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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

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    Morpheus Eberhardt
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    The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:14 am

    Cut the off-topic ramblings guys (and Ladies if there are any).

    It's not easy to sift through pages after pages of write ups that only reflect the "Western" prole-feed.

    We need battlefield reports here.

    Morpheus Eberhardt
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:16 am

    Vann7 wrote:

    Is now the time for Good news on the Novorosiyan front.  Smile 



    Short clarification about the situation in Novorussia Dear friends..


    You probably all have heard that the Ukies are advancing on all fronts and even that they have taken Saur Mogila. I have carefully scanned all my news sources from the conflict area and this information is false.  What really happened is, indeed, the Ukies did launch massive attacks, one reportedly with 200 or so tanks. Battles have taken place in Gorlovka, the outskirts of Donestk and Lugansk, a particularly strong assault was given to Saur Mogila which had to be reinforced from Donetsk. There were many casualties on both sides but the key fact is this: all the attacks have failed and the Ukies have been pushed back.  There was also a rumor about Novorussian forces evacuating from Donetsk. This is plain false. A *hospital* with wounded soldiers was evacuated from Donetsk to Russia and a large number of Novorussian forces have also been sent from Donetsk to Saur Mogila. But this is most definitely not an evacuation of Donetsk.  The battle situation is still very heavy everywhere and it is too early to either rejoice or panic. All we can say is that so far the Novorussian forces are holding and that at Saur Mogila the Ukies had to retreat.  I hope that Gleb or Juan will be able to provide more details soon.  Kind regards,  The Saker

    http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.se/2014/07/short-clarification-about-situation-in.html



    Thanks Vann7. This is the kind of material we need here.

    Vann7
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  Vann7 on Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:26 am

    Very Interesting report.. on the politics front.

    ‘Yukos judgment marks true divorce between Russia and the West’



    The decision by the International Arbitration Court in the Netherlands is a political one and there is no mechanism that I am aware of for enforcing Russia to make the $50bn payment, energy asset manager
    Eric Kraus told RT.  

    RT: The International Arbitration Court in the Netherlands has ended a decade long case against Russia brought by shareholders in the defunct Yukos oil company. Why after so many years [did it crop up] today?  


    Eric Kraus: I think the timing is extremely suspicious. The entire judgment is rotten. Mr. Khodorkovsky was found guilty not only in Russian courts, but that guilty sentence for tax evasion and fraud was upheld by the European Court of Human Rights. It is an outrage that anyone should imagine that Russia is going to pay 50 billion dollars to these criminals.  

    RT: How will the situation develop? Will Russia pay this sum?  

    EK: How it is going to develop? Basically this is a judgment which is going to have no real consequences. The Russian state will never pay. The Russian Duma never ratified the treaty under which this judgment has been made. It is not a legally binding judgment. To get settlement from the Russian state is impossible. I would invite you to look at the attempts that have been made to enforce judgments against Argentina, which have failed.  But this judgment is significant as it marks a true divorce between Russia and the West. I personally have been working for 17 years to build economic relations between Russia and the West and we have failed. Russia must now turn away from Western powers and look to the rising world, to the rising countries of the East."

    RT: Is there somebody behind such a sudden arbitration decision? Or the International Arbitration Court in the Netherlands has just finally examined the case to pronounce judgment?

    EK: Personally I would put the responsibility with Washington, not with Europe. Europe is the tail, Washington is the dog. Europe has not been able to articulate a reasonable foreign policy response, and there are people in Washington who make very good careers out of creating trouble with Russia, out of portraying Russia as the enemy. Russia is not the enemy, but Russia is an independent state with its own needs, its own foreign policy and this obviously does not please Washington.

    RT: Is it a fair decision meaning how much fraud was conducted by the ex-Yukos and Menotep officials?

    EK: It strikes me as a very political decision. The West manages to create this illusion of fair play, of rule of law, of fairness in the judicial process, and this is a bad joke. Russia will appeal it but even if they lose an appeal, there is essentially no way to enforce the judgment unless the Russian state decides to pay it, and I do not see the Russian state paying money to a group of murderers and fraudsters. The people who ran Menotep were the worst old-type oligarchs, and Russia is simply not going to pay. There is no mechanism that I am aware of for enforcing payment.


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:34 am

    This I was saying already.

    Point is, western world is not in the position to really push anyone economically.

    http://www.usdebtclock.org/

    http://www.eudebtclock.org/

    When you really put it into perspective, many EU countries are hurting, and increasing energy costs will only add insult to injury.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  onwiththewar on Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:23 am

    sepheronx wrote:This I was saying already.

    Point is, western world is not in the position to really push anyone economically.

    http://www.usdebtclock.org/

    http://www.eudebtclock.org/

    When you really put it into perspective, many EU countries are hurting, and increasing energy costs will only add insult to injury.

    The things is, even if it hurts Russia in the short term, what's the big deal? Russia is such a vast country, with so much resources, bordering so may countries of Europe and Asia, and will never never run out of markets or things to sell.

    It's been in the talks to, you know, open more markets, improve domestic demands, boost local manufacturing etc. Now it's the time to actually do it. If Russia relies on exporting raw material or natural resources, Russia will not get better. So we thank EU and US to make Russia to have another reason, and the urgency to be economically independent and diverse.

    Plus, these peanuts "sanctions" don't hurt much, compared to the massive gas deal (with $25B prepayment from China), I I wonder if the lost out of the sanctions are worth 10% of the gas deal.

    EU don't want to trade, let them be. If you look at Euro's shameless negative interest rates and more than 50% youth unemployment rates in some EU countries. In no time, they are going to whine and winge again (as always).




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    Possibly an An-30 Being Shot Down

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:26 pm

    arpakola wrote:http://www.kontrtube.ru/videos/3438/unichtojenie-samoleta-karateley/


    Any updates on this? Looks to me like an An-30, by the way.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  dionis on Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:35 pm

    TR1 wrote:
    An average Russian citizen is far worse off in terms of economic standing and opportunity. Small Russian cities and villages are holes. Absolute holes.
    Hell even the big ones look like dumps in many places. Yes yes, there is Detroit, but let's be honest here. It is not a comparison that favors Russia.
    Moscow at one point had the most millionaires in the world. Do you know what the average income was? What sort of living situation the average person found themselves compared to the elites?

    Look, I've lived in both countries. It pains me to say, but its overall just a better life in the US today, no comparison.

    There are dumps all over the place in the US... including parts of the 'top' cities. Most large cities here I'd never consider moving to. (That's coming from someone who is Russian/Ukrainian and lived there, who also lived in India, Singapore and then studied plus currently work in the US for a few years.. to give you some perspective of what I've seen first hand). I can show you dumps right here in Boston, and Boston is probably a top 3 not including SF and NYC.

    Given the size of Russia, are you surprised? I can show you some s-s-s-serious dumps from all over the US.


    sepheronx
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:36 pm

    onwiththewar wrote:
    sepheronx wrote:This I was saying already.

    Point is, western world is not in the position to really push anyone economically.

    http://www.usdebtclock.org/

    http://www.eudebtclock.org/

    When you really put it into perspective, many EU countries are hurting, and increasing energy costs will only add insult to injury.

    The things is, even if it hurts Russia in the short term, what's the big deal? Russia is such a vast country, with so much resources, bordering so may countries of Europe and Asia, and will never never run out of markets or things to sell.

    It's been in the talks to, you know, open more markets, improve domestic demands, boost local manufacturing etc. Now it's the time to actually do it. If Russia relies on exporting raw material or natural resources, Russia will not get better. So we thank EU and US to make Russia to have another reason, and the urgency to be economically independent and diverse.

    Plus, these peanuts "sanctions" don't hurt much, compared to the massive gas deal (with $25B prepayment from China), I I wonder if the lost out of the sanctions are worth 10% of the gas deal.

    EU don't want to trade, let them be. If you look at Euro's shameless negative interest rates and more than 50% youth unemployment rates in some EU countries. In no time, they are going to whine and winge again (as always).




    Exactly.  Because the distance from Moscow to Vladivostok is 7K KM, they can essentially make it into another economic zone where they can trade between these two cities and expand domestic development.  Only other way they can do it is increase wages throughout Russia, thus increasing the domestic consumer worth, and thus they will spend more.  If Russia starts to really develop into the finished goods end of things, then expect lots of money flow.  Maybe Russia should seek building up Krasnoyarsk so that it becomes the main trading hub.  Already it is huge with Chinese investors and businesses.  So why not move major assets to that city, build it up, and make a major highway that goes through there to Asia (Mongolia, China, N/S Korea, etc).

    dionis wrote:
    TR1 wrote:
    An average Russian citizen is far worse off in terms of economic standing and opportunity. Small Russian cities and villages are holes. Absolute holes.
    Hell even the big ones look like dumps in many places. Yes yes, there is Detroit, but let's be honest here. It is not a comparison that favors Russia.
    Moscow at one point had the most millionaires in the world. Do you know what the average income was? What sort of living situation the average person found themselves compared to the elites?

    Look, I've lived in both countries. It pains me to say, but its overall just a better life in the US today, no comparison.

    There are dumps all over the place in the US... including parts of the 'top' cities. Most large cities here I'd never consider moving to. (That's coming from someone who is Russian/Ukrainian and lived there, who also lived in India, Singapore and then studied plus currently work in the US for a few years.. to give you some perspective of what I've seen first hand). I can show you dumps right here in Boston, and Boston is probably a top 3 not including SF and NYC.

    Given the size of Russia, are you surprised? I can show you some s-s-s-serious dumps from all over the US.


    As with Canada too. Many towns/villages northern Manitoba has trouble obtaining electricity or drinkable water (Beaver Fever is common). Russia is too spanned out, with too many monograds and towns that really have not seen development since it was first created. That is for sure. Moscow in itself would be a lot nicer than New Dheli with its shanty town as an example. South Russia has no development almost, and central/east only has a pocket of nice places. I would figure that it is high time they work on planned communities to do away with these villages/towns, and start working on the small cities that are in dire need of work. These are the areas where the big boom will happen especially in private enterprises (small and medium). Upgrade infrastructure in itself will probably do wonders.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  Vann7 on Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:37 pm

    When people say US *in general* is better than Russia because have a higher quality of life.. when it comes to modern cities ,entertainment ,infrastructure and night life that true. I said in general because there is poverty in both nations.. If you go to detroit for example a bankrupt city ,it looks like a third world nation of africa. Same with Souther cities and ive heard california is also bankrupt. and Russia also have many poor cities too.. US have 50 millions of people living in poverty . So is not any more the land of opportunities it used to be. But in general ,if you are allowed to pick where to live.. and you are not rich,you will likelly have a much better experience in USA living there when it comes to facilities. when it comes to shopping and variety of restaurants. That is things to do in your free time.

    But things people need to remember however when comparing both nations.. is that US have been living for more than 50 years and the worlds largest economy. thanks to the results of the world war 2.. they were the only nation not invaded or destroyed its infrastructure and that truly benefit its economy from the war selling weapons and arms.  They nuked Japan industrial capacity in world war 2 ,leaving behind any possibility for competition in the Auto industry for many decades. In short US economy have been stronger because is an artificial one.. is an economy of war ,based on fabricating money out of the thin air. Whenever they need to improve the economy..they just print more money.. based on blackmail of others to promote their interest .  and if not overthrow their governments and take control of its energy business.  Another thing people needs to remember is that RUssia is a much larger nation that USA.. Russia have ~4 times the size of continental USA with half the population. So naturally Russia needs to do a lot more to get the very same level of economy of US.

    But on the future things will change. US cannot maintain is artificial economy going.. the only nation in the world that can indefinitely take loans and never paid its debt. So things will change.. Not even US allies like France will continue supporting US to control the banking system and western economy. US economy depends on wars ,looting nations gold (as they did to Libya and Ukraine ) and in overthrowing governments to stay alive.

    All said . Even thought now is better quality of life in USA than Russia in general for the average people. (that is not rich) . Is not less true that the signs of change is happening. you can clearly see that when China is buying US cities and basically the no longer producing anything in home. and US simply moving their industry abroad with cheaper labor. The abuse of printing money to artificially improve their quality of life is already kicking. and the prices of homes and education or health care is one of the most expensive in the world.

    To raise a new family , Russia is a million time better. Because US is turning into a police state. where police shoot first and ask question later if you still alive. When you no longer have rights ,and your freedoms totally taken. Since the Government is becoming more and more into a Dictatorship Totalitarian state ,they are spying 24 hours on all their people. And pushing to take control of society of levels you could only see in Holywood movies.

    So US will become a nightmare place to live perhaps as soon as 10 years.. the more and more they lose their economic power and world leadership and no longer can continue artificially creating money from the thin air. Is a nation doomed to fall. Because the only its War Economy can continue growing is by taking total control of the planet and anyone who stand in the middle. and that is not going to happen.

    All said .. Russia is the new America.. the new land of opportunities , even american Olympic athletes and from other nations are moving To Russia to fulfill their dreams.. This is Huge people. Such things will have NEVER happened under the soviet union.. and american moving to Russia to represent them.Those are signs Russia is changing for good, and winning in sports too.. those are signs Russia is already a super power. and they eventually will modernize their nation completely but with a Real economy backed by real resources and labor and not by artificial methods.  Is like the roles have inverted and Russia is becoming the new land of Freedom.. and US a new and more destructive and negative soviet union.  Unless american overthrow their government ,that nation will become a Prison or simple disband in many parts.

    This is why there is an economic war on Russia. because both nations cannot coexist together , US depends of wars and violence and controlling others nations to maintain its economy and maintaining its leadership.. and such policy directly oppose Russia policy. So yes US for now have a better quality of life ,but their artificial economy will not last. I really cannot imagine living in a police state ,where everything is illegal and everyone threaten as a terrorist ,where citizens are scared to be killed of their own police or their own government  with drones filled with missiles flying above your residence. US is moving towards a totalitarian state. if you dont know what is that.. look no further than North Korea ,where any thing can be illegal and you can be arrested for any silly thing..

    Welcome to the new America.. Police state.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6C2IBQdgyI

    here for TR1 who wish Russia was like USA ..some of the comments in the video.. Smile 

    Dan Wilcox1 :
    "There goes that so-called "freedom". Now they have the nerve to force people to get permits."

    Charles Weeden:
    "First chance I get. I'm getting the hell out of this country. Scandinavia here I come."

    In US now being homeless and camping in the wilderness away of cities is a crime and people threat you like terrorist and you can be killed. People who wants to do exercise could be arrested if do not do it in the right place. US will only get worse as time pass . There are laws that are being pushed ,to install Cameras in people houses ,so that the state can monitor how you educate your children . Etc.  US is becoming a Prison and even thought the infrastructure in many cities is modern.. it will be a modern prison. Almost anything will become illegal and interference in people lives is becoming ridiculous. and the ridiculous sexual harrassment in airports takes the cake.



    Last edited by Vann7 on Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:22 pm; edited 8 times in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  arpakola on Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:10 pm


    this may be true.. (who knows..?)

    ======================
    also ..


    Site of battle near Shakhtyorsk....remains of Ukranian Army National Guard convoy.









    ===============================


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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  arpakola on Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:23 pm

    http://www.iskra.gr/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=17154%3Apatelis-ntonetsk&catid=37%3Adi-evropi&Itemid=172

    According to the article , the change in the political leadership of Donetsk , that is the replacement  of Denis Poussilin by the communist Boris Litvinof (as from 23 of July..) has the result to differentiate the Donbass revolution from Moscow plans.
    This may be the reason of the unexplainable pathetic attitude  of Russian leadership to the mass murders taking place in Donbass. Maybe the Moscow oligarhs .. preffer Poroshenko and Yiaros then the latin America style revolutionaries of Donbass.



    Iskra - Dima Patelis wrote:  Με τις στρατιωτικο-πολιτικές ανακατατάξεις που επήλθαν μετά την έξοδο από την περικύκλωση των στρατευμάτων των ανταρτών στο Σλαβιάνσκ και στο Κραματόρσκ, συνδέεται μεταξύ άλλων και η παραίτηση του Ντενίς Πουσίλιν από το Ανώτατο Σοβιέτ της Λαϊκής Δημοκρατίας του Ντονέτσκ.

    Από 23 Ιουλίου του 14 στο αξίωμα αυτό εξελέγη ο κομμουνιστής Μπορίς Αλεξέγιεβιτς Λιτβίνοφ. Μέχρι πρότινος γραμματέας του κομματικού πυρήνα της περιφέρειας Κίροφ του Κομμουνιστικού Κόμματος Ουκρανίας στην πόλη Ντονέτσκ. Η εναλλαγή αυτή στα ανώτατα όργανα της εξεργεμένης Λαϊκής Δημοκρατίας είναι ιδιαίτερα σημαδιακή. Ο Λιτβίνοφ είναι ο συντάκτης της Διακήρυξης της Ανεξαρτησίας της Λαϊκής Δημοκρατίας του Ντονιέτσκ (7.4.2014), όπου μεταξύ άλλων αναφέρεται: “Η Δημοκρατία διασφαλίζει τους όρους για την ελεύθερη ανάπτυξη και προστασία των συνταγματικώς αναγνωρισμένων μορφών ιδιοκτησίας, οι οποίες αποκλείουν την οικειοποίηση των αποτελεσμάτων ξένης εργασίας, ενώ θεωρεί πρωτεύουσας σημασίας τις συλλογικές μορφές ιδιοκτησίας”.

    Ο Μπορίς Αλεξέγιεβιτς Λιτβίνοφ
    Ο προκάτοχός του συνδέεται με τις παλινωδίες αναφορικά με την εθνικοποίηση των επιχειρήσεων της ολιγαρχίας του κεφαλαίου. Η κλιμάκωση του ένοπλου αγώνα στην επαναστατημένη “Νέα Ρωσία” συνοδεύεται με απαλλαγή από ιδεολογικοπολιτικές ασάφειες, απροσδιοριστία και αυταπάτες, με όλο και πιο σαφή κοινωνικό – ταξικό προσανατολισμό της πολιτικής και της ηγεσίας της. Αυτό υπαγορεύει η λογική της ένοπλης εξέγερσης και της επανάστασης. Σε αυτή την κατεύθυνση “συμβάλλει” και η όλο και πιο σαφής αποστασιοποίηση της κυβέρνησης της Μόσχας από τους εξεγερμένους.

    Η αλλαγή αυτή στην ηγεσία λαμβάνει χώρα τη στιγμή που σε πεδίο μαχών έχουν ήδη μετατραπεί τα περίχωρα της πρωτεύουσας της Λαϊκής Δημοκρατίας.

    Η πολεμική μηχανή της φασιστικής χούντας με τους μισθοφόρους φονιάδες στην πρώτη γραμμή και την απροκάλυπτη οικονομική, πολιτική, στρατιωτική, τεχνική και οργανωτική στήριξη ΗΠΑ, ΝΑΤΟ και ΕΕ, κλιμακώνει μαζικούς βομβαρδισμούς από αέρος, με βαρύ πυροβολικό και με συστοιχίες πυραύλων, αξιοποιώντας τη συντριπτική υλική υπεροχή της. Χρησιμοποιήσει σε ευρεία κλίμακα απαγορευμένα όπλα που πλήττουν κυρίως τον άμαχο πληθυσμό: βόμβες διασποράς, εμπρηστικές βόμβες φωσφόρου και χημικά όπλα (βλ. π.χ. Ukraine: Atrocities committed by the US-Supported Ukrainian National Guard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WN_Mbe9u-vE , Killing Civilians in Eastern Ukraine: Ukrainian Democracy? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WC0V_WXyvc). Με τον αριθμό των θυμάτων και το πρωτοφανές κύμα προσφύγων που προκαλεί, στοιχειοθετεί ένα έγκλημα γενοκτονίας.
    D. Patelis is professor of History and Philosophy in the University o Krete (Hania town..)
    http://tuc.academia.edu/DimitriosPatelis

    ========================================

    save DONBASS people NOT the Oligarhs..

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  arpakola on Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:54 pm

    any translation on this ??
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lgfa_kWm4_k&fmt=18

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  Morpheus Eberhardt on Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:17 pm

    arpakola wrote:
    According to the article , the change in the political leadership of Donetsk , that is the replacement  of Denis Poussilin by the communist Boris Litvinof (as from 23 of July..) has the result to differentiate the Donbass revolution from Moscow plans.
    This may be the reason of the unexplainable pathetic attitude  of Russian leadership to the mass murders taking place in Donbass. Maybe the Moscow oligarhs .. preffer Poroshenko and Yiaros then the latin America style revolutionaries of Donbass.


    The biggest question regarding the situation in Novorossiya is which variant of the outcomes Russia has written the scenario for. I'll list a number of variants with reference to historical analogs:

    1- The Crimean variant. I don't really consider this as a serious possibility for Novorossiya.

    2- The Abkhazian or South Ossetian variant. Some relatively low probability of this being the case.

    3- The Spanish (Republicans) or the Persian Soviet Socialist Republic variant. Unfortunately it may seem that the Persian Soviet Socialist Republic might match the Novorussian scenario closely, hopefully not though. I'll include a couple of picture below to give some perspective.

    4- Other variants. Let's leave these for later.





    The person in the middle was Mirza Kuchak who was the Persian (Iranian) counterpart of Igor' Strelkov.


    Last edited by Morpheus Eberhardt on Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:53 pm; edited 4 times in total

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  Werewolf on Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:18 pm

    arpakola wrote:any translation on this ??
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lgfa_kWm4_k&fmt=18

    I will try to translate and give only the important things he said.

    In this video i only present facts and do not make any assumptions.

    This video is not created in laboratory of FSB, but is spread on Ukrainian television on 16.7.2014.

    On this Video you see the Missile complex BUK, then the Acquisition Radar KOPUL, and the transport platfform which are usually not used to transport BUK, but exact ths plattform was used and illustrated on Ukrainian side.

    And that's it.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  arpakola on Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:00 pm

    http://wahrheitfuerdeutschland.de/?p=3622
    Ukrainischer Pilot gibt Abschuss von MH17 zu
    Letztendlich war der Druck doch zu groß. Der Pilot der ukrainischen Su-25, die in der Präsentation des russischen Generalstabs gezeigt wurde, gab gestern zu, das Flugzeug mit seiner Bordkanone flugunfähig geschossen zu haben. Übereinstimmend wurden dazu Fotos der abgestürzten Boing gezeigt, die klare Einschlaglöcher von Maschinengewehrkugeln enthielt, die übereinstimmend einen frontalen Winkel zeigten und kaum von einer Buk-Rakete herrühren konnten. Bei vielen Pro-Russland Schreiberlingen in den Foren und Kommentarspalten des Internets stießen diese Beichte auf Erleichterung. Ein kleiner Sieg für die Putinversteher, die bisher erfolglos versuchten das Internet mit ihren Fakten zu überschwemmen.  


    ==================================
    according to this also the Su25 pilot admits that shot the Malaysian plane..!!
    http://www.defencenet.gr/defence/item/%CE%BF%CF%85%CE%BA%CF%81%CE%B1%CE%BD%CF%8C%CF%82-%CF%80%CE%B9%CE%BB%CF%8C%CF%84%CE%BF%CF%82-%CE%AD%CE%B3%CF%8E-%CE%AD%CF%81%CE%B9%CE%BE%CE%B1-%CF%83%CF%84%CE%BF-%CE%BC%CE%B1%CE%BB%CE%B1%CE%B9%CF%83%CE%B9%CE%B1%CE%BD%CF%8C-boeing


    Last edited by arpakola on Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:05 pm; edited 1 time in total

    Vann7
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  Vann7 on Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:02 pm

    Maybe the Moscow oligarhs .. preffer Poroshenko and Yiaros then the latin America style revolutionaries of Donbass.


    Not really.. When you think about Ukraine..
    Imagine the Titanic .Ukraine is a sinking Ship.. and Russia do not want to invade
    when a major revolution start and that Kiev later blame Russia for their economical problems.
    Russia best thing can do for now.. if they want to help is undercover help so that the Rebels can hold.

    If Russia invade with its army , probably the ukraine army will surrender or probably not.. but what is certain
    is that the Western media will have a field day with fabricated reports of Russia killing civilians ,to try to direct all
    Ukraine angers towards Russia and not against Poroshenko and kiev. Remember that the vast majority of Ukrainians
    only see the media KIEV allows they to see. Russian media is banned.

    Another major issue will happen is that other cities will rebel too.. and will want Russia to help them..
    So Russia will have to invade with tanks not only Donetsk and lugansk.. but probably most of Ukraine all the way to kiev. and will have to decapitate Kiev leadership and even forced to invade all ukraine all the way to LVIV city,if Ukraine start launching ballistic missiles to Russian cities..

    A major ethnic cleansing of Russians in all cities can start by neo Nazis ,to force Russia invade.
    Is an economic trap.. to force Russia to stay in Ukraine for Years and with NATO sending mercenaries
    to fight them. This is why for Russia is very important.. that before Russia invade the public Opinion of the vast
    majority of Ukrainians in with Russia.. and they not seen as invaders.. as was the case of Crimea but as liberators.






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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:24 pm

    arpakola wrote:http://www.iskra.gr/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=17154%3Apatelis-ntonetsk&catid=37%3Adi-evropi&Itemid=172

    According to the article , the change in the political leadership of Donetsk , that is the replacement  of Denis Poussilin by the communist Boris Litvinof (as from 23 of July..) has the result to differentiate the Donbass revolution from Moscow plans.
    This may be the reason of the unexplainable pathetic attitude  of Russian leadership to the mass murders taking place in Donbass. Maybe the Moscow oligarhs .. preffer Poroshenko and Yiaros then the latin America style revolutionaries of Donbass.



    Iskra - Dima Patelis wrote:  Με τις στρατιωτικο-πολιτικές ανακατατάξεις που επήλθαν μετά την έξοδο από την περικύκλωση των στρατευμάτων των ανταρτών στο Σλαβιάνσκ και στο Κραματόρσκ, συνδέεται μεταξύ άλλων και η παραίτηση του Ντενίς Πουσίλιν από το Ανώτατο Σοβιέτ της Λαϊκής Δημοκρατίας του Ντονέτσκ.

    Από 23 Ιουλίου του 14 στο αξίωμα αυτό εξελέγη ο κομμουνιστής Μπορίς Αλεξέγιεβιτς Λιτβίνοφ. Μέχρι πρότινος γραμματέας του κομματικού πυρήνα της περιφέρειας Κίροφ του Κομμουνιστικού Κόμματος Ουκρανίας στην πόλη Ντονέτσκ. Η εναλλαγή αυτή στα ανώτατα όργανα της εξεργεμένης Λαϊκής Δημοκρατίας είναι ιδιαίτερα σημαδιακή. Ο Λιτβίνοφ είναι ο συντάκτης της Διακήρυξης της Ανεξαρτησίας της Λαϊκής Δημοκρατίας του Ντονιέτσκ (7.4.2014), όπου μεταξύ άλλων αναφέρεται: “Η Δημοκρατία διασφαλίζει τους όρους για την ελεύθερη ανάπτυξη και προστασία των συνταγματικώς αναγνωρισμένων μορφών ιδιοκτησίας, οι οποίες αποκλείουν την οικειοποίηση των αποτελεσμάτων ξένης εργασίας, ενώ θεωρεί πρωτεύουσας σημασίας τις συλλογικές μορφές ιδιοκτησίας”.

    Ο Μπορίς Αλεξέγιεβιτς Λιτβίνοφ
    Ο προκάτοχός του συνδέεται με τις παλινωδίες αναφορικά με την εθνικοποίηση των επιχειρήσεων της ολιγαρχίας του κεφαλαίου. Η κλιμάκωση του ένοπλου αγώνα στην επαναστατημένη “Νέα Ρωσία” συνοδεύεται με απαλλαγή από ιδεολογικοπολιτικές ασάφειες, απροσδιοριστία και αυταπάτες, με όλο και πιο σαφή κοινωνικό – ταξικό προσανατολισμό της πολιτικής και της ηγεσίας της. Αυτό υπαγορεύει η λογική της ένοπλης εξέγερσης και της επανάστασης. Σε αυτή την κατεύθυνση “συμβάλλει” και η όλο και πιο σαφής αποστασιοποίηση της κυβέρνησης της Μόσχας από τους εξεγερμένους.

    Η αλλαγή αυτή στην ηγεσία λαμβάνει χώρα τη στιγμή που σε πεδίο μαχών έχουν ήδη μετατραπεί τα περίχωρα της πρωτεύουσας της Λαϊκής Δημοκρατίας.

    Η πολεμική μηχανή της φασιστικής χούντας με τους μισθοφόρους φονιάδες στην πρώτη γραμμή και την απροκάλυπτη οικονομική, πολιτική, στρατιωτική, τεχνική και οργανωτική στήριξη ΗΠΑ, ΝΑΤΟ και ΕΕ, κλιμακώνει μαζικούς βομβαρδισμούς από αέρος, με βαρύ πυροβολικό και με συστοιχίες πυραύλων, αξιοποιώντας τη συντριπτική υλική υπεροχή της. Χρησιμοποιήσει σε ευρεία κλίμακα απαγορευμένα όπλα που πλήττουν κυρίως τον άμαχο πληθυσμό: βόμβες διασποράς, εμπρηστικές βόμβες φωσφόρου και χημικά όπλα (βλ. π.χ. Ukraine: Atrocities committed by the US-Supported Ukrainian National Guard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WN_Mbe9u-vE , Killing Civilians in Eastern Ukraine: Ukrainian Democracy? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WC0V_WXyvc). Με τον αριθμό των θυμάτων και το πρωτοφανές κύμα προσφύγων που προκαλεί, στοιχειοθετεί ένα έγκλημα γενοκτονίας.
    D. Patelis is professor of History and Philosophy in the University o Krete (Hania town..)
    http://tuc.academia.edu/DimitriosPatelis

    ========================================

    save DONBASS people NOT the Oligarhs..


    Gosh this is one of the most retarded posts of all time. Marxist scum of Crete you post here! This subhumans need execution they are a disgrace for Greece. The Greek equivalents of TR1

    TR1
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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  TR1 on Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:44 pm

    I am not a Marxist, you high?

    They deserve the same grave as Putin and his thieves.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  Regular on Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:45 pm

    Marxist subhumans, executions. You sound like classic Nazi.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  TR1 on Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:46 pm

    Read the guy's post history, a true nut-case.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  sepheronx on Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:02 pm

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-28/washingtons-ukrainian-fiasco-who-real-problem-here

    Well worth the read.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  arpakola on Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:21 pm

    TR1 wrote:Read the guy's post history, a true nut-case.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-07-28/washingtons-ukrainian-fiasco-who-real-problem-here

    Well worth the read.  

    keep talkin in the article of the sufering of Ukraine from Soviets.. the fanny thing is that
    Stalin was a Georgian and Nikita Hrutsov was Ukranian.. now days Poroshenko and Shakasvili joinly accusing Russia for everything.

    as for the writer .. at the moment we need all participants to repel NATo and their fascist puppets.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:11 pm

    A resource of mine claims that we intend to create unrest at Kherson. He has good information. We will see if he proves correct.

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  arpakola on Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:39 pm

    Hannibal Barca wrote:A resource of mine claims that we intend to create unrest at Kherson. He has good information. We will see if he proves correct.
    "Народного мэра" Николаева задержали спецслужбы
    http://lifenews.ru/news/137510

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    Re: The Situation in the Ukraine. #7

    Post  Hannibal Barca on Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:44 pm

    He actually gave me detailed plans I don't want to say here, but I will check him if he is trustworthy or simply enthusiastic.

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