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    Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

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    GarryB

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:05 am

    BTW I am not a betting man, so I wont hold you to your bet.

    If I am wrong I will be more than a little disappointed in the low numbers of systems.

    Austin

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  Austin on Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:54 pm

    PANTSIR-S1 AIR-DEFENCE MISSILE GUN SYSTEM
    Author: Igor Stepanichev, Valery Slugin - Igor Stepanichev, acting director general of KBP Instrument Design Bureau
    Valery Slugin, general designer of discipline, section chief
    Military Parade, No. 6, 2011, page(s): 6-11

    The Pantsir-S1 air- defence missile gun system (ADMGS) is the natural evolution of the Tunguska system designed in Tula by KBP instrument Design Bureau and put into service in 1982. The performance capabilities of air attack platforms changed drastically since the Tunguska system was put into service with the Soviet Armed Forces. There have emerged small size unmanned aerial vehicles, low altitude high precision cruise missiles and remotely guided combat and reconnaissance aerial vehicles featuring extremely low optical, radar and IR signature. Flight speed of some targets increased up to 1000 m/s. Missile armament of the Tunguska ADMGS intended for engagement of large manned aircraft turned out to be ineffective when countering new threats.

    The Pantsir-S1 ADMGS was developed to fundamentally change the system's performance capabilities in terms of interception zones, reduction of time required for operation, capability to engage all types of targets and broader use of missile armament.

    Outcome of the modern military conflicts (Yugoslavia, Afghanistan and Iraq) was to great extent determined by concentrated air strikes effected against the most important military and economic assets into the depth of the countries' territory.

    Analysis of the said conflicts revealed that all air raids commence with suppression of the enemy's air defence by concentrated air attacks with the use of precision-guided weapons like Harm (ARM), cruise missiles like Tomahawk and guided aircraft bombs like GBU-15 and GBU-16.

    A large number of drones may be flying above the objects under attack for adjustment of target coordinates and assessment of air raid efficiency

    The system features:

    • multitarget capability, i.e. engagement of virtually all types of aerial targets, primarily all types of precision-guided munitions approaching an object under defence at a speed of up to 1000 m/s from different directions, aircraft flying at a speed of up to 500 m/s, helicopters, UAV, as well as lightly armoured ground targets and enemy's manpower;

    • combined missile and gun armament ensuring continuous impact area and continuous firing starting from a distance of 18-20 km to 200 m from targets at altitudes of 10 m to 15 km;

    • multimode adaptive radar and optical weapon control system operating in UHF, EHF and IR wavebands, this ensuring high jamming immunity and survivability under electronic countermeasures and suppression by fire with the use of ECM means and HARM missiles, and high reliability of the system operation;

    • high target engagement rate due to short reaction time, high speed missiles and availability of multi channel control system operating in wide sector;

    • the use of high precision command missile guidance system allowed development of a small size and high maneuverability surface-to-air missile (SAM) featuring high efficiency and low cost;

    • large number of missiles in one combat vehicle (12 pcs.);

    • small size two-stage bi-caliber SAM with solid fuel booster ensuring high average speed, maneuverability and efficient engagement of all types of targets due to high lethality fragmentation rod warhead and high precision SAM guidance system;

    • firing against a receding target ensures double increase of impact depth and the systems performance capabilities when used against manned aircraft, UAV, strategic cruise missiles and tactical cruise missiles;

    • firing missiles on the move extends the system's combat application;

    • fully automatic combat operation mode both as a stand-alone unit and within a battery consisting of several combat vehicles, this allowing to reduce psychophysical stress to crew members;

    • independent combat use due to availability of means of detection, tracking and engagement in one combat vehicle;

    • modular design of combat vehicle and system as a whole allows various modifications based on the basic system.

    during an air attack. Moreover, sabotage groups airdropped in soft-skinned and lightly-armoured vehicles may break through to important objects under defence.

    Therefore, SHORAD systems are also intended to engage drones, light combat vehicles and enemy's manpower in area of the defended objects.

    Large number of targets and high density of air attacks require air defence assets to ensure high target engagement rate, as well as to possess a numerous ready-to-fire and quickly replenishable ammunition load.

    Because of their high price the long range air-defence systems may not be available in sufficient quantity to ensure direct defence of a large number of small size and pin-point military and economic objects with a radius of 1.5-3.0 km which amount to minim of 70% of all the objects to be defended. Besides, the long range air-defence systems can not make use of their capabilities in short range and when used against low altitude targets in difficult terrain.

    SHORAD systems with maximum firing range of 15-20 km play an important part in air defence. Systems of this class significantly outperform the long range systems in terms of cost efficiency.

    The Pantsir-S1 SHORAD system (see the photo of the combat vehicle in Fig.1) designed at KBP Instrument Design Bureau (KBP) is intended for air defence of important small size and pin-point military and industrial objects, infantry units and tactical formations as well as for reinforcement of air defence groups at low and extremely low altitudes when countering concentrated air strikes effected with the use of precision-guided weapons.

    Table 1 describes the main performance specifications of the Pantsir-S1 combat vehicle.

    The mobile version of the Pantsir-S1 system includes: combat vehicles (up to 6 CV in one battery), surface-to-air missiles, 30mm rounds, transporter-loader vehicles (one loader per two CV), maintenance equipment and training equipment.

    The combat vehicle is intended to perform the tasks assigned to the system in terms of engagement of a wide range of aerodynamic and ground targets including those lightly armoured and enemy's manpower.

    Configuration of the system CV is described in Fig.2.

    As seen in the figure the CV features modular design:

    • control module accommodating CV crew;

    • weapons module;

    • turret mount;

    • power supply system compartment (PSS).

    The modular design allows various system configurations including stationary variant.

    Various configurations of Pantsir-S1 AD system are shown in Fig. 3.

    The system may be mounted on lightly armoured vehicles providing powerful and mobile air-defense asset for airborne assault troops, as well as on wheeled and tracked chassis for Air/Land Forces air-defense units or Navy vessels.

    The information assets of the air-defense system include target search radar (TSR), target/missile tracking radar (TTR) and optical/electronic system (OES).

    Make-up of the TSR is shown in Fig. 4.


    TSR provides automatic tracking of up to 20 targets, submitting three coordinates and radial velocity component for each target into CV central computer. Besides that TSR identifies friendly/enemy targets and target types (plane, helicopter, small-size target), thus increasing the system kill probability.

    High combat performance of Pantsir-S1 AD system is guaranteed substantially due to employment of multi-functional target tracking radar (TTR) featuring phased antenna array (PAA). The make-up of the TTR is shown in Fig. 5.

    The TTR incorporates two stations one of which is a receive-only terminal intended for SAM beacon signal perception by few-element phased antenna array (PAA), the latter measuring three coordinates of SAM and employed for missile gathering into main radar pattern. The second multi-element PAA station is a transmitting-receiving antenna irradiating both SAM and target with the following specifications:

    • coordinates determination accuracy:

    - in azimuth, mrad - 0.2

    - in elevation, mrad - 0.2

    - in range, m - 3.0

    - in velocity, m/sec - 2.0

    • simultaneous automatic tracking:

    - targets - up to 3

    - missiles - up to 4

    - maximum target detection range, RCS 2 m2, km - 24

    - operating band - K

    Table 1 - The main performance specifications of the system

    Specification


    Value
    Armament


    Missile and gun
    Ammunition load, pcs:


    • SAM in launcher guides
    12

    • artillery rounds
    1400

    Control system configuration
    Target search radar, target tracking radar with phased antenna array, autonomous optical electronic system

    Number of targets fired at simultaneously within the sector of ± 45°, pcs
    4

    Airplane detection range, km
    32 - 36

    Airplane tracking range, km
    24 - 28

    Impact zones, m:
    by missiles

    • in range
    1200 - 20000

    • in altitude
    10 - 15000

    by guns

    • in range
    200 - 4000

    • in altitude
    0 - 3000

    Maximum speed of targets, m/s
    1000

    SAM guidance system
    radio command with IR and radar sighting

    Response time, s
    4 - 6

    Missile salvo capability
    ensured

    Day and night, all-weather operation of gun and missile armament
    ensured

    Engagement of ground targets by guns and missiles
    ensured

    Firing guns and missiles on the move
    ensured

    Crew members
    3

    Employment of PAA allows for implementation of three firing channels for three targets in all-weather radar mode, thus, the most critical target may be engaged with 2 SAM salvo. Besides, by means of the PAA gathering, the TTR provides radar acquisition and SAM gathering from the dispersion area of the first unguided stage of the missile flight into precise guidance channel of the main PAA. Employment of radar gathering allows for significant improvement of the missile flight performance due to application of high-energy composite propellant booster.

    Along with target angular coordinates and range tracking the TTR also measures three coordinates of the SAM (two angles and range) based of the SAM beacon signals and transmits guidance commands to SAM.

    The TTR operates in HF wave band providing for high precision of angular coordinates measurement and low-altitude targets handling.

    Firing against ground targets and extremely low-altitude targets employs optical\electronic system (OES) of target and missile tracking. The make-up of the OES is shown in Fig. 6.

    The OES is integrated into autonomous optical post (AOP) intended for laying the OES optical axes according to the signals received from the central computer within the following angular range:

    CV main features:

    • independent combat operation;

    • combined missile and gun armament;

    • multimode jamming resistant radar optical guidance system;

    • all-weather capability;

    • automatic combat operation mode;

    • simultaneous firing against four targets;

    • coordination of actions within the battery;

    • armour protection of the crew against bullets and splinters.





    • in azimuth, degr. - ± 90

    • in elevation, degr. - from - 5 to + 82 OES provides final targeting

    according to the target designation received from CC and automatic target acquisition as well. Target tracking is conducted in 3 -5 ƒm IR range and provides round-the-clock application of missile armament in optical operation mode. Automatic tracking range (with weather visibility range of 10 km) is as follows:

    • F-16 aircraft, km - 17.0 - 26.0

    • ARM "Harm", km - 13.0 - 15.0

    • CM ALCM, km - 11.0 - 14.0

    SAM sighting is conducted in close IR range spectrum (0,8 µm), the missile sustainer stage is sighted by the SAM optical responder pulse signals providing high jamming immunity of the channel from thermal dummy targets.

    Narrow fields of view of the optical channels and high accuracy of the AOP gearless engine drives ensure measuring of the target and missile angular coordinates no worse than 0.05 mrad in azimuth and elevation channels.

    Systematic errors of the missile and target channels of the OES are eliminated during the SAM launch while the process of automatic cross adjustment of the missile and target localizers is running.

    Accurate measurement of the missile angular deviations from the target line-of-sight ensures high-precision missile guidance at a target in the optical mode of the control system. Optical mode provides missile firing against targets flying at extremely low altitudes (at a 5m altitude above water surface) and against ground targets.

    This combat vehicle equipment makes its stand-alone operation possible. Availability of the hardware with digital communication channels enables Pantsir-S1 system to conduct battery operation in different modes:

    • stand-alone combat operation;

    • joint operation with command post;

    • battery operation in master-slave mode;

    • battery operation jointly with command post and long-range radar.

    Different modes of Pantsir-S1 operation are shown in the Fig.7

    Main features of the control system:

    • simultaneous firing against four targets flying in the ±45° sector owing to the use of the multifunctional tracking radar incorporating the EHF-band phased antenna array and independent optical channel;

    • high immunity to any type of jamming owing to integration of the radar and optical-electronic means into the single system which is able to function in dm-, mm-, and IR wave bands;

    • capability of salvo firing by two missiles against one target owing to the use of the target tracking radar (TTR);

    • short reaction time within 4 - 6 sec. owing to the automatic tracking of up to

    The Pantsir-S1 ADMGS was developed to fundamentally change the system's performance capabilities in terms of interception zones, reduction of time required for operation, capability to engage all types of targets and broader use of missile armament.



    20 targets by the target search radar (TSR) and target designating with an accuracy ensuring fast final targeting and target acquisition by TTR and optical-electronic system (OES);

    • computation of informative characteristics including target motion rate and target characteristics, selection of weapon type and assigning firing mode;

    • realization of a complete combat operation cycle - from targets searching to their destruction in automatic mode;

    • crew combat operation semiautomatic mode capability.

    The two-stage air-defense guided missile 57E6-E (Fig.Cool features.

    The gun armament consists of two 2A38M double-barrel AA automatic guns adopted from the Tunguska-M1 weapon system. They are capable to engage air and ground-based targets in a zone of up to 4 km in range and of up to 3 km in altitude.

    High performance characteristics of the air-defense missile-gun system Pantsir-S1 ensure great advantage over foreign countries short-range AD systems for the AD systems supplied with Pantsir-S1.



    Purpose:

    • target designation reception, fine search, automatic target acquisition and tracking:

    - trajectory tracking- up to 8

    - priority targets - up to 3

    • post-launch automatic acquisition and tracking of up to 4 SAM

    • encoding and transmission of guidance commands to the tracked SAMs

    Features:

    • main transmitting\receiving antenna with multielement feed-through mm-band PAA ensuring high-precision target and SAM tracking

    • gathering phased-array receive-only antenna ensuring acquisition and gathering of SAM into main array

    Azimuth coverage zone, degr...........................................±45

    (360° subject to turret rotation)

    Elevation coverage, degr...........................................-5 to +85

    Maximum target tracking range, km:

    - RCS=2m2 .........................................................24

    - RCS=0.03m2........................................................7

    Fine search area following TSR target designation

    in 1 sec. with 0.9 probability:

    - In azimuth, degr...................................................±2.5

    - In elevation, degr..................................................±2.5

    - In range, m......................................................±200

    Target coordinates measurement precision:

    - azimuth/elevation, mrad............................................0.2/0.2

    - range, m .........................................................3.0

    - velocity, m/sec......................................................2

    Radial velocity measurement range, m/sec

    -target......................................................10 to 1000

    -SAM ......................................................30 to 2100

    Simultaneous tracking:

    - targets........................................................up to 3

    - SAMs ........................................................up to 4

    Operating band.......................................................K

    Characteristic features:

    - short flight time on the launch trajectory (t - 2.4s, Vmax = 1300m/s);

    - high maneuverability after booster separation;

    - low ballistic deceleration during booster-free flight (decrease of speed of 40 m/s over 1km);

    - extended engagement envelope of 20km in range and 15 km in altitude;

    - heavy weight of the warhead (20kg) at missile's low launch weight (75.7 kg)







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    TR1

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  TR1 on Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:58 pm

    Thanks Austin, great read.
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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  TheArmenian on Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:44 am

    Thanks Austin for posting the articles from Military Parade.
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    medo

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  medo on Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:52 pm

    Thanks Austin, great articles.

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  Austin on Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:55 am

    Any time friends , will post more in the coming days as i get some time keep watching this space.
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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  medo on Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:49 pm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0jheHp072wU#!

    Interesting video about development of Russian air defense systems.
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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  TheArmenian on Sun Feb 05, 2012 4:40 pm

    medo wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=0jheHp072wU#!

    Interesting video about development of Russian air defense systems.


    Thanks. The link you posted is the 4th part of a series.

    The download has started Very Happy
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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  medo on Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:05 am



    New photo of tracked Pantsir-S1. Behind is green Pantsir with new search radar, so this photo is of newer date. I don't know if this tracked Pantsir and BMD-4 are from KBP collection or new build for customers. Anyway I hope Russian ground forces air defense will son get tracked Pantsirs in their brigades to work together wit Tor-M2.
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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  TheArmenian on Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:03 pm

    If the photo legitimate (not a photoshop) than it concludes that the tracked pantsir is still alive and might see production.
    I noticed that it has 12 rockets instead of the 8 on previous photos.

    By the way Medo, why would the Army go for both TOr-M2 and tracked Pantsir? Aren't they more or less equivalent?
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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  TheArmenian on Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:56 pm

    Ok. It is confirmed: the photo of the tracked Pantsir is real.



    And a closer look from behind of the wheeled Pantsir with the new search radar.



    Remember the first phot of the wheeled Pantsir with the new radar? Here is the ENICS target UAV it destroyed in Kapustin Yar last summer:
    http://www.enics.ru/main/news?idN=139
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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  medo on Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:53 pm

    Thanks for additional pictures. It seems they were prepared there for high ranking visit in KBP Tula. I wonder if this green Pantsir with new search radar is meant for Russian air force.

    Tracked Pantsir have the same turret and same radars as the one on standard wheeled Pantsir, so it for sure have the same capabilities.

    True, Pantsir and Tor-M2 are more or less equal, but still are different. In previous time ground forces also use both Tunguska and Tor-M1. Could be, that they will buy both to get more systems per year, because they are produces in different producers and that they well supplement each other in battle formation and could make electronic warfare against both of them more difficult.
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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  TR1 on Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:55 pm

    TheArmenian wrote:If the photo legitimate (not a photoshop) than it concludes that the tracked pantsir is still alive and might see production.
    I noticed that it has 12 rockets instead of the 8 on previous photos.

    By the way Medo, why would the Army go for both TOr-M2 and tracked Pantsir? Aren't they more or less equivalent?

    Competing factories jockeying for orders.
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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:48 am

    Actually the Brigade structure of the Russian Army has two air defence battalions ... one is gun and missile (ie Tunguska) and the other is missile only (Strela-10 or Tor).

    I rather expect they will keep this structure and the Pantsir-S1 on a tracked vehicle would be manditory to keep up with tracked units. I rather suspect the TOR will replace Strela-10 (SA-13), though some units might get Morfei based units as well.

    At a higher level they will have BUK, which will likely be replaced by Vityaz/Morfei when that system comes on line.

    The whole point of the Pantsir-S1 system was to make it flexible to be a cross service system, so the trailer version, the truck mounted version, the tracked version and a naval version were all developed for the respective military arms.

    The tracked models are for tracked Army units. The trailer and truck mounted models will likely be used by the Army to defend S-300V4 systems and fixed sites because it is cheaper to buy and operate than the tracked models. The Airforce will also buy the truck and trailer models, with the former having the same wheeled mobility as the S-400 and S-500 units they will be located with, while the trailer models will be set up around fixed sites like airfields and command centres.
    The Navy will use both the ship based system and likely the trailer and truck mounted systems for defending port facilities and S-400 SAM sites and HQs.
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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  TheArmenian on Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:42 am

    I will be surprised if the navy adopts the naval version of Pantsir on the stealthy Frigates and corvettes. The Pantsir system has a poor RCS. It will make sense to have it though on the aircraft carriers as they are not stealthy at all.
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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  TheArmenian on Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:12 pm

    Some new photos from another site: http://mirabilis-ru.livejournal.com/677.html
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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  medo on Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:18 pm

    I more think tracked Pantsir will replace Tunguska in army units, while Tor-M2 will replace old Osa, which also need replacement.
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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:40 am

    I will be surprised if the navy adopts the naval version of Pantsir on the stealthy Frigates and corvettes. The Pantsir system has a poor RCS. It will make sense to have it though on the aircraft carriers as they are not stealthy at all.

    The naval Pantsir-S1s will most likely be fitted to non stealthy vessels like the Kuznetsov upgrade, and Kirov upgrades and Slava upgrades.

    I would think the future of CIWS will be a combination of Duet gun turrets with stealthy enclosures, and Morfei lock on after launch IIR seeking short range missiles.

    With upgrades the Pantsir-S1 can replace both Kashtan and Klinok on large vessels receiving upgrades.

    The number of engagement channels per turret (4), and the engagement envelope... from 2m up to 15km and from1.5km out to 20km means it can tackle a wide range of threats well beyond Kashtan and Klintock... and in some parameters can exceed medium range SAMs like SA-N-7 in terms of lower ceiling and crossing range.
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    Pantsir-S1: News

    Post  Viktor on Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:07 pm

    Well as Im in a little hurry I will write my opinion on this rather harsh report but there are some interesting things also witch suggest TOR-M2/Pancir-S1 will be used together and will not replace each other.

    Well here it is.

    07/04/12 REPORT ON THE SHORTCOMINGS ZRPK "ARMOUR-C1"
    April 7 2012 .
    bmpd.livejournal.com, April 6. From 3 to April 6 in St. Petersburg under the auspices of the Russian Academy of Missile and Artillery Sciences (RARAN) and JSC "NPO Special Materials" held open Jubilee XV-th All-Russian Conference "Actual problems of safety and security." The conference was held in VUNTS Navy "Naval Academy. N. Kuznetsova. "

    One of the participants at our disposal did read notes on the conference report, representatives of an entirely open-air defense of Russia "Evaluation of ZRPK" Armour-S1. "The report's authors - Belotserkovsky VV, Candidate of Military Sciences, Associate Professor (VPVO Air Force) and D . A. Razin (VA VPVO BC).

    The report states:

    Work to create complex "Armour-C1 'held by the" Programme of development of a unified system of antiaircraft missile weapons (weapons) "under the ROC" ZPRK "," Armour-C1 "," Armour-SM "," Redoubt "and" Gladiator. " On the basis of technical solutions ZPRK "Armour-C1 'plan to create interspecies short-range and short range, including the defense ST.

    The main advantages of ZPRK "Patsir-C1 'are the presence of the automatic mode of operation, including in the composition of the subdivision, and the ability to fire at targets up and moving as the cannon and missile weapons.
    However, the developer is not currently addressed the following main problems and shortcomings:

    1) The actual results showed a low-fire testing of fire komplksa possible targets maneuvering and flying with the coursework option for more than 2 - 3 km

    2) confirmed the possibility of shooting at targets flying at speeds over 400 m / s, although the complex is given in the TTX velocity equal to 1000 m / s

    3) The maximum range 20 km provided at air targets flying at speeds of up to 80 m / s (target E-95), as disposable peregruki SAM at this distance does not exceed 5 units.

    4) The main disadvantage is bikalibernoy rocket ***** otstutstvie engine sustainer stage missiles, which resulted in the stated range Zana defeat the missile will move to a negative acceleration of the order of 50-30 m/s2, which leads to the appearance of such non-linearities in the input signal control loop SAM, which lead to errors uvelichaniyu her guidance in the rapidly maneuvering target

    5) is not confirmed by the possibility of complex lesion MAF, TRUNC, and their warheads using hypersonic missiles with a warhead weight 4 kg

    6) the presence of only two methods of targeting missiles ***** (using three points, the method of half-rectification) limit the ability of the complex to engage with different types of EHV difficult conditions (maneuvers, noise, NLTS, hovering helicopters, UAVs, etc. etc.).

    7) management system to undermine the hypersonic warhead missiles, which operates on a signal from ZPRK in accordance with the established difference between the distances between the target and the missile can be effective only when the mouse SAM ****** by full rectification, but when you hover the SAM method of "three points "and half a rectification works only when moving directly to the target shooting fighting machine ZPRK

    Cool in the latter case, the effectiveness of the above defeats the purpose may be low due to the phenomenon ricocheting submunitions chati battle, as in this case the vector of its velocity will be directed at a small angle to the surface of target

    9) does not ensure the effective coordination of military equipment SAM (non-contact sensor field trip purpose, and the NDC area razeta submunitions warhead), and preventing operation of the NDC **** SAM from the surface during firing of NLTS
    10) the impact of weather conditions (rain, fog, hydrometeors) to reduce target detection range for the developed RLSSTSR millimeter wave range is 10-50 times stronger than the version of radar ZPRK centimeter wavelength range, and this deficiency can not be skompensrovan presence ZPRK " Patsir-C1 'opto-electronic channel EC support, because the latter is also a negative depending on weather conditions

    11) large dimensions in the BM ZRPK wheelbase, especially in height (in firing position 5.65 m ), And the lack of armor protection ognekomplekta, apparatus bay (SOC, SSTSR, MSA) do not allow ZPRK at the forefront in the battle, and pre-combat troops disguised orders

    12) BM ZPRK dimensions in the stowed position on the wheel base (4, 374 m ) Does not allow you to transport it by rail, as the allowable loading gauge height (1T) is 3.8 m , And the dismantling of the apparatus bays and loading it into a platform for the transport with the aid of a special valve makes for a BM 3 hours, and requires a spetskrana and accessories.
    Unloading and installation of the equipment compartment for rail transportation require the same labor costs (3:00) and the presence of spetskrana.

    13) dimensions of the BM increased labor costs for technical equipment starting position compared to other SAMs (SAM) army air defense

    14) while translating complex from traveling to combat the use of "ECO Mode" (with a thermal imager) exceeds the stated 5 minutes (actually 8-9 minutes)

    15) at boot time full of ammunition with the TLV is sufficiently large and is 25-30 minutes
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    TR1

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  TR1 on Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:23 pm

    There have already been several replies to this by PVO guys, lemme find them again and post them.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:30 am

    Well some of the performance problems can be dealt with via Hermes.

    The design of the new Pantsir-S1 missile is unified with the new anti tank missile Hermes, but with a few differences, one of which is that the Hermes will have several terminal homing options including MMW radar, SALH, satellite, and IIR.

    Even very serious problems in guidance accuracy should get the missile fired from a Pantsir-S1 close enough for a nose mounted IIR or MMW radar seeker to detect the target and engage it.

    Of course I am not going to defend the Pantsir-S1 too much because I think having it and TOR is a good idea as they compliment each other... and at the moment both use cheap missiles that can be bought in large numbers and used in training, unlike a more expensive missile with its own built in guidance system that will be destroyed each time it is used.

    gloriousfatherland

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  gloriousfatherland on Sun Apr 08, 2012 3:04 am

    Well its a good thing they didn't mention anything about it being able to shoot down stealth aircraft or not shot it down Rolling Eyes
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    medo

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  medo on Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:21 pm

    Those shortcomings are interesting.

    First of all, Pantsir placed on truck is not meant for ground forces, but for Air force units, so this is not a shortcoming.

    Shortcomings mentioned on testings with aerostats and E-95 drones are actually tests, which we could see on youtube. But I'm sure these are not all tests. It was for sure far more tested in Russia and in UAE, that what we could see on youtube videos and while UAE didn't say Pantsir is not reaching its given capabilities and is buying it (in contrary, they will cancel Pantsir and buy western equipment like Crotale NG or similar) only means that Pantsir is reaching what is meant to reach by given capabilities.

    Shortcomings in missile guidance, this is BS. Missiles are SACLOS guided, they are not IR or ARH. Radar or EO sight track the target and guide missile to it, parameters have no influence with missiles, they are for gun ballistic computer and parameter 2-3 km is for gun armament.

    Weather conditions are the same for all tracking radars, which work little slower to filter rain, but all other is the same.

    4 kg warhead with specially designed fragments is still more than enough for practically all flying targets, but at the end any remaining missile or bomb will be engaged by guns.

    Some shortcomings mentioned with railway transport and loading time are nonsense, because it is not ground forces SAM, but air force SAM and majority of similar systems don't have better times.
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    TheArmenian

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  TheArmenian on Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:43 pm

    IT all suspiciously sounds like the whole thing was written by someone on the payroll of a competitive design bureau (Almaz, Kupol...).
    Waiting for TR1's translations of comments by PVO guys.
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    GarryB

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

    Post  GarryB on Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:53 pm

    It is interesting to hear criticism of MMW radar for its reduced effectiveness in bad weather.

    CM wave radar is less effected by the weather and has better range but is much easier to jam or direct anti radiation missiles at. AFAIK there are no ARMs that seek emitters in the MMW band.

    Equally while CM wave radar has longer range it does not have the definition to see the shape of ground targets like MMW radar does.

    In terms of night and all weather capability the Pantsir-S1 with CM and MMW radar plus thermal and digital optics is very well equipped to engage a range of targets.

    In comparison the Sosna-R generally only has thermal and optical systems and laser beam riding guidance.

    Note the huge jump in guidance accuracy for Kornet-EM is probably directly related to both the Pantsir-S1 and Hermes and Kornet all being KBP products and a significant reason for the doubling of range was the increase in precision in guidance for the auto tracker and optics.

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    Re: Pantsir-S1 News Thread:

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