Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Isos
    Isos

    Posts : 3277
    Points : 3275
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 30 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  Isos on Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:51 am

    Smocky Grigorovitch. Hope its not the engines but fuel that sucks.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Capt_Navy/status/1117721658075295744
    MiamiMachineShop
    MiamiMachineShop

    Posts : 115
    Points : 119
    Join date : 2019-04-09

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 30 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  MiamiMachineShop on Tue May 07, 2019 7:16 pm

    https://news.rambler.ru/army/42139320-fregat-chernomorskogo-flota-admiral-grigorovich-sovershit-delovoy-zahod-v-port-limassol/

    Admiral Grigorivich will make port call to Limassol in next days. It has performed a range of tasks in the Black Sea, a reliable ship with adequate capabilities. M90FRU would be overkill, but I wonder how fast the powerplant meant for Gorshkov could get this baby. Currently, 30 knots with DT-59 (UGT15000R) Zorya engines. With M90FRU maybe speeds of up to 35-37 knots?!?!?
    Rodion_Romanovic
    Rodion_Romanovic

    Posts : 229
    Points : 231
    Join date : 2015-12-30

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 30 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  Rodion_Romanovic on Tue May 07, 2019 7:41 pm

    MiamiMachineShop wrote:https://news.rambler.ru/army/42139320-fregat-chernomorskogo-flota-admiral-grigorovich-sovershit-delovoy-zahod-v-port-limassol/

    Admiral Grigorivich will make port call to Limassol in next days. It has performed a range of tasks in the Black Sea, a reliable ship with adequate capabilities. M90FRU would be overkill, but I wonder how fast the powerplant meant for Gorshkov could get this baby. Currently, 30 knots with DT-59 (UGT15000R) Zorya engines. With M90FRU maybe speeds of up to 35-37 knots?!?!?
    even with much older electronics and radars I believe these ships are much more useful than 20380 oversized corvettes.

    however I do not even know if these ships could host the combined diesel and gas turbine power plant meant for gorshkov class without a serious redesign, and in that case, until they have not mastered the serial production of such powerplants, engines for this ships would retard engines for gorshkov class.

    Maybe if the new government of ukraine was less in self destruct mode, and they could get more engines from zorya...

    these ships would also sell like hotcakes in the export market...
    MiamiMachineShop
    MiamiMachineShop

    Posts : 115
    Points : 119
    Join date : 2019-04-09

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 30 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  MiamiMachineShop on Tue May 07, 2019 8:02 pm

    Main propulsion plant of Project 11356 frigates is M7N1, using DS71 (known in Ukraine as UGT6000) as cruising engines, and boosters are DT59 (UGT16000). Efficiency of the latter one is only 30%.

    M90FRU would be paired with M70FRU-2 cruising turbines which are analogues of UGT6000(DS71) cruise turbines of Zorya.

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 30 Image.axd?picture=2011%2F5%2FCOGAG_Talwar


    M90FRU is basically the Russian analogue of UGT 16000(DT-59), and they work in COGAG format as well as CODAG.

    In CODAG(Gorshkov class) they are paired with 10D49 Kolomna Diesel cruise engines.
    I could not find Gorshkov powerplant arrangement, but this is similar, cruising diesels coupled to bigger gearboxes, and M90FR instead of DA91 (this is M55 CODAG)
    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 30 12.M55Rmfcopy

    M70FRU produces 7200 RPM vs 7000 RPM of UGT 6000, temperature output is increased to 506 degrees over 440 degrees for UGT6000. Efficiency is improved by .2%.

    Kolomna 10D49 give Gorshkov 5200SHP in cruise mode. Combined with M90FRU Gorshkov gets to 65,400 SHP

    The DS71(UGT6000) gives 11356 cruising power of 8450SHP. M70FRU-2 offers even more power, This is much better performance than 10D49. With M90FR , 11356 will be faster than 22350. Its speed can approach speeds of 37 knots maybe even faster when the powerplants are ready.

    COGAG > CODAG for speed performance

    CODAG > COGAG for reliability, diesels are workhorses

    No need for Zorya, NPO/UEC will have M90FRU, M70FRU-2, Agregat-DKVP will be new series of MGT. Agregat DKVP will be cruising turbines for LCAC's like Zubr. 11356 will sell like hotcakes when powerplants are ready

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 30 M90FR_gas_turbine_engine_Project_22350_Saturn

    You can see output shaft on M90FR picture, they will couple to input shaft on gearbox which are coupled to prop shaft, and cruising diesels this is for 22350:
    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 30 STnTe4j


    Last edited by MiamiMachineShop on Tue May 07, 2019 10:07 pm; edited 3 times in total
    MiamiMachineShop
    MiamiMachineShop

    Posts : 115
    Points : 119
    Join date : 2019-04-09

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 30 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  MiamiMachineShop on Tue May 07, 2019 9:05 pm

    Isos wrote:Smocky Grigorovitch. Hope its not the engines but fuel that sucks.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Capt_Navy/status/1117721658075295744


    EXHAUST smoke emission from high pressure ratio gas turbine engines currently in service has been reduced largely by attention to fuel air mixing in the combustion chamber. The proportion of produced carbon which can be burned in high temperature regions of the chamber will increase as both combustion maximum and turbine entry temperatures increase.

    Smoke is normal, especially white smoke, the ship looks like its at idle, or switching from LP Turbine to HP turbine, during this process when the ship goes into low idle on DS-71 and switches to DT-59 it will produce smoke due to carbon production in high temperature regions (DS71) which are being powered down and simultaneously DT-59 is powered on.
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 20668
    Points : 21222
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 30 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  GarryB on Wed May 08, 2019 10:33 am

    That level of smoke is pretty mild I would think... I mean compared with some Japanese ships and US super modern boats...

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 30 1000w_10

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 30 Db500510

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 30 Smoky10
    avatar
    hoom

    Posts : 1788
    Points : 1778
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 30 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  hoom on Thu May 09, 2019 4:37 pm

    Perfect silhouette
    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 30 08-7479173-orig-154540939166b08a9bbbc105ca975ded5c04698443
    MiamiMachineShop
    MiamiMachineShop

    Posts : 115
    Points : 119
    Join date : 2019-04-09

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 30 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  MiamiMachineShop on Thu May 09, 2019 8:54 pm

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 30 4320438_original

    Admiral Istomin, Kornilov and Butakov

    https://www.janes.com/article/84129/india-signs-usd950-million-deal-for-two-russian-built-frigates

    They could chicken out and we could see these in baltic fleet maybe?

    attack
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 20668
    Points : 21222
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 30 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  GarryB on Fri May 10, 2019 5:51 am

    Would be better if they used the money to buy bigger versions... even if they take a little longer.
    avatar
    Tingsay

    Posts : 125
    Points : 129
    Join date : 2016-12-09

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 30 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  Tingsay on Fri May 10, 2019 6:01 am

    MiamiMachineShop wrote:Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 30 4320438_original

    Admiral Istomin, Kornilov and Butakov

    https://www.janes.com/article/84129/india-signs-usd950-million-deal-for-two-russian-built-frigates

    They could chicken out and we could see these in baltic fleet maybe?

    attack

    No chance I think.

    India's supposedly better ship, Shivalik class has some major issues (forgot the details) and that is why they are going for Grigorovich.
    Shivalik stopped at just 3 ships without any sanctions like in Grigos.
    avatar
    hoom

    Posts : 1788
    Points : 1778
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 30 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  hoom on Fri May 10, 2019 7:01 am

    They had some kind of major drydock incident & 4th is fubarred from rumors -> suddenly the 11356 order firmed up.

    I still say they should put the effort in to get domestic engine/gearbox going and finish 6* for BSF plus new 6* for Pacific/split appropriately as fleets fill with them/other new ships.
    Maybe another 3* allowing for Latakia too. (but that could be part of the re-balancing as new ships are built)


    Last edited by hoom on Fri May 10, 2019 7:22 am; edited 1 time in total
    Vladimir79
    Vladimir79

    Posts : 2900
    Points : 3778
    Join date : 2009-07-10

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 30 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  Vladimir79 on Fri May 10, 2019 7:18 am

    GarryB wrote:That level of smoke is pretty mild I would think... I mean compared with some Japanese ships and US super modern boats...

    The level of smoke is not the issue, the issue is if it is black as that means unburnt carbon is coming out of the funnels.  In the case of US and Japanese ships it is a case of incompetent engineers that don't monitor the air mixtures.  In the case of older Russian ships it is lack of maintenance that has allowed carbon buildup.  In the case of newer Russian ships it is the same as the US, incompetent engineers.
    avatar
    hoom

    Posts : 1788
    Points : 1778
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 30 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  hoom on Tue May 14, 2019 3:46 pm

    Essen at Istanbul for defense show via reddit.
    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 30 8ww23kkvmxv21
    Interesting that they are apparently starring the missile launchers?!
    avatar
    hoom

    Posts : 1788
    Points : 1778
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 30 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  hoom on Wed May 22, 2019 1:14 pm

    Zorya Mashproject has sent 4* turbines 'to India' https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3650451.html
    In March 2019, four M7N-1E gas-turbine units manufactured by the Nikolaevsk State Scientific-Production Complex “Zorya” - “Mashproekt” (two for each frigate, project 11356), with a customs value $ 18.612 million were exported by sea to India.
    Assumption is that they're going to India via Kaliningrad. (or India -> Kaliningrad -> India)
    avatar
    kumbor

    Posts : 263
    Points : 261
    Join date : 2017-06-09

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 30 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  kumbor on Wed May 22, 2019 3:56 pm

    Isos wrote:Smocky Grigorovitch. Hope its not the engines but fuel that sucks.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Capt_Navy/status/1117721658075295744

    You mean SMOKEY, for SMOCKY is a kind of a WORKERS SUIT?!

    Sponsored content

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 30 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Mon May 27, 2019 12:21 pm