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    Russian-Made Crash Notification

    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:37 am

    There was a report that two bodies have been found and one crewman has been rescued but the other is missing.

    (two two seater aircraft means four men...)

    RIP if true... Sad
    George1
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    Post  George1 on Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:03 pm

    Two crew members of the Tupolev-22M3 died in crash in Murmansk Region - Defense Ministry

    More:
    http://tass.com/emergencies/1041152
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:33 pm

    Bad start to the year. Three planes gone, 6 dead. Two Su-34 and one Tu-22M3. Can't replace a life and the aircrafts gone means Russia will be even further behind in modernization.

    Sad all around. RIP to the pilots. Thank goodness that two are alive.

    Edit: 4 dead.
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:14 pm

    So in these situations, what happens next? Does the MoD order two new Su-34s to replace the lost ones, and add another older Tu-22M from reserve to service? I'm unsure what usually happens after these events?
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:00 pm

    Vann normally pops up and tells us it is all Putins fault and it is quality control in Russia because they don't know how to make anything properly and accidents are all about quality control... apparently.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:08 pm

    Tu-22M are already more than 30 years old. It's an old plane and being supersonic means more stressed than a subsonic one. Modernization won't help. They need a successor quickly.

    older Tu-22M from reserve to service? I'm unsure what usually happens after these events?

    To risk another 4 lifes ?

    In US you would have a colonel at the congress saying they need new b-222221 and 10 billion $ more on the budget. In russia nothing.
    Hole
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    Post  Hole on Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:15 pm

    B-52 is from the 60´s
    B-1B from the 80´s.

    Most Tu-22M3´s in service are much younger.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:28 pm

    Hole wrote:B-52 is from the 60´s
    B-1B from the 80´s.

    Most Tu-22M3´s in service are much younger.

    Comparing with US analogues won't make them safer. In terms of keeping operational old aircraft, US are better. First the climat is better, they have hangars, their aircrafts didn't spend all the 1990s outdoor without being flown, they don't stay every winter under the snow, they have money to repair/buy spare parts quickly ...
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    hoom

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    Post  hoom on Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:35 pm

    Bad start to the year. Three planes gone, 6 dead. Two Su-34 and one Tu-22M3.
    For reals, hopefully will not continue like that.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:32 am

    In US you would have a colonel at the congress saying they need new b-222221 and 10 billion $ more on the budget. In russia nothing.

    That is because well before the B-2222221 gets into service that Colonel knows he will have retired from the military and he wants a cushy high paying job at Boeing so he can live the retirement the military was never going to be able to afford to give him.

    Russian officers don't give a shit about the profit margins of Tupolev or Sukhoi... and neither they should.

    Comparing with US analogues won't make them safer.

    The Tu-22M3s are young aircraft... if they have to retire them because they are too old to operate safely then their designs are fundamentally flawed and there is something seriously wrong.

    If they can't keep their planes flying now there is no point in giving them new planes.

    To risk another 4 lifes ?

    What you need to do is calm down and change your underwear... and relax, while the Russian military does what it needs to do... ie work out what went wrong and work out how to fix the problems.

    They also need to work out by 6 people are dead despite sitting on perfectly good ejection seats that should have saved them.

    There might be a dozen reasons they they were each killed, but scrapping perfectly good aircraft and demanding new ones is the sort of thing a 5 year old would demand... (so it makes sense for US colonels to do this).

    New Planes crash too so you just spent a billion dollars and you have the same problems you had before... your fired.
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:47 am

    Hole wrote:B-52 is from the 60´s
    B-1B from the 80´s.

    Most Tu-22M3´s in service are much younger.

    B-52s in service today were built in the 80s same as Tu-95s and they are subsonic hence much less load. They are both in far better condition.

    B-1Bs have barely been used over the years, they spent most of their service life in glorified storage in the desert.

    They definitely need something to replace Tu-22s, hopefully PAK-DA should be online within reasonable timeframe, it's subsonic aircraft after all so there should be no major hickups.
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    mnztr

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    Post  mnztr on Wed Jan 23, 2019 4:59 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    Hole wrote:B-52 is from the 60´s
    B-1B from the 80´s.

    Most Tu-22M3´s in service are much younger.

    B-52s in service today were built in the 80s same as Tu-95s and they are subsonic hence much less load. They are both in far better condition.

    B-1Bs have barely been used over the years, they spent most of their service life in glorified storage in the desert.

    They definitely need something to replace Tu-22s, hopefully PAK-DA should be online within reasonable timeframe, it's subsonic aircraft after all so there should be no major hickups.

    There were NO B-52 built in the 80s, the last one was made in 1962 geezzz...the B1 was made in the 80s
    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon on Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:10 am

    mnztr wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Hole wrote:B-52 is from the 60´s
    B-1B from the 80´s.

    Most Tu-22M3´s in service are much younger.

    B-52s in service today were built in the 80s same as Tu-95s and they are subsonic hence much less load. They are both in far better condition.

    B-1Bs have barely been used over the years, they spent most of their service life in glorified storage in the desert.

    They definitely need something to replace Tu-22s, hopefully PAK-DA should be online within reasonable timeframe, it's subsonic aircraft after all so there should be no major hickups.

    There were NO B-52 built in the 80s, the last one was made in 1962 geezzz...the B1 was made in the 80s

    My bad, sorry. Been selling USAF bit short there.

    So it's just subsonic part for B-52s.

    And with 2 decades more than Tupolevs it looks like exceptional maintenance quality as well, good job thumbsup
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:17 am

    What a censored .

    We don't even know why it crashed but you have already decided...

    What a censored .
    Russophile
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    Post  Russophile on Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:22 am

    A Tu-22M3 supersonic strategic bomber has crashed in Russia’s north-west while trying to make a landing during a sudden snowstorm. Two crew members died in the incident while two others were injured.
    The bomber got into trouble after conducting a training exercise, the Russian defense ministry reported. It attempted to make a landing at an air base near the city of Olenegorsk in Russia’s Murmansk region.

    The aircraft was destroyed by the impact. Two crew members died on the spot while two others survived and were taken to a hospital for treatment, the ministry said.

    The storm, which affected the aircraft, is of a rare kind that only happens in Arctic areas. It is almost impossible to predict and develops very rapidly, turning a calm day into a fierce and dangerous blizzard.
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:26 am

    The storm, which affected the aircraft, is of a rare kind that only happens in Arctic areas. It is almost impossible to predict and develops very rapidly, turning a calm day into a fierce and dangerous blizzard.

    Are they trying to suggest even an immaculately maintained B-52 might have crashed in the same situation?

    Surely not... the obvious solution is a 1.5 trillion dollar programme to develop a strategic long range hypersonic STOVL bomber... might need to rope in a few dozen allies to buy some to help pay for it and it needs to be 20 years late and 10 times over budget...
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    Post  mnztr on Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:26 am

    PapaDragon wrote:
    mnztr wrote:
    PapaDragon wrote:
    Hole wrote:B-52 is from the 60´s
    B-1B from the 80´s.

    Most Tu-22M3´s in service are much younger.

    B-52s in service today were built in the 80s same as Tu-95s and they are subsonic hence much less load. They are both in far better condition.

    B-1Bs have barely been used over the years, they spent most of their service life in glorified storage in the desert.

    They definitely need something to replace Tu-22s, hopefully PAK-DA should be online within reasonable timeframe, it's subsonic aircraft after all so there should be no major hickups.

    There were NO B-52 built in the 80s, the last one was made in 1962 geezzz...the B1 was made in the 80s

    My bad, sorry. Been selling USAF bit short there.

    So it's just subsonic part for B-52s.

    And with 2 decades more than Tupolevs it looks like exceptional maintenance quality as well, good job thumbsup

    Whats the excuse for the B1s then? Crappy design? Lousy maint? Looks like the US forgot how to design reliable planes since B-52. Its quite sad that 2 generations of bombers could not replace it. Russia has an excuse (collapse of the country) what the excuse for the US?
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:46 am

    Yes, after reading what happened, it was essentially really shit weather. And in this regard, two possibilities: they mistaken signal lights from a facility as landing strip lights or heavy impact due to high winds. Both cases could be resolved though by providing a FLIR system to the aircrafts bottom area to be able to verify it's position to ground and what the ground looks like in all weather.

    This should be something pushed, as it would save lives and probably cost very little overall.

    They will definitely have to bring a Tu-22M from reserve (if there are any in reserve still) and modernize it.

    The Su-34's was huge pilot error which no matter how good a jet, can't solve mistakes like that.
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    Post  JohninMK on Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:39 pm

    From what we know neither of these incidents seems to be the fault of the aircraft themselves. Also in both cases it is possible that ejection was not an option (although do we know if anyone did actually eject?) in that the incidents happened too quickly. Probably human error by the pilots in the Su-34 case being too close and colliding and possibly ground control (not having a good enough view of conditions?) for the Tu-22M as although these snow blizzards may appear very quickly that is surely many minutes not seconds.

    Difficult to blame the aircraft.
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    Post  GarryB on Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:44 pm

    For all we know in a crash landing there probably was no time between when they realised there was a problem and when they could not longer eject in time, and for the collision... the two that died might have been incapacitated by the impact and never given the chance to eject...

    But all this speculation is pointless right now... adults wait for investigations why the kids squeal and demand action so it never happens again...
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    Post  JohninMK on Thu Jan 24, 2019 6:38 pm


    Russian military preliminary report on their investigation into T-22M3 strike bomber crash was apparently leaked online today.

    Russian Tupolev Tu-22M3 strike bomber (35 Red / RF-94159), carrying four crew members, has crashed at 13:40 p.m. (Moscow time) in Russia’s northwestern region of Murmansk, according to an initial report.

    The accident occurred as the long-range bomber was attempting to land at Olenegorsk airfield, aircraft caught fire and was destroyed.

    Of the four crew members, two were injured and were transported to a medical facility to receive assistance whereas two were killed.

    Preliminary results of the military investigation said the cause of the accident is a piloting error. Tu-22M3 bombe’s crew allowed landing with increased load.


    Russian-Made Crash Notification  - Page 10 1685373_original-min

    https://defence-blog.com/news/russian-tu-22m3-bomber-crash-preliminary-report-gives-details.html
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    Post  hoom on Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:08 pm

    Tu-22M3 bombe’s crew allowed landing with increased load.
    Storm came in shortly after takeoff -> quick landing with too much fuel (no time to burn off/dump) and payload?

    Apparently this was a plane upgraded in 2012 so should have been in pretty good condition.
    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB on Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:02 am

    So over weight and likely a rushed landing to get down before conditions got worse...

    So only two dead in the the Backfire... has there been any update with the Fullbacks?
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    Post  JohninMK on Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:17 pm

    There is a video of the Tu-22M crash, came in heavy tail down, fuselage snapped at the engines, crew in front part went down the runway, rear section left runway and exploded. Lucky anyone got out. Horrific.

    This link should work, some interesting stuff on the thread apart from this very sad video.

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1089264545078628353

    or its in this Twitter link a bit down the page.

    https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1089264545078628353
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:27 pm

    They came too fast Shocked altimetre was dead for sure and they had no visibility.

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