Russia Defence Forum

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Military Forum for Russian and Global Defence Issues


+67
PhSt
Ned86
AMCXXL
Kiko
TMA1
lyle6
caveat emptor
SeigSoloyvov
Rodion_Romanovic
ahmedfire
Krepost
Big_Gazza
billybatts91
JohninMK
thegopnik
dionis
Odin of Ossetia
lancelot
T-47
mr_hd
Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E
d_taddei2
LMFS
Hannibal Barca
Arsenic
Godric
franco
Eugenio Argentina
bandit6
Tolstoy
crod
Arrow
Werewolf
Airbornewolf
nomadski
George1
Mir
limb
flamming_python
Isos
ArgentinaGuard
Karl Haushofer
par far
GarryB
Lapain
Serberus
mnztr
AlfaT8
xeno
Erk
PapaDragon
Rasisuki Nebia
zorobabel
ucmvulcan
Sprut-B
Scorpius
kvs
GunshipDemocracy
Stealthflanker
sepheronx
Podlodka77
Hole
Firebird
Regular
ALAMO
Arkanghelsk
Backman
71 posters

    Prigozhin mutiny thread

    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 9163
    Points : 9225
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Prigozhin mutiny thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Prigozhin mutiny thread

    Post  flamming_python Sat Jun 24, 2023 2:17 pm

    sepheronx wrote:In any case, the positions Russia set up in Moscow is pathetic.

    And all Russian media is repeating same shit over and over again how Ukraine is gonna take this opportunity. Literally, they quote everyone including someone's grandma about it.

    I'm honestly surprised by all this

    Edit: im with some people here who are extremely concerned but also curious as to why the authorities aren't actually acting.  Rybar said the same thing. Others said same thing. Lack of a real response.

    You've made your point numerous times. You are disappointed by the preparations the Russian military and law enforcement agencies are making in response to a rebellion Russian intelligence agencies organized. Yeah we get it, no need to repeat the same thing every few posts.

    And I very much do hope Ukraine takes every opportunity. I remember how many of you fellows were crying into the pillow about Russia not taking offensive actions and just waiting around making itself a target for Ukrainian offensives. My view then that the more Ukrainian offensives, the better and when said offensive did begin, it indeed turned out delightfully. Long may it continue.
    Although, once again, I really don't see the international damage as worth it.

    sepheronx, GarryB, zardof, Sprut-B, Eugenio Argentina, Mir, Belisarius and Podlodka77 like this post

    sepheronx
    sepheronx


    Posts : 8621
    Points : 8883
    Join date : 2009-08-05
    Age : 34
    Location : Canada

    Prigozhin mutiny thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Prigozhin mutiny thread

    Post  sepheronx Sat Jun 24, 2023 2:18 pm

    ⚡⚡⚡ Message from the press service of the President of the Republic of Belarus.

    This morning, Russian President Vladimir Putin briefed his Belarusian counterpart on the situation in southern Russia with the private military company Wagner. The heads of state agreed on joint actions.
    As a follow-up to the agreements, the President of Belarus, having additionally specified the situation through his own channels, and in agreement with the President of Russia, held talks with the head of Wagner PMC Yevgeny Prigozhin.
    Negotiations continued throughout the day. As a result, they came to agreements on the inadmissibility of unleashing a bloody massacre on the territory of Russia. Yevgeny Prigozhin accepted the proposal of the President of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko to stop the movement of armed persons of the Wagner company on the territory of Russia and take further steps to de-escalate tensions.
    At the moment, an absolutely profitable and acceptable option for solving the situation is on the table, with security guarantees for the Wagner PMC fighters.
    As previously reported, also during today, the President of Belarus held two meetings with the power bloc of the country on this situation.

    This is from Rybar.

    https://t.me/rybar/48969

    So this is why there was no tough response, Lukashenko was negotiating with Prigohzin to get him to stop his tantrum.

    GarryB, Regular, d_taddei2, zardof, Sprut-B, Mir, Belisarius and Arsenic like this post

    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 9163
    Points : 9225
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Prigozhin mutiny thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Prigozhin mutiny thread

    Post  flamming_python Sat Jun 24, 2023 2:21 pm

    But there is one thing about this "putsch" that is weird. For months we hear that the wet dream of the west is a insurrection or uprising in Russia to "win" the war
    in 404. In the minute Russia is beating the shit out of western trained and equipped units in the great "counter-offensive" it is happening. With an advance warning
    of maybe a day following more online rants of the cook. Which brings me to the question, did the authorities in Moscow let it happen to see who was willing to go
    along with the putsch?

    I don't smell NATO's Belarussian rats and the rest of the Russian ones slithering out into the light just yet. NATO is smarter than Moscow gives it credit for. So unfortunately this charade may continue for a while yet, with unpredictable consequences for Russia's political standing, and in the end there may be nothing to show for it all but a carefully choreographed multi-day embarrassment if the bait isn't taken.
    Hole
    Hole


    Posts : 10933
    Points : 10911
    Join date : 2018-03-24
    Age : 48
    Location : Scholzistan

    Prigozhin mutiny thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Prigozhin mutiny thread

    Post  Hole Sat Jun 24, 2023 2:25 pm

    Most of these belarussian rats are known figures. The lack of a tough reponse could be to give the FSB time to take notes
    which official sides with the putsch. Or to see if some of the western controlled rat lines are activated.

    Remember the turkish putsch. Some of it was real, mainly the aircraft from the american controlled airfield trying to kill
    Erdogan, but a lot was done to bring the Güllen supporters out in the open to get rid of them.


    Last edited by Hole on Sat Jun 24, 2023 2:27 pm; edited 1 time in total

    GarryB likes this post

    avatar
    par far


    Posts : 3488
    Points : 3733
    Join date : 2014-06-26

    Prigozhin mutiny thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Prigozhin mutiny thread

    Post  par far Sat Jun 24, 2023 2:26 pm

    sepheronx wrote:⚡⚡⚡ Message from the press service of the President of the Republic of Belarus.

    This morning, Russian President Vladimir Putin briefed his Belarusian counterpart on the situation in southern Russia with the private military company Wagner. The heads of state agreed on joint actions.
    As a follow-up to the agreements, the President of Belarus, having additionally specified the situation through his own channels, and in agreement with the President of Russia, held talks with the head of Wagner PMC Yevgeny Prigozhin.
    Negotiations continued throughout the day. As a result, they came to agreements on the inadmissibility of unleashing a bloody massacre on the territory of Russia. Yevgeny Prigozhin accepted the proposal of the President of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko to stop the movement of armed persons of the Wagner company on the territory of Russia and take further steps to de-escalate tensions.
    At the moment, an absolutely profitable and acceptable option for solving the situation is on the table, with security guarantees for the Wagner PMC fighters.
    As previously reported, also during today, the President of Belarus held two meetings with the power bloc of the country on this situation.

    This is from Rybar.

    https://t.me/rybar/48969

    So this is why there was no tough response, Lukashenko was negotiating with Prigohzin to get him to stop his tantrum.


    Is it right/fair to say, that when Prigozhin, reailized he had fucked up and wanted a way out. Lukashenko was bought in as a mediator?

    Anyway you cut it, Prigozhin needs to tried for treason.

    sepheronx, GarryB, Sprut-B, Hole and Backman like this post

    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 9163
    Points : 9225
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Prigozhin mutiny thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Prigozhin mutiny thread

    Post  flamming_python Sat Jun 24, 2023 2:27 pm

    Hole wrote:Most of these belarussian rats are known figures. The lack of a tough reponse could be to give the FSB time to take notes
    which official sides with the putsch. Or to see if some of the western controlled rat lines are activated.

    My prediction unfortunately is that NATO won't fall for it. Although they will be more than happy to take advantage of the propaganda points and capitalize on Russia's self-inflicted international wounds.

    In which case it would amount to an utter failure of an operation on the part of Russian intelligence and would be grounds for some cleaning house indeed. Not of Prigozhin mind you, he performed his duties superbly. Wasted effort though, all his tantrums and drama over the past half a year.
    Airbornewolf
    Airbornewolf


    Posts : 1504
    Points : 1570
    Join date : 2014-02-05
    Location : https://odysee.com/@airbornewolf:8

    Prigozhin mutiny thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Prigozhin mutiny thread

    Post  Airbornewolf Sat Jun 24, 2023 2:28 pm

    flamming_python wrote:
    This is why half of Russia's population is just bemused or at best a little dumbfounded. Because we understand the general dynamics of our own country and our political system, elites and so on at least on an intuitive level if not academically.

    Foreigners don't, hence why they're all running around like headless chickens and proclaiming civil war in Russia, or a 'power shift', or whatever.

    First off, it is best not to stick out your hand trough the bars to one of Alamo's zoo exhibit's Flamming Wink

    --

    And with all respect, But this is a bit more than some political tomfoolery.

    my personal opinion what i find unacceptable, is that RF fixed wing and rotary aircraft are shot out of the sky by Wagner forces inside Russia with KIA's as result. Casualty's among ground forces are unknown to me at this time.

    They might be not the full part of Wagner forces, but certainly a part of Wagner forces have no issue to go willingly into armed engagement with RF forces.
    Outside of them killing RF servicemen, they are aiding the Ukrainian/NATO interests in this manner.

    I respect the sacrifices by the Wagner forces in Ukraine. And i would never disgrace their work they have done in Ukraine.
    I still do not think all of Wagner supports this, the most intense engagements where very localized up to this point.

    regardless, this is treason to the highest degree.
    And needs be dealt with accordingly.

    The reasons Prigozhin mentions as frustration are bullshit.
    He's not alone on this world, and Russia is fighting an war with NATO.
    Resources are always in high demand, and some sectors take priority over other's.
    Battlefield priority's shift.
    And it includes unpopular decisions for the greater picture.

    ...and yes, other units get priority at times for resources.
    That is an war against NATO and their allies.
    They funnel everything in they can.
    Anyone thinks that Russia is going to have an easy time?.

    If Prigozhin can not understand that bigger picture. it is his problem.
    He chose to take up armed rebellion and kill RF servicemen, So he is from now on an enemy to Russia.


    Last edited by Airbornewolf on Sat Jun 24, 2023 2:30 pm; edited 1 time in total

    sepheronx, d_taddei2, Hole and Belisarius like this post

    avatar
    T-47


    Posts : 263
    Points : 261
    Join date : 2017-07-17
    Location : Planet Earth

    Prigozhin mutiny thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Prigozhin mutiny thread

    Post  T-47 Sat Jun 24, 2023 2:32 pm

    To the coup experts here, why is there movement of so many AD trucks towards the border?
    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 9163
    Points : 9225
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Prigozhin mutiny thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Prigozhin mutiny thread

    Post  flamming_python Sat Jun 24, 2023 2:32 pm

    Airbornewolf wrote:First off, it is best not to stick out your hand trough the bars to one of Alamo's zoo exhibit's Flamming Wink

    --

    And with all respect, But this is a bit more than some political tomfoolery.

    my personal opinion what i find unacceptable, is that RF fixed wing and rotary aircraft are shot out of the sky by Wagner forces inside Russia with KIA's as result. Casualty's among ground forces are unknown to me at this time.

    They might be not the full part of Wagner forces, but certainly a part of Wagner forces have no issue to go willingly into armed engagement with RF forces.
    Outside of them killing RF servicemen, they are aiding the Ukrainian/NATO interests in this manner.

    I respect the sacrifices by the Wagner forces in Ukraine. And i would never disgrace their work they have done in Ukraine.
    I still do not think all of Wagner supports this, the most intense engagements where very localized up to this point.

    regardless, this is treason to the highest degree.
    And needs be dealt with accordingly.

    The reasons Prigozhin mentions as frustration are bullshit.
    He's not alone on this world, and Russia is fighting an war with NATO.
    Resources are always in high demand, and some sectors take priority over other's.
    Battlefield priority's shift.
    And it includes unpopular decisions for the greater picture.

    ...and yes, other units get priority at times for resources.
    That is an war against NATO and their allies.
    They funnel everything in they can.
    Anyone thinks that Russia is going to have an easy time?.

    If Prigozhin can not understand that bigger picture. it is his problem.
    But he chose to take up armed rebellion and kill RF servicemen.
    His actions right now fall directly into the interests of NATO/Ukraine.

    Oh don't get me wrong Airbornewolf. If this really is a case of an armed rebellion during a time of undeclared war with NATO then that amounts to treason, Vlasovism and is grounds for summary execution of all involved from top to bottom and back to the top. And then some more executions just for good measure. Lots more. I could frankly care less who knew and didn't know what.

    All my discourse here though is predicated on the assumption that this is not a genuine rebellion and that no-one is really being shot-down.

    But I don't want to elaborate on this further as it only serve to give grounds to the version that the rebellion is genuine. Which as I've made clear is preposterous and nonsensical in Russia's context.


    Last edited by flamming_python on Sat Jun 24, 2023 2:54 pm; edited 4 times in total

    Airbornewolf and Hole like this post

    avatar
    par far


    Posts : 3488
    Points : 3733
    Join date : 2014-06-26

    Prigozhin mutiny thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Prigozhin mutiny thread

    Post  par far Sat Jun 24, 2023 2:33 pm

    Prigozhin just said that they are turning back and going to their bases.

    From Telegram.


    He also said they are going where they are needed, in Ukraine. This is what I made of a statement on Telegram.

    GarryB and d_taddei2 like this post

    zorobabel
    zorobabel


    Posts : 706
    Points : 704
    Join date : 2015-09-20

    Prigozhin mutiny thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Prigozhin mutiny thread

    Post  zorobabel Sat Jun 24, 2023 2:35 pm

    A deal has been reached? So Prigozhin gets to do this again the next time he is upset? Freaking closn show.

    sepheronx, Sprut-B, limb and lancelot like this post

    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 9163
    Points : 9225
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Prigozhin mutiny thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Prigozhin mutiny thread

    Post  flamming_python Sat Jun 24, 2023 2:36 pm

    zorobabel wrote:A deal has been reached? So Prigozhin gets to do this again the next time he is upset? Freaking closn show.

    Na they're just resetting him to open the jack in the box some other time, NATO didn't take the bait this time around.

    d_taddei2 likes this post

    avatar
    par far


    Posts : 3488
    Points : 3733
    Join date : 2014-06-26

    Prigozhin mutiny thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Prigozhin mutiny thread

    Post  par far Sat Jun 24, 2023 2:38 pm

    The armed forces of Ukraine has launched an offensive in the South, thinking the Russians were busy with Prigozhin.


    From Telegram.



    Sent Prigozhin personally to this front.

    Hole and Belisarius like this post

    avatar
    par far


    Posts : 3488
    Points : 3733
    Join date : 2014-06-26

    Prigozhin mutiny thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Prigozhin mutiny thread

    Post  par far Sat Jun 24, 2023 2:38 pm

    zorobabel wrote:A deal has been reached? So Prigozhin gets to do this again the next time he is upset? Freaking closn show.


    I don't know what to make of this, does anyone know?
    Isos
    Isos


    Posts : 11343
    Points : 11313
    Join date : 2015-11-06

    Prigozhin mutiny thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Prigozhin mutiny thread

    Post  Isos Sat Jun 24, 2023 2:39 pm

    Don't they have the Bolchoi for such drama ?

    Anyway...

    sepheronx, flamming_python, Regular, Rodion_Romanovic and Hole like this post

    Regular
    Regular


    Posts : 3872
    Points : 3846
    Join date : 2013-03-10
    Location : Ukrolovestan

    Prigozhin mutiny thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Prigozhin mutiny thread

    Post  Regular Sat Jun 24, 2023 2:40 pm

    “Party is over, bitches go home!”

    Columns are going back.
    avatar
    Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E


    Posts : 715
    Points : 731
    Join date : 2016-01-20

    Prigozhin mutiny thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Prigozhin mutiny thread

    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Sat Jun 24, 2023 2:41 pm

    Yes my master, I will end the action and return to the SOP. Well my student, everything is going exactly according to plan. The war will soon be won, we will have no mercy. Destroy them to the last man.

    Funny, Putin is actually reenacting Star Wars here and everything showed he's in full control. The army does exactly what he said, everyone is devoted to him, the people moved even closer to him and his way.

    What a show. Simply smart.
    Now the wimps can calm down again.

    If this really had been a dangerous coup, someone would have died... but it didn't. loool just awesome Star Wars in real time. NATO will laugh and then tremble.
    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 9163
    Points : 9225
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Prigozhin mutiny thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Prigozhin mutiny thread

    Post  flamming_python Sat Jun 24, 2023 2:42 pm

    Yeah definately seems like a dud of an operation by the GRU or whatever genius. Well schmucks I hope making Russia into a laughing stock was worth it.

    d_taddei2 likes this post

    Regular
    Regular


    Posts : 3872
    Points : 3846
    Join date : 2013-03-10
    Location : Ukrolovestan

    Prigozhin mutiny thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Prigozhin mutiny thread

    Post  Regular Sat Jun 24, 2023 2:42 pm

    Isos wrote:Don't they have the Bolchoi for such drama ?

    Anyway...

    Telenovela presenta…

    So what will happen now? Wagner will be absorbed by MOD, there will be personnel changes, Prigozhin will retire? 

    Ru Gov could make a statement just to clear the muddy water
    lancelot
    lancelot


    Posts : 2744
    Points : 2742
    Join date : 2020-10-17

    Prigozhin mutiny thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Prigozhin mutiny thread

    Post  lancelot Sat Jun 24, 2023 2:45 pm

    Hole wrote:I´m really shocked that there are people out there (and inside Russia) that think that this guy could be a better military planner than Stoneface Gerasimov.
    Seriously?  Rolling Eyes

    The critic on Shoigu and Gerasimov is founded on some dumbasses on Telegram channels that have no clue about the military outside of "tank shots, things explode!!!"
    Shoigu is the reason why Russia is capable of going to war (currently indirectly) with the whole of NATO. According to western experts the GPD of NATO countries is
    20 times as large as that of Russia, but Russia produces more shells in a week than all of NATO in one month. Or even more.
    I have to say I agree. Shoigu is the main reason why the Russians went into his conflict with an army that was leagues better materially prepared than it was in any of the other conflict in the last two decades. Sure there were shortcomings, but that happens in any conflict, especially one of this magnitude.
    One good example of it is the purchases of R-77-1 and R-37M. After decades of the Air Force not having proper air to air missiles. Another example is the huge amounts of cruise missiles and artillery ammo available. Even the tank upgrade program can be considered to be a success, since they managed to get like 5 modernized tanks for the price a single T-14 would have cost. When you have to cover a wide frontage like in Ukraine, numbers matter.

    As for Gerasimov, regardless of whatever you might thing his shortcomings are, he is the most fit to command a ground offensive right now.

    sepheronx, GarryB, flamming_python, d_taddei2, par far, kvs, JohninMK and like this post

    sepheronx
    sepheronx


    Posts : 8621
    Points : 8883
    Join date : 2009-08-05
    Age : 34
    Location : Canada

    Prigozhin mutiny thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Prigozhin mutiny thread

    Post  sepheronx Sat Jun 24, 2023 2:48 pm

    Regular wrote:“Party is over, bitches go home!”

    Columns are going back.

    Prigozhin mutiny thread - Page 12 1657232207851

    flamming_python, Regular, VARGR198, Hole and Podlodka77 like this post

    avatar
    par far


    Posts : 3488
    Points : 3733
    Join date : 2014-06-26

    Prigozhin mutiny thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Prigozhin mutiny thread

    Post  par far Sat Jun 24, 2023 2:53 pm

    flamming_python wrote:Yeah definately seems like a dud of an operation by the GRU or whatever genius. Well schmucks I hope making Russia into a laughing stock was worth it.

    I don't think this was an GRU operation but we will see, when fog lifts.

    Odin of Ossetia likes this post

    ucmvulcan
    ucmvulcan


    Posts : 1191
    Points : 1191
    Join date : 2022-02-26

    Prigozhin mutiny thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Prigozhin mutiny thread

    Post  ucmvulcan Sat Jun 24, 2023 2:54 pm

    sepheronx wrote:
    Regular wrote:“Party is over, bitches go home!”

    Columns are going back.

    Prigozhin mutiny thread - Page 12 1657232207851

    So wait, the whole thing is over? Am I reading this right? Yeah, you don't occupy a city and talk about an insurrection in time of war as doing so literally means placing your head on the chopping block as such behavior is treason. So if so, this was definitely something that they wanted people, especially in western governments and militaries and intel agencies, to see. The question is what is the game? What is the objective?

    par far likes this post

    flamming_python
    flamming_python


    Posts : 9163
    Points : 9225
    Join date : 2012-01-30

    Prigozhin mutiny thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Prigozhin mutiny thread

    Post  flamming_python Sat Jun 24, 2023 2:55 pm

    par far wrote:
    flamming_python wrote:Yeah definately seems like a dud of an operation by the GRU or whatever genius. Well schmucks I hope making Russia into a laughing stock was worth it.

    I don't think this was an GRU operation but we will see, when fog lifts.

    It was certainly someone's, and they fucked up big with this whole idea.
    sepheronx
    sepheronx


    Posts : 8621
    Points : 8883
    Join date : 2009-08-05
    Age : 34
    Location : Canada

    Prigozhin mutiny thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Prigozhin mutiny thread

    Post  sepheronx Sat Jun 24, 2023 2:56 pm

    flamming_python wrote:Yeah definately seems like a dud of an operation by the GRU or whatever genius. Well schmucks I hope making Russia into a laughing stock was worth it.

    And this is why I don't believe the shoot down claims of the helis. But if this was indeed a controlled operation from within the GRU, this is rather very bad.

    Sponsored content


    Prigozhin mutiny thread - Page 12 Empty Re: Prigozhin mutiny thread

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sat Jun 15, 2024 11:04 pm