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    Prigozhin mutiny thread

    PapaDragon
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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Jun 27, 2023 4:31 am

    sepheronx wrote:His lying won't stop, and Luka is gonna have a problem on his hands.

    He flat out admits that he ordered murder of Russian pilots and that his goons killed them

    And they all got away with everything

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    Post  TMA1 Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:06 am

    There is much we ro not know, and that concerns me most. I am wondering if Russian intelligence agencies had factions and traitors in the midst of this.

    PD your hard realism is often an anecdote to myopathy but that said I frankly could not imagine who at all would think it is a good idea to try and coup your own nation when you are in an existential crisis with the west near unto ww3. Russia is in the right in this conflict. Prigozhin ordering the murder of thr pilots, and openly supporting the pro Ukraine narrative show he needs to be held to account. Any Russians supporting Wagner or Prigozhin or Ukraine are pretty scummy or just mentally retarded. Nobody should be a traitor to their own country.

    But I fear that there are larger factions at play. I read recently there were wagner flags waving in tel aviv and there could be a mossad connection. Has anyone heard rumors of Russian domestic or international intelligence agencies having connections to this attempted coup?

    It is so hard to get solid, unbiased info in theee times. You either have nafo tier idiots and neocon/neolib worshipers, or you got Russian doomers posting as they usually post. Even lately those supporting Russia have blinded themselves to the extreme danger of Prigozhin and other factions at play.

    I am very concerned. The western world is playing with nuclear fire. Heard some insanely deluded neocons saying we must invade Russia to guard their nukes and regime change Russia. How in the hell would any ruskies support wagner or the west in this?

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    Post  sepheronx Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:17 am

    That is the kicker. Now that Prigohzin was let go free after what he did, the west see Russia as extremely weak and they may actually do indeed try something stupid like a full on invasion. Now I doubt this will happen because there are indeed people who may feel they can take on Russia directly, but they cannot exactly and I do think most realize this. But for sure NATO will continue to work double time in funding and working with opposition in the country to really push for something else.

    What we saw was only 1 part of it. They plan more and harder. Prigozhin needs to be arrested, and he needs to spill the beans.

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:18 am

    There is a window for when a coup is dissipated before it achieves damage even if it fails. This coup failed in less than 24 hours and
    so failed to deliver for the NATzO clowns who organized it. The psyop theory is BS since it cannot come up with any returns on the
    "investment". The Russian government did not need a psyop to redeploy Wagner to Belorus. The idea that it needed one is retarded.

    I would not call any attempt to extract maximum exposure of coup collaborators a psyop. It is a dynamic response and indicates that
    the Russian government is on the ball. NATzO was expecting

    1) Disgruntled parts of the Russian army to join in. That is why Prigozhin sent the convoy to Moscow.

    2) Putin to react like an insecure clown with a brutal response.

    Both failed utterly. So we have the clowns in Washington openly bemoaning the lack of bloodshed. The damage to Russia from this
    coup attempt is minimal. This includes the global south response. They have no evidence of Putin's weakness and I am sure they
    understand that NATzO is a regime change hyena pack. Each one of them can expect to see gross meddling and has seen it.

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:24 am

    sepheronx wrote:That is the kicker.  Now that Prigohzin was let go free after what he did, the west see Russia as extremely weak and they may actually do indeed try something stupid like a full on invasion.  Now I doubt this will happen because there are indeed people who may feel they can take on Russia directly, but they cannot exactly and I do think most realize this.  But for sure NATO will continue to work double time in funding and working with opposition in the country to really push for something else.

    What we saw was only 1 part of it.  They plan more and harder.  Prigozhin needs to be arrested, and he needs to spill the beans.

    The analysis I have seen argues

    1) A trial of Prigozhin now is a bad distraction given the proxy war with NATzO.

    2) Prigozhin's treatment likely reflects an attempt to secure the men under him. Throwing the book at Prigozhin would involve
    resentment by Wagner soldiers. Having them sign contracts with the Russian military is a priority and before this coup nearly
    none of them wanted to sign such contracts.

    3) Prigozhin is isolated himself from Russian society. Even his fans now reject him. So his exile is not fake where it matters.
    He is no longer a threat to Russia and it is highly likely that NATzO will try to off him and blame Putin.

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    Post  GarryB Tue Jun 27, 2023 7:40 am

    US intelligence officials knew well in advance that Wagner head Yevgeny Prigozhin was planning to mount an armed rebellion against the Russian military's top commanders

    But did they?

    You'd think they would have fully supported it if they did... which they didn't really.

    I am not reading most of the stuff in this thread... most of it is wild speculation and conjecture, which is fine if you are in to that sort of shit... just remember some idiots calling for blood to not go too far please.

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    Post  franco Tue Jun 27, 2023 11:33 am

    The Ministry of Defense of Russia reported on the preparation of the transfer of heavy military equipment of PMC "Wagner" to the units of the RF Armed Forces.

    The corresponding message was published in the Telegram channel of the Russian military department.

    “Preparations are underway for the transfer of heavy military equipment to the active units of the Russian Armed Forces,” the Russian Defense Ministry said in a publication.

    Today, the Federal Security Service of Russia reported that the case of the armed rebellion was closed on Tuesday, June 27.

    The day before, on June 26, the head of state Vladimir Putin, during an appeal to the Russians, suggested that the Wagner fighters conclude a contract with the Russian Ministry of Defense or return to their families.

    https://tvzvezda-ru.translate.goog/news/20236271132-D9PnZ.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-GB&_x_tr_pto=nui&_x_tr_hist=true

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    franco
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    Post  franco Tue Jun 27, 2023 11:42 am

    Something to remember here is that the Wagner group are paid mercenaries... who is paying them now that their contract with the Russian MoD is over? That was one of the points behind all of this "mutiny" was to get a new contract, however the decision of the Russian authorities was to go in another direction and bring all volunteers under the command and control of the government (MoD). Their heavy equipment goes back to the MoD, some go to Belarus to be paid for by?? (Belarus officially but Russia covers). The others go under the MoD or go home.
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    Post  Kiko Tue Jun 27, 2023 1:37 pm

    Russian Guard will receive heavy weapons and tanks, 06.27.2023.

    Zolotov: Russian Guard will receive heavy weapons and tanks, this issue was discussed with Putin.

    MOSCOW, June 27 - RIA Novosti. The National Guard will receive heavy weapons and tanks, said the head of the department, Viktor Zolotov, after the speech of the head of state on the Cathedral Square of the Kremlin."

    “This issue is now very acute. We are raising the issue that during the Chechen campaign we had tanks, and now<...> we don’t have tanks. We will introduce this into the troops,” said the head services.

    According to him, this issue was discussed with Russian President Vladimir Putin . The timing of the delivery of military vehicles and heavy weapons of the National Guard will depend on funding.
    Zolotov also noted that the fighters of the Russian Guard worked competently during an attempted armed rebellion over the weekend. To prevent bloodshed, the department interacted with the FSB , the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the Ministry of Emergency Situations.

    https://ria.ru/20230627/rosgvardiya-1880695476.html

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    Post  JohninMK Tue Jun 27, 2023 1:58 pm

    OSINTdefender
    @sentdefender
    ·
    6h

    A Embraer Legacy 600 with the Registration “RA-02795” which is reportedly a Business Jet used by Wagner PMC Leader, Yevgeny Prigozhin has landed at Machulishchy Air Force Base to the South of Minsk, Belarus after Taking-Off from an Air Field in the Rostov Region of Southwestern Russia.

    OSINTdefender
    @sentdefender

    Russian Sources including Rybar reported earlier today that Columns of Wagner PMC Personnel and Equipment including Tanks and BTRs had begun to enter the Belarusian Region of Mogilev from the Territory of Russia to the East, so far there has been No Visual Evidence of the Columns, but it is likely True considering the Information that came out today regarding the Network of Wagner Camps being planned in Eastern and Southern Belarus and also that it’s now known Prigozhin is in the Country.

    Dmitry Poletayev 🇺🇦🇺🇸
    @d_poletayev
    ·
    3h
    Several claims like these have not been independently verified by sources on the ground. You need to balance Russian sources with local sources

    Samuel Earp
    @przgwxl
    ·
    2h
    With or without equipment, I wonder why Lukashenka accepted large bands of unemployed Russian mercenaries. Can't end well for him.

    stoicfaux
    @stoicfaux
    ·
    1h
    Follow the money. Does Wagner have a new contract and with whom?

    They don't fight for free.

    George_O
    @GeorgeO241169
    ·
    2h
    Subscribed
    I don't believe anything in genocidal Russians and neither in a group of mercenaries. How comfortable a country lets in a group of soldiers who answer to no one except themselves,with tanks and BTRs. All this was a pantomime to distract and then threaten Ukraine with a new front

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    Post  kvs Tue Jun 27, 2023 2:11 pm

    GarryB wrote:
    US intelligence officials knew well in advance that Wagner head Yevgeny Prigozhin was planning to mount an armed rebellion against the Russian military's top commanders

    But did they?

    You'd think they would have fully supported it if they did... which they didn't really.

    The NATzO fake stream media and social media influencers were out in force supporting Prigozhin. Do you mean NATzO should have offered military assistance?
    That is not realistic considering nuclear war outcomes. This was a real coup attempt organized by NATzO. Prigozhin was even parroting NATzO revisionist
    propaganda talking points like a good little poodle. If he was some genuine rebel who loved Russia he would not be doing this and he would also not set up
    a coup based a on stream of lies.

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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Jun 27, 2023 3:13 pm

    kvs wrote:There is a window for when a coup is dissipated before it achieves damage even if it fails. This coup failed in less than 24 hours...

    It was Russia who failed the moment they allowed this thing to even be attempted

    Now they are polluting ther military with disloyal treasonous terrorist criminals which will have even worse results than allowing convicts to carry firearms



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    franco
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    Post  franco Tue Jun 27, 2023 3:31 pm

    PapaDragon wrote:
    kvs wrote:There is a window for when a coup is dissipated before it achieves damage even if it fails.   This coup failed in less than 24 hours...

    It was Russia who failed the moment they allowed this thing to even be attempted

    Now they are polluting ther military with disloyal treasonous terrorist criminals which will have even worse results than allowing convicts to carry firearms




    So how many actually participated in this little charade... sources say there are 25,000 Wagner but it appears only 10-20% actually were involved. And a lot of them did so under false information with about half returning to their rear bases once they actually saw what was going on.

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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Tue Jun 27, 2023 3:35 pm

    Maybe the issue of Bielorussia is that they gave him the possibility to pay with his blood and the blood of some of the more hardcore (and anti ministry of defence) of the wagnerites in order to open a new front in the north of Ukraine.

    If they survive, Russia will think what to do about them at another time, but that means also that they were able to distract Ukrainian forces for  a long time, possibly easing the operations to retake slaviansk and Kramatorsk (or even Kharkov).

    If they don't, problem solved, and at least Ukraine would have had to concentrate on different fronts for a while.

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    GunshipDemocracy
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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Tue Jun 27, 2023 4:50 pm

    Rodion_Romanovic wrote:Maybe the issue of Bielorussia is that they gave him the possibility to pay with his blood and the blood of some of the more hardcore (and anti ministry of defence) of the wagnerites in order to open a new front in the north of Ukraine.

    If they survive, Russia will think what to do about them at another time, but that means also that they were able to distract Ukrainian forces for  a long time, possibly easing the operations to retake slaviansk and Kramatorsk (or even Kharkov).

    If they don't, problem solved, and at least Ukraine would have had to concentrate on different fronts for a while.

    sounds very plausible to me, however IMHO there is yet another reason: Poland, Lithuania trained mercenaries/saboteurs for coup in Belorussia.  So Belorussia is not quite accidental location.  Not to mention Africa,/Middle east needs Russian PMC too to protect interests.

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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:01 pm

    kvs wrote:There is a window for when a coup is dissipated before it achieves damage even if it fails.   This coup failed in less than 24 hours and
    so failed to deliver for the NATzO clowns who organized it.   The psyop theory is BS since it cannot come up with any returns on the
    "investment".   The Russian government did not need a psyop to redeploy Wagner to Belorus.   The idea that it needed one is retarded.  

    Talking about windows:

    " former CIA director General David Petraeus. "    []  "David told the Times: "Prigozhin kept his life but lost his Wagner Group and he should be very careful around open windows in his new surroundings in Belarus, where he's going."



    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/wagner-chief-warned-be-very-30327645

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    Post  kvs Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:07 pm



    Larry Johnson needs to fix his internet link or his computer software. Every single interview he gives has transmission issues.

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    Post  Kiko Tue Jun 27, 2023 6:55 pm

    When the Lightning of History Strikes, Better Cut to the Chase in Our First Draft, by Pepe Escobar for Strategic Culture Foundation. 06.27.2023.

    When the lightning of History strikes, better cut to the chase in our first draft.

    Here we go.

    After the extraordinary events in Russia during The Longest Day, President Putin wins on all counts.

    Among other feats, he has made an absolute, inter-galactic ass of the whole collective West MSM – all over again.

    He rallied virtually every Russian to end the Special Military Operation (SMO) – or “almost war” (according to some business circles) quicker.

    He – and the FSB – amassed a formidable list of traitors and 5th and 6th columnists, which will be properly dealt with.

    And he now enjoys unlimited freedom to deploy de facto Counter-Terrorist Operation (CTO) martial law powers.

    As much as Putin helped perennial Lukashenko in August 2020, preventing regime change in Belarus, good ol’ Luka prevented Russia from sliding into civil war in June 2023.

    A complex wide-ranging counter-terror op is now in effect in Moscow and beyond, while assorted Western sub-zoology specimens are stunned, dazed and confused: wasn’t that supposed to be Putin meeting his Czar Nicholas II moment?

    A first glance at the chessboard tells us that all the pieces seem to be falling in their right places.

    Prighozin gets a golden parachute in Belarus. Shoigu may be about to be sacked, perhaps even Gerasimov (yes, there are deeply dysfunctional layers inside the Ministry of Defense). The Wagner musicians will be incorporated as a regular Army Corps. They may keep doing business in Africa: demand is huge.

    So what really happened after The Longest Day? Hefty CIA funds may have changed hands. But in the end the “coup” could turn out to be the Greatest Russian Trolling of the West Ever.

    The Mother of All Maskirovkas

    Once again, facts on the ground prove Putin is the undisputed champion of Russia. After keeping a strategic silence for a few hours, his intervention gathered full support from the civilian population, the FSB, the Chechens, the Army, the Communists, everyone.

    The exact terms of the deal between Luka and Prighozin, with help from the governor of the Tula region, Alexey Dyumin, are still unclear.

    Prighozin said he was satisfied with the terms. Peskov confirmed on the record that a criminal case against Prigozhin would be dropped. A key Prighozin demand was the twin resignation of Defense Minister Shoigu and Chief of Staff Gerasimov. That may – or may not – happen in the immediate future.

    And that brings us to the still fascinating possibility this was the Mother of All Maskirovkas. Prigozhin sets up all this circus just to get a meeting in Moscow with Shoigu and Gerasimov.

    Talk about an overkill just to go out on a date.

    The Mother of All Maskirovkas scenario also implies a move worthy of 5D chess.

    On Saturday, Wagner was 200 km away from Moscow.

    Yet on Sunday, Wagner was 100 km away from Kiev.

    Next level Sun Tzu Art of War, anyone?

    Between sovereignty and betrayal

    Alexander Dugin correctly points out how this was also an exercise in Sovereignty: “Only Sovereign Lukashenko, together with Sovereign Putin himself, confronted [Prighozin]…It turned out that many can frame the President and the people, acting in the shadows and apparently on his behalf, but saving the Fatherland in a critical situation is not their specialty.”

    The corollary is that Russia needs “a sovereign elite, otherwise everything will repeat itself.”

    As for the dazed and confused collective West, especially the NATO-Kiev junta, with everyone instantly rebranding Wagner from “terrorists” to “freedom fighters”, getting bogged down in their own swamp is the art they excel in.

    Mainstream media spun that the proverbial “Western officials” were “taken by surprise” by the mutiny. That depends on the amount of funds that changed hands, and in which direction, during the preparation.

    The SMO, now CTO keeps rolling along. The Russian Army continues to fight, undisturbed. The “counter-offensive” remains teetering over the edge of a cliff, ready to kiss the black void.

    Putin winning on all counts implies the whole civilian population – and the military – engaged into preserving him and the Russian institutions, as well as perfecting them. There’s absolutely no nation anywhere across the collective West where we find this level of citizen support.

    Russian politics is a special animal. It works at the highest level and also at grassroots level – unlike in the West, where the norm is deep hatred between the elites and the people.

    Of course it should always be stressed it’s the less patriotic Russian oligarchs who run away every time something approaching The Longest Day takes place.

    For a few hours, the West was betting heavily on the dismemberment of Russia. Not now. And not in the foreseeable future.

    The succession is already being prepared, by Team Putin and selected patriotic oligarchs. Among the contenders, there’s a secret name that will stun everyone when it pops up. He’s still invisible in terms of public opinion, and works in the shadows. His name should remain secret for the time being.

    As it stands, what matters is that Russia as whole emerged even stronger out of The Longest Day. The man and woman in the street showed himself and herself, once again, as a true patriot, ready to defend the Motherland whatever it takes.

    There was no confrontation between those who are pro-Russian institutions and those who are pro-Wagner. People actually support both. People regarded Wagner like the “polite green men” who helped to peacefully retake Crimea in 2014. Facing them, there was not a single policeman or military.

    So Putin is stronger than ever. But everyone should always keep this in mind: the one thing he can’t forgive is betrayal.

    https://www.unz.com/pescobar/when-the-lightning-of-history-strikes-better-cut-to-the-chase-in-our-first-draft/

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    Post  PapaDragon Tue Jun 27, 2023 9:07 pm



    Jesus Christ, the cope is fùcking insane...


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    Post  kvs Tue Jun 27, 2023 9:11 pm



    The f*cking yanquis are in a frenzy trying to deny they orchestrated the coup attempt.   Putin should tell them to go and jump in a toxic lake.
    The amount of open support for Prigozhin and his NATzO narratives agenda proves he is a NATzO aka Washington stooge.  

    I still think that Putin is way too soft on this clown.   The alleged 8,000 Wagner soldiers (not officers) who sided with him can all go and get f*cked.

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    Post  kvs Tue Jun 27, 2023 9:43 pm



    Russian "turbo-patriots" are retards. They are clearly useful idiots who are grossly incompetent and are Dunning-Kruger experts.
    Shoigu has been central to cleaning up the Russian military from the rot going back to the 1990s and earlier. That is why Russia
    can be effective in Ukria. But these Prigozhin-lover faggots think they are the real experts and want some clown like Prigozhin to
    make the decisions.

    Thankfully these retards don't have the critical mass to determine Russia's path.

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    Post  GarryB Wed Jun 28, 2023 4:04 am

    The NATzO fake stream media and social media influencers were out in force supporting Prigozhin. Do you mean NATzO should have offered military assistance?

    Western intel was seriously burned by not seeing lots of things before they happened and getting caught with their pants down... from Saddams invasion of Kuwaite through 11/9 and all sorts of other events...

    Did the west offer support... of course they did but I don't think they knew what was happening till it started happening, but if you say they did have advanced warning then that would suggest they have people inside Wagner, which is rather disturbing.

    Of course Prigozhin is a billionaire... so it should be relatively easy to put pressure on him... the west puts pressure on rich people all the time.

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    Post  Backman Wed Jun 28, 2023 5:42 am

    kvs wrote:

    Russian "turbo-patriots" are retards.   They are clearly useful idiots who are grossly incompetent and are Dunning-Kruger experts.
    Shoigu has been central to cleaning up the Russian military from the rot going back to the 1990s and earlier.   That is why Russia
    can be effective in Ukria.   But these Prigozhin-lover faggots think they are the real experts and want some clown like Prigozhin to
    make the decisions.

    Thankfully these retards don't have the critical mass to determine Russia's path.


    Shoigu was cleaning up corruption and also making life better for soldiers. He is a soldiers defense minister. The guy before him was a cost cutting bean counting bureaucrat that didn't give a damn about soldiers quality of life. Which was fine for that time. But when Shoigu came in, the MOD started investing in soldiers amenities. Better living quarters, better gyms better food, everything like this was improved.

    These 6th columnist Telegram faggots get their Shoigu corruption talking points from Navalny. All we hear about is his youngest daughter (never about the eldest who works for the military) and some alleged big house somewhere. Vintage Navalny tactics.

    Even Russians with Attitude is lapping this crap up. The English speaking Russian media scape is beyond hopeless.

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    Backman
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    Post  Backman Wed Jun 28, 2023 5:42 am

    Why was there no persistent narrative about Prigozins corruption ? His kids. His big houses. His shady deals. I suspect because the CIA wasn't seeding narratives against him. But they were against Shoigu and Garisimov.

    Prigozhin mutiny thread - Page 21 ENxR1cdg_o

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    Post  kvs Wed Jun 28, 2023 5:56 am

    Their hope was to have a snowball effect. The whole purpose of the convoy to Moscow was to give a chance for malcontent army
    units to join in. It was also a bait for a hard response from Putin that would set up an armed confrontation. The shooting down
    of the airplane and helicopters was an outright attempt to trigger such a confrontation. (I do not think Putin ordered any
    attack on the column so I doubt any of the aircraft shot down were attacking. The number of helicopters is likely being exaggerated.)

    The 1917 revolution involved "Bloody Sunday" where a protest stampede resulted in the deaths of people which helped bootstrap
    the overthrow process. Washington wanted to bootstrap a crisis in Russia by using Prigozhin as a trigger. It assumed that there
    was pool of malcontent gasoline ready to go off. Washington's assumptions are based on wishful thinking and drinking own propaganda
    koolaid.

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