China build artificial islands in South China Sea

https://asiatimes.com/2020/07/australia-gives-us-partial-support-against-china/?mc_cid=8b250944ca&mc_eid=5455568640

"China has constructed 72 fighter jet hangars at its three airbases in the Spratlys - Fiery Cross, Mischief, and Subi Reefs - along with another 16 on Woody Island in the Paracels... China has, meanwhile, deployed YJ-12B and YJ-62 anti-ship cruise missiles to its outposts in the Spratlys and Paracels, backed by longer-range missile capabilities from the mainland. And it has invested heavily in radar and signals intelligence capabilities on all the islands, making it a safe bet that it sees just about anything moving on or above the South China Sea. A U.S. Navy vessel sailing in those waters would be well within the range of Chinese fire when hostilities broke out."
https://www.pravdareport.com/opinion/144788-war_with_china/

Some analysts have speculated the US could soon challenge China’s hold on the Scarborough Shoal, which Beijing has controlled since 2012 after a months-long standoff with the Philippines. The feature would be key for China to establish an Aerial Defense Identification Zone (ADIZ) in the sea.
https://asiatimes.com/2020/08/us-china-in-last-ditch-try-to-avoid-war-at-sea/?mc_cid=730743be1f&mc_eid=5455568640

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/07/china/south-china-sea-bases-military-intl-hnk/index.html

https://asiatimes.com/2020/12/how-india-could-tweak-china-in-the-south-china-sea/?mc_cid=535af42f04&mc_eid=5455568640

https://asiatimes.com/2020/12/us-china-in-another-near-miss-clash-in-south-china-sea/?mc_cid=535af42f04&mc_eid=5455568640

George1 wrote:Chinese artificial reef Yongshu (Fire Cross) in disputed territories in the South China Sea with a difference of 6 years. The first photograph of 2014, the second of 2020. Runways, hangars for aviation equipment, radar and satellite communications stations, underground ammunition storage facilities, barracks, etc. have been built on the reef. The area on which the work was carried out was 110 thousand square meters.



https://dambiev.livejournal.com/2242257.html

Makes u wonder if an aircraft carrier wouldnt be cheaper to build. Impressive though.

Those fake islands bring them EEZ to rule and fish as they want which is the main reason why they build them.

Aircraft carrier are for sure cheaper than this but they have no real value.

Too bad they didn't turned it into a wild island for giving nature a place where humans couldn't come.

To compete with this island someone would have to build at least 5 carriers. Plus ships with air defence and cruise missiles. Plus amphibious landing ships. And even then this group couldn´t compete with all the supplies stored on this island.

Most important is that subs can't sink it.

We talk a lot about how carriers are well protected but subs proved many times that carriers are just as easy targets as any other ship.

Makes u wonder if an aircraft carrier wouldnt be cheaper to build. Impressive though.

Unless it is a classic aircraft carrier, its value depreciates over time while land prices only go up.

A good investment for the future.

Island building technology might become rather useful with climate change and sea levels rising too...

There are lots of places around the world where this might be a good idea for the super rich to start building their own islands in international waters.... they could create their own countries etc... I am surprised no Bond villain has thought of that yet.

Super rich guy builds island but global warming floods it in 3m of sea water... in revenge he develops technology to reduce temperature on earth and we start heading for a big freeze.... the water levels drop 30m and his island becomes a whole country...

Hole wrote:To compete with this island someone would have to build at least 5 carriers. Plus ships with air defence and cruise missiles. Plus amphibious landing ships. And even then this group couldn´t compete with all the supplies stored on this island.

Too bad the USN has 9 of them then .

There is more then one island in the South China Sea.

lyle6 wrote:

Hole wrote:To compete with this island someone would have to build at least 5 carriers. Plus ships with air defence and cruise missiles. Plus amphibious landing ships. And even then this group couldn´t compete with all the supplies stored on this island.

Too bad the USN has 9 of them then .

Which are spread out all over the world's oceans. They simply can't afford to keep all their CVN's in one portion of the world only.

walle83 wrote:

George1 wrote:Chinese artificial reef Yongshu (Fire

[url=https://servimg.com/view/17136145/2064][img]https://i.servimg.com/u/f95/17/13/61/45/43472810/url]

https://dambiev.livejournal.com/2242257.html

Makes u wonder if an aircraft carrier wouldnt be cheaper to build. Impressive though.

It's too different to even compare. Even if the costs were nominally similar. This air field is an asset in a way that an aircraft carrier isnt. Aircraft carriers wear out and get scrapped. This air field will be there for lifetimes.

Plus this kind of construction is China's strength. It's easy to understand why the Americans are so jealous and butthurt about these islands

magnumcromagnon wrote:

lyle6 wrote:

Hole wrote:To compete with this island someone would have to build at least 5 carriers. Plus ships with air defence and cruise missiles. Plus amphibious landing ships. And even then this group couldn´t compete with all the supplies stored on this island.

Too bad the USN has 9 of them then .

Which are spread out all over the world's oceans. They simply can't afford to keep all their CVN's in one portion of the world only.

If the shit hit the fan im sure they would send everything they had. No point having a carrier in the mediterranean if world war 3 is about to start in the pacific.

US have similar islands in the pacific.

Island fighting in the Pacific has changed somewhat however with China having long range ballistic anti ship missiles... how many ships would the US need to lose before they realised holding those islands is not really worth it considering China actually owns them... therefore a nuclear attack on one of their own islands could constituted weapons testing... they could schedule it just as American forces take possession perhaps?

Those islands could be booby trapped up the wazoo... and of course if Chinese built islands don't constitute real islands and therefore don't have legitimate water boundaries then captured fake islands don't either so any country could therefore legally sail right up to them too... right?

US have similar islands in the pacific.

They do but they generally took them by force and removed the former inhabitants... so kidnap, murder, and theft...

Makes what the Chinese did look squeaky clean to be honest.

But the kidnapper, murderer, thief says they are the bad guys breaking the rules.... hahahaha.

magnumcromagnon wrote:

lyle6 wrote:

Hole wrote:To compete with this island someone would have to build at least 5 carriers. Plus ships with air defence and cruise missiles. Plus amphibious landing ships. And even then this group couldn´t compete with all the supplies stored on this island.

Too bad the USN has 9 of them then .

Which are spread out all over the world's oceans. They simply can't afford to keep all their CVN's in one portion of the world only.

Japan and Philippines are a thing

PapaDragon wrote:

magnumcromagnon wrote:

lyle6 wrote:

Hole wrote:To compete with this island someone would have to build at least 5 carriers. Plus ships with air defence and cruise missiles. Plus amphibious landing ships. And even then this group couldn´t compete with all the supplies stored on this island.

Too bad the USN has 9 of them then .

Which are spread out all over the world's oceans. They simply can't afford to keep all their CVN's in one portion of the world only.

Japan and Philippines are a thing

His post was related to the CVN's, not naval bases. That's why he mentioned the #9, as in 9 CVN fleets.

magnumcromagnon wrote:US to build anti-China missile network along first island chain

By the time China will take all of them.

They better bet on the 3rd or 4th asland chain if it exists.

GarryB wrote:Island fighting in the Pacific has changed somewhat however with China having long range ballistic anti ship missiles... how many ships would the US need to lose before they realised holding those islands is not really worth it considering China actually owns them... therefore a nuclear attack on one of their own islands could constituted weapons testing... they could schedule it just as American forces take possession perhaps?

Those islands could be booby trapped up the wazoo... and of course if Chinese built islands don't constitute real islands and therefore don't have legitimate water boundaries then captured fake islands don't either so any country could therefore legally sail right up to them too... right?

US have similar islands in the pacific.

They do but they generally took them by force and removed the former inhabitants... so kidnap, murder, and theft...

Makes what the Chinese did look squeaky clean to be honest.

But the kidnapper, murderer, thief says they are the bad guys breaking the rules.... hahahaha.

How would the Chinese defend themselves against anti runway bombs designed to render the  runways useless?

Might seem a silly question but I have no military background. The issue came up on another forum, much more pro US, that I frequent

@PapaDragon I believe the US shut down its Subic Bay naval base decades ago. Right now Duterte is sucking it up big time to the Chinese, not even Covid19 or the continued South China Sea standoff fallout made a dent. He uses his Chinese avances to get more from the US, and probably vice versa

I expect he Philippines to be fully in china's fold before the end of the decade. They've signed the RCEP trade agreement and are getting massive amounts of Chinese investment right now

Duterte might play the two sides a bit longer against each other but in the end it will be Chinese that dominate the Philippines. Mainland Chinese have already become somewhat of a protected class here

How would the Chinese defend themselves against anti runway bombs designed to render the runways useless?

the same way any land based airfield does... send out trucks and repair the damage... and in the mean time use helicopters and short take off fighters.

Might seem a silly question but I have no military background. The issue came up on another forum, much more pro US, that I frequent

To deliver runway cratering munitions you need a platform... now that might be a cruise missile like the Tomahawk or Kh-555 programmed to fly down the runway low and fast ejecting cratering submunitions as it flys, or bombs or other missile types... but most of those sorts of weapons should be easily detected at range and shot down before they reach the runway to do the damage.

If they make it then they can blow deep holes in the runway.... but a grader and fill the holes in fairly quickly and quick drying cement can allow fighters to take off fairly soon after being repaired... it is very rare for any attack to completely take out every square metre of the runway and if it is a 3km strip any 250m stretch would allow MiG-29 or Su-27 like aircraft get airborne and continue operations to protect the airstrip and surrounds.

Duterte might play the two sides a bit longer against each other but in the end it will be Chinese that dominate the Philippines. Mainland Chinese have already become somewhat of a protected class here

The Americans warn of the danger of China and its oppression and evil... but offer no proof they are any worse than America has been. China seems to spend money on development and progress in the places they spend money which is rather better than any european imperial power ever did in most places they occupied.

A runway can be repaired in matters of 1 or 2 day. Or the anti runway missile can be destroyed before it attacks the runway.

The aircraft carrier however can't repair itself at sea and would need to go back at the shipyard if it is not sink.