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    Russia and Turkey

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    Sinan

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    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  Sinan on Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:30 pm

    [quote="Militarov"]
    Sinan wrote:

    Are you for real?

    YOU SAID its using foreign components via ToT!

    Are you retarded or trolling?

    ToT means Transfer of Technology. You obtain the technology and built it yourself.

    It's not " i said all foreign components in it are bought ".

    Components are not bought of the shelf, components are being produced in Turkey with all intellectual rights belonging to Turkey.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  Militarov on Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:33 pm

    Sinan wrote:
    Militarov wrote:

    I never wrote that Altay is "of the shelf" i said all foreign components in it are bought and not procured via any kind of ToT, and that Altay has nothing to do with ToT, NATO, US or anything whatsoever of a kind for that matter. Stop placing shit in my mouth that i did not say.

    And what doesexactly Tumosan has to do with any ToT? Are you having breakdowns...?

    Let me remind what YOU said:

    "Altay Tank, T-129 Attack Helikopter, U-214 TN subs, Anadolu LHD are just some examples."

    Mate, just calm down and just tell me which foreign components Altay uses apart from it's engine. Very easy, very simple question. I mean just give me the name of the sub-system.

    You said how you are getting "ToT" because you are in NATO. That is not true whatsoever, all the ToT you got for Altay is commercially available to literally anyone, in NATO or not. Can you now please stop being butthurt uneducated Turkish cunt and move to The Mess so you can discuss with them there how big, important and mighty Turkey is?

    And dont call me mate, i am not your mate.
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    Sinan

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    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  Sinan on Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:38 pm

    Militarov wrote:

    You said how you are getting "ToT" because you are in NATO. That is not true whatsoever, all the ToT you got for Altay is commercially available to literally anyone, in NATO or not.

    South Korea is under heavy US influence. No other non-NATO countries can obtain any ToT from south korea without the approval of US.

    Military related stuff is not commercially available to everyone. Do you think that ToT of S-400 is commercially available to anyone ?


    Militarov wrote: Can you now please stop being butthurt uneducated Turkish cunt and move to The Mess so you can discuss with them there how big, important and mighty Turkey is?

    And dont call me mate, i am not your mate.

    Thanks for showing your quality. I can now put you into my ignore list.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  Militarov on Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:45 pm

    Sinan wrote:
    Militarov wrote:

    You said how you are getting "ToT" because you are in NATO. That is not true whatsoever, all the ToT you got for Altay is commercially available to literally anyone, in NATO or not.

    South Korea is under heavy US influence. No other non-NATO countries can obtain any ToT from south korea without the approval of US.

    Military related stuff is not commercially available to everyone. Do you think that ToT of S-400 is commercially available to anyone ?


    Militarov wrote: Can you now please stop being butthurt uneducated Turkish cunt and move to The Mess so you can discuss with them there how big, important and mighty Turkey is?

    And dont call me mate, i am not your mate.

    Thanks for showing your quality. I can now put you into my ignore list.

    Mighty Turkey gets everything, Turks breed dragons for Sultan Erdogan. Turks landed first on the Moon too.  All thanks to being in NATO.

    Dont bother, already done.

    JohninMK

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    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  JohninMK on Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:24 pm

    What is it about Turks that far too frequently one turns up here and creates a shitstorm of angst?

    Here we have a brand new, two days here one, about which we know SFA stirring up those who have been here much longer with proven value to the site, poking them with a sharp stick, for no good reason and OT at that.
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    Sinan

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    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  Sinan on Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:39 pm

    JohninMK wrote:What is it about Turks that far too frequently one turns up here and creates a shitstorm of angst?

    Here we have a brand new, two days here one, about which we know SFA stirring up those who have been here much longer with proven value to the site, poking them with a sharp stick, for no good reason and OT at that.

    Well, i just said that we are obtaining ToT because of NATO and your friend gone haywire.

    I'm just interested in this site for the spot on evaluations about the 15 July coup and Russian point of view regarding Turkey-Russia relations. But be sure that if discussions turn in to low level quarrels without any intellectualism, there will be no reason for me to take part.
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  Militarov on Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:02 pm

    JohninMK wrote:What is it about Turks that far too frequently one turns up here and creates a shitstorm of angst?

    Here we have a brand new, two days here one, about which we know SFA stirring up those who have been here much longer with proven value to the site, poking them with a sharp stick, for no good reason and OT at that.

    Sometimes it feels like its all the same guy coming back over and over to post crap and insult intelligence.
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    Airman

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    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  Airman on Fri Nov 25, 2016 4:16 pm

    Hyundai Rotem taught us how to build a tank. Hyundai Rotem gave us the technology needed to build a tank. We produced Altay at the request of the Turkish Armed Forces.

    http://www.ssm.gov.tr/home/projects/Sayfalar/proje.aspx?projeID=177

    Otokar Automotive and Defense Industry (Main Contractor)
    ASELSAN (Tank Fire Control System, Tank Command Control Communication and Information System, Active Protection System)
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    eehnie

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    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  eehnie on Sat Nov 26, 2016 1:21 am

    The Ottoman wrote:PM advisor says Turkey does not view EU membership as priority anymore


    October 12, 14:53 UTC+3  

    According to Senior Advisor to the Turkish Prime Minister Mehmet Akarca, after the recent events in Turkey the European direction has lost popularity

    ANKARA, October 12. /TASS/. Turkey does not intend to call off the EU membership bid but due the dire state of the European economy, the EU accession may seem unreasonable, Senior Advisor to the Turkish Prime Minister Mehmet Akarca told Russian journalists on Wednesday.

    "Becoming an EU member or building a closer relationship with the EU is not a priority task for Turkey at the moment," he said. "The Turkish people have experienced great upheavals lately. We now know who our true friend and partner is, and who prefers to safeguard their own interests."

    According to Akarca, after the recent events in Turkey, the European direction has lost popularity, however "it would be an overly politicized and too emotional decision to refuse to cooperate with the European Union."

    "Politics is a sphere of pragmatic thinking," he noted. "For that reason and taking into account the dire state of the European economy, the question arises as to whether it is reasonable to become a member of the European Union while it is facing a crisis."


    More:
    http://tass.com/world/906010

    Majority of European Parliament votes to freeze EU membership talks with Turkey

    In a non-binding vote, a majority of European Parliament lawmakers were in favor of ending EU accession talks with Turkey. Whether membership negotiations actually end remains to be seen.​
    Straßburg EU Parlament Sitzung Übersicht Symbolbild (picture-alliance/AA/M. Yalcin)

    The majority of lawmakers in the European Parliament on Thursday voted to halt membership talks with Turkey after Ankara's post-coup crackdown on the opposition, academics, intellectuals and those with potential ties to US-based cleric Fethullah Gulen.
    MEPs voting in Strasbourg said the parliament "strongly condemns the disproportionate repressive measures taken in Turkey since the failed military coup attempt."

    About 37,000 people have been arrested since the coup, which alongside thousands of job dismissals and measures against Turkish media have pushed many MEPs to send a clear message to Ankara.

    The non-binding motion approved by European lawmakers said parliament "calls... on the Commission and on the Member States to initiate a temporary freeze of the on-going accession negotiations with Turkey."

    The vote was how the European Parliament could make its opinion known in an official - and public - way to the European Commission, which is responsible for the negotiations, and the governments of the bloc's 28 member states.

    'Null and void'

    The Turkish EU affairs minister, Omer Celik, reacted promptly to the vote, calling it "null and void" and saying it "breached basic European values."
    He claimed that the European Parliament "loses perspective when it comes to Turkey."
    His comments echo those of President Recep Tayyip Erdogan ahead of the vote.

    Erdogan on Wednesday branded the vote "worthless" as it is non-binding, noting that most EU member states - with the exception of Austria - want to keep the Turkey talks on track.

    "I want to say in advance from here and address the whole world watching on their TV screens - this vote has no value at all, no matter what result emerges," he said.

    But the motion, approved by a large majority - 479 votes to 37, with 107 abstentions - is a blow to Ankara-Brussels ties, which have frayed since the July 15 failed coup, threatening a key migration deal between the EU and Turkey.
    Turkey formally applied to become an EU member in 1987 and accession talks only began in 2005. Ankara's aspirations to become part of the bloc date back to the 1960s.

    Earlier this year Brussels agreed to give visa-free travel to Turks once Ankara had carried out reforms and also pledged more aid to Turkey in exchange for Ankara cutting the number of refugees attempting to reach Greek islands from Turkey.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  GarryB on Sat Nov 26, 2016 9:00 am

    The majority of lawmakers in the European Parliament on Thursday voted to halt membership talks with Turkey after Ankara's post-coup crackdown on the opposition, academics, intellectuals and those with potential ties to US-based cleric Fethullah Gulen.
    MEPs voting in Strasbourg said the parliament "strongly condemns the disproportionate repressive measures taken in Turkey since the failed military coup attempt."

    Hahahaha... yeah of course the EU is distancing itself from Turkey because Turkey is being undemocratic... the Albanians in Kosovo sell body parts on the black market and worse and they are OK to be part of the EU and NATO...

    This is the cost Turkey is paying for trying to get relations with Russia to a place where both can benefit... to be honest I doubt Turkey will ever be "good enough" for most EU members... and also being honest I don't think Turkey would benefit from being commanded from Brussels anyway.


    _________________
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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order

    JohninMK

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    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  JohninMK on Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:02 am

    "Erdogan on Wednesday branded the vote "worthless" as it is non-binding, noting that most EU member states - with the exception of Austria - want to keep the Turkey talks on track."

    Think that is delusional, France at least is not tooooo keen.

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    eehnie

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    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  eehnie on Sat Nov 26, 2016 4:53 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    The majority of lawmakers in the European Parliament on Thursday voted to halt membership talks with Turkey after Ankara's post-coup crackdown on the opposition, academics, intellectuals and those with potential ties to US-based cleric Fethullah Gulen.
    MEPs voting in Strasbourg said the parliament "strongly condemns the disproportionate repressive measures taken in Turkey since the failed military coup attempt."

    Hahahaha... yeah of course the EU is distancing itself from Turkey because Turkey is being undemocratic... the Albanians in Kosovo sell body parts on the black market and worse and they are OK to be part of the EU and NATO...

    This is the cost Turkey is paying for trying to get relations with Russia to a place where both can benefit... to be honest I doubt Turkey will ever be "good enough" for most EU members... and also being honest I don't think Turkey would benefit from being commanded from Brussels anyway.

    But this is not the real reason. Russia has nothing to do on it. The situation with Russia only would help to the prospect of Turkey in the EU, but even this is not enough. The EU do not want Turkey inside, despite what the US say. Period. The situation with the coup is only the excuse to cut a bid that no-one, except the US want to continue. Turkey is too big in population, too many millions of persons of different culture and views, Turkey would change the power balance in Europe, and no-one in Europe wants it.

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    eehnie

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    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  eehnie on Sat Nov 26, 2016 4:54 pm

    JohninMK wrote:"Erdogan on Wednesday branded the vote "worthless" as it is non-binding, noting that most EU member states - with the exception of Austria - want to keep the Turkey talks on track."

    Think that is delusional, France at least is not tooooo keen.


    lol
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    Militarov

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    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  Militarov on Sat Nov 26, 2016 4:56 pm

    eehnie wrote:
    GarryB wrote:
    The majority of lawmakers in the European Parliament on Thursday voted to halt membership talks with Turkey after Ankara's post-coup crackdown on the opposition, academics, intellectuals and those with potential ties to US-based cleric Fethullah Gulen.
    MEPs voting in Strasbourg said the parliament "strongly condemns the disproportionate repressive measures taken in Turkey since the failed military coup attempt."

    Hahahaha... yeah of course the EU is distancing itself from Turkey because Turkey is being undemocratic... the Albanians in Kosovo sell body parts on the black market and worse and they are OK to be part of the EU and NATO...

    This is the cost Turkey is paying for trying to get relations with Russia to a place where both can benefit... to be honest I doubt Turkey will ever be "good enough" for most EU members... and also being honest I don't think Turkey would benefit from being commanded from Brussels anyway.

    But this is not the real reason. Russia has nothing to do on it. The situation with Russia only would help to the prospect of Turkey in the EU, but even this is not enough. The EU do not want Turkey inside, despite what the US say. Period. The situation with the coup is only the excuse to cut a bid that no-one, except the US want to continue. Turkey is too big in population, too many millions of persons of different culture and views, Turkey would change the power balance in Europe, and no-one in Europe wants it.


    Turkey would bring 20 million Turks to Europe by 2020. thats what Turkey would bring, and noone wants that. Also how do you imagine Turkey joining EU with literally having war on its soil last 35 years? One really cant join EU if you have unresolved internal matters like.. war.

    Turkey in terms of EU requirements and standars is further even than countries like Bosnia for most part.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  GarryB on Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:21 am

    Yes, I know... the Europeans want to use Turkey as their gateway to the Middle East, and military soil that controls the entrance to the Black Sea and a place to base Jupiter missiles close to Moscow... but not someone they actually want to socialise with or treat as equals... funny, that is their attitude to everyone... including Russia... we want your resources but don't want you to get rich doing it because you are not our equals...


    _________________
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    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
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    eehnie

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    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  eehnie on Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:44 pm

    GarryB wrote:Yes, I know... the Europeans want to use Turkey as their gateway to the Middle East, and military soil that controls the entrance to the Black Sea and a place to base Jupiter missiles close to Moscow... but not someone they actually want to socialise with or treat as equals... funny, that is their attitude to everyone... including Russia... we want your resources but don't want you to get rich doing it because you are not our equals...

    No, no, this is wrong. It is the US who wants their gateway to the Middle East. Not the EU. It is the the US who sees Russia as the enemy. Not Europe.

    In fact Russia is closer to Europe than Turkey. Culturally and in many other areas. And I would say that it would be more accepted an integration of Russia in the EU than of Turkey.


    Last edited by eehnie on Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  KiloGolf on Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:21 pm

    GarryB wrote:Yes, I know... the Europeans want to use Turkey as their gateway to the Middle East

    Ermm no. There's a gateway already it's called shipping, air cargo and ports. Works like a charm since the 70s.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  GarryB on Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:02 am

    Hahahaha... maybe the EU will find some respect for Turkey when most of the Russian gas sent to europe goes through Turkey... Russia never used gas sales as a weapon against Europe even during the Soviet years... but would Turkey do the same?

    I hope not.

    I hope Turkey uses this opportunity to grab europe by the balls and swings her around the room a couple of times... Europe should not be afraid... they can get gas elsewhere... though obviously they don't buy Russian gas out of charity they do it because it is their cheapest option... so spending a bit more for their gas to get energy independence is what the EU can be all about...

    I want to see photos when they fill the pipes leading to the Ukraine on the Russian side with quick setting concrete... the faces in Kiev will be amusing.


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    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  GarryB on Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:04 am

    BTW the "we can't let them join our club because they are different" excuse is a bit thin...

    Are Germans and French men the same as Spanish or Portuguese men? or Finnish or Nordic men?

    Closer ties between Russia and Turkey could mean European workers moving to Turkey... not the other way around...


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
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    KiloGolf

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    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  KiloGolf on Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:16 am

    GarryB wrote:Closer ties between Russia and Turkey could mean European workers moving to Turkey... not the other way around...

    Or the Gulf, or Euro expats anywhere really. As none of what you posted makes sense.
    It's funny tho lol1
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    Airman

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    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  Airman on Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:50 am

    On December 1, Foreign Minister S.#Lavrov will go to Alanya for the fifth session of the #Russian-Turkish #JointStrategicPlanningGroup

    https://twitter.com/RusEmbTurkey?lang=tr
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    Airman

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    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  Airman on Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:15 am

    Turkish, Russian foreign ministers hold talks.





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    eehnie

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    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  eehnie on Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:57 pm

    GarryB wrote:Hahahaha... maybe the EU will find some respect for Turkey when most of the Russian gas sent to europe goes through Turkey... Russia never used gas sales as a weapon against Europe even during the Soviet years... but would Turkey do the same?

    I hope not.

    I hope Turkey uses this opportunity to grab europe by the balls and swings her around the room a couple of times... Europe should not be afraid... they can get gas elsewhere... though obviously they don't buy Russian gas out of charity they do it because it is their cheapest option... so spending a bit more for their gas to get energy independence is what the EU can be all about...

    I want to see photos when they fill the pipes leading to the Ukraine on the Russian side with quick setting concrete... the faces in Kiev will be amusing.

    lol this will never happen. First because South Europe is not a big consummer and has other sources (like Algeria), and makes not sense to move the gas to the South to move it later again to the north. And second because Turkey is not a credible partner for no-one of the sides.

    A Baltic way is far more likely. Direct to every country that really need the gas.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  GarryB on Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:05 am

    A Baltic way is far more likely. Direct to every country that really need the gas.

    The only country making pipes is Russia and they are making their pipeline go through Turkey.

    Why would they route their gas through the Baltic? Those countries are as bad as Ukraine in terms of relations with Russia... at least Turkey will appreciate the business.

    I rather suspect Russia will stop selling to Europe and just sell to Turkey and Turkey can sell to Europe for any price they like...


    _________________
    “The West won the world not by the superiority of its ideas or values or religion […] but rather by its superiority in applying organized violence. Westerners often forget this fact; non-Westerners never do.”

    ― Samuel P. Huntington, The Clash of Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order
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    eehnie

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    Re: Russia and Turkey

    Post  eehnie on Sat Dec 03, 2016 4:30 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    A Baltic way is far more likely. Direct to every country that really need the gas.

    The only country making pipes is Russia and they are making their pipeline go through Turkey.

    Why would they route their gas through the Baltic? Those countries are as bad as Ukraine in terms of relations with Russia... at least Turkey will appreciate the business.

    I rather suspect Russia will stop selling to Europe and just sell to Turkey and Turkey can sell to Europe for any price they like...

    This is only anti-European wishful thinking. Obviously you know not what I'm talking about. There is a line under the Baltic sea direct from Russia until Germany.

    The current main lines from Russia to the West are the following (data about capacity per year):

    55.0x10exp9 m3 Nord Stream (Russia-Baltic Sea-Germany)
    51.0x10exp9 m3 Northern Lights (Russia- Belarus-...)
    32.9x10exp9 m3 Yamal-Europe (Russia-Belarus-Poland-Germany)
    26.0x10exp9 m3 Union (Soyuz) (Russia-Ukraine-...)
    28.0x10exp9 m3 Urengoy-Pomary-Uzhgorod (Russia-Ukraine-Slovakia-...)
    16.0x10exp9 m3 Blue Stream (Russia-Ukraine-Novorrussia-Russia-Turkey)

    In construction:

    55.0x10exp9 m3 Nord Stream 2 (Russia-Baltic Sea-Germany) http://www.pipeline-journal.net/news/nord-stream-2-gas-pipeline-construction-begins

    Projects:

    Connection of Yamal-Europe to Slovakia (Poland-Slovakia)
    31.5x10exp9 m3 Turkish Stream (Russia-Ukraine-Novorrussia-Russia-Turkey)

    With the increase in the supplies by the Nord Stream, the Yamal-Europe pipeline can be allowed to increase its supply to the countries to the South of Poland and Germany. Also the pipelines by Ukraine would tend to supply the Balkans.
    Note that Turkey receives only a half of the gas they buy to Russia by the Blue Stream Pipeline. The other half goes by Ukraine, Moldova, Romania and Bulgaria from the Soyuz pipeline.

    Sponsored content

    Re: Russia and Turkey

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