The Situation in the Ukraine. #13

Cowboy's daughter wrote:What makes a vehicle a "Russian military branded vehicle"??

Green paint, St. George ribbon, Russian Army's star... I suppose.

Off topic of Ukraine

Chinese diplomat: Russia, China should protect WWII Victory heritage

http://tass.ru/en/russia/793119

My son-in-law's Grandfather went up the Burma Road (American Military), and down into China. He said to me that Japanese snipers was shooting at them.

kvs wrote:The Kiev regime starts actively to violate the ceasefire and targets civilians but it is Russia that has harsher sanctions applied to it.

Welcome to the western dystopia of lies.  

You would think that the so-called "pro-Russians" would be the excuse for NATO to start with the sanctions BS.   But
I don't see anywhere any indication that the rebels are instigating the breakdown of the ceasefire.  It is all Kiev's fault.

So these sanctions are part of NATO's war against Russia.   The other part is NATO's stooge regime in Kiev.  

NATO should be prepared to go all the way, i.e. nuclear Armaggedon.   Russia is not going to bend to some sanctions.

I was scared at first. I'll tell the truth. Now, I don't think there will be nuclear Armageddon out of this conflict. I don't know what's going to happen. Maybe it will just boil. Or if Kiev keeps shelling Eastern Ukraine, and Eastern Ukraine kicks Kiev's behind, I think NATO will back down.
I've never seen so many lies by US, UK, EU in my lifetime. It's a sad day, when imho, I see Eastern Ukraine fighting for freedom, and the US government is on the other side.

whir wrote:

Cowboy's daughter wrote:What makes a vehicle a "Russian military branded vehicle"??

Green paint, St. George ribbon, Russian Army's star... I suppose.

sigh....

Police reveal details how they arrested armed suspects in Kyiv

KYIV, May,5 /Ukrinform/. The main purpose of the operation to detain the suspects who allegedly committed armed robbery at a gas station on Monday morning in the Desnyansky district of Kyiv was to eliminate the possibility of more deaths.

Deputy Interior Minister Vasyl Paskal told reporters during a meeting at Ministry of Internal Affairs last Monday, the government web portal reported.

"Taking into account the early morning timing, we took the unprecedented security measures to protect the local residents. Our main goal was to prevent more fatalities during the operation. The fact that the suspects had possessed plenty of weapons we found out only after their arrest," said Paskal.

more at link

http://www.ukrinform.ua/eng/news/police_reveal_details_how_they_arrested_armed_suspects_in_kyiv_331109

Cowboy's daughter wrote:

kvs wrote:The Kiev regime starts actively to violate the ceasefire and targets civilians but it is Russia that has harsher sanctions applied to it.

Welcome to the western dystopia of lies.  

You would think that the so-called "pro-Russians" would be the excuse for NATO to start with the sanctions BS.   But
I don't see anywhere any indication that the rebels are instigating the breakdown of the ceasefire.  It is all Kiev's fault.

So these sanctions are part of NATO's war against Russia.   The other part is NATO's stooge regime in Kiev.  

NATO should be prepared to go all the way, i.e. nuclear Armaggedon.   Russia is not going to bend to some sanctions.

I was scared at first. I'll tell the truth. Now, I don't think there will be nuclear Armageddon out of this conflict. I don't know what's going to happen. Maybe it will just boil. Or if Kiev keeps shelling Eastern Ukraine, and Eastern Ukraine kicks Kiev's behind, I think NATO will back down.
I've never seen so many lies by US, UK, EU in my lifetime. It's a sad day, when imho, I see Eastern Ukraine fighting for freedom, and the US government is on the other side.

The Matrix is a scary place kid and you can never go back.

Cowboy's daughter wrote:
I was scared at first. I'll tell the truth. Now, I don't think there will be nuclear Armageddon out of this conflict. I don't know what's going to happen. Maybe it will just boil. Or if Kiev keeps shelling Eastern Ukraine, and Eastern Ukraine kicks Kiev's behind, I think NATO will back down.
I've never seen so many lies by US, UK, EU in my lifetime. It's a sad day, when imho, I see Eastern Ukraine fighting for freedom, and the US government is on the other side.

carefull, you dont want to be called an "putin understander" back home would you? .

but indeed, its not an conspiracy or crazytalk when people say that the U.S only wants to dictate what happens in the world. Democracy, Freedom, human rights and all are just bullshit. the U.S government does not care what happens in the country it wages war in or its people. ranging from the use of nuclear, biological and chemical weapons in places like Vietnam and Korea and Japan. to use of international forbidden warfare like Cluster Weapons, White phosphorous rounds, landmines or leaving massive amounts of radioactive ammunition left in Iraq's citys that the U.S uses.

an good movie about U.S double standards its been pursuing ever since the cold war is the movie Under Fire from 1983 telling about the people's revolt in Nicaragua against the U.S supported dictatorship.  and how it does not matter how many people die as long the U.S government maintains control, and how local people start to perceive the U.S as an enemy. it also is an good explanation as to why South America tends to dislike the U.S nowadays. this resentment worldwide does not come out of nowhere because "they are jealous on the U.S". its in most cases pretty understandable reasons to dislike the U.S.

the same effect and policy is now going on in Ukraine, but because of the internet things just cant be muffled away as easy as the U.S government would like. today's world is Multipolar, and the U.S seems to go down the way of the Roman Empire trying to maintain its full spectrum dominance it perceived it had after the fall of the soviet union. The U.S government sadly is wrecking a lot of country's and lives in the process of trying to maintain that control. but ultimately it will fail as it cant keep pressing against China and Russia and their expanding sphere's of influence worldwide. for example in my own country the Netherlands, at first most went with the anti-russia hype about how Russia shot it down. now,  more and more people feel that it was because of the U.S, NATO and Ukraine MH-17 got shot down. as neither the U.S or Ukraine supplied credible information and only Russia did produced hard facts trough radar-data they publicly published and could be verified. the U.S credibility is tainted and people start to look at Kiev and the U.S as the culprits.

these acts to keep control over media, information and to keep grasp on their influence is having the opposite effect for the U.S. their own actions work against them long term as they seem to have done ever since the cold war but it just grows it seems. South America, China, Russia, former soviet states like Belarus, Kazachstan and even Georgia nowadays that had an war with Russia look back at the U.S as the cause for world instability and an threat to peace.

it probably will not end in an nuclear war, but in this multipolar world we are experiencing now. the U.S.A will be an unwelcome partner for its history of instigating war, instability and hypocrisy.

there will be an day the U.S has no more friends left on earth if it keeps this policy up.

kvs wrote:

whir wrote:

Novaya Gazeta via Google Translate wrote:Это был «Бук-М1»
It was a "Buk-M1"

Expert evaluation of Russian military engineers: Malaysian "Boeing" over eastern Ukraine hit by missiles "land - air"
05.05.2015

In the editorial office of "Novaya Gazeta" was strictly confidential document entitled "The result of peer review of the investigation into the plane crash Boeing-777 (flight MN17) 17/07/2014, at the south-east of Ukraine."

To our knowledge, this work of Russian engineers MIC (including that of NGOs, which designs and manufactures missiles such as "Buck") should be directed to the Dutch experts leading the investigation monstrous tragedy.

Journalists are not experts on aviation and rocket ballistics, so we can not and do not consider themselves entitled to evaluate the study.

In view of the public importance, we felt it necessary to print the document without cuts and offer the expert community, both Russian and international, to examine the arguments, the facts and conclusions.

We also invited all interested parties to publish the pages of "Novaya Gazeta" the preliminary results of its investigations, because they believe: all things airliner crash should be made public. At least in order to stop the flow of speculation in this tragedy. Now clearly it can be argued that the innuendo former separatist leader Shooting Girkin of special "had sent a plane with the bodies," exploded over the Donbas and propaganda themes of the First Channel and "Komsomolskaya Pravda" about some "Ukrainian fighter", "secret witness "and" Spanish Manager "- is not nothing but a lie. Continue reading.

Novaya Gazeta is a 5th column rag and these "experts" are garbage.  

So it wasn't just some Buk, it was a Buk-M1.   Right, and Elvis is still alive.  



Note the line of equally spaced 30 mm punctures at the left end of the cockpit panel.   There is no FUCKING way this could
have been produced by Buk missile warhead rod shrapnel.  

I noticed this so called news site popped up and mentioned right after Ukraine events, and majority of the posters on there are Ukrainian with the few Russians who get all downvoted to heck when they say something sensible.

I say, call them out and ask them where their sources are from and how they determine by the picture. I could give the photos to my daughter and she could come up with something more comprehensible, and she is only 2. Notice how they call for others to use their sources, and call the rest lies. Gotta love it, no shred of evidence but "trust us in what we say".

kvs wrote:

whir wrote:

Novaya Gazeta via Google Translate wrote:Это был «Бук-М1»
It was a "Buk-M1"

Expert evaluation of Russian military engineers: Malaysian "Boeing" over eastern Ukraine hit by missiles "land - air"
05.05.2015

In the editorial office of "Novaya Gazeta" was strictly confidential document entitled "The result of peer review of the investigation into the plane crash Boeing-777 (flight MN17) 17/07/2014, at the south-east of Ukraine."

To our knowledge, this work of Russian engineers MIC (including that of NGOs, which designs and manufactures missiles such as "Buck") should be directed to the Dutch experts leading the investigation monstrous tragedy.

Journalists are not experts on aviation and rocket ballistics, so we can not and do not consider themselves entitled to evaluate the study.

In view of the public importance, we felt it necessary to print the document without cuts and offer the expert community, both Russian and international, to examine the arguments, the facts and conclusions.

We also invited all interested parties to publish the pages of "Novaya Gazeta" the preliminary results of its investigations, because they believe: all things airliner crash should be made public. At least in order to stop the flow of speculation in this tragedy. Now clearly it can be argued that the innuendo former separatist leader Shooting Girkin of special "had sent a plane with the bodies," exploded over the Donbas and propaganda themes of the First Channel and "Komsomolskaya Pravda" about some "Ukrainian fighter", "secret witness "and" Spanish Manager "- is not nothing but a lie. Continue reading.

Novaya Gazeta is a 5th column rag and these "experts" are garbage.  

So it wasn't just some Buk, it was a Buk-M1.   Right, and Elvis is still alive.  



Note the line of equally spaced 30 mm punctures at the left end of the cockpit panel.   There is no FUCKING way this could
have been produced by Buk missile warhead rod shrapnel.  

i could not find the refference, it was one of the first radar-transcripts of the Russian ATC about MH-17 being approached by an aircraft. then showing reduction in speed, loss of altitude and how MH-17 was trying to turn after that radar contact passed MH-17 from behind. the radar showed it made an seemingly controlled turn. it was not untill the radar contact approached MH-17 again from the left side it dissapeared from Radar.  

everyone honest and with some knowledge knows the cockpit got riddled with 30MM's. the first AA missile just took out the engine and damaged the wing slightly. that fighter killed the pilots pre-meditated and with an plan.





Aircraft got surgically assassinated by an jet fighter with an fighter aircraft gun.

Airbornewolf wrote:
Aircraft got surgically assassinated by an jet fighter with an fighter aircraft gun.

I doubt that, if it was a fighter jet it would have to be an air to air missile of some sort to catch up with MH17 being so high and traveling so fast, either that or it wasn't an Su-25.

Erk wrote:

Airbornewolf wrote:
Aircraft got surgically assassinated by an jet fighter with an fighter aircraft gun.

I doubt that, if it was a fighter jet it would have to be an air to air missile of some sort to catch up with MH17 being so high and traveling so fast, either that or it wasn't an Su-25.

Says who?

Su-25 can easily climb 10km altitude and to hit something unmaneuverable and as large as a passanger jet is easy for any pilot.

Airbornewolf wrote:

Cowboy's daughter wrote:
I was scared at first. I'll tell the truth. Now, I don't think there will be nuclear Armageddon out of this conflict. I don't know what's going to happen. Maybe it will just boil. Or if Kiev keeps shelling Eastern Ukraine, and Eastern Ukraine kicks Kiev's behind, I think NATO will back down.
I've never seen so many lies by US, UK, EU in my lifetime. It's a sad day, when imho, I see Eastern Ukraine fighting for freedom, and the US government is on the other side.

carefull, you dont want to be called an "putin understander" back home would you? .

but indeed, its not an conspiracy or crazytalk when people say that the U.S only wants to dictate what happens in the world. Democracy, Freedom, human rights and all are just bullshit. the U.S government does not care what happens in the country it wages war in or its people. ranging from the use of nuclear, biological and chemical weapons in places like Vietnam and Korea and Japan. to use of international forbidden warfare like Cluster Weapons, White phosphorous rounds, landmines or leaving massive amounts of radioactive ammunition left in Iraq's citys that the U.S uses.

an good movie about U.S double standards its been pursuing ever since the cold war is the movie Under Fire from 1983 telling about the people's revolt in Nicaragua against the U.S supported dictatorship.  and how it does not matter how many people die as long the U.S government maintains control, and how local people start to perceive the U.S as an enemy. it also is an good explanation as to why South America tends to dislike the U.S nowadays. this resentment worldwide does not come out of nowhere because "they are jealous on the U.S". its in most cases pretty understandable reasons to dislike the U.S.

the same effect and policy is now going on in Ukraine, but because of the internet things just cant be muffled away as easy as the U.S government would like. today's world is Multipolar, and the U.S seems to go down the way of the Roman Empire trying to maintain its full spectrum dominance it perceived it had after the fall of the soviet union. The U.S government sadly is wrecking a lot of country's and lives in the process of trying to maintain that control. but ultimately it will fail as it cant keep pressing against China and Russia and their expanding sphere's of influence worldwide. for example in my own country the Netherlands, at first most went with the anti-russia hype about how Russia shot it down. now,  more and more people feel that it was because of the U.S, NATO and Ukraine MH-17 got shot down. as neither the U.S or Ukraine supplied credible information and only Russia did produced hard facts trough radar-data they publicly published and could be verified. the U.S credibility is tainted and people start to look at Kiev and the U.S as the culprits.

these acts to keep control over media, information and to keep grasp on their influence is having the opposite effect for the U.S. their own actions work against them long term as they seem to have done ever since the cold war but it just grows it seems. South America, China, Russia, former soviet states like Belarus, Kazachstan and even Georgia nowadays that had an war with Russia look back at the U.S as the cause for world instability and an threat to peace.

it probably will not end in an nuclear war, but in this multipolar world we are experiencing now. the U.S.A will be an unwelcome partner for its history of instigating war, instability and hypocrisy.

there will be an day the U.S has no more friends left on earth if it keeps this policy up.

My family never did "fit in" where I grew up, until I was 14, & while I was growing up there. They were poor, and by the persons who ran the County, known to be mixed: "American Indian" & white. That's all that was known, and that was enough.
When I posted on American Indian forum, non-Indians called me names, but I was not "accepted" accepted by enrolled NDNs either. With some, it's one thing to be a "full-blood", and another thing to not be a fb. even among enrolled.
So, I'm sure it's even worse to be enrolled, but your own ppl not accept you because you're mixed. But that's how the world is.
I was fortunate growing up that my Dad was friends with persons of other ethnicities, even in 1950's, early 1960's Texas. Back then, some poor persons of different ethnicities were friends. At least there.
There will always be places I don't "fit in" because I don't believe all the bs. I may not know everything, may not know as much as others, but I know enough to know the U.S. government isn't loved by everyone, is hated by some because of what was done to them, and not trusted by others. People are people, and governments are governments. It's my opinion/belief, there is no 100% just government in this world, other than God's. The only one I know about by experience is the USA.
It has been my experience, growing up, that wealthy families ran Counties (Judge, Sheriff, banks, etc), & it was not "just". & on a County level, not just in years past, and I venture to say, not today either.
The funny thing is, whereas each American Indian Tribe/Nation sets up their own enrollment criteria, and it is by "degree of blood": 1/2, or 1/4, or 1/16, which goes back to when the U.S. Government "enrolled" NDNS on the Dawes allotment, so they could give them 160 acre "allotments", and take the rest of their land, my family has so little "degree of blood", it isn't enough to matter (except the Cherokee Nation, or if a person has ancestry to certain Tribes/Nations), and what my poor family thought was American Indian ancestry that gave us our hair color, skin color, etc, was in reality coming from other (then unknown) ethnicities.
sorry to be off topic...
Funny enough, I think there may be a lot of Americans who like President Putin more than they like President Obama.

Cowboy's daughter wrote:Funny enough, I think there may be a lot of Americans who like President Putin more than they like President Obama.

Perfectly normal. There are Vietnamese or Chinese people who like the US more than they like Russia, and vice versa.

The Great Debate
In the battle between Ukraine and Russian separatists, shady private armies take the field
By Josh Cohen
May 5, 2015

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2015/05/05/in-the-battle-between-ukraine-and-russian-separatists-shady-private-armies-take-the-field/

While the ceasefire agreement between the Ukrainian government and separatist rebels in the eastern part of the country seems largely to be holding, a recent showdown in Kiev between a Ukrainian oligarch and the government revealed one of the country’s ongoing challenges: private military battalions that do not always operate under the central government’s control. wrote:

RT’s Paula Slier leaves Ukraine following call for her arrest, death threats

http://rt.com/news/255753-rt-correspondent-death-threats/

RT correspondent Paula Slier, who covered the fire near the Chernobyl nuclear station, has left Ukraine after a local journalist urged security services to detain her. Some commentators were calling for the RT reporter’s death. The public call to arrest Slier was posted on Facebook by Denis Kazansky, a blogger and journalist for Ukrainsky Tizhden (Ukrainian Week) magazine. wrote:

Ukraine oligarch claims US extradition request is political interference

Dmytro Firtash boasts he brokered 2014 deal to make Petro Poroshenko president during Vienna court hearing that raises questions about US role in Kiev


http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/05/ukraine-oligarch-brokered-deal-petro-poroshenko-president-dmytro-firtash

The second major question raised by the Vienna trial is the level of US interference in Ukrainian politics. The US indictment against Firtash alleged that the oligarch paid bribes to Indian officials as part of a titanium deal. Analysts have noted that the charges are relatively minor given the importance of Firtash in Ukraine and the timing of the arrest, something which the judge also mentioned. The oligarch compared the history of Firtash’s arrest and extradition requests with dates of US assistant secretary of state Victoria Nuland’s travel in and out of Kiev, suggesting that the Americans used the threat as leverage to force Yanukovych to sign a European Union integration pact in autumn 2013. Yanukovych later changed his mind over signing the pact, which led to the Maidan revolution, following which Firtash was apprehended by Austrian police at US request. Firtash’s defence strategy was to suggest that the whole case against him was part of a US attempt to influence events in Ukraine. The US maintains there was no political motivation behind the extradition request and the overlap of dates with Nuland’s travel was just a coincidence. wrote:

Regarding MH-17, one of the theories I came across is that Kolomoisky was responsible for it, and the motive was to take down a plane supposedly carrying Putin.  Is it even possible that Kolomoisky had control or influence over Ukrainian air forces?

Cowboy's daughter wrote:RT’s Paula Slier leaves Ukraine following call for her arrest, death threats

http://rt.com/news/255753-rt-correspondent-death-threats/

Wow, so that is the "partly free" Ukraine, according to White House standards.

How nice.

Werewolf wrote:

Erk wrote:

Airbornewolf wrote:
Aircraft got surgically assassinated by an jet fighter with an fighter aircraft gun.

I doubt that, if it was a fighter jet it would have to be an air to air missile of some sort to catch up with MH17 being so high and traveling so fast, either that or it wasn't an Su-25.

Says who?

Su-25 can easily climb 10km altitude and to hit something unmaneuverable and as large as a passanger jet is easy for any pilot.

MH17 was flying at 975kmh think about that for a minute.

Forget Tanks. Russia’s Ruble Is Conquering Eastern Ukraine

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-05-04/forget-tanks-it-s-russia-s-ruble-that-s-conquering-east-ukraine

As a wobbly cease-fire keeps eastern Ukraine’s warring factions apart, Russia’s ruble is conquering new territory across the breakaway republics. wrote:

The ruble’s creeping advance shows how the troubled regions are slipping further from the government’s grasp, even as a peace accord brokered by Germany, France and Russia calls for the nation of more than 40 million to remain whole. Separatist officials haven’t yet made their currency plans clear. wrote:

The second I saw that section of cockpit skin I knew the aircraft was shot down by an SU. All the rest written about the incident is bovine scatology. I just don't argue about it.

Cahaba wrote:Regarding MH-17, one of the theories I came across is that Kolomoisky was responsible for it, and the motive was to take down a plane supposedly carrying Putin.  Is it even possible that Kolomoisky had control or influence over Ukrainian air forces?

Quite possible. His forces were among the largest and the most powerful. He could easily hold his own against the government forces of Kiev at the time (shame they didn't). A lot of Ukrainian military assets happened to "disappear" after February of last year.

Hehehehehe.... it is always good when idiots acting the goat get a good dressing down auslander... but they don't always take it well when they get their just deserts...

Don't be too hard on the American soldiers everyone... it is not too different from any other young man in a foreign country... except often it is groups of young men getting together that is the real cause of the problem and nothing to do with country of origin.

Odds are these guys could be the only members of their small town to leave their state and see the world... different customs and languages... culture clashes... will surprise and confuse them.

Some think they are taking on the world police role and are under appreciated by the countries they occupy... of course many are going to come across as pricks.... they have yet to learn their place in the world.

Regarding the airliner shoot down... the fact that the CIA has tapes and recordings and wont release them suggest they don't support the party line... the only Buk missiles operational in that region were government Ukrainian vehicles.

And BUK is not Russian for BUCK.. it means Beech tree...

Valentina Lisitsa the Ukrainian Pianist again..

Activism in Paris in support for the anti-Kiev activist.. and the people suffering.


Inconvenient Truths for the west of what is happening in Ukraine..
Valentina is like an atomic bomb of information and nothing what she says support
the freedom loving west and their "Russian Agression" .Wondering if Vice Media will interview her , 90 millions of followers she have should really make a difference in countering western
propaganda.






her twitter account is very popular.. she update
many news about whats happen in Ukraine..

https://twitter.com/vallisitsa

I agree with a lot of these recent posts regarding MH17. Another odd thing about it that I don't hear discussed very much is the absence of video and photos of a smoke column from the alleged BUK launch. I mean, is it not the case that the launch of even one those missiles is a pretty visually dramatic event that leaves a prominent residue lingering for up to 30 minutes or so afterward?

Today, video cameras are cheap and ubiquitous, and almost everyone carries a cell or smart phone capable of motion capture. And people take video of almost everything now. All sorts of insignificant events are recorded, and often uploaded to youtube or whatever.

So, how likely is it that after dead bodies rained down onto the fields, streets and through people's roofs, no one thought to point such devices at the giant finger of smoke pointed straight at the explosion in the sky that immediately preceded the macabre precipitation? I say not likely at all. You would of course expect there to be photos and video taken from multiple sources, all showing exactly the same thing from different angles and ranges.

please correct me if I'm misinformed, but I have yet to hear this adequately explained.