Russian Su-24 shootdown by Turkish Air Force F-16 fighter

You know, what I fail to understand is the reasoning behind Erdogan's assessment at the start of the Syrian mess which led to him practically destroying all relations with Syria, and starting to support Sunni islamist radicals and calling for the head of Assad? Prior to this whole Syrian mess, the diplomatic relations b/w Syria and Turkey were excellent (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria%E2%80%93Turkey_relations#History), and were only getting better. What reason could there be to suddenly throw all this diplomatic investment into the rubbish heap and effectively become the enemy of Syria? As far as I know, no anti-Turkish coup happened in Syria and Assad wasn't attacking the torkomans (unlike Ukraines recent actions). Heck, if Turkey actually supported Assad from the very beginning, Assad would be practically eating out of Erdo's hands by now for saving him from KSA. In such a scenario, if the Turks would have offered more assistance than Iran, it would have been likely that Syria would have left Iran's sphere of influence for Turkey. The interesting thing is, Erdo managed to sell this massive schizophrenia in his foreign policy to most of the population of Turkey.

Hassan Ridha ‏@sayed_ridha 4h4 hours ago
#RuAF #Russia #Syria

Acheron wrote:You know, what I fail to understand is the reasoning behind Erdogan's assessment at the start of the Syrian mess which led to him practically destroying all relations with Syria, and starting to support Sunni islamist radicals and calling for the head of Assad? Prior to this whole Syrian mess, the diplomatic relations b/w Syria and Turkey were excellent (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria%E2%80%93Turkey_relations#History), and were only getting better. What reason could there be to suddenly throw all this diplomatic investment into the rubbish heap and effectively become the enemy of Syria? As far as I know, no anti-Turkish coup happened in Syria and Assad wasn't attacking the torkomans (unlike Ukraines recent actions). Heck, if Turkey actually supported Assad from the very beginning, Assad would be practically eating out of Erdo's hands by now for saving him from KSA. The interesting thing is, Erdo managed to sell this massive schizophrenia in his foreign policy to most of the population of Turkey.

It dates the Killing of Hariri.

There was short feud but after it calmed down in surface. Erdogan former movement was behind a lot of Islamic charities that mined Syria.

Acheron wrote:You know, what I fail to understand is the reasoning behind Erdogan's assessment at the start of the Syrian mess which led to him practically destroying all relations with Syria, and starting to support Sunni islamist radicals and calling for the head of Assad? Prior to this whole Syrian mess, the diplomatic relations b/w Syria and Turkey were excellent (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria%E2%80%93Turkey_relations#History), and were only getting better. What reason could there be to suddenly throw all this diplomatic investment into the rubbish heap and effectively become the enemy of Syria? As far as I know, no anti-Turkish coup happened in Syria and Assad wasn't attacking the torkomans (unlike Ukraines recent actions). Heck, if Turkey actually supported Assad from the very beginning, Assad would be practically eating out of Erdo's hands by now for saving him from KSA. In such a scenario, if the Turks would have offered more assistance than Iran, it would have been likely that Syria would have left Iran's sphere of influence for Turkey. The interesting thing is, Erdo managed to sell this massive schizophrenia in his foreign policy to most of the population of Turkey.

I debated this with a pro-AKP/Erdogan Turkish friend of mine and he thinks it boils down to Erdogan's personality: Assad turned him down to negotiate an end to the uprising in the beginning of the conflict, and he took it personally and henceforth launched the Turkish meddling effort. Even said friend thinks Erdogan made a mistake there.

PapaDragon wrote:

flamming_python wrote:Wonder how you guys would react if we had a bunch of people here from Poland, Baltic states, Finland, etc... calling for Russians to be mass-murdered and Russia to be broken up due to past transgressions and imperialism against their countries in the 19th century or WW2 or whatever.

Please don't make this forum into a cesspool for your filth.

Ehmm, hello? Have you been reading Internet at all since it was invented?

That is EXACTLY what they are calling for 24/7.

Hi.



I think he was talking about this particular forum ("here"), not about the internet as a whole.

Acheron wrote:You know, what I fail to understand is the reasoning behind Erdogan's assessment at the start of the Syrian mess which led to him practically destroying all relations with Syria, and starting to support Sunni islamist radicals and calling for the head of Assad? Prior to this whole Syrian mess, the diplomatic relations b/w Syria and Turkey were excellent , and were only getting better. What reason could there be to suddenly throw all this diplomatic investment into the rubbish heap and effectively become the enemy of Syria? As far as I know, no anti-Turkish coup happened in Syria and Assad wasn't attacking the torkomans (unlike Ukraines recent actions). Heck, if Turkey actually supported Assad from the very beginning, Assad would be practically eating out of Erdo's hands by now for saving him from KSA. The interesting thing is, Erdo managed to sell this massive schizophrenia in his foreign policy to most of the population of Turkey.

Its not that easy. Its complicated. At first we kept out of this until Assad fired rockets over our boarder.

Evrything now is ruined and i don´t know what can be done to make things better.

McInerney: Turkey Shooting Down Russian Plane Was a 'Very Bad Mistake'

http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/11/24/lt-gen-mcinerney-turkey-shooting-down-russian-plane-was-very-bad-mistake

Watch before you judge the link people! The former general is very correct!

Shadåw wrote:McInerney: Turkey Shooting Down Russian Plane Was a 'Very Bad Mistake'

http://insider.foxnews.com/2015/11/24/lt-gen-mcinerney-turkey-shooting-down-russian-plane-was-very-bad-mistake

Watch before you judge the link people! The former general is very correct!

Forget about the hopeless stupidity of the interviewer. McInerney is a pro. He is diplomatically saying that Turkey screwed up BIG time. Kindergarten stuff. This is from a Pentagon hawk. On Fox. No wonder the producers were telling the interviewer to wrap it up - FAST.

Acheron wrote:You know, what I fail to understand is the reasoning behind Erdogan's assessment at the start of the Syrian mess which led to him practically destroying all relations with Syria, and starting to support Sunni islamist radicals and calling for the head of Assad? Prior to this whole Syrian mess, the diplomatic relations b/w Syria and Turkey were excellent (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria%E2%80%93Turkey_relations#History), and were only getting better. What reason could there be to suddenly throw all this diplomatic investment into the rubbish heap and effectively become the enemy of Syria? As far as I know, no anti-Turkish coup happened in Syria and Assad wasn't attacking the torkomans (unlike Ukraines recent actions). Heck, if Turkey actually supported Assad from the very beginning, Assad would be practically eating out of Erdo's hands by now for saving him from KSA. The interesting thing is, Erdo managed to sell this massive schizophrenia in his foreign policy to most of the population of Turkey.

Greed. Money!
KSA/US/Europe offered him some big wet dreams.

We cant also decouple it from the Geostrategic games of the US. Also remember that the Syrian 'uprising" happened after Russia announced the reopening/re-energizing the Tartous base for its navy the previous year or more...and that announcement (which I still believe was stupid!) was without any combat capable naval assets to put its weight behind. I personally believe such announcements need to be publicized only after you have kept ready the assets and ready to move in/already in which prevents the other parties from pre-empting to sabotage such basing. Syria "uprising" was also meant to sabotage this new revived Russian presence/influence in the Mediterranean along with other objectives.

I think Russia learnt from that lesson and that probably reflects in what we saw with their current counter-terrorist deployment to Syria.

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Acheron wrote:You know, what I fail to understand is the reasoning behind Erdogan's assessment at the start of the Syrian mess which led to him practically destroying all relations with Syria, and starting to support Sunni islamist radicals and calling for the head of Assad? Prior to this whole Syrian mess, the diplomatic relations b/w Syria and Turkey were excellent (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syria%E2%80%93Turkey_relations#History), and were only getting better. What reason could there be to suddenly throw all this diplomatic investment into the rubbish heap and effectively become the enemy of Syria? As far as I know, no anti-Turkish coup happened in Syria and Assad wasn't attacking the torkomans (unlike Ukraines recent actions). Heck, if Turkey actually supported Assad from the very beginning, Assad would be practically eating out of Erdo's hands by now for saving him from KSA. The interesting thing is, Erdo managed to sell this massive schizophrenia in his foreign policy to most of the population of Turkey.

It dates the Killing of Hariri.

There was short feud but after it calmed down in surface. Erdogan former movement was behind a lot of Islamic charities that mined Syria.

Interesting, I can't readily see any apparent connection b/w Rafic Hariri and Turkey which might warrant a cooling of relations b/w Syria and Turkey after the assasination. Could you point out any sources that might help me to understand?

KoTeMoRe wrote:

Militarov wrote:http://theaviationist.com/2015/11/24/audio-tuaf-warns-ruaf-su-24/

So...they warned them 10 times or once like this crappy audio shows? Coz i hear them speak in broken english only once. Also they seriously should get better audio recorders this thing has worse quality than throat microphone i used in the army and they were models from 70s.

For the navigator : zero calls.
From official Turkish version each 30 seconds for 5 minutes, however, now there's an issue. When did that happened? Before they finally crossed or before and during.
According to well informed sources: only twice.

By the protocole i had to follow back in time, we inform unknown aircraft minute or two before they would reach our border at current speed, if they enter our airspace we continue doing so, if its actual fighter or military transport info from VOJIN goes directly to Belgrade Air force Command and from their command room two fighters can be sent to intercept, pilots try their radios if not they go to visual identification coz its possible enemy craft has issues with radio or navigation equipment or maybe pilot has health issues (happens).

If its some small sport craft or student pilot or light passenger aircraft they are just being tracked whole time in case of emergency. Naturally whole this situation is being monitored by civilian air control too.

This looks to be the start of the economic damage. Not sure if its Kiev stirring it but sounds true.

A poll conducted by Interfax shows that all leading Russian tour operators have suspended the sale of tours to Turkey at the recommendations of the Foreign Ministry and the Federal Agency for Tourism (Rosturizm).

"The sale of tour products on the Turkey track has been suspended due to the report issued by Rosturizm on November 24, 2015," Marina Makarkova, head of the public relations department at Coral Travel, said. "Yes, we have suspended sales," Anna Podgornaya, general director of the company Pegas Touristik, said. The press service for the company TUI Russia told Interfax that sales of Turkey as a seasonal destination were completed in October and early booking has not opened yet. The tour companies Biblio Globus and TEZ Tour have reported the suspension of the sale of tours to Turkey on their websites, saying this decision was made due to the statement by Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and the recommendation issued by Rosturizm.

Irina Tyurina, press officer for the Russian Union of Travel Industry, earlier told Interfax there may be up to 10,000 Russian tourists in Turkey now and tour operators had sold 4,000-5,000 tour packages for the period until the New Year holidays.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Tuesday the Foreign Ministry recommends that Russian citizens refrain from visiting Turkey for tourism purposes because the level of the terrorist threat in Turkey is not lower than in Egypt. Afterwards, Rosturizm recommended that tour operators suspend the sale of tours to Turkey, including through third countries.

http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/306670.html

Mustafa wrote:

Acheron wrote:You know, what I fail to understand is the reasoning behind Erdogan's assessment at the start of the Syrian mess which led to him practically destroying all relations with Syria, and starting to support Sunni islamist radicals and calling for the head of Assad? Prior to this whole Syrian mess, the diplomatic relations b/w Syria and Turkey were excellent , and were only getting better. What reason could there be to suddenly throw all this diplomatic investment into the rubbish heap and effectively become the enemy of Syria? As far as I know, no anti-Turkish coup happened in Syria and Assad wasn't attacking the torkomans (unlike Ukraines recent actions). Heck, if Turkey actually supported Assad from the very beginning, Assad would be practically eating out of Erdo's hands by now for saving him from KSA. The interesting thing is, Erdo managed to sell this massive schizophrenia in his foreign policy to most of the population of Turkey.

Its not that easy. Its complicated. At first we kept out of this until Assad fired rockets over our boarder.

Evrything now is ruined and i don´t know what can be done to make things better.

You're just a barefaced fucking liar. You had designs on a new Ottoman Empire. Now you're gonna get crushed.

Russian tour companies will probably make a killing for domestic flights.  And as well, there are other options for nice travel besides Turkey or Egypt.  Travel to south America like Cuba and Venezuela, those are real Russian partner countries.

sepheronx wrote:Russian tour companies will probably make a killing for domestic flights.  And as well, there are other options for nice travel besides Turkey or Egypt.  Travel to south America like Cuba and Venezuela, those are real Russian partner countries.

Noticed significant increase of Russian tourists here on mountain during summer, not like they lack snow in Russia, however during summer here on mountain there is quite alot of Russians.

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/webtv/reports/2015/11/25/Listen-Turkish-officer-issuing-warnings-to-Russian-warplane-.html



Turkey Releases Alleged Recording Of Warning To Russian Pilot