The Situation in the Ukraine. #11

sepheronx wrote:So with the US sending 500 - 800 airborne units to "train" PUke troops, what do you think will happen next?

The US is breaking the ceasefire agreement and ambassader to NATO from Russia did warn that they would go deal with Ukraine if there is threat from NATO, does this mean Russia will actually do something useful or eat their own words?

sepheronx wrote:
I hope they do something, cause this would mean that whatever Russia says, wont be backed up and they will be pushed around even more, or worst, invaded because they (nato) will call their bluff

This can be real dangerous for Russia and Putin. If he sits idly by, eventually the nationalists and patriots may see him as weak. Which is somewhat the case. In my mind, Russia should provide openly equipment to Novorussians and training as well to combat the western forces.

So how come in 2008, they invade and destroy Georgia but now not doing a thing in Ukraine? Sad really.

hopefully they have other plans, cause anyone could see this a mile away. So hopefully they will now seek Novorussias independence from Ukraine, and build them up.

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:

sepheronx wrote:So with the US sending 500 - 800 airborne units to "train" PUke troops, what do you think will happen next?

The US is breaking the ceasefire agreement and ambassader to NATO from Russia did warn that they would go deal with Ukraine if there is threat from NATO, does this mean Russia will actually do something useful or eat their own words?

Do you remember when the last time, about a year ago, "US" sent ~300 military personal to Ukraine what happened?

The National Commission for State Energy and Public Utilities Regulation has decided to raise from April 1 the gas price limits for the population by 3.3 times

sepheronx wrote:My last post was semi hysterical. 500 - 800 troops (1 batallion) isnt a lot to make a choice.

Anyway, can anyone tell me the size of the population of the novorussian territory in its current form?

sepheronx wrote:

Morpheus Eberhardt wrote:

sepheronx wrote:So with the US sending 500 - 800 airborne units to "train" PUke troops, what do you think will happen next?

The US is breaking the ceasefire agreement and ambassader to NATO from Russia did warn that they would go deal with Ukraine if there is threat from NATO, does this mean Russia will actually do something useful or eat their own words?

Do you remember when the last time, about a year ago, "US" sent ~300 military personal to Ukraine what happened?

This is 1 batallion (500-800) soldiers, and they are planning to stay till summer.

Kimppis wrote:Ukraine ‘modernization agency’ to seek revival of war-torn economy

http://rt.com/news/237453-ukraine-economy-forum-vienna/

What do you guys think?

They are planning to get 300 billion... somehow. What are the prospects of (anti-Russian) Ukraine anyway? They are not going to become a member of EU anytime soon (or, more likely, never) and their economy has been totally dependent on Russia. They were like the poorest country in Europe to begin with and now the economy has totally collapsed. What a horrible mess. Atleast things can't get much worse... or can they?

cracker wrote:"12 000 russian army troops in support of separatists" - white house.




so the US finally went full mental retards... no shame anymore. Well... anything will be tried now anyway, there are no limits anymore.

This kind of dog crap usually came from Ukr "authorities", left untouched by "serious" US / EU representatives... Only balts and PL reported these kind of jokes... now, USA too.

gregoire wrote:

Kimppis wrote:Ukraine ‘modernization agency’ to seek revival of war-torn economy

http://rt.com/news/237453-ukraine-economy-forum-vienna/

What do you guys think?

They are planning to get 300 billion... somehow. What are the prospects of (anti-Russian) Ukraine anyway? They are not going to become a member of EU anytime soon (or, more likely, never) and their economy has been totally dependent on Russia. They were like the poorest country in Europe to begin with and now the economy has totally collapsed. What a horrible mess. Atleast things can't get much worse... or can they?

Ukraine is doomed. It will be worse than before. If the oligarch didn't already own everything, they'll own everything including man, woman and child. As I see it, without russia's help it will become a black hole of misery. Thing is, russia probably will help but not for "free". I bet they'll ask for reassurance of the EU to stay away from any such adventures in the future and neutralize their masters (the US) influence in foreign policy. That's how I think things should play out for ukraine (or The ukraine?) to have a shot at normalcy. In my not so expert opinion I think the ukraine should be broken up, de-loused (all nazis dead) and reprogrammed...which means piles and piles of more dead people, which I don't like to see either. This whole civil war was harrowing to say the least and I can't wait for it to stop. (and I'm not even a slav...or a rus) In short, the ukraine is the ball in the play between world powers and will be for a very long time, sadly, because russia won't loose and the west won't stop.

Kimppis wrote:Ukraine ‘modernization agency’ to seek revival of war-torn economy

http://rt.com/news/237453-ukraine-economy-forum-vienna/

What do you guys think?

They are planning to get 300 billion... somehow. What are the prospects of (anti-Russian) Ukraine anyway? They are not going to become a member of EU anytime soon (or, more likely, never) and their economy has been totally dependent on Russia. They were like the poorest country in Europe to begin with and now the economy has totally collapsed. What a horrible mess. Atleast things can't get much worse... or can they?

sepheronx wrote:

gregoire wrote:

Kimppis wrote:Ukraine ‘modernization agency’ to seek revival of war-torn economy

http://rt.com/news/237453-ukraine-economy-forum-vienna/

What do you guys think?

They are planning to get 300 billion... somehow. What are the prospects of (anti-Russian) Ukraine anyway? They are not going to become a member of EU anytime soon (or, more likely, never) and their economy has been totally dependent on Russia. They were like the poorest country in Europe to begin with and now the economy has totally collapsed. What a horrible mess. Atleast things can't get much worse... or can they?

Ukraine is doomed. It will be worse than before. If the oligarch didn't already own everything, they'll own everything including man, woman and child. As I see it, without russia's help it will become a black hole of misery. Thing is, russia probably will help but not for "free". I bet they'll ask for reassurance of the EU to stay away from any such adventures in the future and neutralize their masters (the US) influence in foreign policy. That's how I think things should play out for ukraine (or The ukraine?) to have a shot at normalcy. In my not so expert opinion I think the ukraine should be broken up, de-loused (all nazis dead) and reprogrammed...which means piles and piles of more dead people, which I don't like to see either. This whole civil war was harrowing to say the least and I can't wait for it to stop. (and I'm not even a slav...or a rus) In short, the ukraine is the ball in the play between world powers and will be for a very long time, sadly, because russia won't loose and the west won't stop.

Ukraine wont be able to pull it off simply due to lack of skilled workers, and lack of a proper judical system, and heavy corruption. Look at Poroshenko's promise to end his business when he was to become president, yet he still owns it.

There has been many promises and as much as I believe there will be some gains, nothing that substantial will happen. Especially when majority of industries and resources that can pull this off are found in Eastern Ukraine, and how Eastern Ukrainians are now wanting to separate, it isnt looking good for them.

cracker wrote:"12 000 russian army troops in support of separatists" - white house.




so the US finally went full mental retards... no shame anymore. Well... anything will be tried now anyway, there are no limits anymore.

This kind of dog crap usually came from Ukr "authorities", left untouched by "serious" US / EU representatives... Only balts and PL reported these kind of jokes... now, USA too.

sepheronx wrote:Abhkazia is apparently doing well. South ossetia is different case. The thing is, it may have been the ambassader to NATO who made the comment about dealing against NATO, but if they want to be taken seriously, put up or shut up. I suppose Russia will up the supplies of goods to Novorussia when US troops arrive for training. More weapons and possibly training of their own. Ukraine is economically destroyed so regardless, it is a lose lose situation.

I dont believe in leaving these people out to dry. Russia could have solved this issue long ago by bombing the PUkes, and end up in same position economically and pollitically now as before, but with a proper ceasefire. So this pisses me off and the ones responsible for saying they would protect the eastern Ukrainians should be let go, even Putin.

That said, my question still stands: what is the total population of novorussia in its current form?

Edit: if Russia wants decent allies capable of protecting themselves mixed with reducing discontent internally, they need to build them up. Provide Russian industry so people work, and continue to buy their products.

d_taddei2 wrote:well it even looks like Janes Defence are giving some praise to Russia. Russian seem to be doing a good job (and they are) in Ukraine


http://www.janes.com/article/49469/update-russia-s-hybrid-war-in-ukraine-is-working?utm_campaign=%5bPMP%5d_PC5308_J360%204.3.15_KV_Deployment&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Eloqua&elqaid=11848&elqat=1&elqTrackId=4493fdb8d087439c84f080b445bc9df1

kvs wrote:

cracker wrote:"12 000 russian army troops in support of separatists" - white house.




so the US finally went full mental retards... no shame anymore. Well... anything will be tried now anyway, there are no limits anymore.

This kind of dog crap usually came from Ukr "authorities", left untouched by "serious" US / EU representatives... Only balts and PL reported these kind of jokes... now, USA too.

This is US 1984 style newspeak for 12,000 volunteers.   I can see there being this many since there were 5,000 last summer.

I don't see the US and NATO bitching about volunteers fighting in Syria or previously in Libya.

Also, I don't recall NATO bitching at the KLA (or UCK) in Kosovo for having thousands of volunteers from Albania.

magnumcromagnon wrote:

d_taddei2 wrote:well it even looks like Janes Defence are giving some praise to Russia. Russian seem to be doing a good job (and they are) in Ukraine


http://www.janes.com/article/49469/update-russia-s-hybrid-war-in-ukraine-is-working?utm_campaign=%5bPMP%5d_PC5308_J360%204.3.15_KV_Deployment&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Eloqua&elqaid=11848&elqat=1&elqTrackId=4493fdb8d087439c84f080b445bc9df1

Janes is growing more disappointing by the minute. Instead of just focusing on military technology, do they really need get involved in to politics?

Zivo wrote:"Russian EW, communications and other units central to their military operations are typically placed adjacent to kindergartens, hospitals or apartment buildings so that Ukrainian units are unable to launch any strikes against them without causing unacceptable and horrific collateral casualties."

Yeah, I'm going to need to see proof of that claim. Clear satellite images will be adequate...... *crickets*

Implementation of Minsk Agreements a condition for IMF credits--Lagarde

3/4/2015

Largarde: IMF credits to Kiev depend on implementing of the Minsk Agreement.

Translated from Russian by J.Hawk

The IMF Executive Director Christine Lagarde made this statement during an interview on the MSNBC TV channel. According to Lagarde, financial aid to Kiev will depend on the stability of situation in Eastern Ukraine.

Lagarde also said that Ukraine is right now in a serious economic crisis which is affecting both the country’s economy and budget, to the point of putting it on the edge of default.

“The government is trying to improve the situation through external borrowing. The IMF opened a two-year credit line for Ukraine with up to $17.5 billion available. The overall financing of Ukraine by IMF and other sources may reach $40 billion,” underscored Lagarde.

The IMF Board of Directors is expected to approve the new Ukraine aid packet on March 11.

Lagarde also said that the crisis in Eastern Ukraine is seriously delaying economic reforms.

“European politicians are in agreement that the only way to resolve the crisis in Ukraine is through the Minsk Agreement. The meeting of Russian, Ukrainian, French, and German leaders in Minsk on February 12 resulted in a set of measures which include a ceasefire starting on February 15, followed by a withdrawal of heavy weapons and the establishment of a security zone.”

J.Hawk's Comment: Lagarde is no doubt honest about her desire to avoid further fighting. After all, if Kiev defaults, it's IMF's money on the line, after all. It's another question what Kiev's priorities are. It seems unlikely that there will be any fighting prior to the next IMF tranche. However, after March 11 all bets are off. Zakharchenko did warn of a likelihood of escalation in February-April time-frame, and it may well be that the current calm is simply motivated by the need to get the money from the IMF, then resume fighting. Western leaders are already making statements to the effect that any violation of Minsk Agreements would result in new sanctions against Russia. Are these statements motivated by the obvious weakness of Kiev's military forces and by concern that Novorossia might want to exploit that weakness, or diplomatic and ideological preparation for the next Kiev provocation?