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    AK-12 Rifle Discussion

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    KoTeMoRe
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    Re: AK-12 Rifle Discussion

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Sat May 28, 2016 12:00 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:1. Both Rifles were accepted. And the rifles were A545/AK12.

    do you know if VDV accepted A545 or AK12 ?

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    4. The AK74MR can't be seriously taken for granted as most of it has only one purpose, giving reserve troops a fighting chance IF SHTF. And as I said it already has a cost (dust covers are to be made new, front/guard are to be made new and spring loaded=more complex etc) and doesn't accurately solve the issues that are to be adressed. Ergos, consistency, impulse reduction etc etc etc. Basically, it doesn't make sense in the long run.


    Rosgvadrya - Russian Guard is supposed to have modernized AK-74M - probably just because of high probability of hitting fan (Ukopistan/Syria/NATO aggressive doggies in EE an dsoon election and billions of US on revolutions/elections)

    VDV as it is has no say over MO (Defense Ministry). VDV would have wanted a lot of things since 45 years ago that were shot down "mysteriously" by state trials. Among them the many alternatives to the AK system. But it's OK.
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    Re: AK-12 Rifle Discussion

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat May 28, 2016 7:53 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:1. Both Rifles were accepted. And the rifles were A545/AK12.

    do you know if VDV accepted A545 or AK12 ?

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    4. The AK74MR can't be seriously taken for granted as most of it has only one purpose, giving reserve troops a fighting chance IF SHTF. And as I said it already has a cost (dust covers are to be made new, front/guard are to be made new and spring loaded=more complex etc) and doesn't accurately solve the issues that are to be adressed. Ergos, consistency, impulse reduction etc etc etc. Basically, it doesn't make sense in the long run.


    Rosgvadrya - Russian Guard is supposed to have modernized AK-74M - probably just because of high probability of hitting fan (Ukopistan/Syria/NATO aggressive doggies in EE an dsoon election and billions of US on revolutions/elections)

    VDV as it is has no say over MO (Defense Ministry). VDV would have wanted a lot of things since 45 years ago that were shot down "mysteriously" by state trials. Among them the many alternatives to the AK system. But it's OK.

    Like some of the bullpup concepts? I'd like to hear more on this.
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    Re: AK-12 Rifle Discussion

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Sat May 28, 2016 7:58 pm

    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:1. Both Rifles were accepted. And the rifles were A545/AK12.

    do you know if VDV accepted A545 or AK12 ?

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    4. The AK74MR can't be seriously taken for granted as most of it has only one purpose, giving reserve troops a fighting chance IF SHTF. And as I said it already has a cost (dust covers are to be made new, front/guard are to be made new and spring loaded=more complex etc) and doesn't accurately solve the issues that are to be adressed. Ergos, consistency, impulse reduction etc etc etc. Basically, it doesn't make sense in the long run.


    Rosgvadrya - Russian Guard is supposed to have modernized AK-74M - probably just because of high probability of hitting fan (Ukopistan/Syria/NATO aggressive doggies in EE an dsoon election and billions of US on revolutions/elections)

    VDV as it is has no say over MO (Defense Ministry). VDV would have wanted a lot of things since 45 years ago that were shot down "mysteriously" by state trials. Among them the many alternatives to the AK system. But it's OK.

    Like some of the bullpup concepts? I'd like to hear more on this.

    Bullpups were actually a one man affair in the Soviet Union. After Korovin had its design rejected, Only Korobov kept them alive.
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    Re: AK-12 Rifle Discussion

    Post  Militarov on Sat May 28, 2016 7:59 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:1. Both Rifles were accepted. And the rifles were A545/AK12.

    do you know if VDV accepted A545 or AK12 ?

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    4. The AK74MR can't be seriously taken for granted as most of it has only one purpose, giving reserve troops a fighting chance IF SHTF. And as I said it already has a cost (dust covers are to be made new, front/guard are to be made new and spring loaded=more complex etc) and doesn't accurately solve the issues that are to be adressed. Ergos, consistency, impulse reduction etc etc etc. Basically, it doesn't make sense in the long run.


    Rosgvadrya - Russian Guard is supposed to have modernized AK-74M - probably just because of high probability of hitting fan (Ukopistan/Syria/NATO aggressive doggies in EE an dsoon election and billions of US on revolutions/elections)

    VDV as it is has no say over MO (Defense Ministry). VDV would have wanted a lot of things since 45 years ago that were shot down "mysteriously" by state trials. Among them the many alternatives to the AK system. But it's OK.

    Like some of the bullpup concepts? I'd like to hear more on this.

    Bullpups were actually a one man affair in the Soviet Union. After Korovin had its design rejected, Only Korobov kept them alive.

    ТКБ-022ПМ forever
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    Re: AK-12 Rifle Discussion

    Post  magnumcromagnon on Sat May 28, 2016 8:16 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    magnumcromagnon wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:1. Both Rifles were accepted. And the rifles were A545/AK12.

    do you know if VDV accepted A545 or AK12 ?

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    4. The AK74MR can't be seriously taken for granted as most of it has only one purpose, giving reserve troops a fighting chance IF SHTF. And as I said it already has a cost (dust covers are to be made new, front/guard are to be made new and spring loaded=more complex etc) and doesn't accurately solve the issues that are to be adressed. Ergos, consistency, impulse reduction etc etc etc. Basically, it doesn't make sense in the long run.


    Rosgvadrya - Russian Guard is supposed to have modernized AK-74M - probably just because of high probability of hitting fan (Ukopistan/Syria/NATO aggressive doggies in EE an dsoon election and billions of US on revolutions/elections)

    VDV as it is has no say over MO (Defense Ministry). VDV would have wanted a lot of things since 45 years ago that were shot down "mysteriously" by state trials. Among them the many alternatives to the AK system. But it's OK.

    Like some of the bullpup concepts? I'd like to hear more on this.

    Bullpups were actually a one man affair in the Soviet Union. After Korovin had its design rejected, Only Korobov kept them alive.

    What were the other concept rifles that were the victims of bureaucracy? Nikonov machine gun perhaps, but wasn't that a personal project by the late/great NIkonov?
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    Ak-12 rifle

    Post  Arctic_Fox on Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:14 am

    Can anyone confirm if it's true? :

    "Kalashnikov Concern Discontinues AK-12, Replaces It with… The New AK-12!"
    http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/09/06/breaking-kalashnikov-concern-discontinues-ak-12-replaces-new-ak-12/
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    Re: AK-12 Rifle Discussion

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:18 am

    Arctic_Fox wrote:Can anyone confirm if it's true? :

    "Kalashnikov Concern Discontinues AK-12, Replaces It with… The New AK-12!"
    http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/09/06/breaking-kalashnikov-concern-discontinues-ak-12-replaces-new-ak-12/

    Kalashnikov issued a official statement. It's true.

    Izhevsk CEO meeting prior that press release:



    Kovrov last friday:



    Yes you can tell is ZID, because they still think this is the rerun of the ABAKAN program.
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    Re: AK-12 Rifle Discussion

    Post  OminousSpudd on Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:29 am

    @ KoTeMoRe Is Tritro29 you, buddy? Fighting the good fight I see.
    Arctic_Fox wrote:Can anyone confirm if it's true? :

    "Kalashnikov Concern Discontinues AK-12, Replaces It with… The New AK-12!"
    http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/09/06/breaking-kalashnikov-concern-discontinues-ak-12-replaces-new-ak-12/

    Is this good or bad? Sorry I do not follow the program too well when it comes to the assault rifles.


    Last edited by OminousSpudd on Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:33 am; edited 2 times in total
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    Re: AK-12 Rifle Discussion

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:31 am

    OminousSpudd wrote:Is Tritro you, buddy? Fighting the good fight I see.

    Tritro29? He's Russian. But indeed I follow his posts.

    To my taste, it's good, serves as a final end to the BS that they started with the AK-12. But it is sad to see the AK system being left for dead.


    Last edited by KoTeMoRe on Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: AK-12 Rifle Discussion

    Post  OminousSpudd on Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:38 am

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    OminousSpudd wrote:Is Tritro you, buddy? Fighting the good fight I see.

    Tritro29? He's Russian. But indeed I follow his posts.
    Oh I see. He's made some good posts concerning the Yak 38.
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    Re: AK-12 Rifle Discussion

    Post  Gunfighter-AK on Mon Sep 12, 2016 1:37 am

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    OminousSpudd wrote:Is Tritro you, buddy? Fighting the good fight I see.

    Tritro29? He's Russian. But indeed I follow his posts.

    To my taste, it's good, serves as a final end to the BS that they started with the AK-12. But it is sad to see the AK system being left for dead.

    Can you explain the last statement there? I haven't seen any indication of different internals except for on the original AK-12 model, which they replaced with this "Modernized-Modernized-Modernized" AK-74M. Catch me up?

    Why would they go back to the old selector that "predates Christ" -- to quote a commenter on here -- and what looks like that AK-74M"MMM".
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    Re: AK-12 Rifle Discussion

    Post  Gunfighter-AK on Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:33 am

    Quick question here regarding the bottom tan AK in the photo. Who makes the rear back-up iron sight that is on that rifle? Any information on it?

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    Re: AK-12 Rifle Discussion

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:52 pm

    Gunfighter-AK wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    OminousSpudd wrote:Is Tritro you, buddy? Fighting the good fight I see.

    Tritro29? He's Russian. But indeed I follow his posts.

    To my taste, it's good, serves as a final end to the BS that they started with the AK-12. But it is sad to see the AK system being left for dead.

    Can you explain the last statement there? I haven't seen any indication of different internals except for on the original AK-12 model, which they replaced with this "Modernized-Modernized-Modernized" AK-74M. Catch me up?

    Why would they go back to the old selector that "predates Christ" -- to quote a commenter on here -- and what looks like that AK-74M"MMM".

    Which one? Let me be expansive here.

    Izhmash started the AK-12 adventure with a travesty of a "new" gun, then moved it back to a more logical layout so to bring a more ergonomic weapon an a different standard on the tolerances and fit and finish (3D printed hand guard, a lightened, "self scrubbing" gas piston, well thought rotating charging handle to allow side swap for an ambidextrous use).

    And all this brought a rather good rifle with all the interest one can have about the original AK system.

    However thet used all their clout and connections to delay, stall and outright cheat the deadlines and requisites of the Ratnik program in order to have time to develop a rifle that would fit. Now that they have hit the bottom of this, with their weapon being not reliable enough and more expensive than needed.

    Also the recent "modernized" AK-12 is the AK (AD) 400, which is a short stroke system with a lightened bolt and real latch pulled straight from the Dragunov. That's why many posters (and I) have started to call the rifle AD-400 for Avtomat Dragunov. Then Kalashnikov concern goes full dragunov and resurrects the MA in order to build full all length rifles out of it...
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    Re: AK-12 Rifle Discussion

    Post  Gunfighter-AK on Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:01 am

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Gunfighter-AK wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    OminousSpudd wrote:Is Tritro you, buddy? Fighting the good fight I see.

    Tritro29? He's Russian. But indeed I follow his posts.

    To my taste, it's good, serves as a final end to the BS that they started with the AK-12. But it is sad to see the AK system being left for dead.

    Can you explain the last statement there? I haven't seen any indication of different internals except for on the original AK-12 model, which they replaced with this "Modernized-Modernized-Modernized" AK-74M. Catch me up?

    Why would they go back to the old selector that "predates Christ" -- to quote a commenter on here -- and what looks like that AK-74M"MMM".

    Which one? Let me be expansive here.

    Izhmash started the AK-12 adventure with a travesty of a "new" gun, then moved it back to a more logical layout so to bring a more ergonomic weapon an a different standard on the tolerances and fit and finish (3D printed hand guard, a lightened, "self scrubbing" gas piston, well  thought rotating charging handle to allow side swap for an ambidextrous use).

    And all this brought a rather good rifle with all the interest one can have about the original AK system.

    However thet used all their clout and connections to delay, stall and outright cheat the deadlines and requisites of the Ratnik program in order to have time to develop a rifle that would fit. Now that they have hit the bottom of this, with their weapon being not reliable enough and more expensive than needed.

    Also the recent "modernized" AK-12 is the AK (AD) 400, which is a short stroke system with a lightened bolt and real latch pulled straight from the Dragunov. That's why many posters (and I) have started to call the rifle AD-400 for Avtomat Dragunov. Then Kalashnikov concern goes full dragunov and resurrects the MA in order to build full all length rifles out of it...

    Yeah, I was heavily interested in the "new" take on the AK-12 (Phase 1; new selector, ambi variant). I was surprised by the return to the current layout (Phase 2, Army Expo release) and extremely disappointed about the change. It was a return to the norm instead of a take-off into evolutionary innovation.

    So, do we have any pictures of the innards to show workings behind the AK-400 / Avtomat Dragunov?
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    Re: AK-12 Rifle Discussion

    Post  KoTeMoRe on Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:45 am

    Gunfighter-AK wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Gunfighter-AK wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    OminousSpudd wrote:Is Tritro you, buddy? Fighting the good fight I see.

    Tritro29? He's Russian. But indeed I follow his posts.

    To my taste, it's good, serves as a final end to the BS that they started with the AK-12. But it is sad to see the AK system being left for dead.

    Can you explain the last statement there? I haven't seen any indication of different internals except for on the original AK-12 model, which they replaced with this "Modernized-Modernized-Modernized" AK-74M. Catch me up?

    Why would they go back to the old selector that "predates Christ" -- to quote a commenter on here -- and what looks like that AK-74M"MMM".

    Which one? Let me be expansive here.

    Izhmash started the AK-12 adventure with a travesty of a "new" gun, then moved it back to a more logical layout so to bring a more ergonomic weapon an a different standard on the tolerances and fit and finish (3D printed hand guard, a lightened, "self scrubbing" gas piston, well  thought rotating charging handle to allow side swap for an ambidextrous use).

    And all this brought a rather good rifle with all the interest one can have about the original AK system.

    However thet used all their clout and connections to delay, stall and outright cheat the deadlines and requisites of the Ratnik program in order to have time to develop a rifle that would fit. Now that they have hit the bottom of this, with their weapon being not reliable enough and more expensive than needed.

    Also the recent "modernized" AK-12 is the AK (AD) 400, which is a short stroke system with a lightened bolt and real latch pulled straight from the Dragunov. That's why many posters (and I) have started to call the rifle AD-400 for Avtomat Dragunov. Then Kalashnikov concern goes full dragunov and resurrects the MA in order to build full all length rifles out of it...

    Yeah, I was heavily interested in the "new" take on the AK-12 (Phase 1; new selector, ambi variant). I was surprised by the return to the current layout (Phase 2, Army Expo release) and extremely disappointed about the change. It was a return to the norm instead of a take-off into evolutionary innovation.

    So, do we have any pictures of the innards to show workings behind the AK-400 / Avtomat Dragunov?

    So far ZERO, but:

    From the looks for it. You really have to think about a shrunk down Dragunov, albeit Larry Vickers that showed the rifle initially said that the only thing that had changed was the piston system that instead of being long stroke was a reverse short stroke. This isn't possible without a recalculation of  the expansion of gases as the short stroke can lead to de-synchronization of the feeding and ejecting. Added that the "dust cover" was really reminiscent of the Draginov Rifle (SVD) I don't think that it can be anything else than a smaller Dragunov. And frankly it's not a bad thing. The SVD is a tank tough system with a better recoil mitigation system from the get go.

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    Re: AK-12 Rifle Discussion

    Post  Gunfighter-AK on Tue Sep 13, 2016 5:58 pm

    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Gunfighter-AK wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    Gunfighter-AK wrote:
    KoTeMoRe wrote:
    OminousSpudd wrote:Is Tritro you, buddy? Fighting the good fight I see.

    Tritro29? He's Russian. But indeed I follow his posts.

    To my taste, it's good, serves as a final end to the BS that they started with the AK-12. But it is sad to see the AK system being left for dead.

    Can you explain the last statement there? I haven't seen any indication of different internals except for on the original AK-12 model, which they replaced with this "Modernized-Modernized-Modernized" AK-74M. Catch me up?

    Why would they go back to the old selector that "predates Christ" -- to quote a commenter on here -- and what looks like that AK-74M"MMM".

    Which one? Let me be expansive here.

    Izhmash started the AK-12 adventure with a travesty of a "new" gun, then moved it back to a more logical layout so to bring a more ergonomic weapon an a different standard on the tolerances and fit and finish (3D printed hand guard, a lightened, "self scrubbing" gas piston, well  thought rotating charging handle to allow side swap for an ambidextrous use).

    And all this brought a rather good rifle with all the interest one can have about the original AK system.

    However thet used all their clout and connections to delay, stall and outright cheat the deadlines and requisites of the Ratnik program in order to have time to develop a rifle that would fit. Now that they have hit the bottom of this, with their weapon being not reliable enough and more expensive than needed.

    Also the recent "modernized" AK-12 is the AK (AD) 400, which is a short stroke system with a lightened bolt and real latch pulled straight from the Dragunov. That's why many posters (and I) have started to call the rifle AD-400 for Avtomat Dragunov. Then Kalashnikov concern goes full dragunov and resurrects the MA in order to build full all length rifles out of it...

    Yeah, I was heavily interested in the "new" take on the AK-12 (Phase 1; new selector, ambi variant). I was surprised by the return to the current layout (Phase 2, Army Expo release) and extremely disappointed about the change. It was a return to the norm instead of a take-off into evolutionary innovation.

    So, do we have any pictures of the innards to show workings behind the AK-400 / Avtomat Dragunov?

    So far ZERO, but:

    From the looks for it. You really have to think about a shrunk down Dragunov, albeit Larry Vickers that showed the rifle initially said that the only thing that had changed was the piston system that instead of being long stroke was a reverse short stroke. This isn't possible without a recalculation of  the expansion of gases as the short stroke can lead to de-synchronization of the feeding and ejecting. Added that the "dust cover" was really reminiscent of the Draginov Rifle (SVD) I don't think that it can be anything else than a smaller Dragunov. And frankly it's not a bad thing. The SVD is a tank tough system with a better recoil mitigation system from the get go.


    Gotcha. So, when the MoD makes their decision, who do you think is going to win? The AD or the A545, or maybe a mix purchase?
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    Re: AK-12 Rifle Discussion

    Post  A1RMAN on Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:52 am

    Gunfighter-AK wrote:

    Gotcha. So, when the MoD makes their decision, who do you think is going to win? The AD or the A545, or maybe a mix purchase?

    AK-74M is gonna win Smile

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    Re: AK-12 Rifle Discussion

    Post  MonkeymodelBananaRepublic on Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:01 pm

    Any update?
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    Re: AK-12 Rifle Discussion

    Post  George1 on Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:19 am

    Kalashnikov's AK-12, AK-15 Field Tests To End In July


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    Re: AK-12 Rifle Discussion

    Post  George1 on Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:03 am

    MOSCOW, June 20. /TASS/. The newest AK-12 assault rifle produced by the Kalashnikov small arms manufacturer for the Ratnik ‘soldier of the future’ combat gear has passed all the stages of its operational evaluation in the troops, Kalashnikov press office told TASS on Tuesday.

    "It [the automatic rifle] has passed all the stages of its operational evaluation in troops," the press office said.

    Read also
    Russia’s ‘soldier of the future’ combat gear excels foreign rivals by armor protection

    The AK-12 is expected to become operational in the Russian Army as the basic long-barrel firearm.

    Kalashnikov Group Director for External Relations Sofiya Ivanova earlier told TASS that the operational evaluation of the AK-12 assault rifle for the Ratnik combat outfit will be completed in the Russian Army in the first half of this year.


    More:
    http://tass.com/defense/952393


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