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    Project 885: Yasen class

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    Austin
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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Austin on Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:46 pm

    Viktor wrote:Problem is price hike of Graney sub. Cost of first unit was close to 2 bin, but now the second supposed to cost 4bin. Thats why no contract has being placed jet.
    If such case remains RuAN could easily drop Graney sub with its double firepower and 50% larger displacement as Virginia class as cold war relic.

    I think thats a common misconception here that its costly , it is costly because most of the cost is in gaining the lost ground of acoustic advantage in the 90's and 2000's to the west , gaining would be a conservative estimate they could well might exceed it as many western observer like Norman Polmar have concluded.

    If Russian Navy really wanted a cheap sub they can restart the production line of Akula-2 or 3 and that will cost them not more than $600 - $700 million per sub and with the cost of Graney they could easily buy 3 -4 sub.

    But the submarine war that we are into is really not a number war but an acoustic war where any country that has the acoustic advantage will have an upper hand and a first look first kill advantage if things go bad.

    It is estimated that the last few lowering of submarine decibel will cost them much more money then what they have spent in achieving where they are now. Already with Akula-3 like Gepard Russia has technology achieve a good amount of acoustic quietening.

    But the west has raced ahead with first development of Sea Wolf that was big and expensive but very quite and then Virginia that are some what smaller and less expensive but less capable in open ocean but more flexible in litorral.

    The money spent on Graney is quite high no doubt by Russian standards its gold plated but the amount of technology that goes into quietening the submarine is also a very very expensive business and not every couuntry can dream of achieving it , Graney combines the capability of Oscar 2 and Akula into one single 4th Generation submarine with both capabilities , it has host of new technology that as per even Russian Navy Chief would exceed the capability of Borei SSBN.

    The first submarine costs about 50 billion roubles or 1.5 billion dollar it made use of many exterior and interior parts from unfinished Akula but its a new 4th gen submarine , the second submarine kazan cost about 110 billion roubles $ 3.4 billion roubles she is a advanced class of the first and will go by designation 885M.

    Now MOD and Shipyard is working on cost of 3rd submarine onward and they are reportedly looking at 80 billion roubles $2.5 billion dollar as agreeable price for the next 8 submarine , one the production starts and bulk parts are needed the manufactures of components are ready to give discounted price.

    So Graney will help russia regain her weakness in Acoustic Quitening and would most likely exceed in all department against any submarine out there including acoustic quitening.

    There is a price to pay for such technology and Russian MOD and Navy is a willing to pay a high price an indication that they need the technology advantage and not just a submarine.

    There is a cheaper smaller submarine of 5th gen thats under design , it would be cheaper than Granney but it wont be significant cheaper or would be at cost of Akula yes but it would have lesser capability like firepower , Military inflation takes its own tool and equipment tends to get costlier becuase the raw material cost , electricity cost , wages of employee in no small amount adds up to the cost.

    I hope my post in some way clarifies why Graney is costlier.
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    GarryB
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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  GarryB on Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:00 pm

    Some call war a game, but it is not a game, it is life and death.

    You win or you die.

    If you can afford the best then go for it.

    Austin
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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Austin on Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:07 pm

    Submarine race literally got translated into technology race from pure number race , so you either had the technology or were in the race or you didn't have one and was out of contention.

    With the end of cold war , the race slowed down slightly but never really stopped , Number was cut down drastically and technology was used to suppliment number.

    In the future we might see a smaller SSN/SSGN force from Russia but it will be technology and acoustically a capable one and yes an expensive one too.
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    runaway
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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  runaway on Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:28 pm

    And probably the the focus will shift from Northern fleet to Pacific fleet.
    The Yasen is way more capable than any Chinese or Japanese sub, so the Russian subs would found themselves in a new position.

    Superior subs, but inferior numbers.
    Anyway, thats the right direction i think. Fewer but very sophisticated.

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Austin on Thu Sep 22, 2011 7:35 pm

    The Chinese and Japanese sub can be effectively dealt with Akula-2.

    The US and newer NATO submarine would have to be dealt with Yasen
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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  GarryB on Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:09 am

    There is an old saying... it is not the size of the instrument, it is how you use it.

    Or more appropriate in this case, it is not the size of the boat, but the motion of the ocean.


    Very simply even a crap vessel can surprise a much better quality ship... it certainly is an advantage to have the best boat, but you also need to use it skilfully too.
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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  runaway on Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:20 pm

    Russia orders five Yasen class nuclear subs

    By Gleb Bryanski

    SEVERODVINSK, Russia | Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:35am IST

    SEVERODVINSK, Russia (Reuters) - Russia announced plans to build five nuclear submarines and made $9 billion worth of orders for the navy on Wednesday as part of an ambitious programme to modernise its army and fleet spear headed by Prime Minister Vladimir Putin.

    Putin, who will seek his third term as president next year, visited Alexander Nevsky, the new Borei class nuclear submarine, which will carry Bulava intercontinental missiles, and attended the signing ceremony at the Sevmash shipyard on the White Sea.

    "I am sure that realisation of this unprecedented programme, both in terms of its goals and financial resources, will enable us to carry out a large scale modernisation of our army and fleet," Putin told a meeting of government officials at Sevmash.

    The contracts, whose details are sketchy, envisage construction of five Yasen class submarines, a Sevmash official who declined to be identified told Reuters. The cost of one Yasen submarine is estimated at $1.3 billion.

    Yasen is bigger than Borei, whose cost is estimated at $759 million. It is armed with cruise missiles and does not carry long-range ballistic missiles such as Bulava which fall under international arms reduction treaties.

    No contracts for construction of Borei class submarines were signed on Wednesday. The spokesman for state-run United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC), of which Sevmash is part, said there were ongoing discussions over the price.

    Signed and done!
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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  GarryB on Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:09 pm

    Great news.

    I think they were going to have one more single launch Bulava test and then they were going to launch a salvo of 2-3 missiles.

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Austin on Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:40 pm

    Russia’s Submarine Modernization Program - by Dr. Richard Weitz

    The Russian government is turning its attention to revitalizing Russia’s fleet of cruise-missile and multi-purpose attack submarines.

    They are able to do so with the apparent completion of Russia’s fourth-generation Project Mk 955 Borey-class nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine and its new RSM-56 Bulava (NATO code name SS-NX-30) Submarine Launched Ballistic Missile (SLBM).

    ­­­But the production of cruise-missile and multi-purpose attack submarines has fared even worse than Russia’s strategic nuclear submarines, leaving the Russian Navy with 8 attack su­­­­­­­­bmarines designed to engage other ships and 19 submarines designed to attack land-based targets with cruise missiles. Though still functional, they will soon reach the end of their designated lifespan since they were constructed during the 1980s and 1990s.

    Without urgent corrective measures, Russia’s submarine fleet could decline to fewer than 20 operational ships in a few years. Vice Admiral Oleg Bertsev, First Deputy of the Naval General Staff, has said that the Russian Navy needs between 40 and 50 nuclear-powered submarines to counter the submarines of Western nations. The United States currently has some 60 active submarines, though many of the Ohio class SSBNs will need to be replaced in coming decades. Many of the Russian submarines currently in service could continue operating until 2020 if their reactor cores are preserved due to their low level of operation. But eventually they must be retired and replaced.

    The focus of the Russian submarine replacement effort is now on the new Project 885 Yasen (NATO code name Graney) class nuclear-powered multipurpose attack submarine.


    Being a multipurpose ship, it fulfills two roles– that of traditional attack submarines and that of Russia’s cruise missile submarines.

    As an attack submarine it would replace the Akula attack submarines, and as a cruise missile vessel it would replace the Oscar II class ships. Although work started on the first Severodvinsk in 1993, with a planned launch for 1998, financial considerations halted work for most of the 1990s. Construction resumed in 2000 but delays in production continued due to financial problems as well as technical updates and modifications. The submarine was then scheduled to launch on May 7, 2010 to mark Victory Day over Nazi Germany. However, technical problems delayed the date again to June 15, when President Medvedev attended the launching ceremony.

    The Severodvinsk is named after the city in which it was built. Designed by the Malakhit Design Bureau and built by Sevmash Shipyard in the northern Russia city of Severodvinsk , the boat has a double hall and a single shaft. It is 120 meters long with ten compartments. The Severodvinsk displaces 9,700 tons on the surface and 13,700 tons when submerged. It has a maximum speed of 31 knots when submerged. The submarine is equipped with mines, torpedoes, 24 long-range cruise missiles for attacking distant targets, and short-range anti-ship missiles. The torpedoes are launched through eight 533 mm and 650 mm torpedo tubes, while the cruise missiles are launched via eight vertical launch tubes. The cruise missiles include the 3M51 Alfa SLCM, the SS-NX-26 Oniks SLCM and the SS-N-21 Granat/Sampson SLCM cruise missiles, and the SS-N-16 Stallion anti-ship missile. They can be armed with conventional or nuclear warheads and have ranges up to 5,000 kilometers (3,100 miles). It has a 85 member crew, suggesting a high degree of automation.

    The Severodvinsk recently began trials in the White Sea. The success of these sea trials will determine how soon the boat enters service. During its first underway period from September 12 to October 5, the Severodvinsk accomplished 80 percent of its assigned tasks while observers identified only minor problems with the ship’s performance. The official expectation is that the submarine will join the fleet this year, but according to Konstantin Makiyenko, deputy director of the Moscow-based Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, it could be three to five years before it is ready. The second Yasen submarine, the Kazan, was laid down in July 2009 and is currently under construction. It is expected to have more advanced equipment than the Severodvinsk and to enter service in 2015.

    Russian articles claim the Severodvinsk will be the quietest submarine in the world. The boat reportedly has new communications, navigation, and nuclear power systems as well as extensive noise reduction and stealth features. Western nuclear submarines have tended to be quieter than Soviet and Russian nuclear designs and Western experts have predicted that it will only be slightly quieter than the Akula class. The Severodvinsk is also reportedly the first Russian submarine with its torpedo tubes amidship to make way a new bow-mounted advanced sonar system.

    The Yasen’s long-range cruise missiles lead some to see it as a “carrier killer.” These SLCMs can be armed with nuclear warheads. Russian naval strategists see tactical nuclear warheads as helping to compensate for the inferior size of the Russian fleet as compared with the U.S. Navy. A tactical nuclear warhead could destroy an entire carrier task force group in seconds, which is beyond the capacity of Russia’s conventional weapons.

    Russian policy makers would naturally worry about such a conflict escalating to further nuclear exchanges, but the advantage of using a nuclear warhead against an ocean-going target is that the number of civilian casualties would be minimized and a clear firebreak would be retained since the adversary’s national territory would not be directly affected by the nuclear blast.

    But another mission for the Yasen submarines could be defending Russia’s extensive claims over the natural resources on the floor of the Arctic Ocean, which the Russian government has declared as part of its continental shelf. With its long-range cruise missiles and other weapons systems, the Severodvinsk would be able to defend large areas of the Arctic Ocean from a distance.

    The Yasen boats will probably be assigned to the larger Northern and Pacific Fleets due to their size, capabilities, and cost. Its advantages — long endurance, stealth, and cruise missiles—could be used more effectively in a larger body of water.

    Originally, the Soviet Navy wanted a total of 30 Yasen class submarines, but the Russian government only recently committed in the 2007-2015 SAP to buy two Yasen vessels, the Severodvinsk and the Kazan. In March 2011, an unnamed senior Navy official said that the service planned to acquire as many as ten Yasen class ships by 2020.

    Since then, the rising cost of the Severodvinsk class ships as well as tight funding has led many defense experts to urge the Russian Navy to find a cheaper replacement for its retiring current generation of submarines. The cost of the first Severodvinsk class boat is $1.7 billion, but the shipyard, Sevmash, was seeking to charge the Navy three times as much for the second boat, justifying the increase on inflationary trends in the defense industry related to rising prices for materials, energy, and “monopolistic” subcontractors “trying to dictate prices.”

    In early November 2011, the United Shipbuilding Corporation (USC) and the Russian Defense Ministry resolved their price dispute for the Yasen and Borey class nuclear-powered submarines. The Ministry agreed that in the future USC could select its own subcontractors rather than the Defense Ministry.

    Even if all ten Yasen submarines were built, they would not provide enough boats to replace all the Russian attack submarines that will retire in coming years. Some defense analysts suggest that Russia discontinue production of the Yasen boats after the Kazan, the second ship in the class, and then build less capable but less expensive submarines. The U.S. Navy pursued such a policy when it discontinued the building of the Sea Wolf class and began building the more economical Virginia class attack submarines.

    The Russian Navy still has several types of multi-purpose submarines inherited from the Soviet period. These include eight Oscar II class cruise missile submarines. They are armed with P-700 Granit cruise missiles designed to attack U.S. Navy carrier task forces. They may be armed with newer cruise missiles that could allow them to attack land-based targets. The Navy also has four Victor III and three Sierra attack submarines.

    The eight Akula submarines are mainly assigned to Russia’s Northern Fleet. Although the Soviet government began working on the more advanced Akula II type ship in the early 1990s, the post-Soviet collapse meant it was not until 2007 that the Russian government found sufficient funds to resume development work, starting in October 2008, to begin sea trials of the vessel.

    The Russian Navy only began receiving delivery of the first of its eight planned new Lada class diesel submarines in 2010, whose construction began over a decade ago. Developed by the Rubin Design Bureau, this new type Project 677 diesel submarine reportedly operates more quietly than the venerable Russian Kilo-class diesel-eclectic submarine, which it will replace.

    The Lada also has a longer operational range than the Kilos, which were constructed in the 1980s, and more advanced anti-ship weaponry. The Russian Navy wants to have eight Lada submarines by 2020, and more later, but problems with the propulsions systems used by the first vessel of this class, the St. Petersburg, have delayed completion of the other two ships whose construction has already begun.

    As an interim measure, the Navy is building six new improved Kilos based on a vessel that was previously only sold to other countries (such as China). They are supposed to join the Black Sea Fleet in a few years. The Black Sea Fleet, based in Sevastopol, currently has a single Project 877 Alrosa submarine. The Navy also plans to provide the Black Sea Fleet, whose operational zone incudes the Mediterranean Sea and the Gulf of Aden, with new frigates for possible use against pirates and to establish a permanent presence in the Indian Ocean.
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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  runaway on Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:09 pm

    Austin wrote:[Some defense analysts suggest that Russia discontinue production of the Yasen boats after the Kazan, the second ship in the class, and then build less capable but less expensive submarines. The U.S. Navy pursued such a policy when it discontinued the building of the Sea Wolf class and began building the more economical Virginia class attack submarines.

    Clearly these analysts are wrong, but they have a point. As someone said" new SSN`s are in the pipes".
    I think its unlikely that Russias intire submarine force will consist of SSGN`s.
    The Oscar 2 will be replaced by the Yasen, of which another 5 were ordered, to a total of 7.
    Although, and i stress that, the Yasen is both SSN and SSGN, much more multifunctional than the Oscar.

    The agile Akulas 1,2 will also be replaced, by an agile SSN. How many of this class? No idea, but i would suggest in the number around 15-20.

    That would make the submarine force of some 22-27 nuclear attack submarines, and 8 SSBN`s. Totally somewhere 35, this is credible.

    The number of SS subs would be larger than now, probably around 20, as a large part of these will be deployed in Black and Baltic seas.

    Fotnot :

    JSC Zvezdochka Ship Repair Center has completed repair works on Project 949A Antei nuclear-powered attack submarine Voronezh (K-119), told a source in defense industry to Central Navy Portal.

    SSGN Voronezh arrived in Severodvinsk for repairs in Oct 2006. Since that time, Zvezdochka shipwrights have performed dock repairs of the sub, replaced turbines, eliminated leakage in steam generator, and conducted recovery operations to prolong the sub's service life for 3 years.

    The submarine had completed shipyard's sea trials on Nov 4, 2011 and left the yard heading for permanent basing site on Nov 12, 2011.

    Her place at Zvezdochka will be taken by analogous SSGN Smolensk which has already arrived in Severodvinsk. Repair of SSGN Smolensk is expected to finish in 2014.

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Russian Patriot on Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:55 pm


    Russian Navy to receive 1st Graney class attack sub by end of 2012

    The delivery of the first Graney class nuclear-powered multipurpose attack submarine to the Russian Navy has been postponed until the end of 2012 due to additional tests of its weapons systems, the Sevmash shipyard said.

    Construction of the Severodvinsk submarine began in 1993 at the Sevmash shipyard in the northern Russian city of Severodvinsk but has since been dogged by financial setbacks. It was floated out in June last year and has undergone two sets of sea trials.

    “The delivery of the [Severodvinsk submarine] to the Defense Ministry has been postponed until next year,” Sevmash General Director Andrei Dyachkov said on Friday in an exclusive interview with RIA Novosti.

    Dyachkov said the testing of the submarine’s weaponry required at least six months of additional sea trials in 2012.

    “The submarine itself showed a good performance [during previous trials],” the official said. “It will be commissioned by the end of 2012.”

    Graney class nuclear submarines are designed to launch a variety of long-range cruise missiles (up to 3,100 miles or 5,000 km), with conventional or nuclear warheads, and effectively engage submarines, surface warships and land-based targets.

    The submarine's armament includes 24 cruise missiles and eight torpedo launchers, as well as mines and anti-ship missiles.

    Meanwhile, the construction of the second Graney class submarine, the Kazan, at the Sevmash is going according to schedule.

    The Kazan will feature more advanced equipment and weaponry than the Severodvinsk, and can be considered as a prototype of modernized Graney-M class submarines.

    Dyachkov said on Friday that Sevmash would start building a series of five advanced Graney-M class attack submarines in 2012 under a recent contract between the Russian United Shipbuilding Corporation and the Defense Ministry.

    http://www.en.ria.ru/mlitary_news/20111203/169275854.html

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Austin on Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:04 pm

    So a delay of a year , I just hope Yasen comes out well and restores the acoustic parity with sub that Russia lost to US with the development of Sea Wolf and Virgnia.

    I am sure when Yasen is commisioned we would see Western news paper with scare mongering and sensational news and views on this.
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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  GarryB on Sun Dec 04, 2011 12:06 am

    Well, technically the Russians didn't really take seriously the silencing their subs till about the Victor series, as they hadn't realised how capable the western submarine detection capability had become with computers etc.
    They only started getting competitive in terms of silencing with the Victor III, and with the Sierra and Akula they reached levels the west had worked long and hard to achieve.
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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Viktor on Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:16 pm

    By 2012 there will be 7 Yasen with hypersonic speed and range of 1000km .. huh I almost forget

    to mention maneuvering warheads Very Happy


    04/25/12 RUSSIA RECEIVES SEVEN SUBMARINES "ASH" IN 2021
    April 25 2012 .

    Lenta.ru. Ministry of Defense of Russia to 2021 will receive seven drums of nuclear submarines of project 885 "Yasen". According to ITAR-TASS reported , citing a source in the Military-Industrial Commission under the Government of Russia, the six new submarines will be equipped with less noisy and enhanced missile systems.

    According to the source agency, the first nuclear submarine project, "Severodvinsk" will complete the test in 2012 and will join the Navy. In 2015 construction of the head end of the project 885M submarines modernized "Kazan" low noise levels laid down in 2009. By 2021, the project will be constructed 885M five submarines worth 150 billion rubles.

    The total cost of seven submarines of "Ash" exceeds 200 billion rubles. As the source of ITAR-TASS, a nuclear submarine project 885M worth a half to two times more submarines of Project 955 "Borey" .

    "Project 885M submarines will be equipped with hypersonic missiles with maneuvering warheads with a range of up to one thousand kilometers, deep-homing torpedoes, rocket-torpedoes and other weapons, the latest electronic equipment, sonar system, communications and navigation. Noise of such submarines is much lower than one type of Russian and foreign submarines. In fact, this generation will be nuclear submarines '4 + '. "- said the agency interlocutor.

    Multipurpose nuclear submarine of project 885 "Severodvinsk" is designed Petersburg Bureau of Machine Building "Malachite". The ship was laid down on the "Sevmash" in 1993 and launched on June 15, 2010.

    The submarine has a displacement of 9.5 thousand tons, a length of 120 meters and the maximum depth of immersion 600 meters . The submarine is designed for 85-man crew and can reach speeds of up to 57 kilometers per hour underwater.

    Torpedo tubes on the submarine project 885 "Yasen" compartment located behind the central post, so that the bow of the submarine sonar could place an antenna. For the missile is provided 24 vertical launchers.

    Submarine project "Yasen" designed to destroy enemy submarines, including strategic nuclear icebreakers and naval groups, naval bases, ports and other objects of the enemy.

    In February, reported the Defense Ministry plans to arm themselves in the state defense order for 2011-2020 ten submarines of project 885 "Yasen".
    http://www.lenta.ru
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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  GarryB on Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:46 pm

    By 2012 there will be 7 Yasen with hypersonic speed and range of 1000km .. huh I almost forget

    to mention maneuvering warheads

    If they are talking about the new scramjet powered Onyx II or Brahmos II then this is very interesting because I would assume such a weapon would be launched from a standard UKSK launch bin, which means an upgraded Oscar II with 72 launch tubes for Onyx suddenly becomes a devastatingly powerful vessel on its own. The use of remote sensing satellites and a network of other platforms able to provide target data mean that an Oscar II will be able to dominate an enormous area of sea.

    Most will say that such a system is vulnerable to anti satellite weapons, but remote sensing satellites with IR sensors high up in geostationary orbit could be used for initial target data and they would be well above the engagement height of most ASAT systems like SM-3... and more importantly unless it is WWIII I rather doubt anyone will want to cross that line unless it was really necessary as you make your own satellites vulnerable to counter attack, so for instance the US would not attack the satellites over Syria or even Iran because the effect of retaliation against their satellite network could leave them largely blind...

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Austin on Thu Apr 26, 2012 7:10 pm

    It would be a great technological breakthrough if they could develop a Hypersonic Missile with 1000 km range with manouvering warhead.
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    By 2012 there will be 7 Yasen with hypersonic speed and range of 1000km .. huh I almost forget

    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:47 am

    Actually that is a factor... manouvering warhead...

    Why talk about a manouvering warhead... as opposed to a terminally manouvering missile.

    I suspect the fact that Oniks is not hypersonic, and Oniks II/Brahmos II is not operational let alone even in tests yet that they might be talking about the supersonic version of Klub where the body is a subsonic cruise missile and they payload is a supersonic warhead with control surfaces and seeker and of course large HE payload.

    The export models have a range of about 220km but their performance is restricted by various export agreements that limit range and payload of exported missiles.

    The domestic Klub cruise missile has a range of 2,500km... compared with the 290km range of the export equivalent, so would it be logical to assume therefore that the domestic version of the supersonic Klub has a range of 1,000km when the export missile can reach 220km?

    This of course raises targeting issues and worst case is a target 1,000km away that is steaming at full speed (they normally wont because that makes too much noise and their supporting vessels like subs are not very effective at detecting targets when they are doing 30knts+ so a more normal speed might be 25knts which is very fast compared with civilian traffic... ironically it will make military vessels stand out from civilian vessels of course and it will mean any support vessels will be left behind fairly quickly.

    A more realistic speed might be 16knts so lets do then both... 16 and 25.

    25knts is about 47km/h and 16knts is just under 30km/h.

    A Klub cruise missile has... according to its spec sheet a cruise speed of 240m/s so if we assume it climbs to medium altitude to maximise range and flys to 700km from the target area at 220m/s in a fuel saving throttle setting to maximise range and then drops down to low altitude and continues towards the target at full throttle for max speed at 240m/s then when it gets to 50km from the target the rocket stage is launched and accelerates up to "at least" 700m/s. Most references I have seen have quoted mach 2.9 though this claim of hypersonic would require mach 5 or faster though it might just be that hypersonic has become fashionable like stealth in terms of marketing.

    So (700km divided by .220) plus (250km divided by .240) plus (70km divided by (320 times 2.9)) = time in seconds from launch to impact. So that is 3182 + 1042 + 54 = 4278 seconds which is about 71 minutes.

    now in 71 minutes a ship travelling at 25 knots can cover about 57km and a ship travelling at 16knts can cover about 35.5km.

    Is that a problem? Not really. Ships are not sports cars and cannot change direction very quickly, and unless they are in open ocean their options in terms of directions they can sail s not infinite. When first detected and identified as targets their speed would be recorded so it is not like the missile would be launched to hit them where they were and arrive to find they are 57km away. If operating at 16knts when the missile is launched the missiles will be guiding initially to a point about 35km in front of where they are currently... if at that moment the whole group decides to accelerate to 25 knots and if the missiles launched get no further information when the missiles flying at medium height start looking for targets they will simply be 25km closer than they expected... the missile will still drop down but will accelerate to max speed and launch its warhead earlier than if the target had been further away.

    I would rather suspect that they if they are going to put 72 missiles into a single Oscar II that they could have one subsonic anti ship Klub fly high at full throttle on a dogleg path so it approaches the enemy vessels from a false direction (ie not the direction back to the sub that launched the missiles and more importantly not the direction the supersonic missiles are going to be arriving from). This high flying subsonic missile could listen for targets and onces it is close it could scan for targets with its radar and transmit its radar picture back to the supersonic missiles behind it (they will be behind it because not being a full throttle and flying lower it will take them longer to reach the target area). Even if the enemy shoots down the first missile it should have time to pass on critical target data live to the supersonic missiles, so they will have up to date information about the enemy ships which will now have to deal with 71 missiles screaming over the horizon at wavetop height at over 950m/s... and in a few years there will be Oniks-2/Brahmos-2
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    Project 885: Yasen

    Post  George1 on Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:08 am

    http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=15017

    Russian defense ministry plans to obtain seven Project 885 Yasen nuclear-powered cruise missile submarines (SSGN) by 2021. Last six new subs will be more silent and armed with stronger missiles, reports ITAR-TASS referring to a source in the government's military-industrial committee.

    According to the interviewee, the first Yasen-class submarine – SSGN Severodvinsk – will finish trials and join Russian Navy in 2012. Lead sub of upgraded Project 885M laid down in 2009, low-noise SSGN Kazan will be completed in 2015. Other five subs of this project to the overall amount of RUR 150 bln will be built for Russian Navy by 2021.

    Total cost of seven Yasen-class subs exceeds RUR 200 bln. According to the source, one Project 885M sub costs as much as 1.5-2 submarines of Project 955 Borei.

    "Project 885M subs will have hypersonic cruise missiles with maneuvering warheads capable to fly up to 1,000 km, deepwater homing torpedoes, rocket torpedoes and other arms, up-to-date radioelectronics, sonar system, communication and navigation facilities. Such subs will be much more silent than analogous Russian and foreign submarines", said the interviewee.

    Project 885 nuclear-powered cruise missile submarine Severodvinsk was developed by the Malakhit Design Bureau in St. Petersburg. The sub was laid down at Sevmash shipyard in 1993 and launched on June 15, 2010.

    Displacement is 9,500 tons; length is 120 meters; test depth is 600 meters; crew is 85; submerged speed is up to 32 knots.

    Torpedo tubes are placed behind central station which makes room for larger bow sonar antenna. There are 8 vertical launchers for missile arms.

    Yasen-class submarines are designed for attacking enemy subs, including nuclear ballistic missile ones, surface ship groups, naval bases, ports, and other assets.

    It was reported in Feb 2012 that Russian defense ministry was planning to purchase ten Project 885 Yasen submarines under State Arms Program 2011-2020.


    Last edited by George1 on Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:03 pm; edited 2 times in total
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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  George1 on Fri Apr 27, 2012 7:10 am

    George1 wrote:

    "Project 885M subs will have hypersonic cruise missiles with maneuvering warheads capable to fly up to 1,000 km, deepwater homing torpedoes, rocket torpedoes and other arms, up-to-date radioelectronics, sonar system, communication and navigation facilities. Such subs will be much more silent than analogous Russian and foreign submarines", said the interviewee.


    3M-14E Klub missile isn't supersonic. What kind of missile could be then?
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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  GarryB on Fri Apr 27, 2012 11:32 am

    3M-54 has a supersonic warhead... and this article mentions a supersonic warhead.

    No other missile has a separating warhead so I think that is the model they are talking about.
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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  TR1 on Fri Apr 27, 2012 10:04 pm

    It will be a new missile. Tskiron or Brahmos-2.
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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  GarryB on Sat Apr 28, 2012 12:45 am

    Brahmos II hasn't even flown yet...

    Plus talk of a manouvering warhead?

    Why call it a warhead?

    Perhaps they have developed a new version of 3M-54 that has a much more powerful rocket motor and is actually hypersonic?
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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  TR1 on Sat Apr 28, 2012 1:40 am

    Most of the Russian reports state the missile is hypersonic (not just final stage) and it is a new weapon, so I think this is a clean slate project, not a Klub/Kaliber family item.

    Plus, this is for the 885M, which implies : Project has time to develop, since Kazan ain't close to being finished yet. Plus, it doesn't have to be ready by the time the first 885M boat is ready anyways, if we go by previous naval weapons trends.
    Also, that the 885M might have some major differences from Severodvinsk in terms of the VLS tubes.
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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  George1 on Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:58 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    Also, that the 885M might have some major differences from Severodvinsk in terms of the VLS tubes.

    Kazan is separated from the Severodvinsk by 16 years (1993-2009) so considerable changes are made to its design.

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    Re: Project 885: Yasen class

    Post  Austin on Tue May 01, 2012 6:55 am

    Pr 885M Kazan are classified as 4 + Generation submarine

    Talking of hypersonic missile , this is a new missile which is all hypersonic perhaps the Zircon-S.

    The manouvering warhead of club is not really a warhead but a missile in true sense , which has guidance , propulsion and warhead . So its more like 2 stage missile.

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