GarryB wrote:My main problem with the chart is that it doesn't actually list the scale of noise, it just says it is in decibels.
As such the scattering of subs on the chart mean little except the downward slope suggests they are all getting quieter... which is a given anyway.
These are just trends and not a ballpark figure ,even if scale were to be provided it would be little value.
I find it hard to believe to believe that Australian Collins are being rated in noise equal to advanced Kilo when they were mentioned as Rock Band under water by Western media and German U-212 being rated lower then adv Kilo when it should be on par or better.
There are reactors that use natural circulation for cooling, but at the end of the day lots of noises on subs like opening torpedo doors, pumping water into and out of ballast tanks for trim, propeller noise, mechanical noise is going to be less on an electric than on any other type. Non nukes have their advantages especially in shallow waters because of their smaller size and manoeuvre capability and of course cost, but their fundamental advantage is in their reduced noise signature because electric motors make very little noise even at full power.
Yes I am aware of the use of natural circulation at slow speed but those noises from ballast , motors , trip etc affect conventional and nuclear subs and a nuclear subs have much bigger sonars and other sensors to catch up such noises compared to conventional subs.
Conventional subs are good for choke and intelligence gathering operations.
If that were true then the US could simply test its anti sub capability against its own nuclear power subs instead of inviting European and Australian conventional subs to exercise with them so they can practise operating against conventional subs.
It seems these tests were useful and the USN has invited a European country to keep sending its subs for exercises.
They do lot of test viz a viz conventional subs against Australian or European countries , these are tactics , weapons ,how to play ball in shallow waters and even open seas , lot of stuff besides noise , A sub is more then just noise.
What would be the point if diesel electrics were noisier than nukes?
because its cheaper to build and operate ,very few countries can build and operate quality nuke subs and with AIP the conventional subs are getting better and as I said submarine is more then noise , Tactics , Weapons ,Training and Doctrine play an equal role.
Yes, I know about running silent on a sub, but even running on silent in a nuke and a diesel electric are not the same thing... in a nuke you keep the reactor running which means noise. In a diesel electric that means running on electric which is much quieter clearly... even in a natural circulation reactor there is the noise of fluids moving that doesn't sound like other things in the ocean.
Nuke Subs do have battery on them to provide powers and they have small creeper propellers one can see in Akula that gives them slow speed.
All things being equal which I have mentioned above a 4th gen Conventional Sub like Lada will have its own advantage over 4th gen Yasen in shallow water operation.
So conventional subs do have an edge in specific roles.
There are lobbies in the US that think universal healthcare is communism too.
I think that was also a reason Democrat got defeated in recent Senate elections , health care is good as long as it can profit the big companies out there.
A kilo could probably operate for 4-5 days on batteries before having to recharge... that is plenty of time to sit and wait for the right target or lay mines and sneak away to recharge.
The Kilos are quite potent subs and can do many different task and these days they even come with Klub.