


    Being a multipurpose ship, it fulfills two roles– that of traditional attack submarines and that of Russia’s cruise missile submarines.

    As an attack submarine it would replace the Akula attack submarines, and as a cruise missile vessel it would replace the Oscar II class ships. Although work started on the first Severodvinsk in 1993, with a planned launch for 1998, financial considerations halted work for most of the 1990s. Construction resumed in 2000 but delays in production continued due to financial problems as well as technical updates and modifications. The submarine was then scheduled to launch on May 7, 2010 to mark Victory Day over Nazi Germany. However, technical problems delayed the date again to June 15, when President Medvedev attended the launching ceremony.

    The Severodvinsk is named after the city in which it was built. Designed by the Malakhit Design Bureau and built by Sevmash Shipyard in the northern Russia city of Severodvinsk , the boat has a double hall and a single shaft. It is 120 meters long with ten compartments. The Severodvinsk displaces 9,700 tons on the surface and 13,700 tons when submerged. It has a maximum speed of 31 knots when submerged. The submarine is equipped with mines, torpedoes, 24 long-range cruise missiles for attacking distant targets, and short-range anti-ship missiles. The torpedoes are launched through eight 533 mm and 650 mm torpedo tubes, while the cruise missiles are launched via eight vertical launch tubes. The cruise missiles include the 3M51 Alfa SLCM, the SS-NX-26 Oniks SLCM and the SS-N-21 Granat/Sampson SLCM cruise missiles, and the SS-N-16 Stallion anti-ship missile. They can be armed with conventional or nuclear warheads and have ranges up to 5,000 kilometers (3,100 miles). It has a 85 member crew, suggesting a high degree of automation.

    The Severodvinsk recently began trials in the White Sea. The success of these sea trials will determine how soon the boat enters service. During its first underway period from September 12 to October 5, the Severodvinsk accomplished 80 percent of its assigned tasks while observers identified only minor problems with the ship’s performance. The official expectation is that the submarine will join the fleet this year, but according to Konstantin Makiyenko, deputy director of the Moscow-based Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, it could be three to five years before it is ready. The second Yasen submarine, the Kazan, was laid down in July 2009 and is currently under construction. It is expected to have more advanced equipment than the Severodvinsk and to enter service in 2015.

    Russian articles claim the Severodvinsk will be the quietest submarine in the world. The boat reportedly has new communications, navigation, and nuclear power systems as well as extensive noise reduction and stealth features. Western nuclear submarines have tended to be quieter than Soviet and Russian nuclear designs and Western experts have predicted that it will only be slightly quieter than the Akula class. The Severodvinsk is also reportedly the first Russian submarine with its torpedo tubes amidship to make way a new bow-mounted advanced sonar system.

    The Yasen’s long-range cruise missiles lead some to see it as a “carrier killer.” These SLCMs can be armed with nuclear warheads. Russian naval strategists see tactical nuclear warheads as helping to compensate for the inferior size of the Russian fleet as compared with the U.S. Navy. A tactical nuclear warhead could destroy an entire carrier task force group in seconds, which is beyond the capacity of Russia’s conventional weapons.

    Russian policy makers would naturally worry about such a conflict escalating to further nuclear exchanges, but the advantage of using a nuclear warhead against an ocean-going target is that the number of civilian casualties would be minimized and a clear firebreak would be retained since the adversary’s national territory would not be directly affected by the nuclear blast.

    But another mission for the Yasen submarines could be defending Russia’s extensive claims over the natural resources on the floor of the Arctic Ocean, which the Russian government has declared as part of its continental shelf. With its long-range cruise missiles and other weapons systems, the Severodvinsk would be able to defend large areas of the Arctic Ocean from a distance.

    The Yasen boats will probably be assigned to the larger Northern and Pacific Fleets due to their size, capabilities, and cost. Its advantages — long endurance, stealth, and cruise missiles—could be used more effectively in a larger body of water.

    Originally, the Soviet Navy wanted a total of 30 Yasen class submarines, but the Russian government only recently committed in the 2007-2015 SAP to buy two Yasen vessels, the Severodvinsk and the Kazan. In March 2011, an unnamed senior Navy official said that the service planned to acquire as many as ten Yasen class ships by 2020.

    Since then, the rising cost of the Severodvinsk class ships as well as tight funding has led many defense experts to urge the Russian Navy to find a cheaper replacement for its retiring current generation of submarines. The cost of the first Severodvinsk class boat is $1.7 billion, but the shipyard, Sevmash, was seeking to charge the Navy three times as much for the second boat, justifying the increase on inflationary trends in the defense industry related to rising prices for materials, energy, and “monopolistic” subcontractors “trying to dictate prices.”

    In early November 2011, the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) and the Russian Defense Ministry resolved their price dispute for the Yasen and Borey class nuclear-powered submarines. The Ministry agreed that in the future USC could select its own subcontractors rather than the Defense Ministry.

    Even if all ten Yasen submarines were built, they would not provide enough boats to replace all the Russian attack submarines that will retire in coming years. Some defense analysts suggest that Russia discontinue production of the Yasen boats after the Kazan, the second ship in the class, and then build less capable but less expensive submarines. The U.S. Navy pursued such a policy when it discontinued the building of the Sea Wolf class and began building the more economical Virginia class attack submarines.

    The Russian Navy still has several types of multi-purpose submarines inherited from the Soviet period. These include eight Oscar II class cruise missile submarines. They are armed with P-700 Granit cruise missiles designed to attack U.S. Navy carrier task forces. They may be armed with newer cruise missiles that could allow them to attack land-based targets. The Navy also has four Victor III and three Sierra attack submarines.

    The eight Akula submarines are mainly assigned to Russia’s Northern Fleet. Although the Soviet government began working on the more advanced Akula II type ship in the early 1990s, the post-Soviet collapse meant it was not until 2007 that the Russian government found sufficient funds to resume development work, starting in October 2008, to begin sea trials of the vessel.

    The Russian Navy only began receiving delivery of the first of its eight planned new Lada class diesel submarines in 2010, whose construction began over a decade ago. Developed by the Rubin Design Bureau, this new type Project 677 diesel submarine reportedly operates more quietly than the venerable Russian Kilo-class diesel-eclectic submarine, which it will replace.

    The Lada also has a longer operational range than the Kilos, which were constructed in the 1980s, and more advanced anti-ship weaponry. The Russian Navy wants to have eight Lada submarines by 2020, and more later, but problems with the propulsions systems used by the first vessel of this class, the St. Petersburg, have delayed completion of the other two ships whose construction has already begun.

    As an interim measure, the Navy is building six new improved Kilos based on a vessel that was previously only sold to other countries (such as China). They are supposed to join the Black Sea Fleet in a few years. The Black Sea Fleet, based in Sevastopol, currently has a single Project 877 Alrosa submarine. The Navy also plans to provide the Black Sea Fleet, whose operational zone incudes the Mediterranean Sea and the Gulf of Aden, with new frigates for possible use against pirates and to establish a permanent presence in the Indian Ocean.

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  runaway on Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:09 pm

    Austin wrote:[Some defense analysts suggest that Russia discontinue production of the Yasen boats after the Kazan, the second ship in the class, and then build less capable but less expensive submarines. The U.S. Navy pursued such a policy when it discontinued the building of the Sea Wolf class and began building the more economical Virginia class attack submarines.

    Clearly these analysts are wrong, but they have a point. As someone said" new SSN`s are in the pipes".
    I think its unlikely that Russias intire submarine force will consist of SSGN`s.
    The Oscar 2 will be replaced by the Yasen, of which another 5 were ordered, to a total of 7.
    Although, and i stress that, the Yasen is both SSN and SSGN, much more multifunctional than the Oscar.

    The agile Akulas 1,2 will also be replaced, by an agile SSN. How many of this class? No idea, but i would suggest in the number around 15-20.

    That would make the submarine force of some 22-27 nuclear attack submarines, and 8 SSBN`s. Totally somewhere 35, this is credible.

    The number of SS subs would be larger than now, probably around 20, as a large part of these will be deployed in Black and Baltic seas.

    Fotnot :

    JSC Zvezdochka Ship Repair Center has completed repair works on Project 949A Antei nuclear-powered attack submarine Voronezh (K-119), told a source in defense industry to Central Navy Portal.

    SSGN Voronezh arrived in Severodvinsk for repairs in Oct 2006. Since that time, Zvezdochka shipwrights have performed dock repairs of the sub, replaced turbines, eliminated leakage in steam generator, and conducted recovery operations to prolong the sub's service life for 3 years.

    The submarine had completed shipyard's sea trials on Nov 4, 2011 and left the yard heading for permanent basing site on Nov 12, 2011.

    Her place at Zvezdochka will be taken by analogous SSGN Smolensk which has already arrived in Severodvinsk. Repair of SSGN Smolensk is expected to finish in 2014.


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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Russian Patriot on Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:55 pm


    Russian Navy to receive 1st Graney class attack sub by end of 2012

    The delivery of the first Graney class nuclear-powered multipurpose attack submarine to the Russian Navy has been postponed until the end of 2012 due to additional tests of its weapons systems, the Sevmash shipyard said.

    Construction of the Severodvinsk submarine began in 1993 at the Sevmash shipyard in the northern Russian city of Severodvinsk but has since been dogged by financial setbacks. It was floated out in June last year and has undergone two sets of sea trials.

    “The delivery of the [Severodvinsk submarine] to the Defense Ministry has been postponed until next year,” Sevmash General Director Andrei Dyachkov said on Friday in an exclusive interview with RIA Novosti.

    Dyachkov said the testing of the submarine’s weaponry required at least six months of additional sea trials in 2012.

    “The submarine itself showed a good performance [during previous trials],” the official said. “It will be commissioned by the end of 2012.”

    Graney class nuclear submarines are designed to launch a variety of long-range cruise missiles (up to 3,100 miles or 5,000 km), with conventional or nuclear warheads, and effectively engage submarines, surface warships and land-based targets.

    The submarine's armament includes 24 cruise missiles and eight torpedo launchers, as well as mines and anti-ship missiles.

    Meanwhile, the construction of the second Graney class submarine, the Kazan, at the Sevmash is going according to schedule.

    The Kazan will feature more advanced equipment and weaponry than the Severodvinsk, and can be considered as a prototype of modernized Graney-M class submarines.

    Dyachkov said on Friday that Sevmash would start building a series of five advanced Graney-M class attack submarines in 2012 under a recent contract between the Russian United Shipbuilding Corporation and the Defense Ministry.

    http://www.en.ria.ru/mlitary_news/20111203/169275854.html

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Austin on Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:04 pm

    So a delay of a year , I just hope Yasen comes out well and restores the acoustic parity with sub that Russia lost to US with the development of Sea Wolf and Virgnia.

    I am sure when Yasen is commisioned we would see Western news paper with scare mongering and sensational news and views on this.

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  GarryB on Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:06 am

    Well, technically the Russians didn't really take seriously the silencing their subs till about the Victor series, as they hadn't realised how capable the western submarine detection capability had become with computers etc.
    They only started getting competitive in terms of silencing with the Victor III, and with the Sierra and Akula they reached levels the west had worked long and hard to achieve.

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    Project 885: Yasen

    Post  George1 on Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:08 am

    http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=15017

    Russian defense ministry plans to obtain seven Project 885 Yasen nuclear-powered cruise missile submarines (SSGN) by 2021. Last six new subs will be more silent and armed with stronger missiles, reports ITAR-TASS referring to a source in the government's military-industrial committee.

    According to the interviewee, the first Yasen-class submarine – SSGN Severodvinsk – will finish trials and join Russian Navy in 2012. Lead sub of upgraded Project 885M laid down in 2009, low-noise SSGN Kazan will be completed in 2015. Other five subs of this project to the overall amount of RUR 150 bln will be built for Russian Navy by 2021.

    Total cost of seven Yasen-class subs exceeds RUR 200 bln. According to the source, one Project 885M sub costs as much as 1.5-2 submarines of Project 955 Borei.

    "Project 885M subs will have hypersonic cruise missiles with maneuvering warheads capable to fly up to 1,000 km, deepwater homing torpedoes, rocket torpedoes and other arms, up-to-date radioelectronics, sonar system, communication and navigation facilities. Such subs will be much more silent than analogous Russian and foreign submarines", said the interviewee.

    Project 885 nuclear-powered cruise missile submarine Severodvinsk was developed by the Malakhit Design Bureau in St. Petersburg. The sub was laid down at Sevmash shipyard in 1993 and launched on June 15, 2010.

    Displacement is 9,500 tons; length is 120 meters; test depth is 600 meters; crew is 85; submerged speed is up to 32 knots.

    Torpedo tubes are placed behind central station which makes room for larger bow sonar antenna. There are 8 vertical launchers for missile arms.

    Yasen-class submarines are designed for attacking enemy subs, including nuclear ballistic missile ones, surface ship groups, naval bases, ports, and other assets.

    It was reported in Feb 2012 that Russian defense ministry was planning to purchase ten Project 885 Yasen submarines under State Arms Program 2011-2020.


    Last edited by George1 on Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:03 pm; edited 2 times in total

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  George1 on Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:10 am

    George1 wrote:

    "Project 885M subs will have hypersonic cruise missiles with maneuvering warheads capable to fly up to 1,000 km, deepwater homing torpedoes, rocket torpedoes and other arms, up-to-date radioelectronics, sonar system, communication and navigation facilities. Such subs will be much more silent than analogous Russian and foreign submarines", said the interviewee.


    3M-14E Klub missile isn't supersonic. What kind of missile could be then?

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:32 am

    3M-54 has a supersonic warhead... and this article mentions a supersonic warhead.

    No other missile has a separating warhead so I think that is the model they are talking about.

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  TR1 on Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:04 pm

    It will be a new missile. Tskiron or Brahmos-2.

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:45 am

    Brahmos II hasn't even flown yet...

    Plus talk of a manouvering warhead?

    Why call it a warhead?

    Perhaps they have developed a new version of 3M-54 that has a much more powerful rocket motor and is actually hypersonic?

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  TR1 on Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:40 am

    Most of the Russian reports state the missile is hypersonic (not just final stage) and it is a new weapon, so I think this is a clean slate project, not a Klub/Kaliber family item.

    Plus, this is for the 885M, which implies : Project has time to develop, since Kazan ain't close to being finished yet. Plus, it doesn't have to be ready by the time the first 885M boat is ready anyways, if we go by previous naval weapons trends.
    Also, that the 885M might have some major differences from Severodvinsk in terms of the VLS tubes.

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  TR1 on Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:47 am

    Though this does raise a question, given the actual range of the Kalibr vs Klub, what do we know about the range of the domestic Kalibr with supersonic section?
    Is it even being purchased?

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:44 am

    Western sources like to gloat over the fact that the supersonic Klub had a troubled start... but then Bulava had a problem start too.

    The thing is that the supersonic Klub is genius... there was traditionally the subsonic cruise missile which had advantages like long range and fairly small signature in radar and IR, and there was the supersonic missile which needed to be fairly huge to get any sort of reasonable range, but to fly supersonically for any decent distance it needed a jet engine which meant it was only really fast at high altitude and it would have a large IR signature.

    The Klub combines the virtue of both systems... it can fly low all the way on a subsonic turbojet engine which is efficient at low altitudes, but when it gets to the radar horizon of the target it launches its rocket section which because it only needs to cover tens of kms instead of hundreds can be much smaller and lighter, yet covers those last few vulnerable kms at very high speed because of the rocket propulsion.

    Brilliant.

    Of course the idea is based on the Alpha cruise missile which was a strategic level weapon of the same concept... subsonic several thousand kms and then supersonic close to the target area to breach the close in defences.

    If it is supersonic all the way then it wont be a rocket unless it is huge... a naval extended range Iskander? The INF treaty does not apply to naval weapons so a 2,000km naval Iskander is not impossible.
    Of course a more likely alternative would be a scramjet model of Onyx whose high speed could increase the flight range considerably...

    One would assume that the Yasen class follow the concept the Russian Navy has been following for the last few years and is fitted with UKSK launchers which means the missile should be Yakhont/Onyx/Brahmos like.

    Remember that they could be talking about the Russian equivalent of Brahmos II, because although Brahmos II is restricted to a warhead of less than 500kg and a flight range of less than 300km the Russian version is not.

    Brahmos has land attack capabilities while Onyx... in its original form was an anti ship weapon.

    With Glonass guidance I suspect adding land attack capabilities will be so trivial that they will likely do it even if they never end up using it in that role.

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  George1 on Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:58 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    Also, that the 885M might have some major differences from Severodvinsk in terms of the VLS tubes.

    Kazan is separated from the Severodvinsk by 16 years (1993-2009) so considerable changes are made to its design.

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Austin on Tue May 01, 2012 6:55 am

    Pr 885M Kazan are classified as 4 + Generation submarine

    Talking of hypersonic missile , this is a new missile which is all hypersonic perhaps the Zircon-S.

    The manouvering warhead of club is not really a warhead but a missile in true sense , which has guidance , propulsion and warhead . So its more like 2 stage missile.

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Austin on Wed May 02, 2012 12:16 pm

    Refrence to Zircon-S hypersonic cruise missile was made earlier by V Popovkin , I think the S in there stands for submarine

    link

    According to deputy defense minister Vladimir Popovkin, the program provides "construction of eight nuclear-powered submarines armed with Bulava ballistic missiles... and about 100 surface ships of different classes. Designing of key assets for general-purpose naval force is in progress; they are Project 885 Yasen nuclear-powered attack submarines (SSN), Project 22350 frigates, and Project 20380M corvettes". Besides, according to a high-ranking official, experts of appropriate agencies "are developing design of a new 5-generation SSN and a new destroyer"; by the way "basic weapon of those projects will be advanced shipborne missile system Caliber operating both antiship cruise missiles 3M-54 and long-range cruise missiles 3M-14 capable to destroy enemy's land objects". Moreover, "development of Zircon-S ship-based hypersonic missile system is also scheduled", said Popovkin.

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  George1 on Wed May 02, 2012 2:10 pm

    Austin wrote:

    link

    Besides, according to a high-ranking official, experts of appropriate agencies "are developing design of a new 5-generation SSN and a new destroyer";

    Α new SSN? Will that be useful to have 2 types? Unless is a cheaper solution

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