Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    avatar
    hoom

    Posts : 1971
    Points : 1961
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 29 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  hoom on Sun Dec 30, 2018 12:55 pm

    Does any one know or confirm if the new VLS Shtil-1 with the new 9m317M/A has active radar homing ?

    Any more details or any links to it ?

    Also any details on Orekh radar , How it works , is it track while scan , how many targets it can track etc
    Makarov was delayed testing the active homing so presumably at least it has them unless the program failed & was abandoned.
    Surely its mainly just a software upgrade on the ship & new missiles with active seeker/software for the VLS so should be upgradable/ed on the other ships.

    MR-90 is 80s Soviet tech (is on Sovremennys) & definitely the weakpoint with a claimed 50km range vs the 70km of the missile -> need for the active version.
    Apparently its Pulse Doppler, Continuous Wave.
    From recollection either MR-90 or MR-123 has electronic vertical scanning but I forget which, the other has physical within the dome.
    Shtil-1 stats claim 12 targets simultaneously engaged with the 4* MR-90 config -> 3 per MR-90.
    Isos
    Isos

    Posts : 3762
    Points : 3750
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 29 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  Isos on Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:42 pm

    What they need is this with the new ARH 70km range missile.

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 29 8086f510
    avatar
    hoom

    Posts : 1971
    Points : 1961
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 29 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  hoom on Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:33 pm

    And Pantsir-Ms on the sides of the hangar pirat
    Isos
    Isos

    Posts : 3762
    Points : 3750
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 29 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  Isos on Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:24 pm

    hoom wrote:And Pantsir-Ms on the sides of the hangar pirat

    I would put 2 or 3 iskander M with 2000km range on each side of the hangar in special VLS.

    Shtil + ak 630 is enough specially if a gorshkov is near.

    avatar
    hoom

    Posts : 1971
    Points : 1961
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 29 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  hoom on Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:24 am

    Grigorovich gone into repairProject 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 29 02-7146061-broqt94wx2c
    ~1mth repair https://flotprom.ru/2019/%D0%A1%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%BC%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B42/

    Goa shipyard has signed contract for 2* new build 11356 https://bmpd.livejournal.com/3515331.html
    The ships, which will be built with Russian assistance and with partial transfer of technology from Russia, are planned to be transferred to the Indian Navy in June 2026 and December 2026, respectively. The first two frigates of project 11356 of the four ordered for the Indian fleet will be built in Russia.
    ...
    According to the available information, of the two ships planned for construction on GSL of project 11356, one will represent the third unfinished Yantar at the aircraft defense plant, the frigate Admiral Kornilov laid for the Russian Navy(serial number 01362), the body of which will be towed to Goa for completion. Thus, in India, "from scratch" is supposed to build only one ship.

    All four frigates of project 11356 ordered by India will be equipped with their own standard gas turbine main power plants M7H produced by the Nikolaev GP NPKG Zorya - Mashproekt (Ukraine), which will be supplied to the Indian side of Ukroboronprom.
    The-thing-next-door
    The-thing-next-door

    Posts : 571
    Points : 607
    Join date : 2017-09-18
    Location : Soviet Interdimentional Command

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 29 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:19 pm

    I found this picture of Admiral Essen.

    Edit I mistook Redut for 4 cell UKSK

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 29 29-4920501-gznmhfrhkpq
    avatar
    hoom

    Posts : 1971
    Points : 1961
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 29 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  hoom on Thu Mar 07, 2019 12:42 pm

    Nope, its 1*8 UKSK (just ahead of the RBU launcher) and 2*12 smaller VLS for the Shtil-1 SAMs.
    GunshipDemocracy
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 4913
    Points : 4943
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Age : 77
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 29 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:39 am

    hoom wrote: 2*12 smaller VLS for the Shtil-1 SAMs.

    48 Shtil-1?
    avatar
    hoom

    Posts : 1971
    Points : 1961
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 29 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  hoom on Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:30 am

    Maths is hard man angel
    Hole
    Hole

    Posts : 2240
    Points : 2238
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 43
    Location : Merkelland

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 29 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  Hole on Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:38 am

    True. pwnd geek scratch
    GunshipDemocracy
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 4913
    Points : 4943
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Age : 77
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 29 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:18 pm

    hoom wrote:Maths is hard man angel

    2x12 on both sides is 4x12 right ? welcome welcome welcome
    avatar
    hoom

    Posts : 1971
    Points : 1961
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 29 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  hoom on Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:06 am

    2* 12 = 24.
    There are plenty of pics where you can count them if you don't believe it dunno
    GunshipDemocracy
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 4913
    Points : 4943
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Age : 77
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 29 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:55 am

    hoom wrote:2* 12 = 24.
    There are plenty of pics where you can count them if you don't believe it dunno

    sorry misunderstood you. yes sir yes sir yes sir
    GarryB
    GarryB

    Posts : 21756
    Points : 22302
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 29 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  GarryB on Sat Mar 09, 2019 7:55 am

    Well I zoomed in and the launcher bins directly behind the front mounted gun appear to have two sets of 2x8 launchers to me... so 32 missiles.
    The-thing-next-door
    The-thing-next-door

    Posts : 571
    Points : 607
    Join date : 2017-09-18
    Location : Soviet Interdimentional Command

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 29 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:52 am

    The raised section of front deck seems to have a lot of wasted space, about enough to fit in 2 or 3 more UKSK VLS why is this?
    Isos
    Isos

    Posts : 3762
    Points : 3750
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 29 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  Isos on Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:17 am

    GarryB wrote:Well I zoomed in and the launcher bins directly behind the front mounted gun appear to have two sets of 2x8 launchers to me... so 32 missiles.

    Look better the first and last box are not separated in two. They are not launch tubes. Maybe electronics or reinforcement of the structure to hold the vls.

    The raised section of front deck seems to have a lot of wasted space, about enough to fit in 2 or 3 more UKSK VLS why is this?

    There is the reload system for the rbu inside so no space.
    GunshipDemocracy
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 4913
    Points : 4943
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Age : 77
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 29 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:19 am

    @GB

    Looks like 2 rows or 2x6

    The-thing-next-door wrote:The raised section of front deck seems to have a lot of wasted space, about enough to fit in 2 or 3 more UKSK VLS why is this?

    cost savings?
    Hole
    Hole

    Posts : 2240
    Points : 2238
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 43
    Location : Merkelland

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 29 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  Hole on Sat Mar 09, 2019 11:41 am

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 29 010110
    Count again.

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 29 000614
    Model with three rows instead of two.

    avatar
    hoom

    Posts : 1971
    Points : 1961
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 29 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  hoom on Sat Mar 09, 2019 4:06 pm

    We've discussed this before...

    The original show model had 3*12 but they dropped it to 2* later.
    The Talwars have 24* in the carousel for the arm launcher.
    It really does look like there should be room for 2*8 UKSK modules.

    Some ppl at Balancer say its a weight thing, either: overall need to reduce weight -> 24* Shtil-1 & AK-630 rather than Kashtan/Palash.
    or a fore/aft weight thing due to no Kashtan/Palash.
    Could also be just a cost saving thing since 11356 were supposed to be a stopgap quick-build.


    A theoretical fully kitted out 11356 with 32* Shtil-1, 16* UKSK & 2* Kashtan/Palash/Pantsir-M would be outright impressive but also a lot more expensive & quite a bit heavier -> slower with same power plant.
    The-thing-next-door
    The-thing-next-door

    Posts : 571
    Points : 607
    Join date : 2017-09-18
    Location : Soviet Interdimentional Command

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 29 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  The-thing-next-door on Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:59 pm

    Well not as expensive as 2 and its not expected to go on long cruises so speed is't an issue.
    avatar
    DerWolf

    Posts : 68
    Points : 68
    Join date : 2015-12-06

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 29 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  DerWolf on Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:12 pm

    Why these frigate have so few Calibr only 8? Cant they find more space for some extra more of them?
    verkhoturye51
    verkhoturye51

    Posts : 449
    Points : 445
    Join date : 2018-03-02

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 29 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  verkhoturye51 on Sat Mar 09, 2019 10:54 pm

    Why these frigate have so few Calibr only 8? Cant they find more space for some extra more of them?

    They're a follow-up on Burevestnik class, which had 4 tubes. Frigates are general ships and not specialised for e.g. anti-surface warfare, like destroyers and corvettes. More anti-surface tubes means less space for anti-air and anti-sub weapons.
    avatar
    hoom

    Posts : 1971
    Points : 1961
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 29 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  hoom on Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:41 am

    It is only 4K ton fully loaded.
    Its all well & good talking up more UKSK, more SAMs etc but its actually got very powerful armament for 4K ton.

    In that weight range you get a bunch of much weaker armed '80s Western frigates like OHP, Kortenaer, only a couple of more recent types like Type 054A & Formidable with more SAMs but lacking the high-power ASM/Cruise missiles.

    Even when you go up 50% displacement to the 6K ton modern euro-frigates several still lack in ways compared to 11356.
    avatar
    hoom

    Posts : 1971
    Points : 1961
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 29 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  hoom on Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:02 am

    Interesting gif via Reddit from the other day when Essen on its way home followed a Burke through the Bosphorus on its way to do some imperial flag waving.
    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 29 HVmvdXL
    As far as I've seen it was just random timing rather than intentional on either part but we get this interesting size comparison out of it.
    Length wise there is less between them than I'd expected given the displacement difference but the Burke is 1/3 wider 20m vs 15.5 (Wiki numbers) and twice as deep 9.3m vs 4.2.
    avatar
    hoom

    Posts : 1971
    Points : 1961
    Join date : 2016-05-06

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 29 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  hoom on Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:49 am

    Essen captain got fined ~US$4,000 for the infamous docking incident https://vpk.name/news/268265_vinovnyii_v_avarii_admirala_essena_rasplatitsya_mesyachnyim_dovolstviem.html

    Side point: a crew-member fell from the mast/superstructure of Grigorovich back when it was in drydock.
    https://flot.com/2019/%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%88%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%8F28/

    Sponsored content

    Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich - Page 29 Empty Re: Project 11356: Admiral Grigorovich

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Thu Sep 19, 2019 6:10 pm