The Situation in the Ukraine. #22

Cowboy's daughter wrote:Checking in to see what's happening...missed you guys...haven't felt too bueno for about a week...ugh...

@auslander, glad to hear things a moving along fairly smoothly concerning the power situation.

JohninMK wrote:Not sure how power can get through from Ukraine given this on Interfax

Crimea on December 2 disconnected the system that transfers information from Crimea to control engineers of national energy company Ukrenergo, advisor to the Ukrainian Prime Minister and former head of Ukrenergo Kostiantyn Uschapovsky has told Interfax-Ukraine. "Unfortunately, now we don't have any unbiased information on the state of the power grid on the peninsula – Crimea yesterday disconnected the whole information system that transferred data to control engineers of Ukrenergo," he said.

Uschapovsky said that according to unofficial information, around 100 MW of electricity is transmitted from Russia to Crimea using the power bridge. "However, this is unofficial information, we don’t have reliable data," he said.

He said that it is not enough to build one power bridge to accept large electricity flow from Russia and distribute it in Crimea – expensive infrastructure projects on the peninsula are be realized.

This system has nothing to do with power supply to Krim, it simply gave 404 detailed information as to where Krim sent the power once in Krim.

The only local information I have is Mr. Aksyonov, the head of Krimu government, said late last night or early this morning that the power emergency declaration might end today. I think a bit more than 100 MW is coming through the first feed and it's already on line. No official confirmation of either thought, though.

Thanks, OP. It's been some rough days for the vast majority of the citizens of this berg and the peninsula.

14:30 today, electric off. Nothing on news today beyond 'we gave the people a little more electric yesterday so flats and house could be warmed'. Methinks this is going to last for a while.

Anti-Maidan site from Odessa
not in English


http://timer-odessa.net/news/sudi_po_delu_2_maya_napisali_zayavleniya_ob_otstavke_896.html

Ivan Katchanovski The Right Sector also forced the Appeals Court to suspend the decision of the district court granting bail. http://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2015/12/1/7090824/

auslander wrote:

JohninMK wrote:Not sure how power can get through from Ukraine given this on Interfax

Crimea on December 2 disconnected the system that transfers information from Crimea to control engineers of national energy company Ukrenergo, advisor to the Ukrainian Prime Minister and former head of Ukrenergo Kostiantyn Uschapovsky has told Interfax-Ukraine. "Unfortunately, now we don't have any unbiased information on the state of the power grid on the peninsula – Crimea yesterday disconnected the whole information system that transferred data to control engineers of Ukrenergo," he said.

Uschapovsky said that according to unofficial information, around 100 MW of electricity is transmitted from Russia to Crimea using the power bridge. "However, this is unofficial information, we don’t have reliable data," he said.

He said that it is not enough to build one power bridge to accept large electricity flow from Russia and distribute it in Crimea – expensive infrastructure projects on the peninsula are be realized.

This system has nothing to do with power supply to Krim, it simply gave 404 detailed information as to where Krim sent the power once in Krim.

The only local information I have is Mr. Aksyonov, the head of Krimu government, said late last night or early this morning that the power emergency declaration might end today. I think a bit more than 100 MW is coming through the first feed and it's already on line. No official confirmation of either thought, though.

Thanks, OP. It's been some rough days for the vast majority of the citizens of this berg and the peninsula.

I grew up without electricity the first 5 years of my life (coal oil lamps, fireplace, wood burning cookstove, an outhouse, non-electric ice box (put a block of ice in the top), and water from a well in the yard (with a hand pump).

Had electricity, but no running water from about 9 years old, until I was 14. We had a radio, that was it. I might have been 12 when we got a television.
No fans, no a/c. Heated with a wood-burning cookstove and a fireplace. had an outhouse.

My kids could survive, but most people today I think, would be clueless...as to how to survive

Cowboy's daughter wrote:

auslander wrote:

JohninMK wrote:Not sure how power can get through from Ukraine given this on Interfax

Crimea on December 2 disconnected the system that transfers information from Crimea to control engineers of national energy company Ukrenergo, advisor to the Ukrainian Prime Minister and former head of Ukrenergo Kostiantyn Uschapovsky has told Interfax-Ukraine. "Unfortunately, now we don't have any unbiased information on the state of the power grid on the peninsula – Crimea yesterday disconnected the whole information system that transferred data to control engineers of Ukrenergo," he said.

Uschapovsky said that according to unofficial information, around 100 MW of electricity is transmitted from Russia to Crimea using the power bridge. "However, this is unofficial information, we don’t have reliable data," he said.

He said that it is not enough to build one power bridge to accept large electricity flow from Russia and distribute it in Crimea – expensive infrastructure projects on the peninsula are be realized.

This system has nothing to do with power supply to Krim, it simply gave 404 detailed information as to where Krim sent the power once in Krim.

The only local information I have is Mr. Aksyonov, the head of Krimu government, said late last night or early this morning that the power emergency declaration might end today. I think a bit more than 100 MW is coming through the first feed and it's already on line. No official confirmation of either thought, though.

Thanks, OP. It's been some rough days for the vast majority of the citizens of this berg and the peninsula.

I grew up without electricity the first 5 years of my life (coal oil lamps, fireplace, wood burning cookstove, an outhouse, non-electric ice box (put a block of ice in the top), and water from a well in the yard (with a hand pump).

Had electricity, but no running water from about 9 years old,  until I was 14. We had a radio, that was it. I might have been 12 when we got a television.
No fans, no a/c. Heated with a wood-burning cookstove and a fireplace. had an outhouse.

My kids could survive, but most people today I think, would be clueless...as to how to survive

Lived like that basically myself till like 14-15 years old, thanks to the fact my home and properties were destroyed in war and we ended up displaced to Serbia. Except that we had electricity and fridge whole time, rest was basically the same. Heating water to bath, had "white and black" TV till i was like... 13-14, that was more not working than working And this was just like abit over decade ago

JohninMK wrote:Thoughtful article on the future of Antonov and the An-124. Usual anti Russia aspect but fairly minimal. Interesting comments as well. But almost no account taken of the dire economic state of Ukraine.

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/ukraines-antonov-will-westernize-this-huge-soviet-era-c-1746015355

Sure, put Western engines, western weather radar, glass cockpit, fly by wire, life support.... basically Antonov builds the shell after that. You can do that with everything you are pleased, this is not something new, same stuff is being rumoned and reported at least 10 times in last decade. They just like to repost stuff coz it suits them now.

A westernised Ukrainian Antonov translates in stealing workload from Airbus and Boeing's voters workers, seems legit.

Rare Bengal Tiger cub Dies in Crimea Due to Power Blackout

http://sputniknews.com/art_living/20151204/1031260931/crimea-zoo-tiger-cub-ukrainian-nationalist-blew-up-power-lines.html

This line makes you wonder WTF ?:

According to Russian Energy Minister Alexander Novak, Moscow could respond to the Crimean blackout by halting coal deliveries to Ukraine.

I mean seriously.

whir wrote:A westernised Ukrainian Antonov translates in stealing workload from Airbus and Boeing's voters workers, seems legit.

This.

Anybody who thinks Antonov will be allowed to compete with Airbus, the regions it operates/manufactures in and their voters, and the politicians tied into that is very credulous. Airbus has a long history of politics surrounding regional issues/lobbying.

The An-70 will not be tolerated as competition. The An-124 has perhaps a niche Airbus doesn't have a product in at present, but even that would take work away from its design team.

Under Europe, Antonov at the most will probably wither into a cheaply paid regional assembly plant, thrown scraps manufacturing sub-assemblies.
That's the harsh reality of it, unfortunately, which is a pity, as they've made some great planes, and the AN-70 should have had a bright future.

JohninMK wrote:

Kadmos45 wrote:Rare Bengal Tiger cub Dies in Crimea Due to Power Blackout

http://sputniknews.com/art_living/20151204/1031260931/crimea-zoo-tiger-cub-ukrainian-nationalist-blew-up-power-lines.html

This line makes you wonder WTF ?:

According to Russian Energy Minister Alexander Novak, Moscow could respond to the Crimean blackout by halting coal deliveries to Ukraine.

I mean seriously.

According to this Interfax report out of Kiev today and I have seen this comment before, Russia is not supplying coal. So who is correct?

Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatseniuk has instructed that profile ministries discuss the issue of redistributing the funds earlier accumulated by national energy company Ukrenergo to buy transformers to buy coal, a former member of Ukraine's National Commission for Energy, Housing and Utilities Services Regulation Andriy Herus wrote on his Facebook page.

"Yesterday the prime minister ordered that the possibility of redistributing the funds accumulated by Ukrenergo [over UAH 1 billion] to buy coal is discussed. TPPs [thermal power plants] have coal enough to work for 20-30 days, supplies from Russia and the ATO [Anti-Terrorist Operation] zone are fully halted," he said.

Acting Director General of Ukrenergo Vsevolod Kovalchuk confirmed this information.

From what i was aware coal supplies from Russia are halted.

Militarov wrote:

Cowboy's daughter wrote:

auslander wrote:

JohninMK wrote:Not sure how power can get through from Ukraine given this on Interfax

Crimea on December 2 disconnected the system that transfers information from Crimea to control engineers of national energy company Ukrenergo, advisor to the Ukrainian Prime Minister and former head of Ukrenergo Kostiantyn Uschapovsky has told Interfax-Ukraine. "Unfortunately, now we don't have any unbiased information on the state of the power grid on the peninsula – Crimea yesterday disconnected the whole information system that transferred data to control engineers of Ukrenergo," he said.

Uschapovsky said that according to unofficial information, around 100 MW of electricity is transmitted from Russia to Crimea using the power bridge. "However, this is unofficial information, we don’t have reliable data," he said.

He said that it is not enough to build one power bridge to accept large electricity flow from Russia and distribute it in Crimea – expensive infrastructure projects on the peninsula are be realized.

This system has nothing to do with power supply to Krim, it simply gave 404 detailed information as to where Krim sent the power once in Krim.

The only local information I have is Mr. Aksyonov, the head of Krimu government, said late last night or early this morning that the power emergency declaration might end today. I think a bit more than 100 MW is coming through the first feed and it's already on line. No official confirmation of either thought, though.

Thanks, OP. It's been some rough days for the vast majority of the citizens of this berg and the peninsula.

I grew up without electricity the first 5 years of my life (coal oil lamps, fireplace, wood burning cookstove, an outhouse, non-electric ice box (put a block of ice in the top), and water from a well in the yard (with a hand pump).

Had electricity, but no running water from about 9 years old,  until I was 14. We had a radio, that was it. I might have been 12 when we got a television.
No fans, no a/c. Heated with a wood-burning cookstove and a fireplace. had an outhouse.

My kids could survive, but most people today I think, would be clueless...as to how to survive

Lived like that basically myself till like 14-15 years old, thanks to the fact my home and properties were destroyed in war and we ended up displaced to Serbia. Except that we had electricity and fridge whole time, rest was basically the same. Heating water to bath, had "white and black" TV till i was like... 13-14, that was more not working than working And this was just like abit over decade ago

Wow. I can not imagine living through war.

1948 to 1960 for me. although I did live for about 15 years in the late 1980's-to 2000, heating with wood, and cooking on a wood-burning cookstove.
My daughter finally loaned me an elec. stove. gah. I cooked over a fire pit in the yard (we lived out in the country) until I found a wood-burning cookstove to buy. My ex husband had everything a person needed growing up, & was a city boy, but wanted to live "primitive" like his grandparents did when he was a kid. idiot.   & I was the bigger idiot. lol


I guarantee, politicians in Washington D.C. (Texas also) are clueless how ppl really live, or don't care...

One time I was driving around this little town going to garage sales, and saw a Mexican lady doing her washing on a wringer washer sitting in her yard. I felt such compassion for her, because I've done the same thing, except the washing machine I had wasn't a wringer washer.

Cowboy's daughter wrote:

Militarov wrote:

Cowboy's daughter wrote:

auslander wrote:

JohninMK wrote:Not sure how power can get through from Ukraine given this on Interfax

Crimea on December 2 disconnected the system that transfers information from Crimea to control engineers of national energy company Ukrenergo, advisor to the Ukrainian Prime Minister and former head of Ukrenergo Kostiantyn Uschapovsky has told Interfax-Ukraine. "Unfortunately, now we don't have any unbiased information on the state of the power grid on the peninsula – Crimea yesterday disconnected the whole information system that transferred data to control engineers of Ukrenergo," he said.

Uschapovsky said that according to unofficial information, around 100 MW of electricity is transmitted from Russia to Crimea using the power bridge. "However, this is unofficial information, we don’t have reliable data," he said.

He said that it is not enough to build one power bridge to accept large electricity flow from Russia and distribute it in Crimea – expensive infrastructure projects on the peninsula are be realized.

This system has nothing to do with power supply to Krim, it simply gave 404 detailed information as to where Krim sent the power once in Krim.

The only local information I have is Mr. Aksyonov, the head of Krimu government, said late last night or early this morning that the power emergency declaration might end today. I think a bit more than 100 MW is coming through the first feed and it's already on line. No official confirmation of either thought, though.

Thanks, OP. It's been some rough days for the vast majority of the citizens of this berg and the peninsula.

I grew up without electricity the first 5 years of my life (coal oil lamps, fireplace, wood burning cookstove, an outhouse, non-electric ice box (put a block of ice in the top), and water from a well in the yard (with a hand pump).

Had electricity, but no running water from about 9 years old,  until I was 14. We had a radio, that was it. I might have been 12 when we got a television.
No fans, no a/c. Heated with a wood-burning cookstove and a fireplace. had an outhouse.

My kids could survive, but most people today I think, would be clueless...as to how to survive

Lived like that basically myself till like 14-15 years old, thanks to the fact my home and properties were destroyed in war and we ended up displaced to Serbia. Except that we had electricity and fridge whole time, rest was basically the same. Heating water to bath, had "white and black" TV till i was like... 13-14, that was more not working than working And this was just like abit over decade ago

Wow. I can not imagine living through war.

1948 to 1960 for me. although I did live for about 15 years in the late 1980's-to 2000, heating with wood, and cooking on a wood-burning cookstove.
My daughter finally loaned me an elec. stove. gah. I cooked over a fire pit in the yard (we lived out in the country) until I found a wood-burning cookstove to buy. My ex husband had everything a person needed growing up, & was a city boy, but wanted to live "primitive" like his grandparents did when he was a kid. idiot.   & I was the bigger idiot. lol


I guarantee, politicians in Washington D.C. (Texas also) are clueless how ppl really live, or don't care...

One time I was driving around this little town going to garage sales, and saw a Mexican lady doing her washing on a wringer washer sitting in her yard. I felt such compassion for her, because I've done the same thing, except the washing machine I had wasn't a wringer washer.

Walked to school 5km since i was..well 6,5 till end of my elementary school (8 grades). Lived in isolated house in forest it was built in 1923. to be used by workers in nearby sawmill, around 1km of my way though forest with no real road but more like, trail, nearest neighbours were also like 1km away or so i guess. Lived from garden behind the house, had chickens and goat (yeah, goat), used water from water spring nearby. Plenty of wood around, electricity was available, had old TV, freezer but no real bathroom so dad built one.

Both clothes and dishes mom washed by hands, actually most of the people still wash their dishes like that here, dishwashers are not really affordable for common people and they are not very popular in general.

Actually i remember two wars, one 1991-1995. (when my family was forced to leave Bosnia) and second one in 1999. when NATO bombed Yugoslavia, first one not that well since i was very young, but still i remember enough, second one very clearly.

Militarov wrote:
Walked to school 5km since i was..well 6,5 till end of my elementary school (8 grades). Lived in isolated house in forest it was built in 1923. to be used by workers in nearby sawmill, around 1km of my way though forest with no real road but more like, trail, nearest neighbours were also like 1km away or so i guess. Lived from garden behind the house, had chickens and goat (yeah, goat), used water from water spring nearby. Plenty of wood around, electricity was available, had old TV, freezer but no real bathroom so dad built one.

Both clothes and dishes mom washed by hands, actually most of the people still wash their dishes like that here, dishwashers are not really affordable for common people and they are not very popular in general.

Actually i remember two wars, one 1991-1995. (when my family was forced to leave Bosnia) and second one in 1999. when NATO bombed Yugoslavia, first one not that well since i was very young, but still i remember enough, second one very clearly.

Wow. Militarov, thank you so much for sharing!
You and I grew up, and have lived very much alike, except for war.
Growing up we lived mostly 16 miles from town. When I started to school, age 6, rode a school bus to and from school. We had horses, milk cows, calves, once had a goat, 2 burros, chickens, 2 geese, 2 sheep, dog, cat...  My Mom always had a big garden, & canned food. At the house we lived at from age 9-14, water ran off of the roof by metal gutters into a tin cistern, and into a rock cistern, that's where we got our water, or hauled it from an earthen tank, or pond. in 55 gallon metal barrels. My Mom washed on a wringer washing machine, sitting on the porch.
I've also seen my Mom wash clothes by boiling them in an iron pot over a wood fire in the yard.
My parents could do everything. They butchered their own hogs, made homemade sausage..My Mother could butcher/cut up a deer for venison.
My Dad roped wild hogs from horseback, and hauled them home and fattened them out.

No chain saw, my brothers was cutting wood with an axe, & one of my older brothers was sneaking around smoking a cigarette at the outhouse, & accidentally burned it down lol He had to build a new one.
I had the happiest childhood, living in the country, riding my horse, swimming and fishing...

I've never owned a dishwasher in my life

There was no such thing as food stamps, or medical care or food banks when I was growing up. Nothing. You worked. You grew it, you canned it, you fished, you hunted, you killed it, you made it and if you didn't have money, you did without. My Mom sewed and made my Dad and brothers' shirts,  and any dresses I wore. I wore a lot of hand me downs, and very few clothes bought in a store.

Humanitarian crisis Spartak Donetsk no gas, water or electricity 95% of homes damaged by UA Shelling

Kadmos45 wrote:Rare Bengal Tiger cub Dies in Crimea Due to Power Blackout

http://sputniknews.com/art_living/20151204/1031260931/crimea-zoo-tiger-cub-ukrainian-nationalist-blew-up-power-lines.html

This line makes you wonder WTF ?:

According to Russian Energy Minister Alexander Novak, Moscow could respond to the Crimean blackout by halting coal deliveries to Ukraine.

I mean seriously.

Coal deliveries were halted from Novorossiya within two days of the destruction of the electric feed to Krim.

There is no excuse for the tiger cub dying from exposure. Heads will roll and a criminal investigation has already commenced.

Electric came on at 20:30 yesterday and as of 06:45 today is still on. Remains to be seen as to how long it will be on today. No information is being provided as to the increased hours of power.

higurashihougi wrote:

I don't know if the tiger may haunt Porkie in his dream...

Porkie incoming doom :

higurashihougi wrote:
Well. The tiger has to wait. Since there are thousands of dead souls who are registering for that.

Yeah, poor cub.

But i'm more concerned about this ambiguous statements from the Russian side.
So Donbass halted coal deliveries ( that's probably true ). But what about russian ones ?
I'm hoping this Alexander Novak guy was just plain wrong or mistranslated.

Recent piece about heating situation in Crimea:

http://novorossia.today/power-bridge-brings-warmth-to-crimean-households-ahead-of-schedule-crimean-pm/

Probably auslander could verify some statements made there.

Oh ye with little faith...

''Moscow to Sue Kiev if It Fails to Fulfill Debt Obligations Before Dec. 20''

http://sputniknews.com/business/20151205/1031296405/russia-ukraine-debt.html



''Russia says U.S. refused guarantees for Ukraine's liabilities''

http://news.yahoo.com/russia-says-u-officially-refused-guarantees-ukraines-liabilities-141126050--business.html

PapaDragon wrote:
Oh ye with little faith...

''Moscow to Sue Kiev if It Fails to Fulfill Debt Obligations Before Dec. 20''

http://sputniknews.com/business/20151205/1031296405/russia-ukraine-debt.html



''Russia says U.S. refused guarantees for Ukraine's liabilities''

http://news.yahoo.com/russia-says-u-officially-refused-guarantees-ukraines-liabilities-141126050--business.html

Putin plays them like an orchestra