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    Project 945: Sierra class

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    George1
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    Project 945: Sierra class

    Post  George1 on Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:51 pm

    Russia to Resurrect Titanium Submarines

    MOSCOW, March 5 (RIA Novosti) - The Russian Navy will refit, modernize and recommission two Sierra class (Project 945) titanium-hull nuclear-powered attack submarines by 2017, the Zvezdochka shipyard said on Tuesday.

    The Sierra class has a light and strong titanium pressure hull, enabling these boats to dive to depths of up to 550 meters (1800 feet) and enhancing their survivability, as well as having a low magnetic signature.

    A total of four Project 945 and 945A submarines were built in Russia. In addition to the Karp and the Kostroma, the Pskov and the Nizhny Novgorod were built in the early 1990's and are currently in service with the Northern Fleet.

    The K-239 Karp (Carp) was the first Project 945 (Barrakuda) submarine, which entered service with the Soviet Navy in 1984.

    The K-276 Kostroma was commissioned in 1986 and had to be repaired after a February 11, 1992 collision with the American submarine USS Baton Rouge (SSN-689) while on patrol off Kildin Island near Severomorsk. The US Navy said the collision occurred more than 12 miles (22 km) from shore, in international waters.

    The shipyard signed a modernization contract for the Karp and the Kostroma with the Defense Ministry in December 2012 , a Zvezdochka representative told RIA Novosti.

    Karp has been sitting at the shipyard since 1994, he said, adding the submarine’s titanium hull “is in a very good condition” but a significant part of its equipment is missing.

    The submarines’ sonar and navigation systems will be replaced and their reactors refuelled, he said.


    Last edited by George1 on Tue May 26, 2015 3:56 am; edited 2 times in total

    runaway
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    Re: Project 945: Sierra class

    Post  runaway on Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:49 pm

    Is this a good idea? How about lifetime service life, how long can they stay in service?
    What i can see, the weapon systems needs a major refit and modernizating. Also i think just refuelling the reactor is not enough, this boat needs to become much quiter if its not to be a sitting duck.
    Essentially, they need to keep the hull, but replace everything else..

    Why do this? Perhaps the Yasen is becoming so expensive that this is a cost effective way to supply the submarine fleet with capable? and modern? boats.

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    Re: Project 945: Sierra class

    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:59 am

    Is this a good idea? How about lifetime service life, how long can they stay in service?
    What i can see, the weapon systems needs a major refit and modernizating. Also i think just refuelling the reactor is not enough, this boat needs to become much quiter if its not to be a sitting duck.

    The Sierras were the expensive boats, compared with the cheaper Schukas.

    The service lifetime of a boat is usually determined by the hull condition and with a Titanium hull the Sierras should be good for quite some time.

    The biggest problem with older boats is the electronics because keeping 1980s computer hardware going is full time work and actually quite expensive. A full electronics upgrade and these boats should be very capable vessels.

    With these upgrades these Sierra subs would be the best Submarines available for any navy except the US and Russia. Not a sitting duck with new sonar and weapons.

    Why do this? Perhaps the Yasen is becoming so expensive that this is a cost effective way to supply the submarine fleet with capable? and modern? boats.

    Because the upgrades and improvements can be done in small yards normally not used for building subs so this upgrade means no interruption of new boats, yet offers a very capable sub with very unique capabilities at a reduced price. The Titanium alone in the hull of these vessels would mean making one would cost 4-5 billion or more, and the result is that MAD type sensors on the ocean floor will not detect this sub... useful?


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    Austin
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    Re: Project 945: Sierra class

    Post  Austin on Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:44 pm

    Since they are refuelling the Reactors I would assume the Upgraded Sierra will get atleast 10 more years of service life and possibly more depending on how often they are used.

    Sierra and Akula would be upgraded to the same standard and besides upgraded Sonar , C&C , new Torpedoes and Decoys they would most certainly get the sublaunched Kalbir SLCM. Not a bad deal to keep up with the numbers and since Yasen is an expensive beast and only 7 will be built before 2020 and they are designing a small SSN which are cheaper and can be mass produce upgraded Sierra would be a good stop gap arrangement

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    Re: Project 945: Sierra class

    Post  TheArmenian on Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:03 pm

    The Sierra has one advantage that Yasen will never have: Titanium hulls.

    Titanium is not only stealthy to MAD sensors but also it allows a greater diving depth.

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    Re: Project 945: Sierra class

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:23 pm

    Will the sierra be upgraded to fire the clubs?

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    Re: Project 945: Sierra class

    Post  TR1 on Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:01 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Will the sierra be upgraded to fire the clubs?

    *Kalibr, and yes most likely, if trends are anything to go by.

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    Re: Project 945: Sierra class

    Post  George1 on Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:52 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:The Sierra has one advantage that Yasen will never have: Titanium hulls.

    Titanium is not only stealthy to MAD sensors but also it allows a greater diving depth.

    what about speed?

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    Re: Project 945: Sierra class

    Post  GarryB on Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:36 am

    what about speed?

    Sierra will likely be faster, but noisy at very high speed. Yasen will be slower but much quieter at higher speeds.


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    Re: Project 945: Sierra class

    Post  Austin on Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:12 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:The Sierra has one advantage that Yasen will never have: Titanium hulls.

    Titanium is not only stealthy to MAD sensors but also it allows a greater diving depth.

    They Demagmatisize the suss so the problem of MAD sensor is less of an issue , perhaps one of the reason why the newest US P-8A dont have MAD sensors at all.

    Titanium allows you to dive deeper thats certainly one advantage , but Akula can dive as deep as 550-600 m which is quite good , Diving 200 m more wont be a big advantage.

    Yasen is a different beast altogether can really compare with Sierra class or Akula , In much the same way you cant compare a PAK-FA with a Mig-29

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    Re: Project 945: Sierra class

    Post  TheArmenian on Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:32 pm

    Austin wrote:
    Titanium allows you to dive deeper thats certainly one advantage , but Akula can dive as deep as 550-600 m which is quite good , Diving 200 m more wont be a big advantage.
    Can the oponent's AS torpedo go an extra 200m deeper?

    Yasen is a different beast altogether can really compare with Sierra class or Akula , In much the same way you cant compare a PAK-FA with a Mig-29
    Agreed on the first part of your sentence.
    In my opinion, it is not the generation difference that sets the difference between Akula/Sierra and Yasen. Yasen mission profiles encompasses those of the Akulas/Sierras as well as those of the Oscars. In other words Yasen is a true SSGN while the Akula/Sierra are more SSN.

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    Re: Project 945: Sierra class

    Post  Austin on Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:39 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:Can the oponent's AS torpedo go an extra 200m deeper?

    AFAIK NATO Torpedoes were designed to go deeper to hunt Russian Titanium submarine , So yes they can go deeper.

    Yasen is a true SSGN while the Akula/Sierra are mre SSN.

    True , Yasen Embodies the best qualities of an SSN and SSGN into a single platform atleast to the extent its a 4th Gen submarine comparable to any similar Western/US submarine but with far greater firepower

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    Re: Project 945: Sierra class

    Post  GarryB on Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:30 am

    perhaps one of the reason why the newest US P-8A dont have MAD sensors at all.

    MAD sensors are not long range sensors... they are often only used to confirm the existence of a contact (as opposed to a large group of fish, or whale on a sonar image).


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    Re: Project 945: Sierra class

    Post  Austin on Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:57 pm

    Characteristics submarine Project 945 and 945A will be significantly improved

    Titanium multipurpose nuclear submarines (SSNs) Project 945 "Barracuda" and 945A "Condor" (NATO - Sierra-I and Sierra-II, respectively) after the repair and modernization of the deep on the technical characteristics are comparable with submarines 4th Generation Project 885M "Ash-M", said Tuesday, "Interfax" a source in the Russian military-industrial complex (MIC).

    "In early March, the Ministry of Defense and Ship Repair Center Severodvinsk" asterisk "signed a contract for the restoration of the technical readiness through repair and modernization of two decommissioned nuclear submarines of the Northern Fleet Titanium" Carp "and" Kostroma "Project 945, built in the 80's of the last century. First, will be repaired and returned to the fleet "Carp", then - "Kostroma", - said the source.

    "When the final work on the second submarine Defense and" asterisk "sign another contract - the repair and modernization of two titanium submarine" Pskov "and" Nizhny Novgorod "Project 945A, which are now in the Standby Force and the Navy are deployed in Sea, "- he added.

    "Barracuda" and "Condor" after repair and modernization will have the performance characteristics of the fourth-generation submarines by the fact that after all the work from the initial configuration to the factory received submarines remain almost exclusively solid corps of titanium alloy and the mechanical parts, the latter will undergo repairs "- said the source.

    According to him, "all the stuffing submarines - Shock missiles to nuclear reactors - will be completely replaced by the new, the same or similar to its parameters to the one fitted with upgraded" Ash. "

    He noted that the decision of a gradual recovery and the return of the Standby Force of the Navy of the four titanium submarines - first two "Barracuda", and then the two "Condor" - made by the Ministry of Defense of Russia in January this year due to the poor general state of affairs in Navy, and above all - due to the non-arrival for a long time in the Navy new ships. As one of the ways out of this situation was considered expedient to repair and upgrade titanium submarines.

    "The decision of the General Staff of the Navy, supported by the Ministry of Defense, it is appropriate, as repair and upgrade existing submarine, including titanium, about two times faster than build new ones. This will require less financial cost, "- said the source.

    According to him, the submarine "Carp", which is the first to go to the repair of "*" is still at idle and work on it has not started yet. "Submarine inspection as the first part of the repair is scheduled to begin in the summer. Money plant for contract work are highlighted, "- he said.

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    Re: Project 945: Sierra class

    Post  GarryB on Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:34 pm

    Excellent, so they are keeping the Ti hull and replacing everything, from sensors, weapons, propulsion, machinery with new stuff.

    That means they should be as fast as the new subs and as quiet and as deadly.

    Another advantage is that their systems will be standard with other new vessels and they will join the network rather than be attached to it.


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    Re: Project 945: Sierra class

    Post  TR1 on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:49 am

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:Will the sierra be upgraded to fire the clubs?

    http://lenta.ru/news/2013/03/12/kondor/

    " В частности, «Барракуды» и «Кондоры» получат комплексы крылатых ракет «Калибр»."

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    Re: Project 945: Sierra class

    Post  GarryB on Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:27 am

    For those that don't read Cyrillic:

    Калибр

    К is K
    а is a
    л is l
    и is i
    б is b
    р is r

    Kalibr is the 2,500km range missile the (for export) Klub or Club is based upon.


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    Re: Project 945: Sierra class

    Post  Austin on Wed Mar 13, 2013 7:13 am

    The Akula and Sierra class are being upgraded to 4th Gen Standards which is quite good , Put in new Sonars , Decoys , Torpedoes 4th Gen UGST-M and Kalbir makes it very potent.

    TR1 now we know all the Sierra class are being upgraded what about Akula class any news on how many will be upgraded ?

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    Re: Project 945: Sierra class

    Post  Viktor on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:32 pm

    Austin wrote:The Akula and Sierra class are being upgraded to 4th Gen Standards which is quite good , Put in new Sonars , Decoys , Torpedoes 4th Gen UGST-M and Kalbir makes it very potent.

    TR1 now we know all the Sierra class are being upgraded what about Akula class any news on how many will be upgraded ?

    Delta class is almost all modernized with new weapon and systems and all of Borei class might be ready by 2018 already.

    I think that next in line for modernization is Oscar class and some of them are passing it as we speak.

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    Re: Project 945: Sierra class

    Post  TR1 on Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:35 am

    http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/2162/subsierraiileftb336psko.jpg

    Man that sail is ugly.

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    Re: Project 945: Sierra class

    Post  Austin on Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:40 am

    The sail is broader in Sierra because it has 2 escape tower in the sail if i am not wrong.

    Akula is hydrodynamically more refined design

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    Re: Project 945: Sierra class

    Post  TR1 on Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:24 pm

    http://www.zato-a.ru/upload/medialibrary/3e8/.jpg

    Nice photo of a 945A sub.

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    Re: Project 945: Sierra class

    Post  KomissarBojanchev on Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:26 pm

    Austin wrote:Secret or not but Yasen does not have 650 mm tube and the last Akula by Russian Navy Gepard does not have 650 mm Tube both have 533 mm TT.

    Thats a good indication we might not see the likes of 650 mm Torpedoes in the future

    That sucks. how will the launch onyx missiles then?

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    Re: Project 945: Sierra class

    Post  TR1 on Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:35 pm

    KomissarBojanchev wrote:
    Austin wrote:Secret or not but Yasen does not have 650 mm tube and the last Akula by Russian Navy Gepard does not have 650 mm Tube both have 533 mm TT.

    Thats a good indication we might not see the likes of 650 mm Torpedoes in the future

    That sucks. how will the launch onyx missiles then?

    The 24 vertical tubes.

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    Re: Project 945: Sierra class

    Post  TR1 on Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:52 pm

    Good news, the modernization of the boats will see their service life extended by 10 years.
    Contract is already signed.

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