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    Russian-Made Crash Notification

    runaway
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    Post  runaway on Thu May 03, 2018 2:49 pm

    George1 wrote:Russian Su-30SM has crashed into the sea off the coast of Syrian town of Jabla in Latakia. Both pilot & co-pilot/weapon systems officer(WSO) have died in the crash. Rus MoD:may have been caused by a bird hitting the engine. 1st in Rus service Su-30SM crash.

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    How come it crashed with a bird in the engine, shouldnt it fly with one engine?
    Or did both engines get birds in them?

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    Post  PapaDragon on Thu May 03, 2018 5:56 pm

    runaway wrote:.......
    How come it crashed with a bird in the engine, shouldnt it fly with one engine?
    Or did both engines get birds in them?

    Bird hits have been known to take out even four engined aircraft, they don't' need to be sucked into engine, hit in the wrong spot is often enough
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    Post  archangelski on Thu May 03, 2018 5:58 pm

    George1 wrote:Russian Su-30SM has crashed into the sea off the coast of Syrian town of Jabla in Latakia. Both pilot & co-pilot/weapon systems officer(WSO) have died in the crash. Rus MoD:may have been caused by a bird hitting the engine. 1st in Rus service Su-30SM crash.

    Really sad news. RIP for the pilots.
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Thu May 03, 2018 6:40 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    runaway wrote:.......
    How come it crashed with a bird in the engine, shouldnt it fly with one engine?
    Or did both engines get birds in them?

    Bird hits have been known to take out even four engined aircraft, they don't' need to be sucked into engine, hit in the wrong spot is often enough

    A similar accident detailed I also posted on the other thread :

    medo
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    Post  medo on Thu May 03, 2018 7:14 pm

    Considering it is in process of taking off, most probably it didn't have enough altitude to save plane. RIP to the crew.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat May 05, 2018 7:10 am

    Could easily have been more than one bird too... birds sometimes fly in groups...

    RIP to crew.

    Dare I say it, they should have ejected and saved themselves and let the plane crash... nobody will go to the funeral of a plane...
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    Post  George1 on Mon May 07, 2018 11:33 pm

    Russian Ka-52 has crashed in Syria earlier today. Both pilot & WSO died as a result, bodies have been recovered. MoD claims technical malfunction, Kommesant source that it might have been shot down by hostile MANPADS.

    https://www.kommersant.ru/doc/3623182

    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Mon May 07, 2018 11:45 pm

    As I have said countless of times, Kommersant is total fucking shit and sorry George, but posting it reduces your credibility by a huge portion.

    No evidence needed. Just trying to make money from a story over dead people due to a malfunction. They should be shot.
    magnumcromagnon
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    Post  magnumcromagnon on Tue May 08, 2018 12:12 am

    miketheterrible wrote:As I have said countless of times, Kommersant is total fucking shit and sorry George, but posting it reduces your credibility by a huge portion.

    No evidence needed.  Just trying to make money from a story over dead people due to a malfunction.  They should be shot.

    Agreed. Kommersant is pure trash, making claims without any real evidence it's basically the National Inquirer of the CIS, especially considering that of all the CAS aircraft that the Ka-52 is arguably the least susceptible to be defeated by manpads. RIP to the pilots.
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    Post  Svyatoslavich on Tue May 08, 2018 12:46 am

    Ka-52 has DIRCM suite and should be one of the hardest targets to be shot by MANPADs. I alos think it most likely BS.
    miketheterrible
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    Post  miketheterrible on Tue May 08, 2018 12:53 am

    Of course it was. It crashed near Syrian Army positions. It would have been rather easy for them to know for sure if it was shot down or not.
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    Post  Pierre Sprey on Mon Jun 04, 2018 1:49 am

    GarryB wrote:Could easily have been more than one bird too... birds sometimes fly in groups...

    RIP to crew.

    Dare I say it, they should have ejected and saved themselves and let the plane crash... nobody will go to the funeral of a plane...

    It was even disclosed in the report that they were fighting to save the jet till the last moment. They should have bailed. But its more proof that it was probably a bird. They probably initiated the procedure for a bird and thought they could save it.
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    Post  mnztr on Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:52 pm

    Pierre Sprey wrote:
    GarryB wrote:Could easily have been more than one bird too... birds sometimes fly in groups...

    RIP to crew.

    Dare I say it, they should have ejected and saved themselves and let the plane crash... nobody will go to the funeral of a plane...

    It was even disclosed in the report that they were fighting to save the jet till the last moment. They should have bailed. But its more proof that it was probably a bird. They probably initiated the procedure for a bird and thought they could save it.

    Hmm they stayed with it far to long, shoulda punched out. I wonder if this is cultural. An experience flight crew is much harder to replace then a plane.
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    Post  hoom on Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:28 pm

    For the record: A Russian Il-20 got accidentally shot down by Syrian S-200 during Israeli strike on Latakia area silent
    Isos
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    Post  Isos on Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:49 pm

    Mig-31 crashed in russia on a training flight. Both pilot ejected safely.

    https://www.rt.com/news/438818-mig31-crashes-in-russia/
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    Post  miketheterrible on Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:39 pm

    What a joke.  Far too many crashes.  At least with these old birds.

    I think a replacement is needed sooner than later.

    There is also the theory it is a newly renovated aircraft, and at that point, facility that modernized it needs to be investigated cause this is happening far too often.
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    Post  GarryB on Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:20 pm

    Accidents need to be properly investigated before decisions on action are taken... accidents because of mistakes or errors or just bad luck are not evenly spread out over time... some times there are clusters of unrelated accidents, and other times there are gaps.

    The one thing to note is that now they are getting more air time then problems will show up too... but the best way to prevent all air crashes is to never leave the ground...
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    Post  miketheterrible on Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:23 pm

    Good point.

    But Russia has a rather bad, much like US, crash rate. Both have very sloppy forms of QC.

    USA can afford it due to printing funny money.

    Russia doesn't.

    So hence next step is for Russia to increase quality control. Maybe have a third party from government monitor all QC.
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    Post  hoom on Thu Sep 20, 2018 2:37 pm

    Far too many crashes. At least with these old birds.
    Are you so sure?
    Charly015 counts don't look too bad really.

    Tass has done a list of MiG-31 incidents in last 10yrs https://tass.ru/info/5582757
    Its 9: 1 per year except 2009, 2012 and 2 in 2010, 8 lost planes, 4 incidents seem to be from crew error.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:16 am

    Vann keeps going on about quality control too... which is funny, because he really has no fricken idea what sort of quality control Russian aircraft manufacturers have, or implement.

    I would say what I normally say... wait for the investigation to be completed and then look at their recommendation and work from there...

    At the end of the day accidents will ALWAYS happen... even with perfect quality control... the best you can hope for is training to make sure if they can't save the plane that they save themselves instead.

    And no it is not necessarily a Russian thing... most pilots I know have a special relationship with their planes and will try to save them if they can... of course they can always be wrong and when they are they die with the plane.

    Obviously ejecting at the hint of a problem is not good either... finding a middle ground is the problem and the issue... and there will always be mistakes that will either cost an aircraft when it did not need to, or will cost lives when it should not have... clearly the latter is much worse than the former...
    Needless to say when there are thousands of aircraft with thousands of pilots flying every day in good weather and in bad weather then you could expect rather more accidents... you can bet that over the last 10 years there were more car accidents than aircraft accidents in most countries... and most cars are very well made and don't normally leave the ground.
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    Post  Vladimir79 on Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:55 am

    miketheterrible wrote:Good point.

    But Russia has a rather bad, much like US, crash rate. Both have very sloppy forms of QC.

    You can't really compare US crash rates to Russian. The US flies 2 million flight hours a year, we are in the low hundreds of thousands.
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    Post  miketheterrible on Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:16 pm

    Vladimir79 wrote:
    miketheterrible wrote:Good point.

    But Russia has a rather bad, much like US, crash rate. Both have very sloppy forms of QC.

    You can't really compare US crash rates to Russian.  The US flies 2 million flight hours a year, we are in the low hundreds of thousands.  

    No they don't, especially not anymore.

    Anyway, MiG-29UB crashed today in Moscow region. Thankfully no one hurt or killed.
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    Post  GarryB on Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:55 am

    Of course you can compare US crashes with Russian crashes but you need to be very careful about the conclusions you draw...
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    Post  dino00 on Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:38 am

    Two Su-34 crashed in the Far East

    While practicing the maneuvering, fighter-bombers in the air touched, the crews of the aircraft ejected.

    An accident in the air of two Su-34 fighter-bombers occurred in the Far East. According to the Russian Defense Ministry, on January 18, at 08:07 Moscow time, a touch of two Su-34 planes of the Far Eastern Air Force and Air Defense Force occurred in the air. The accident happened 35 kilometers from the coast during a scheduled training flight while practicing maneuvering over the Sea of ​​Japan.

    The defense department said that the crews of the aircraft had ejected. An An-12 aircraft and two Mi-8 helicopters of search and rescue forces were involved in the search for pilots in the ejection area .

    Aircraft performed the flight without ammunition

    The second pilot of the Su-34 fallen into the Sea of ​​Japan lifted aboard a helicopter

    The VVO helicopter pilots raised the second pilot of the crashed Su-34 on board, his condition is assessed as satisfactory.

    The helicopter pilots of the Eastern Military District discovered the second raft with the pilot of the crashed Su-34. From the first approach, the crew hovered above the raft and raised its board, the condition of the serviceman is satisfactory, the report of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation said.

    A little earlier, the helicopter of the search and rescue forces of the Eastern Military District was raised from a life raft of the first of the ejected pilots of the Su-34.


    Before that, the crew of the An-12 aircraft found a liferaft in the crash square. Later, the crew of the Mi-8 search and rescue helicopter visually confirmed that it was the pilot of the crashed aircraft, which gave light signals. In the shortest possible time he was raised on board .


    I think both pilots are safe.
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    Post  ult on Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:09 am

    Not two, but one. One Su-34 managed to land safely.

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