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    PAK-DA: News

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    Isos

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Isos on Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:52 am

    Vladimir79 wrote:If we are going to keep the strategic aviation we need a replacement.  The Tu-95 was a beast of its day but I am almost embarrassed that we still fly it.  At least we should have built more Tu-160 to replace those until a new generation could be conceived.  If we are not building more Tu-160 we need something immediately or strategic aviation could be lost.

    For launching cruise missile with a range of 5000km you don't need anything new. Tu-95 is more than enough.
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    LMFS

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  LMFS on Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:43 am

    Why would Russia need to be embarrassed for using the Tu-95 while it is useful? It is old but B-52 is older and planned to be serving for a century until 2050s by those guys operating the dollar printing machine...


    Last edited by LMFS on Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Hole

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Hole on Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:43 am

    "Strategic Aviation will be lost". Pease, stop this BS. Like Isos said, the Tu-95MS is a missile carrier. Even a Tu-214 would do it.
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:44 am

    Isos wrote:For launching cruise missile with a range of 5000km you don't need anything new. Tu-95 is more than enough.

    There is no cruise missile with that range nor will you find any tests of it that far. Every test to date has been under 2000km on the Kamchatka or Kazakhstan ranges. With the vast aerial refueling capabilities of the USAF even their fighters can patrol out to launch points of easily detectable Tu-95.
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:47 am

    Hole wrote:"Strategic Aviation will be lost". Pease, stop this BS. Like Isos said, the Tu-95MS is a missile carrier. Even a Tu-214 would do it.

    You are missing the point, they do not have the speed or stealth to avoid escape. As I just stated the cruise missile range is nothing like people think it is.
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    miketheterrible

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  miketheterrible on Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:57 am

    I trust when the manufacturer says it has those ranges. And what MoD also says. So we can "assume" it does vs it doesn't but they state it does so it probably has those ranges.

    Khinzal was stated with 3,000km range by the president. Fact is, cruise missiles like Kh-101 would have more
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:13 am

    miketheterrible wrote:I trust when the manufacturer says it has those ranges. And what MoD also says. So we can "assume" it does vs it doesn't but they state it does so it probably has those ranges.

    Khinzal was stated with 3,000km range by the president. Fact is, cruise missiles like Kh-101 would have more

    The manufacturers are not able to state the ranges of strategic weapons as they are classified and has always been the case. It is estimates by scaremonger analysts that make those claims. The only estimate based in fact is demonstrated range.
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    dino00

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  dino00 on Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:42 pm

    The application of this missile showed a very high degree of reliability. This is really the most modern weapon, with high-precision and high-power, and a decent range of 4,500 kilometers," Putin told a meeting of the Commission on Military Technical Cooperation of Russia with Foreign States, according to a transcript posted on the Kremlin's website.

    Putin word yes sir
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:14 pm

    The Tu-95 only launched it at 1000km, fact. Putin's word is butt-kiss with his fake nuclear cruise missile that only flies 22 miles.
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    SeigSoloyvov

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  SeigSoloyvov on Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:15 pm

    dino00 wrote:The application of this missile showed a very high degree of reliability. This is really the most modern weapon, with high-precision and high-power, and a decent range of 4,500 kilometers," Putin told a meeting of the Commission on Military Technical Cooperation of Russia with Foreign States, according to a transcript posted on the Kremlin's website.

    Putin word yes sir

    Just because Putin says something that doesn't make it true, Things need to be backed up with facts not "He said, she said".
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    dino00

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  dino00 on Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:22 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:The Tu-95 only launched it at 1000km, fact.  Putin's word is butt-kiss with his fake nuclear cruise missile that only flies 22 miles.  

    Say the Americans...
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:30 pm

    dino00 wrote:
    Vladimir79 wrote:The Tu-95 only launched it at 1000km, fact.  Putin's word is butt-kiss with his fake nuclear cruise missile that only flies 22 miles.  

    Say the Americans...

    Actually it was the Russian Defence Ministry...

    Russian strategic Tu-95 missile carriers struck terrorist targets in Syria using Kh-101 cruise missiles from a distance of around 1,000 km, destroying three large stockpiles of weapons and ammunition as well as a terrorist command post on the border of provinces of Hama and Homs, Russia's Defense Ministry said Wednesday.

    http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-07/07/c_136423482.htm
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    dino00

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  dino00 on Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:30 pm

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    dino00 wrote:The application of this missile showed a very high degree of reliability. This is really the most modern weapon, with high-precision and high-power, and a decent range of 4,500 kilometers," Putin told a meeting of the Commission on Military Technical Cooperation of Russia with Foreign States, according to a transcript posted on the Kremlin's website.

    Putin word yes sir

    Just because Putin says something that doesn't make it true, Things need to be backed up with facts not "He said,  she said".

    ``He`` is the president...should deserve some credibility.
    We don`t have proofs to the contrary...by your standard we can`t talk about almost any weapon.
    Putin Said it has 4500km range when alot of information, was that the missile had an even greater range.
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:38 pm

    It was only demonstrated at 1000km range, so we can assume it only has a slightly greater range which means all Tu-95 all vulnerable to counter attack and need immediate withdrawal. The president's word means spit when he revealed all of his fake weapons that will never exist.
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    dino00

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  dino00 on Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:42 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    dino00 wrote:
    Vladimir79 wrote:The Tu-95 only launched it at 1000km, fact.  Putin's word is butt-kiss with his fake nuclear cruise missile that only flies 22 miles.  

    Say the Americans...

    Actually it was the Russian Defence Ministry...

    Russian strategic Tu-95 missile carriers struck terrorist targets in Syria using Kh-101 cruise missiles from a distance of around 1,000 km, destroying three large stockpiles of weapons and ammunition as well as a terrorist command post on the border of provinces of Hama and Homs, Russia's Defense Ministry said Wednesday.

    http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-07/07/c_136423482.htm

    Putin word:

    http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/54993

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    eehnie

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  eehnie on Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:45 pm

    Isos wrote:
    Vladimir79 wrote:If we are going to keep the strategic aviation we need a replacement.  The Tu-95 was a beast of its day but I am almost embarrassed that we still fly it.  At least we should have built more Tu-160 to replace those until a new generation could be conceived.  If we are not building more Tu-160 we need something immediately or strategic aviation could be lost.

    For launching cruise missile with a range of 5000km you don't need anything new. Tu-95 is more than enough.

    Answering to both.

    If Russia is using Tu-95/142 is because the aircraft had and has still a mechanical reseve that allow it. Obviously this mechanical reserve will be finished despite the large production of aircraft, and very likely will be finished before in the case of the Tu-95 variants than in the case of the Tu-142 variants, just because Russia decided it this way.

    If Russia is ordering new big strategic bombers is because otherwise its numbers would begin to decline under the fleet that Russia wants to have. If Russia ordered not them until now is because it was not necessary, thanks to the legacy of the Soviet Union. To note that if the Tu-22 modernized is not being ordered still, is because the mechanical reserve of this aircraft still allows to keep its numbers longer.

    Now the orders begin in the refered to the big strategic bombers, and having a need of producing new big strategic bombers, Russia selected the return to the production of the Tu-160 over the return to production of the Tu-95/142. There are reasons for it. Obviously the comment of Isos is totally wrong.

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    Vladimir79

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:46 pm

    dino00 wrote:

    Putin word:

    http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/54993


    The fact he said it is not in question, are you following this or just knee-jerk reactions?
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    dino00

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  dino00 on Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:53 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:It was only demonstrated at 1000km range, so we can assume it only has a slightly greater range which means all Tu-95 all vulnerable to counter attack and need immediate withdrawal.  The president's word means spit when he revealed all of his fake weapons that will never exist.

    So Kalibr dont have 2500km range either?...

    Do you realy think a air launched Cruise missile introduced in 2011 by Russia only have a ``slightly`` greater range than 1000km Suspect
    That does not make sense what about kh55/555???
    Even the Chinese have air launched Cruise missile with greater range than that but Russia somehow not?
    All the weapons he talked about exist in different stages of development. The pentagon didn`t deny that.
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    kvs

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  kvs on Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:53 pm

    Typical "Russian" response to Russian innovations: "ours is trash, the west's is Godly magic".

    The only knee jerk assertions I see here is the BS claim about 22 miles range. You lost all
    credibility with this ludicrous claim. You clearly have no understanding of the physics. Even
    a primitive steam propeller system would have thousands of miles of range and higher.
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    kvs

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  kvs on Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:54 pm

    dino00 wrote:
    Vladimir79 wrote:It was only demonstrated at 1000km range, so we can assume it only has a slightly greater range which means all Tu-95 all vulnerable to counter attack and need immediate withdrawal.  The president's word means spit when he revealed all of his fake weapons that will never exist.

    So Kalibr dont have 2500km range either?...

    Do you realy think a air launched Cruise missile introduced in 2011 by Russia only have a ``slightly`` greater range than 1000km Suspect
    That does not make sense what about kh55/555???
    Even the Chinese have air launched Cruise missile with greater range than that but Russia somehow not?
    All the weapons he talked about exist in different stages of development. The pentagon didn`t deny that.

    I think it is pointless to argue. I smell pro-NATO liberasty on this board.
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    dino00

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  dino00 on Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:01 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    dino00 wrote:

    Putin word:

    http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/54993


    The fact he said it is not in question, are you following this or just knee-jerk reactions?

    I have respect for every single person and opinion, i dont know what that expression means, and will not look it up...

    Vladimir 79 it was in question you Said it was the defense minister, but the point isnt important.

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    Vladimir79

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:04 pm

    dino00 wrote:
    Vladimir79 wrote:It was only demonstrated at 1000km range, so we can assume it only has a slightly greater range which means all Tu-95 all vulnerable to counter attack and need immediate withdrawal.  The president's word means spit when he revealed all of his fake weapons that will never exist.

    So Kalibr dont have 2500km range either?...

    Do you realy think a air launched Cruise missile introduced in 2011 by Russia only have a ``slightly`` greater range than 1000km Suspect
    That does not make sense what about kh55/555???
    Even the Chinese have air launched Cruise missile with greater range than that but Russia somehow not?
    All the weapons he talked about exist in different stages of development. The pentagon didn`t deny that.

    Kalibr has been demonstrated from the Caspian Sea into Syria which is 1000 miles away, so we know it can go a bit further than that.  I think Putin is making up for the weakness of the arms industry by making paper tiger claims much like Chinese media makes about itself and I really hate it as you could get far more reliable information just a few years ago.

    We have not had any great technological advance in microturbofans that leap frogged us ahead of the Americans and French for range.
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    dino00

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  dino00 on Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:08 pm

    kvs wrote:Typical "Russian" response to Russian innovations: "ours is trash, the west's is Godly magic".

    The only knee jerk assertions I see here is the BS claim about 22 miles range.   You lost all
    credibility with this ludicrous claim.   You clearly have no understanding of the physics.   Even
    a primitive steam propeller system would have thousands of miles of range and higher.

    The 22 miles range is from the nuclear powered missile it could be truth
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    dino00

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  dino00 on Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:14 pm

    .[/quoteWe have not had any great technological advance in microturbofans that leap frogged us ahead of the Americans and French for range.[/quote]

    Americans have alcm with more than 3500km range
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    Vladimir79

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    Re: PAK-DA: News

    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:14 pm

    kvs wrote:Typical "Russian" response to Russian innovations: "ours is trash, the west's is Godly magic".

    The only knee jerk assertions I see here is the BS claim about 22 miles range.   You lost all
    credibility with this ludicrous claim.   You clearly have no understanding of the physics.   Even
    a primitive steam propeller system would have thousands of miles of range and higher.

    The only evidence is of a 2 minute flight that went 22 miles. If you have any evidence of longer test flights you are free to post. If you continue to run attacks against my intelligence you will find your stay here brief.

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