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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

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    Cowboy's daughter
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Cowboy's daughter on Sat Jul 04, 2015 12:28 am

    Are y'all watching what's going on in Kiev? anywhere from "few hundred" to 4,000 right sector, etc, marching and burning tires.

    http://www.unian.net/politics/1096821-mitinguyuschie-zajgli-shinyi-vozle-stadiona-lobanovskogo-foto.html


    Avakov's Nazi battalions protest today in Kiev: "Our Kiev government is a Jewish-Putinist banditry."



    About 4,000 extremists marching in central Kiev demanding revocation of Minsk agreements

    http://tass.ru/en/world/805898


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Cyberspec on Sat Jul 04, 2015 3:53 am

    Monarchist wrote:
    Your frustrated reaction and words tells me I'm right.

    You're a victim of your own propaganda....stick to posting anti-Russian propaganda on the Novorusija forum

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  kvs on Sat Jul 04, 2015 4:03 am

    higurashihougi wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Monarchist wrote:“What would you be without a Tsar, O Russians?" - St. John of Kronstadt
    You do realise that the Tzar that you get off so hard on was just the biggest oligarch of it's time?

    And all this time I thought that you hated oligarchs... lol1  It turned out you are their biggest fan!

    Depends on Tsars. Monarchs like Pyotr the Great and Ekaterina II are good. Especially Pyotr, he is a supporter of industrialism and science. But others are just pieces of shit.

    Actually Tsarist regime began to degenerate when young nobles began to "study" in Western "liberal" countries. Rather than learning true value of liberalism, these "liberal" Russian learned all kinds of degeneration of Western society and became the loyal c*cksuckers of the Western oligarchs.

    And in 1914 Russia betrayed Germany, attacked East Prussia.

    Actually Peter the Great was over-rated. He re-introduced serfdom into Russia thereby setting it back by 200 years. He did
    other parts of his job OK. But then any competent Czar would have done the same.

    There was no betrayal in 1914. The alliance system baited every major European power and its allies against each other. Austro-Hungary
    decided to punish Serbia for the acts of some individuals. One could argue that Germany and its friends betrayed Russia. And this is
    clear from Germany sending Lenin to stage a revolution. Germany was de facto allied with the USA in this regard. For some reason
    Russia is always a painful issue to the west and its boundless imperial ambitions. This is an aspect that dates back to the crusade period.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  OminousSpudd on Sat Jul 04, 2015 4:11 am

    Wow leave the thread for a few days and it gets overrun by paranoid Putin haters... Suspect

    Some of the rhetoric you guys are spouting against Moscow's stance is stupidly narrow minded. I'll reiterate for the 10th time, either Russia plays the Global Chessboard and resoundingly wins the game for the next century, or Russia quagmires itself in a regional conflict that will be resolved when Ukraine and the Keiv junta collapses anyway. Honestly how narrow minded do you have to be to not see the outcome on a grander scale of either scenario.

    In saying this some of you are actually accusing Putin of being pro-West, so you really are pretty narrow minded.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  ExBeobachter1987 on Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:58 am

    OminousSpudd wrote:Wow leave the thread for a few days and it gets overrun by paranoid Putin haters... Suspect

    Some of the rhetoric you guys are spouting against Moscow's stance is stupidly narrow minded. I'll reiterate for the 10th time, either Russia plays the Global Chessboard and resoundingly wins the game for the next century, or Russia quagmires itself in a regional conflict that will be resolved when Ukraine and the Keiv junta collapses anyway. Honestly how narrow minded do you have to be to not see the outcome on a grander scale of either scenario.

    In saying this some of you are actually accusing Putin of being pro-West, so you really are pretty narrow minded.

    Well, Putin was definitely pro-West not that long ago and it is clear that the Kremlin is less eager to burn bridges with the USAE than the USAE with Russia.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  whir on Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:23 am

    opasnie wrote:Marinka. A successful counterattack militias. 18+ Exclusive

    Быль wrote:A child from Donetsk showed how hiding from shelling
    Oktyabrsky is in the Kuibyshev region of Donetsk. It is located near the airport, so constantly shelled the Ukrainian army. In June, the government began a program of resettlement of the DNI of the villagers to safer rayony.Malenky boy Sergei calls himself "a man" and already knows what to do when "babayka shoots shrapnel." It shows how the land lies and covers his head. Another resident of the village desperately asks, "What do we do, where do we go? More exhausted. Even where not only where only did not live. From there, flying projectiles - there Sands and Chkalov. We can not ".In Internet a video in which the residents of the village Oktyabrsky (for the past week, he repeatedly found himself under attack security officials) tell how experienced Ukrainian obstrely.Siloviki tightening the reinforcements to Lugansk republic. According to the militias Ukrainian technique has been seen in the area of ​​happiness and villages Lugansk. At the headquarters of the NPT believe that the National Guard under wants to gain a foothold on the outskirts of Luhansk. Meanwhile, the civilian population of the two republics do not know where to hide from attacks. During the day, the silence was broken regime security forces more than 30 times.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Flagship Victory on Sat Jul 04, 2015 1:07 pm

    these thugs have 0 life

    http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/members-of-ukrainian-volunteer-battalions-demand-resuming-fighting-in-donbas-at-rally-in-kyiv-392692.html

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  JohninMK on Sat Jul 04, 2015 1:16 pm

    ExBeobachter1987 wrote:
    OminousSpudd wrote:Wow leave the thread for a few days and it gets overrun by paranoid Putin haters... Suspect

    Some of the rhetoric you guys are spouting against Moscow's stance is stupidly narrow minded. I'll reiterate for the 10th time, either Russia plays the Global Chessboard and resoundingly wins the game for the next century, or Russia quagmires itself in a regional conflict that will be resolved when Ukraine and the Keiv junta collapses anyway. Honestly how narrow minded do you have to be to not see the outcome on a grander scale of either scenario.

    In saying this some of you are actually accusing Putin of being pro-West, so you really are pretty narrow minded.

    Well, Putin was definitely pro-West not that long ago and it is clear that the Kremlin is less eager to burn bridges with the USAE than the USAE with Russia.
    There is a school of thought that says that Russia was, and to a great extent still is, pro West for very good strategic reasons. The most important of which was/is to buy time to increase its defences, both military and economic which were both in a pretty bad way as well as gain allies around the world. It has succeeded brilliantly.

    The unfolding of the events in Ukraine has underlined that strategy. Never pushing things so far as to upset the West, forcing them to really react. Delaying events as far as possible in the expectation that the pressures in Ukraine, particularly financial (note that stunningly successful poison pill $3B loan) as well as military and political, will build to some kind of collapse and anarchy. Above all, playing the part of a reasonable non belligerent.

    As said, Ukraine, both sides of the ceasefire line, is the unfortunate fall guy in this particular world power play. Both sides are dancing to the tunes of their paymasters. To look at it purely on local grounds is missing that point. Russia seems to be determined to keep Ukraine (excluding Crimea) intact with a viable Russian oriented section in the East as a counterbalance to the west of the country. Almost everywhere else the US has acted, like Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, Syria etc has crumbled into mini states that are easier for them to control. The good old British 'divide and rule' with few Brits actually there. So far Ukraine has not gone that far.

    Kiev needs a fight in the east, to divert attention from the increasing problems and attract more Western money/support, much more than Russia. I suspect that in the event of the UA actually attacking east, sufficient munitions will be fired from indeterminate and deniable sources with the objective to stop them in their tracks and cause a mutiny.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Flagship Victory on Sat Jul 04, 2015 2:54 pm

    1 Maidan soldier KIA 2 Maidan soldiers WIA yesterday.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Erk on Sat Jul 04, 2015 3:06 pm

    [quote="JohninMK"]
    ExBeobachter1987 wrote:
    Kiev needs a fight in the east, to divert attention from the increasing problems and attract more Western money/support, much more than Russia. I suspect that in the event of the UA actually attacking east, sufficient munitions will be fired from indeterminate and deniable sources with the objective to stop them in their tracks and cause a mutiny.
    More like the government in Kiev only exists for war with Russia, it doesn't know how to run a country like a real government would.



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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Flagship Victory on Sat Jul 04, 2015 3:13 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Russia seems to be determined to keep Ukraine (excluding Crimea) intact with a viable Russian oriented section in the East as a counterbalance to the west of the country.

    I beg to differ. What happens if Maidan kills all eastern Ukrainians? Even if Maidan does not do that, the east has no representative in Kiev. Political purge in Ukraine is never seen before except perhaps in Nazi Germany. Not to mention the forced ukrainization in the east. If the east stays in Ukraine, American military bases will pop up there and there wouldn't be anything Russia can do about it. Such a strategy is not sound.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Neutrality on Sat Jul 04, 2015 7:46 pm

    So the OSCE just assessed the situation in Shirokino. Lenta's source is Interfax: http://lenta.ru/news/2015/07/04/osceshirokino/

    -Both civilians and NAF have abandonned the village.
    -80% of the town is destroyed according to Alexander Hug.
    -Observers are reporting a considerable amount of artillery pieces on the frontline. (But they don't report which side's artillery this is though. This tells me it's Ukrainian because we all know how quick the OSCE is to report anything bad the NAF does).

    Come on OSCE you fucking scumbags. Try to be honest for once and report who is trying to concentrate its artillery closer to the frontlines. That's the only fucking job you have there.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  auslander on Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:22 pm

    Neutrality wrote:So the OSCE just assessed the situation in Shirokino. Lenta's source is Interfax: http://lenta.ru/news/2015/07/04/osceshirokino/

    -Both civilians and NAF have abandonned the village.
    -80% of the town is destroyed according to Alexander Hug.
    -Observers are reporting a considerable amount of artillery pieces on the frontline. (But they don't report which side's artillery this is though. This tells me it's Ukrainian because we all know how quick the OSCE is to report anything bad the NAF does).

    Come on OSCE you fucking scumbags. Try to be honest for once and report who is trying to concentrate its artillery closer to the frontlines. That's the only fucking job you have there.

    It was our boys who removed the last of the civilians from the village, not the Ukrainians. OSCE did not report that.
    It was our boys who declared the village a neutral zone after negotiations including OSCE and the Ukrainians. OSCE did not report that.
    The Ukrainians have now moved in to the village in violation of the Minsk Agreement and the negotiations to declare the village a demilitarized zone. OSCE did not report that.
    It is common knowledge to even a deaf and blind man that the Ukrainians have not withdrawn their heavy artillery from anywhere in the lines from Mariupol to east of Lugansk. OSCE did not and does not report that.

    What exactly to you expect from them? They have an agenda and that agenda is patently obvious to a blind snail, let alone a biped who is cognizant of what is going on around it.

    Every day we lose civilian dead and wounded all along the line from Ukraine bombardments. OSCE does not report that.
    Every day we lose our soldiers to Ukraine bombardments along the line. OSCE does not report that.
    Every day cities, towns and villages in Novorossiya are bombarded by Ukrainian artillery including Giasint, Pion, Grad and Tuchka missiles. OSCE does not report that.

    The day will come when the leash is loosened and our boys will put paid to this farce of Minsk. You can rest assured that the moment our boys start to have success Mutti Merkel and the fop Golland will go running to Mockba again and scream for Minsk 3. One can only hope that VVP will tell them to go urinate up a braided line of hemp and invite that pair of oxygen thieves to have intimate relations with themselves.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  kvs on Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:22 pm

    Neutrality wrote:So the OSCE just assessed the situation in Shirokino. Lenta's source is Interfax: http://lenta.ru/news/2015/07/04/osceshirokino/

    -Both civilians and NAF have abandonned the village.
    -80% of the town is destroyed according to Alexander Hug.
    -Observers are reporting a considerable amount of artillery pieces on the frontline. (But they don't report which side's artillery this is though. This tells me it's Ukrainian because we all know how quick the OSCE is to report anything bad the NAF does).

    Come on OSCE you fucking scumbags. Try to be honest for once and report who is trying to concentrate its artillery closer to the frontlines. That's the only fucking job you have there.

    How do such reports even get accepted by the clients? The equipment must be attributed unless it
    is random destroyed scrap in the field. The OSCE is indeed a circus.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Flagship Victory on Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:34 pm

    auslander wrote:It was our boys who removed the last of the civilians from the village, not the Ukrainians. OSCE did not report that.
    It was our boys who declared the village a neutral zone after negotiations including OSCE and the Ukrainians. OSCE did not report that.
    The Ukrainians have now moved in to the village in violation of the Minsk Agreement and the negotiations to declare the village a demilitarized zone. OSCE did not report that.
    It is common knowledge to even a deaf and blind man that the Ukrainians have not withdrawn their heavy artillery from anywhere in the lines from Mariupol to east of Lugansk. OSCE did not and does not report that.

    What exactly to you expect from them? They have an agenda and that agenda is patently obvious to a blind snail, let alone a biped who is cognizant of what is going on around it.

    Every day we lose civilian dead and wounded all along the line from Ukraine bombardments. OSCE does not report that.
    Every day we lose our soldiers to Ukraine bombardments along the line. OSCE does not report that.
    Every day cities, towns and villages in Novorossiya are bombarded by Ukrainian artillery including Giasint, Pion, Grad and Tuchka missiles. OSCE does not report that.

    The day will come when the leash is loosened and our boys will put paid to this farce of Minsk. You can rest assured that the moment our boys start to have success Mutti Merkel and the fop Golland will go running to Mockba again and scream for Minsk 3. One can only hope that VVP will tell them to go urinate up a braided line of hemp and invite that pair of oxygen thieves to have intimate relations with themselves.

    You know what? If NAF really wanted to fight, then NAF never should have signed Minsk in the first place. Stop whining and do what is necessary. Why doesn't Russia complain when Maidan violates Minsk? It is clear Russia is on the side of Maidan. That's why all OSCE observers, may it Russian or Ukrainian or Swedish, only report violations of Minsk by NAF.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  whir on Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:44 pm

    Vox Populi Evo wrote:Look, whom you are killing! Viktoria Shilova to Ukrs | Eng Subs

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  JohninMK on Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:52 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Very interesting move by Rada, clearly full of financially literate persons.

    KYIV, July 3 /Ukrinform/. Ukrainian MPs on the second attempt passed in the first reading bill No 1558-1 on restructuring of liabilities on loans in foreign currency. The bill was supported by 229 MPs. The bill provides for all banks to be obliged within a month to restructure the obligations under the credit agreement at the official NBU rate on the date of the loan agreement at the written request of the citizens of Ukraine who had outstanding obligations under the loan agreements in foreign currency.

    The National Bank of Ukraine has already made the statement, insisting to reject the bill. "The adoption of bill No 1558-1 will destroy financial and banking system as it provides for obliging the banks to convert all consumer loans in foreign currency at the exchange rate at the time of signing the contract (approximately UAH 5.05 / USD 1). It will pose a threat both for stability of the banking system and the well-being of all citizens," the NBU statement reads.

    In turn, Finance Minister of Ukraine Natalie Jaresko posted on her Facebook that “the losses to the Ukrainian banking system from the bill No 1558-1 on restructuring of liabilities on loans in foreign currency will make up UAH 95 billion.”
    Well the Rada passed the law, who knows if Poro will sign it. Financial meltdown has moved a little closer.

    Late on Thursday, Ukraine's parliament passed a law which would oblige banks to exchange foreign currency consumer loans into hryvnias at a rate valid in the period when the loan agreements were signed. It means that the majority of the debts would be exchanged at a rate of 5.05 hryvnia to the dollar, while the current price of the U.S. currency stands at 21-22.

    "It is populism that has nothing to do with fairness. This step would create about 95 billion hryvnia ($4.5 billion) of potential losses for the banking system", Finance Minister Natalia Yaresko said on her Facebook page on Friday. "All citizens will pay the price for this in the form of a weakened banking system and fresh bank insolvencies," she said. The central bank estimates potential losses even higher, at 100 billion hryvnia if Ukraine's president signs the law and banks are forced to exchange $5.9 billion of loans at a rate of 5.05 to the dollar. "Adoption of the bill will have a devastating impact on the financial and banking system," the central bank said in a statement. "Such innovations will lead to mass bank insolvencies."

    Since the start of last year Ukraine has closed 51 banks that became insolvent due to an economic recession and huge deposit outflow caused by the weakening of the hryvnia. Ukraine's banking system posted losses of 25.2 billion hryvnia in January-May 2015 on top of 53 billion hryvnia losses in 2014.

    The central bank said the bill would conflict with the International Monetary Fund bailout program under which Ukraine expects to receive $17.5 billion of financial aid in 2015-2018. The broader IMF-led bailout could bring Ukraine about $40 billion in this period, but the country has to stabilize its banking system and strengthen government finances to qualify for the assistance. "This law does not help to achieve this," Yaresko said.

    Before the 2008-2009 crisis Ukrainian banks actively provided foreign currency lending to individuals offering borrowers more favourable rates. But when the hryvnia fell to 8 to the dollar from 5.05 and borrowers stopped repaying their debts, Kiev banned retail loans in foreign currency.


    http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/07/03/ukraine-crisis-banks-idUSL8N0ZJ18Q20150703

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:01 pm

    auslander wrote:
    The day will come when the leash is loosened and our boys will put paid to this farce of Minsk. You can rest assured that the moment our boys start to have success Mutti Merkel and the fop Golland will go running to Mockba again and scream for Minsk 3. One can only hope that VVP will tell them to go urinate up a braided line of hemp and invite that pair of oxygen thieves to have intimate relations with themselves.
    I hope you are right, but this world is not a just place. Justice will not always prevail. Sometimes the evil wins and the good loses.

    We have to prepare ourselves for a chance that the Kiev war criminals will never be punished and that they will win the whole war.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Neutrality on Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:41 pm

    In case hostilities break out again, the NAF command shouldn't walk away from a potential Minsk 3. They should agree to that only and only when Ukraine's potential for another offensive is completely annihiliated and I don't care how many Ukrainian soldiers will find their death in that case. No more propositions to a peaceful surrender. If there are going to be cauldrons again then they should be wiped out by artillery completely. Apparently some of the VSU was able to break out of Debalcevo. That shouldn't be allowed next time.


    Last edited by Neutrality on Sat Jul 04, 2015 9:42 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Ivan the Colorado on Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:07 pm

    Neutrality wrote:In case hostilities break out again, the NAF command shouldn't walk away from a potential Minsk 3. They should agree to that only and only when Ukraine's potential for another offensive is completely annihiliated and I don't care how many Ukrainian soldiers will find their death in that case. No more propositions to a peaceful surrender. If there are going to be cauldrons again then they should be wiped out by artillery completely. Apparently some of the VSU was able to break out of Debalcevo. That shouldn't be allowed next time.
    I don't think the Ukrops have the stomach for another offensive. They haven't made any real offensive for a year now. Anyway, I personally hope that it will be Mariupol that would be put in the next cauldron. Not only would we see the complete annihilation of the Azov Battalion, but it would accelerate the death of Ukraine. Besides losing a major city may just be the final straw for the
    people who are realizing that they have been deceived multiple times by the fascist Junta which they brought in on the promise of being transparent and bringing wealth.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  PapaDragon on Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:09 pm

    Karl Haushofer wrote:[....................................
    I hope you are right, but this world is not a just place. Justice will not always prevail. Sometimes the evil wins and the good loses.

    We have to prepare ourselves for a chance that the Kiev war criminals will never be punished and that they will win the whole war.

    They will never be punished but neither will they win a decent sized battle, let alone the war.

    What is important is to punish UAF troops, their families, supporters and subservient population of nazi-land.
    Porky and Co are just disposable tools for those who give orders here. Once they're gone others will jump in and continue their work.

    Ukraine has just entered second year of it's demise. We still have several years of tenderizing until scheduled, spontaneous, efficient and very cost effective decomposition.  Twisted Evil

    So buckle up little girl and grow a pair, war is not video-game, s**t will happen...

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  sepheronx on Sat Jul 04, 2015 10:19 pm

    A village was lost. As it sucks that the rebels decided to actually listen to the idiots at OSCE to give up the village to turn it into a demilitarized zone, and then it subsequently enough Pukrainians move in, it just proves to the NAF and Russians that they really should do what they deem is necessary.

    That said, if one looks at Syria, Rebels gain and lose territory, over the years, and then regain, then lose it again, etc. As well, the Rebels in Ukraine have huge local support of way over a million (try 3mil that remain and millions more outside) so they have far more support than even the rebels in Syria, and with indication that they want independence from Ukraine, will mean that this war will fight on much longer.

    They just need to tell Russia to screw off and they will fight for themselves. There will still be support from various Russian oligarches and private donations/crowed funding that will come in to help arm and feed the NAF.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Karl Haushofer on Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:07 pm

    sepheronx wrote:A village was lost.  As it sucks that the rebels decided to actually listen to the idiots at OSCE to give up the village to turn it into a demilitarized zone, and then it subsequently enough Pukrainians move in, it just proves to the NAF and Russians that they really should do what they deem is necessary.
    The main reason why I am so negative about the NAF winning this war is the influence that the West seems to have on Russia.

    I know Russians are not idiots. I know the Russians must realize that the OSCE is not an impartial party in this war. Yet the Russians (and the Novorossiyans) allow the presence of OSCE in this war and they even seem to listen to them and obey their orders. This is the most puzzling thing that I don't understand.

    It seems that Russia never fully escaped the Western influence that Russia was under during the 1990's. Russia has not reached the point where it can just screw the West, screw the OSCE and smash the Kiev junta. The West seems to be able prevent Russia from assisting the NAF enough to win this war. I don't know how the West does it (whether by threats or bribes or both), but they are clearly doing it.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Flagship Victory on Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:13 pm

    sepheronx wrote:A village was lost.  As it sucks that the rebels decided to actually listen to the idiots at OSCE to give up the village to turn it into a demilitarized zone, and then it subsequently enough Pukrainians move in, it just proves to the NAF and Russians that they really should do what they deem is necessary.

    That said, if one looks at Syria, Rebels gain and lose territory, over the years, and then regain, then lose it again, etc.  As well, the Rebels in Ukraine have huge local support of way over a million (try 3mil that remain and millions more outside) so they have far more support than even the rebels in Syria, and with indication that they want independence from Ukraine, will mean that this war will fight on much longer.

    They just need to tell Russia to screw off and they will fight for themselves.  There will still be support from various Russian oligarches and private donations/crowed funding that will come in to help arm and feed the NAF.

    Not true. Rebels in Syria have never regained any territory. If they lost a territory, they lost it forever. Case in point, Homs, Qusayr. ,

    This is also true in Ukraine. If either side loses a territory, it is never regained.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

    Post  Neutrality on Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:17 pm

    sepheronx wrote:A village was lost.  As it sucks that the rebels decided to actually listen to the idiots at OSCE to give up the village to turn it into a demilitarized zone, and then it subsequently enough Pukrainians move in, it just proves to the NAF and Russians that they really should do what they deem is necessary.

    That said, if one looks at Syria, Rebels gain and lose territory, over the years, and then regain, then lose it again, etc.  As well, the Rebels in Ukraine have huge local support of way over a million (try 3mil that remain and millions more outside) so they have far more support than even the rebels in Syria, and with indication that they want independence from Ukraine, will mean that this war will fight on much longer.

    They just need to tell Russia to screw off and they will fight for themselves.  There will still be support from various Russian oligarches and private donations/crowed funding that will come in to help arm and feed the NAF.

    Not going to work. Whatever they say or do, all their actions will be linked to Russia. Unless the Americans and Europeans notice that the Russians are pulling out assets and screwing back their political support through intelligence resources. Then they will notify the Ukrainian side and the VSU will go into offensive mode and start retaking every point and the dominos will fall one by one. The Kremlin will never allow that to happen.

    There's perhaps another story to Shirokino. Wasn't this village a constant gain-lose-gain-lose battle for both sides? Well maybe the NAF decided they had enough of bleeding their resources there, let the Ukrainians take the bait and let them move in and start returning the favor to them with artillery. There are no civilians there anyway and most of the village is destroyed already.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #16

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