Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


    Russia and Turkey

    Share
    avatar
    eehnie

    Posts : 1307
    Points : 1332
    Join date : 2015-05-13

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  eehnie on Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:48 am

    miketheterrible wrote:
    AlfaT8 wrote:The F, what is China thinking, right now Turkey is a frickin time bomb with a broken timer (visually), nobody knows when it's gonna blow.

    Turkey has been mentioning in last couple of weeks that they want to move out from trying to join EU and join the SCO with Russia and China (Erdogan specifically mentioned the two countries) because it knows just as well as the rest of us that the EU is a sinking ship.

    Turkey said nothing about the NATO which is the key part in the refered to the military alliances.

    The EU will not cry by the absence of Turkey, that for sure. You can have some surprise from the EU.
    avatar
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 1117
    Points : 1117
    Join date : 2016-11-06

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Nov 24, 2016 1:06 am

    Maybe so but SCO is economic, not military for the most part. Mind you, they do have the occasional exercises between each other. Makes it good for both sides (Russia/China and Turkey) to keep in contact and learn each other. In case, Turkey may view that NATO isn't in their best interests overall.
    avatar
    eehnie

    Posts : 1307
    Points : 1332
    Join date : 2015-05-13

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  eehnie on Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:51 am

    The SCO is explicit, no foreign military bases in the member countries. Foreign in the sense of military bases of countries that are not SCO members. This is why the US bases in Uzbekistan and more recently in Kyrgyzstan have been closed.

    Is Turkey ready to do the same? Far from true.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16315
    Points : 16946
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  GarryB on Thu Nov 24, 2016 9:22 am

    The SCO is explicit, no foreign military bases in the member countries. Foreign in the sense of military bases of countries that are not SCO members. This is why the US bases in Uzbekistan and more recently in Kyrgyzstan have been closed.

    Is Turkey ready to do the same? Far from true.

    Interesting point... that would make it even more attractive to get Turkey into SCO... Smile if possible...

    A good relationship with Syria and Iran and Russia and Turkey would not really need US airbases on their territory to "save" them...


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 1502
    Points : 1542
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:44 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    The SCO is explicit, no foreign military bases in the member countries. Foreign in the sense of military bases of countries that are not SCO members. This is why the US bases in Uzbekistan and more recently in Kyrgyzstan have been closed.

    Is Turkey ready to do the same? Far from true.

    Interesting point... that would make it even more attractive to get Turkey into SCO... Smile if possible...

    A good relationship with Syria and Iran and Russia and Turkey would not really need US airbases on their territory to "save" them...

    That´s why this would be a geopolitical earthquake. Can you imagine Turkey goes to side of Russo-Chinese alliance? I can imgine those faces of EU/US elites. Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Twisted Evil
    avatar
    Sinan

    Posts : 23
    Points : 25
    Join date : 2016-11-23
    Location : Ankara / Turkey

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  Sinan on Thu Nov 24, 2016 9:31 pm

    Turkey ending the negotiations with EU, does means that we will get out of the NATO.

    NATO is the most powerful military alliance by far, and we are getting ToT, equipment from NATO countries. Why should we want out ?

    Let me what is going to happen. After the US sponsored coup. We kind of understood that. The power we get close by intends to control us and the power we get away from intends to harm us. So, i think, we will stay at equal distance to all great powers.
    avatar
    miketheterrible

    Posts : 1117
    Points : 1117
    Join date : 2016-11-06

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Nov 24, 2016 9:44 pm

    Sinan wrote:Turkey ending the negotiations with EU, does means that we will get out of the NATO.

    NATO is the most powerful military alliance by far, and we are getting ToT, equipment from NATO countries. Why should we want out ?

    Let me what is going to happen. After the US sponsored coup. We kind of understood that. The power we get close by intends to control us and the power we get away from intends to harm us. So, i think, we will stay at equal distance to all great powers.

    Which for any country, is the smart choice. Play all sides really. But take care of your own people. You know the US does not like countries sitting on two chairs.
    avatar
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 1502
    Points : 1542
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Nov 24, 2016 9:51 pm

    Sinan wrote:Turkey ending the negotiations with EU, does means that we will get out of the NATO.

    NATO is the most powerful military alliance by far, and we are getting ToT, equipment from NATO countries. Why should we want out ?

    Let me what is going to happen. After the US sponsored coup. We kind of understood that. The power we get close by intends to control us and the power we get away from intends to harm us. So, i think, we will stay at equal distance to all great powers.

    Youre just too small to be independent pole in mulitpolar world I am afraid. Either US or EU or Russia/China side.

    BTW I am not sure how NATO is stronkest? w/o US is no match to Russia alone.
    avatar
    GarryB

    Posts : 16315
    Points : 16946
    Join date : 2010-03-30
    Location : New Zealand

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  GarryB on Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:05 pm

    Note the about face of the head of NATO that stolten guy or whatever his name is.

    Previously his response to "Russian aggression" has been cutting off dialog and sanctions to punish Russia for its aggressive moves in the Ukraine... like aide convoys and telling Kiev off for shelling their own people...

    Now he suggests Russia is not going anywhere and is a neighbour so we need to talk... I very much doubt this would be what he said if Hilary had won...

    Big powers are big powers and can be arrogant and controlling and only interested in themselves... but I don't think Putins Russia would treat Turkey the way the Europeans do... you can be in our war club but you can't be in our economics club because you are not good enough... your manners are not right yet...

    If Turkey was located further away from Russian borders I doubt they would even let them in NATO...


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
    avatar
    Militarov

    Posts : 5533
    Points : 5578
    Join date : 2015-09-02
    Location : Serbia

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  Militarov on Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:06 pm

    Sinan wrote:Turkey ending the negotiations with EU, does means that we will get out of the NATO.

    NATO is the most powerful military alliance by far, and we are getting ToT, equipment from NATO countries. Why should we want out ?

    Let me what is going to happen. After the US sponsored coup. We kind of understood that. The power we get close by intends to control us and the power we get away from intends to harm us. So, i think, we will stay at equal distance to all great powers.

    Turkey is mostly getting non crucial ToT, rest is coming either in kits or on component base from abroad. First exception partially would be this F-35 lemon where you get to produce certain "consumables" as third tier partner in the project.

    Also... "US sponsored coup"... really. If they really wanted to make a coup Erdogans head would be long ago on some spike on top of Hagia Sophia.
    avatar
    Sinan

    Posts : 23
    Points : 25
    Join date : 2016-11-23
    Location : Ankara / Turkey

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  Sinan on Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:01 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Youre just too small to be independent pole in mulitpolar world I am afraid. Either US or EU or Russia/China side.
    We shall see about that. Negotiations with EU will fall apart when we re-institute capital punishment. That will be the first step.

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:BTW I am not sure how NATO is stronkest? w/o US is no match to Russia alone.
    Yeah, "without US", yet US is still part of NATO.
    avatar
    Sinan

    Posts : 23
    Points : 25
    Join date : 2016-11-23
    Location : Ankara / Turkey

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  Sinan on Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:10 pm

    GarryB wrote:

    Big powers are big powers and can be arrogant and controlling and only interested in themselves... but I don't think Putins Russia would treat Turkey the way the Europeans do... you can be in our war club but you can't be in our economics club because you are not good enough... your manners are not right yet...

    We will never leave NATO, forget about that. About economy...check the GDP/Capita for the both countries.

    GarryB wrote:If Turkey was located further away from Russian borders I doubt they would even let them in NATO...
    Agreed.
    avatar
    Sinan

    Posts : 23
    Points : 25
    Join date : 2016-11-23
    Location : Ankara / Turkey

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  Sinan on Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:13 pm

    Militarov wrote:

    Turkey is mostly getting non crucial ToT, rest is coming either in kits or on component base from abroad. First exception partially would be this F-35 lemon where you get to produce certain "consumables" as third tier partner in the project.
    Altay Tank, T-129 Attack Helikopter, U-214 TN subs, Anadolu LHD are just some examples.

    About F-35, we produce the center fuselage, and some criticical parts for the F-135 engine.

    Militarov wrote:Also... "US sponsored coup"... really. If they really wanted to make a coup Erdogans head would be long ago on some spike on top of Hagia Sophia.
    Yeap, really.
    avatar
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 1502
    Points : 1542
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:20 pm

    Sinan wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Youre just too small to be independent pole in mulitpolar world I am afraid. Either US or EU or Russia/China side.
    We shall see about that. Negotiations with EU will fall apart when we re-institute capital punishment. That will be the first step.

    Negotiations? They already stopped - check EP today´s news.  I hardly can see homosexual  marriages propaganda thriving in Turkey anyway Smile

    Turkey was needed by West to close Bosporus and place weapons against USSR. Not really as a partner.


    Sinan wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:BTW I am not sure how NATO is stronkest? w/o US is no match to Russia alone.
    Yeah, "without US", yet US is still part of NATO.

    Still not stronger then Russia otherwise NATO criminal underworld  would already won the war they´re waging. Russia´s nukes is enough to change landscape of all NATO members together.


    Last edited by GunshipDemocracy on Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
    avatar
    GunshipDemocracy

    Posts : 1502
    Points : 1542
    Join date : 2015-05-17
    Location : fishin on Stalin´s Strait between Mexico and Canada

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  GunshipDemocracy on Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:25 pm

    Militarov wrote: Also... "US sponsored coup"... really. If they really wanted to make a coup Erdogans head would be long ago on some spike on top of Hagia Sophia.

    Meh you overestimate US powers, besides Russia warned (and according to Iran news hosted) Erdogan about the coup.


    Otherwise Eagle Claw were end up in US commando bodies charcoaled in Iran´s desert too? or color revolution in Tein An Men in 89 did change govt in china?



    avatar
    Militarov

    Posts : 5533
    Points : 5578
    Join date : 2015-09-02
    Location : Serbia

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  Militarov on Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:42 pm

    Sinan wrote:
    Militarov wrote:

    Turkey is mostly getting non crucial ToT, rest is coming either in kits or on component base from abroad. First exception partially would be this F-35 lemon where you get to produce certain "consumables" as third tier partner in the project.
    Altay Tank, T-129 Attack Helikopter, U-214 TN subs, Anadolu LHD are just some examples.

    About F-35, we produce the center fuselage, and some criticical parts for the F-135 engine.

    Militarov wrote:Also... "US sponsored coup"... really. If they really wanted to make a coup Erdogans head would be long ago on some spike on top of Hagia Sophia.
    Yeap, really.

    Altay? What Altay has to do with US and NATO? Its off the shelf stuff anyone can buy.

    You never recieved any U-214 ToT all mission sensitive equipment was provided not produced in Turkey.

    T-129 is Italian project, and not very good one for that matter, again nothing that someone cant procure without being in NATO. Anadolu LHD again commercial procurement...

    You produce it by the materials provided by someone else, basically you are cheap workforce, know-how is far out of your reach, cant you research abit into what "third tier partner" in F-35 project has insight into?

    And... no. Stop imagining some type of big importance of Turkey on global scale. You are spot on the map. If Americans wanted Erdogan somewhere else, he would be, they have plenttyy of experience in these things.
    avatar
    Militarov

    Posts : 5533
    Points : 5578
    Join date : 2015-09-02
    Location : Serbia

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  Militarov on Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:44 pm

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Militarov wrote: Also... "US sponsored coup"... really. If they really wanted to make a coup Erdogans head would be long ago on some spike on top of Hagia Sophia.

    Meh you overestimate US powers, besides Russia warned (and according to Iran news hosted) Erdogan about the coup.


    Otherwise Eagle Claw were end  up in US commando bodies charcoaled in Iran´s desert too? or color revolution in Tein An Men in 89 did change govt in china?




    "Iran media" - Totally legit source, please...

    Then Jesus Christ himself landed and blessed Erdogan and called him "my brother".
    avatar
    eehnie

    Posts : 1307
    Points : 1332
    Join date : 2015-05-13

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  eehnie on Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:52 pm

    GarryB wrote:Note the about face of the head of NATO that stolten guy or whatever his name is.

    Previously his response to "Russian aggression" has been cutting off dialog and sanctions to punish Russia for its aggressive moves in the Ukraine... like aide convoys and telling Kiev off for shelling their own people...

    Now he suggests Russia is not going anywhere and is a neighbour so we need to talk... I very much doubt this would be what he said if Hilary had won...

    Big powers are big powers and can be arrogant and controlling and only interested in themselves... but I don't think Putins Russia would treat Turkey the way the Europeans do... you can be in our war club but you can't be in our economics club because you are not good enough... your manners are not right yet...

    If Turkey was located further away from Russian borders I doubt they would even let them in NATO...

    You have very low understanding of Europe.
    avatar
    Sinan

    Posts : 23
    Points : 25
    Join date : 2016-11-23
    Location : Ankara / Turkey

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  Sinan on Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:11 am

    We bought Altay off the shelf....really ? I thought this was a defense forum not a kindergarden. I have nor time neither will to refute all these false claims. Just educate yourself.
    avatar
    Militarov

    Posts : 5533
    Points : 5578
    Join date : 2015-09-02
    Location : Serbia

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  Militarov on Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:39 am

    Sinan wrote:We bought Altay off the shelf....really ? I thought this was a defense forum not a kindergarden. I have nor time neither will to refute all these false claims. Just educate yourself.

    All foreign components you obtained for the project are off the shelf solutions, no ToT whatsoever except South Korean ToT which has nothing to do with NATO or US.
    avatar
    Sinan

    Posts : 23
    Points : 25
    Join date : 2016-11-23
    Location : Ankara / Turkey

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  Sinan on Fri Nov 25, 2016 6:45 am

    Militarov wrote:
    Sinan wrote:We bought Altay off the shelf....really ? I thought this was a defense forum not a kindergarden. I have nor time neither will to refute all these false claims. Just educate yourself.

    All foreign components you obtained for the project are off the shelf solutions, no ToT whatsoever except South Korean ToT which has nothing to do with NATO or US.

    Gotta love people whom talks about knowledge. From of the shelf it turned into "foreign components you obtained"

    Altay uses MTU 1500 hp engine. Which is going to be replaced by indigenous Tumosan 1800 hp engine after the 2 nd batch. Apart from that which component are we buying ?

    If you are gonna claim something at least back your claims with sources.
    avatar
    Sinan

    Posts : 23
    Points : 25
    Join date : 2016-11-23
    Location : Ankara / Turkey

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  Sinan on Fri Nov 25, 2016 6:48 am

    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Sinan wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:
    Youre just too small to be independent pole in mulitpolar world I am afraid. Either US or EU or Russia/China side.
    We shall see about that. Negotiations with EU will fall apart when we re-institute capital punishment. That will be the first step.

    Negotiations? They already stopped - check EP today´s news.  I hardly can see homosexual  marriages propaganda thriving in Turkey anyway Smile

    Turkey was needed by West to close Bosporus and place weapons against USSR. Not really as a partner.


    Sinan wrote:
    GunshipDemocracy wrote:BTW I am not sure how NATO is stronkest? w/o US is no match to Russia alone.
    Yeah, "without US", yet US is still part of NATO.

    Still not stronger then Russia otherwise NATO criminal underworld  would already won the war they´re waging. Russia´s nukes is enough to change landscape of all NATO members together.

    Stopped ? EP is not a decision making mechanism. You might wanna read a few articles about that.
    avatar
    Militarov

    Posts : 5533
    Points : 5578
    Join date : 2015-09-02
    Location : Serbia

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  Militarov on Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:16 pm

    Sinan wrote:
    Militarov wrote:
    Sinan wrote:We bought Altay off the shelf....really ? I thought this was a defense forum not a kindergarden. I have nor time neither will to refute all these false claims. Just educate yourself.

    All foreign components you obtained for the project are off the shelf solutions, no ToT whatsoever except South Korean ToT which has nothing to do with NATO or US.

    Gotta love people whom talks about knowledge. From of the shelf it turned into "foreign components you obtained"

    Altay uses MTU 1500 hp engine. Which is going to be replaced by indigenous Tumosan 1800 hp engine after the 2 nd batch. Apart from that which component are we buying ?

    If you are gonna claim something at least back your claims with sources.

    I never wrote that Altay is "of the shelf" i said all foreign components in it are bought and not procured via any kind of ToT, and that Altay has nothing to do with ToT, NATO, US or anything whatsoever of a kind for that matter. Stop placing shit in my mouth that i did not say.

    And what doesexactly Tumosan has to do with any ToT? Are you having breakdowns...?

    Let me remind what YOU said:

    "Altay Tank, T-129 Attack Helikopter, U-214 TN subs, Anadolu LHD are just some examples."
    avatar
    Sinan

    Posts : 23
    Points : 25
    Join date : 2016-11-23
    Location : Ankara / Turkey

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  Sinan on Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:23 pm

    Militarov wrote:

    I never wrote that Altay is "of the shelf" i said all foreign components in it are bought and not procured via any kind of ToT, and that Altay has nothing to do with ToT, NATO, US or anything whatsoever of a kind for that matter. Stop placing shit in my mouth that i did not say.

    And what doesexactly Tumosan has to do with any ToT? Are you having breakdowns...?

    Let me remind what YOU said:

    "Altay Tank, T-129 Attack Helikopter, U-214 TN subs, Anadolu LHD are just some examples."

    Mate, just calm down and just tell me which foreign components Altay uses apart from it's engine. Very easy, very simple question. I mean just give me the name of the sub-system.
    avatar
    Militarov

    Posts : 5533
    Points : 5578
    Join date : 2015-09-02
    Location : Serbia

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  Militarov on Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:25 pm

    Sinan wrote:
    Militarov wrote:

    I never wrote that Altay is "of the shelf" i said all foreign components in it are bought and not procured via any kind of ToT, and that Altay has nothing to do with ToT, NATO, US or anything whatsoever of a kind for that matter. Stop placing shit in my mouth that i did not say.

    And what doesexactly Tumosan has to do with any ToT? Are you having breakdowns...?

    Let me remind what YOU said:

    "Altay Tank, T-129 Attack Helikopter, U-214 TN subs, Anadolu LHD are just some examples."

    Mate, just calm down and just tell me which foreign components Altay uses apart from it's engine. Very easy, very simple question. I mean just give me the name of the sub-system.

    Are you for real?

    YOU SAID its using foreign components via ToT!

    Are you retarded or trolling?

    Sponsored content

    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:22 am