The Situation in the Ukraine. #3

there will be many more deats of innocent ukranians and russians from nazi hunta ,america is desparate for escalation in next few days, theyll start artillery and rocket attacks on rebel cities for sure with many casualties. this people are cold and calculated ,russia must restrain for some time ,it will be hard to watch.
and macedonian get all your euros out of your bank -tomorrow ,dont wait.

Russia must act now. Decisive military campaign is a must. That could've easily happened in Crimea as well if it wasn't for Russian marines.

There's series of tweets from Guardian's Howard Amos who returned to the scene of the massacre.
These two stood out to me:

HA wrote:Just spoke to a mother and father who came to see what was happening and found the dead body of their 17 year old son lying in the street.
Mother said that her son, one of the pro-Russian activists, was not a separatist. She said he had fallen from the burning building.

17 years old FFS

Regular wrote:Russia must act now. Decisive military campaign is a must. That could've easily happened in Crimea as well if it wasn't for Russian marines.

this is that part of the conflict where its best to count to ten and not let emotion come in the way of judgement. Putin is an intelligent and dangerous man in de positive sense. he will not take the bait of Kiev/NATO so easily. like a game of chess he is not going to fall for obvious moves.

Russia already came out as a victor today. the "pro-russian side" shot down three helicopters that will have tremendous impact on the morale of the Ukrainian troops will to fight. two helicopters, MI-24 is more or less a symbol of security for ukraine ground forces like the AH-64 is for Western troops. and its not motivating to know your opponent has MANPADS and AT-weapons in its arsenal and clearly know how to operate them effectively.

i do feel a bit of sympathy for the rescued MI-24 pilot, to be left to die by your own side is just sickening. im curious what he will say when he regains consiousness.

still, the loss of life over a rediculous powergame by the West in Ukraine today is just too sad to put into words. it also make me feel that all that talk about how "we" in the west should never allow fascism does not mean anything. and that politicians should be imprisoned for life for disrespecting all those men that died in world war 2 against the nazi's for their audacity to even attend such memorials while they put neo-nazi's into power in Kiev.

Maybe You are right, but I don't want to see more people getting killed. Funny to say but war would be less costly as Ukrainian army would fold in a day

All sentiments considered, I too think that they shouldn't be hasty in the current set of circumstances.
What bothers me though, is that (to my untrained eye) they seem to be reacting to the moves, rather than making them first.
I expect more from a former KGB agent, but it may well be me who has the wrong perception. Actually that's quite certain.

Construction new barricades. Donetsk. apparently today may 2.

Firebird wrote:
What bothers me though, is that (to my untrained eye) they seem to be reacting to the moves, rather than making them first.
I expect more from a former KGB agent,

This is what strike me most of everything.. Russia could have avoided this major conflict , and even avoid a potential major war ,not only with Ukraine but also with NATO.. by just sending about 3,000 martial arts soldiers ,experts in combat undercover acting as Pro Yakunovych activist and knocking down every maidanut that was burning buildings and throwing rocks.. and help police to clear kiev capital from the neo nazis. It was said even by Yakunovych that they captured many foreigners crossing the borders that were NOT ukrainians with the intention to participate in the "revolution".  Is just Sickening how Russia learned NOTHING with the Arab Spring how NATO lead all the revolutions and did not anticipated Ukraine will be next after Syria.. how something so simple as sending a couple of thousands strong police from Russia could have done a HUGE difference. Also send security to protect weapons depots in western cities. But Putin major problem is always that he tries to play political correctness and ends being always late in any conflict.

When you think about it ,you will see that Putin did not send 3,000 undercover police to help yakunovych maintain order and democracy ,even if later he is not elected. and now Putin sooner or later will be forced to send 40,000 soldiers with tanks into Ukraine to restore order.something that not only will be incredibly expensive to maintain ,but that could come with loses in human lives to their own soldiers and will create unrest in all Russia ,while NATO can endlessly send mercenaries from abroad to create a long conflict as they do in Syria.. Is like complete Stupidity.  the way i see it.. Russia left alone Yakunovych to deal with the protest and now is paying a high price for not helping him maintain power.

Full report of the Odessa neo nazi massacre.

http://en.itar-tass.com/world/730303

The disturbance began in Odessa in the daytime on Friday with a mass brawl at Grecheskaya Street. It was instigated by football fans from Kharkov and Right Sector and Self-Defence radicals from Kiev, who decided to organize a march on Odessa streets. They provoked clashes with federalization supporters. Forcing them out, radicals set fire to a camp at Kulikovo Field where activists collected signatures to hold a referendum on federalization of Ukraine and the official status of the Russian language. Activists from the camp escaped to the nearby building of the regional House of Trade Unions, and radicals set fire to the building. When the fire reached the upper floors, many of the people there died from smoke. Others jumped from upper floors and died when falling. Those who survived were cruelly beaten by Kiev radicals with batons. Regional council member and Odessa mayoral candidate Alexei Albu was also attacked. "When we came out of the burning building, a crowd of nationalists attacked us. I can say that about a hundred people were hurt. People jumped out of windows. Everything was in smoke. People lying on the ground were kicked with feet. I and one of our activists, Vlad, have serious head injuries. We are heading for a hospital. Earlier in the day, our activist Ivan received a bullet wound. Right Sector members who attacked the House of Trade Unions were fully equipped, armed and prepared beforehand," Albu said. He is in a hospital where he has received first aid. wrote:

goddamn it, russia must act now mafia-style. Hit them back with 100 times the firepower, destroy the nazi fcks, crush them!!!

macedonian wrote:There's series of tweets from Guardian's Howard Amos who returned to the scene of the massacre.
These two stood out to me:

HA wrote:Just spoke to a mother and father who came to see what was happening and found the dead body of their 17 year old son lying in the street.
Mother said that her son, one of the pro-Russian activists, was not a separatist. She said he had fallen from the burning building.

17 years old FFS

The problem with Odessa is that they too polite to deal with the thugs of Lviv
in the east after so many batles with the army have 10 dead .. or something

ODESSA ALREADY 30++
IF THEY DO NOT TAKE ARMS.. dont expect things will become better ..

collegeboy16 wrote:goddamn it, russia must act now mafia-style. Hit them back with 100 times the firepower, destroy the nazi fcks, crush them!!!

Fully agree, now the question is when, not if but WHEN!!!   

Im sure Russia should have by now ,Special Forces inside the besiege zones..and outside too. Invading with Tanks not good.. Fighting undercover armed forces with Kornets and manpads can break the siege easily. a 300 hundred force armed to the teeth will do the trick of ending the sieges. Russia also could smuggle precision artillery and target blockades 15km away. Many things they can do. Before a full scale invasion.. Civilians spies important too.. for the logistics.

collegeboy16 wrote:goddamn it, russia must act now mafia-style. Hit them back with 100 times the firepower, destroy the nazi fcks, crush them!!!

the takeover of Zaporitsa would do ..
(has the largest nuk station in Europe .. almost half the electrical power Ukrane uses

Holy..shit.. in this is real? If the date in this video is right May 2 it seems that Russia is planning an invasion after all.  
And for what its looks they have Iskanders missiles there too but looks like overkill for countering what Ukraine have or perhaps toshka  

Whatever it is.. Looks like Russian forces are on preparations in crimea for an invasion.

NOOOO!!!!!Russia needs to win the hearts and minds of the majority of ukrainian people  to make them against the junta, not blow everyone up. Besides the fighting motivation of the ukrainian army would suddenly increase due to a percieved foreign power(russia) invading. As well as right sector would suddenly be viewed as patriotic defenders.

Vann7 wrote:Holy..shit.. in this is real? If the date in this video is right May 2 it seems that Russia is planning an invasion after all.  
And for what its looks they have Iskanders missiles there too but looks like overkill for countering what Ukraine have or perhaps toshka  

Whatever it is.. Looks like Russian forces are on preparations in crimea for an invasion.

Actually it was Bastion anti ship missile complex as the second vehicle was CP with radar. Video could be made in time of military exercise few days ago and write a date later for propaganda.

Apparently Italian soldier is part of the crack down on Civilians.





10 killed, around 30 injured in Kramatorsk overnight fighting – self-defense leader.

apparently the night fighting was not good for the anti kiev forces.. too many casualties/wounded.

http://rt.com/news/156552-kramatorsk-military-operation-resumed/

KomissarBojanchev wrote:NOOOO!!!!!Russia needs to win the hearts and minds of the majority of ukrainian people  to make them against the junta, not blow everyone up. Besides the fighting motivation of the ukrainian army would suddenly increase due to a percieved foreign power(russia) invading. As well as right sector would suddenly be viewed as patriotic defenders.

f... Right Sector NOW

the only way to win hearts and minds

Vann7 wrote:

Apparently Italian soldier is part of the crack down on Civilians.





10 killed, around 30 injured in Kramatorsk overnight fighting – self-defense leader.

apparently the night fighting was not good for the anti kiev forces.. too many casualties/wounded.

http://rt.com/news/156552-kramatorsk-military-operation-resumed/

dont forget time is ticking for the presintential election ..
what will happen if Odessa rises  also ?.

Vann7 wrote:

Im sure Russia should have by now ,Special Forces inside the besiege zones..and outside too. Invading with Tanks not good.. Fighting undercover armed forces with Kornets and manpads can break the siege easily. a 300 hundred force armed to the teeth will do the trick of ending the sieges. Russia also could smuggle precision artillery and target blockades 15km away. Many things they can do. Before a full scale invasion.. Civilians spies important too.. for the logistics.

x2 Ukrainian rag tag army could be demoralized by partisan tactics fairly quick. I bet there would be many traitors too

Vann7 wrote:10 killed, around 30 injured in Kramatorsk overnight fighting – self-defense leader.

apparently the night fighting was not good for the anti kiev forces.. too many casualties/wounded.

http://rt.com/news/156552-kramatorsk-military-operation-resumed/

5 dead and something like 12 injured from the Ukrainian mil side (or Pravyj Sektor, or whoever they're using)

arpakola wrote:

KomissarBojanchev wrote:NOOOO!!!!!Russia needs to win the hearts and minds of the majority of ukrainian people  to make them against the junta, not blow everyone up. Besides the fighting motivation of the ukrainian army would suddenly increase due to a percieved foreign power(russia) invading. As well as right sector would suddenly be viewed as patriotic defenders.

f... Right Sector NOW

the only way to win hearts and minds

That is wrong. Let the majority of ukrainians themselves revolt(which is already developing, the odessa massacre will only decrease support of junta), russia should just help them with equipment. However right sector still is viewed by a huge part of the population there as honest patriots and the sight of them fighting foreign troops(russians) in ukrainian land  just increase their support, they being percieved as fighting against an invader. Winning the hearts and minds is not by storming their country with tanks. Its 100% certain that the junta opposition won't get more support from this. That way they will be seen as collaborators with invaders.

Its certain that the junta's control of the south east is minimal and will be decreasing even without russian army, so as they say don't fix the situation if its not broken.

PS the people of the south east are the majority pro russian ukrainians, not russians so russia wouldn't have the explanation that its people were threatened if it invaded there.