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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #42

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO 19/05/23, 07:19 am

    Just an observation.
    I had a new squad of Ukrainian employees today.
    Three of them, all military age, all from the mid-Ukraine. Khmelnytsky and Krivy Rog, so areas not to be considered pro-Russian.
    No idea if that is something that slowly leaks into the minds, but their opinion differs from the last squad by some 180 deg.

    First of all, they have contested the casualties rate. When I asked 350k number, all commented that it is ... much more than that.
    The one from Krivy Rog, his family lives in some suburban area. There is not a single family down the road of a whole area who has not lost someone/know someone who perished.
    Comments about Cocainsky can't be repeated in civilized discussion Laughing
    The general idea about this whole mess is mindblowing.
    All of them acknowledge the fact, that Ukraine is gone already - the only question remains about the way it will cease.  
    Multiple questions about the real beneficiary of the situation were answered in the open.

    A sad observation, how a country has been stolen from a regular people by a bunch of thugs.
    Being robbed of your country - try to imagine that.

    Edit : last but not least, they haven't used a single bloody Ukrainian word for a whole day, speaking each other.
    Some professional stuff, they openly admitted that don't even know the name of a tool in Ukrainian, maybe it is even non-existent. They know the Russian name and Polish one.


    Last edited by ALAMO on 19/05/23, 07:38 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  JohninMK 19/05/23, 07:24 am

    Hey, this means the US needs to send some more to meet the financial targets. I wonder if the suppliers charged second hand gear at new prices and got caught, or its just another scam. Laughing Laughing

    War Monitor
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    ·
    3h
    ⚡Reuters: The Pentagon overvalued U.S. equipment it sent to Ukraine by around $3 billion, a Senate aide and a defense official said on Thursday, an error that opens up the possibility of more weapons being sent to Kyiv for its defense against Russian forces.

    Spriter
    @Spriter99880
    Kickbacks in the United States for the supply of military equipment to Ukraine are in the billions
    In the media space, this is called a “mistake” and “overpriced”: “The Pentagon overpriced the equipment sent to Ukraine by about $ 3 billion. This mistake was made in order to supply Kiev with weapons more than promised - Reuters”

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    Post  JohninMK 19/05/23, 07:41 am

    More stuff heading for the scrap heap.

    It really does look like politicians in NATO believe that their militaries have too much equipment, so no problem dumping it for a little, reducing, warm PR glow.

    Spriter
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    Norway, in close cooperation with the UK, will transfer 3 ARTHUR counter-battery radars and 8 M270 MLRS to the Armed Forces of Ukraine, follows from the release of the Norwegian government.Earlier, Norway has already transferred to Ukraine 3 M270 MLRS.

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    Post  Hole 19/05/23, 07:59 am

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #42 - Page 40 Fwbzpi10
    lol1

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    mnztr


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    Post  mnztr 19/05/23, 08:56 am

    Kiko wrote:In the US, they told what happened when the Patriot tried to intercept the "Dagger", 05.18.2023.

    MWM: Patriot lost 32 missiles while trying to intercept the "Dagger" in the sky over Kiev.

    MOSCOW, May 18 - RIA Novosti. The Patriot anti-aircraft system lost all 32 missiles while trying to shoot down the Russian hypersonic "Dagger", which destroyed the American air defence system, writes Military Watch Magazine.

    "Thirty-two Patriot missiles that targeted Kinzhal ballistic missiles failed. Their total launch cost was $96 million," the article says.

    The American air defense systems were left to protect the Ukrainian capital from major Russian strikes on critical infrastructure, since their degree of mobility is even less than that of the Soviet variants of the S-300 system . This did not allow the Patriot installations to be moved closer to the front to cover the troops, the publication notes.

    On the eve of the Russian Armed Forces, they launched a massive attack on the points of deployment of units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine , as well as on the places of storage of Western weapons, equipment and ammunition. In particular, the Kinzhal hypersonic missile hit the Patriot anti-aircraft complex in Kiev.

    https://ria.ru/20230518/popytka-1872761555.html


    This was the best field test the US could have hoped for. They prob knew it would fail, but the prob collected some good data
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    Post  PapaDragon 19/05/23, 09:20 am

    ALAMO wrote:Just an observation.
    I had a new squad of Ukrainian employees today.
    Three of them, all military age, all from the mid-Ukraine. Khmelnytsky and Krivy Rog, so areas not to be considered pro-Russian.
    No idea if that is something that slowly leaks into the minds, but their opinion differs from the last squad by some 180 deg.

    First of all, they have contested the casualties rate. When I asked 350k number, all commented that it is ... much more than that.
    The one from Krivy Rog, his family lives in some suburban area. There is not a single family down the road of a whole area who has not lost someone/know someone who perished.
    Comments about Cocainsky can't be repeated in civilized discussion Laughing
    The general idea about this whole mess is mindblowing....

    Desirable outcome of copious application of heavy ordinance

    Everyone was horrified when I suggested it 18 months ago but guess who was right?


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    Backman
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    Post  Backman 19/05/23, 09:54 am

    If the 300,000 dead is correct, Ukraine owes around 180 billion USD to compensation to families.

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    Post  flamming_python 19/05/23, 10:39 am

    Backman wrote:If the 300,000 dead is correct, Ukraine owes around 180 billion USD to compensation to families.

    Where did you get the idea that a person's life is worth $600,000 in the Ukraine?

    I don't think even the families of killed US soldiers get something close to that

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    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E 19/05/23, 10:49 am

    @Suriyak
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    Situation at Bakhmut city:
    #RussianArmy moved the frontline to Yuvileina street and surpassed it taking full control over Novyi (Domino) microdistrict. In addition, troops took control over new areas adjacent to the Industrial College.
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #42 - Page 40 FwcKNraXsAEWgvH?format=jpg&name=medium

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    Post  Podlodka77 19/05/23, 02:22 pm

    Militarywatch magazine
    Patriot Radar Station and Five Missile Batteries Destroyed in Russian Hypersonic Strike on Kiev
    May-18th-2023

    Following a major strike on the Ukrainian capital Kiev in May 16, which involved use of multiple missile classes including deployment of Kinzhal ballistic missiles against Ukraine’s Patriot air defence systems, new information regarding the strike has continued to emerge. With Western sources having confirmed that a Patriot system was taken out of action, the Russian Defence Ministry on May 18 reported: "According to verified information, as a result of a strike by the Kinzhal hypersonic missile system in the city of Kiev a multifunctional radar station, as well as five launchers of the Patriot anti-aircraft missile system manufactured by the United States were hit and completely destroyed on May 16, 2023.” It was previously only confirmed that the radar station, which provides command and control for each Patriot unit, was destroyed. Ukraine received two units of Patriots from mid April, with the first delivered less than a month before the recent strike. The United States repeatedly proved reluctant to provide the assets or to allow its European allies to do so, not only because this would deplete the relatively limited arsenals available to the U.S. Military and its allies, but also because of their extreme cost and the significant reputational damage which their destruction in combat could cause. The system’s failure was widely predicted in light of its highly modest combat record against much simpler missiles than those in Russia’s arsenal.

    Three primary factors thought to have influenced Washington to eventually approve transfers of Patriots to Ukraine included sustained pressure from European allies, the danger of Ukrainian population centres becoming unliveable due to Russian strikes on critical infrastructure, and the very serious depletion of Ukraine’s existing air defence network built around Soviet S-300 and BuK systems which the country inherited in considerable quantities in 1991. Patriots are by far the most costly military assets Ukraine has in service, and their delivered has absorbed a high portion of the funds allocated to aiding the Ukrainian war effort - an investment which it was long argued by multiple analysts would be far from cost effectively. The Patriots were assigned to protect the capital following major Russian strikes on critical infrastructure, with their much lower mobility and more limited arcs of fire than even Soviet era variants of the S-300 system limiting their suitability for use near the frontlines in Eastern Ukraine. The Patriot system targeted reportedly fired 32 interceptors at the Kinzhal ballistic missiles that targeted it, all of which failed, with this salvo alone having cost approximately $96 million.



    Militarywatch magazine
    Putin Warned Patriot Air Defences Wouldn’t Survive Long in Ukraine: A Hypersonic Missile Just Destroyed Half the Network Within a Month
    May-17th-2023

    On May 16 as part of a complex series of strikes on the Ukrainian capital Kiev the Russian Air Force employed the Kh-47M2 Kinzhal hypersonic ballistic missile to neutralise a unit from an American Patriot air defence system, destroying its a radar and a control centre and reportedly at least one of its launchers. According to Russian sources, the Ukrainian crew operating the Patriot were aware a strike was incoming, but had only a limited warning time due to the Kinzhal missile’s very high speed - limiting opportunities for the missile system to change position or reload. The Patriot system targeted was one of two delivered, with Germany and the United States having each supplied a single unit. The unit reportedly fired 32 surface to air missiles at the Kinzhal on approach, which at approximately $3 million each amounted to a $96 million barrage to attempt to destroy a missile with an estimated cost of under $2 million. The very high cost and limited number of the Patriot’s interceptors was a key argument for not sending the systems to Ukraine, with their effectiveness also having been brought to question not only due to the system’s highly troubled combat record, but also to the advanced capabilities of new Russian missiles such as the Kinzhal, Iskander and Zicron. These are considered nearly impossible to intercept particularly in their terminal stages. The delivery of Patriots was nevertheless seen as necessary due to the near collapse of Ukrainian air defences, as warnings have been given with growing frequency by both Western and Ukrainian sources that the arsenal of S-300 and BuK missile systems protecting the country has become critically depleted.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #42 - Page 40 Articl32


    Destruction of the Patriot systems comes less than a month after the first systems were delivered in April, and follows a warning in December from Russian President Vladimir Putin that the destruction of the systems was an absolute certainty should they be deployed in Ukraine. He assured that with Washington “now saying that they can put a Patriot [in Ukraine]. Okay, let them do it. We will crack the Patriot [like a nut] too, and something will need to be installed in its place, new systems need to be developed - this is a complex and lengthy process” - indicating that NATO had no newer generations of long range air defence systems available to replace the Patriot once its vulnerability was demonstrated. “Our adversaries proceed from the idea that this is supposedly a defensive weapon. All right, we'll keep that in mind. And an antidote can always be found," Putin added. The United States notably reassured Russia in December that Patriot systems would not be manned by American personnel, which was interpreted by some sources as an effective green light to proceed with strikes. With Ukrainian personnel expected to take until 2024 to learn to operate Patriots, they are thought to have been manned by contractors from NATO member states who are already acquainted with the systems.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #42 - Page 40 Articl33

    The Kinzhal missile used to neutralise the Patriot battery entered service in the Russian Military in late 2017, and was first employed in the Russian-Ukrainian War on March 18 2022 to strike a large underground warehouse in Western Ukraine housing armaments recently delivered through Poland. The missile has been a weapon of choice for striking high priority targets far behind Ukrainian lines due to its combination of a very long range and a high performance, where surface launched Iskander missiles with some similar capabilities were designed with only a 500km range due to the Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces Treaty which both Moscow and Washington were parties to until 2019. The Kinzhal has been widely deployed since 2017 in newly created squadrons of MiG-31K and MiG-31I strike fighters, which have consistently been stationed in areas of high tensions with NATO including Syria, Belarus, Kaliningrad and the Arctic. The MiG-31 has emerged as a star performer in the Russian-Ukrainian War not only due to its contributions to strike missions, but also to the performance of MiG-31BM/BSM interceptor variants which a number of Western sources have reported to be a strongly felt presence in the air which has caused serious losses for Ukrainian aviation. The possibility remains that the sole remaining Patriot battery will be a priority target either for MiG-31K/I strike fighters or for other Russian assets.

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    Post  Sprut-B 19/05/23, 03:40 pm

    Off topic:

    Is there any long detailed video on the International Exhibition of Arms and Military Machinery 2023 held in Minsk? I've only seen a one minute video clip on Twitter by RT and haven't found any detailed long video of this exhibition.
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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO 19/05/23, 04:27 pm

    Hole wrote:
    lol1

    Laughing Laughing Laughing

    But I have even better one!

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #42 - Page 40 Photo167

    Material losses of Ukraine Laughing Laughing

    By the way ... Just sit and learn, how the circus around PAC3 total failure will be developed by the shitstream because it will be pure gold for understanding the mechanism behind it.

    flamming_python wrote:
    Backman wrote:If the 300,000 dead is correct, Ukraine owes around 180 billion USD to compensation to families.

    Where did you get the idea that a person's life is worth $600,000 in the Ukraine?

    I don't think even the families of killed US soldiers get something close to that

    Well, they do have some official compensation rate. And I guess some of that money must have been allocated to the families of the fallen. That was one of the reasons of the absurd MIA proportion.

    Edit :

    ROTFL

    https://t.me/SIL0VIKI/67718

    Happy mortar Laughing

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    mnztr


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    Post  mnztr 19/05/23, 04:44 pm

    calripson wrote:

    The only way to "massively raise taxation" without hurting the consumer economy would be to tax wealth, not income, in effect an inheritance tax on the wealthy while they are still living. It is also a much more equitable form of taxation, but since the rich bankroll the politicians and own the media/social media/Hollywood, it isn't going to happen. Inflation only reduces debt via diminishing the real value of outstanding debt, but in the US the marginal rate of new debt creation doesn't decline, in fact it has to increase to produce the same unit of economic output. Only productivity gains via technology can offset this and that is exactly why stocks like MSFT and GOOGL are increasing in value because AI is viewed as the next wave of productivity enhancement estimated to add 4% to S&P 500 margins in the next decade which is huge.

    That's not true. The amount of tax revenue they can raise by raising taxes on people making 400K and higher is staggering, And that won't really hurt mass consumerism.
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    Post  GarryB 19/05/23, 05:29 pm

    The military priority is not to provide security for civilians, the main priority is to go after concentrations of Ukrainian manpower

    Priority to protect the civilians is there, and I suspect the Ukraine will move its manpower to where the Russians are attacking or risk losing more territory.

    Attacking Ukrainian strongpoints is not easy, better to get them to move around to fight Russians.

    The USA has the capacity to massively raise taxation without harming the consumer economy significantly.

    Bit of a contradiction there isn't it... period of high inflation with the price of food going up and rent always being high and you think the US government can increase tax levels to make everything even more expensive so they can keep spending money like it is falling from the sky?

    That would cause riots.

    Its a game of chicken. money printing will have to be curtailed, but in a odd way the inflation wave will actually reduce the debt relative to the economy.

    Inflation raises interest rates which can make even a small debt a real burden at a time when essentials are difficult to pay for.

    Contrary to, the close minded and ignorant view of many on this forum, Anything less than the total annexation of Ukraine is a failure, you can only seize a small part of it, but then you are just status quoing it and that never goes well at all. The US will be very happy to take a bite today and come for more tomorrow, are you seriously that sort sighted to think we are putting all the cards in one basket? well yes, many are.

    Russia never wanted the Ukraine to become part of Russia... the Crimea was Russian and was never really part of the Ukraine to begin with.

    The Ukrainians in the four new Russian regions were never Russian, but the treatment by Kiev has made them hate Kiev and they would rather be Russian than what Kiev has become.

    Russia should not bother saving western Ukraine, which is not to say they should not bomb the shit out of them at some stage, but I would say cutting what is left of the Ukraine off from the Black Sea and allowing parts of Moldova to be part of Russia or neighbours of Russia instead of neighbours of Ukraine makes a lot of sense.

    Being able to navigate the Danube to Serbia would also be rather useful for Russia too as it would allow them to reach EU countries that are not insane.

    HATO is pretending to defend Ukraine and it is failing with Russia using 10% of its military force... and the HATO countries are running out of weapons and ammo and money on a country that made them much less safe than they used to be.

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    Post  Firebird 19/05/23, 07:42 pm

    Garry, OF COURSE the people of the 4 new regions were Russian.

    The "Ukraine" was an artificial crook and traitor led breakaway self governing region of the USSR since 1991.
    And the Ukrainian SSR was ALSO an artificial administrative subdivision of the USSR.
    Before that... it was Russian and the word "Ukraine" wasn't even in usage.

    The only reason why the Russian half of the post 1991 Pukraine wanted the Pukraine held together in earlier decades was that they knew dissolution would mean masses of Fascist vermin as a next door neighbour disputing borders and causing mayhem. Mayhem which has in any case happened now... after the vermin were armed up by GATO. And besides, why should the people of the East facilitate a situation where the Russian minority in the Western Ukraine are terrorised and murdered etc?

    The Eastern half of the Pukraine is more Russian than quite a few parts of the Ru Fedn.

    What you're saying is like saying "people from Moscow aren't Russian, they are Muscovite".


    Last edited by Firebird on 19/05/23, 07:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  nomadski 19/05/23, 07:50 pm

    China/ Iran can buy Russia Diamond and Copper and sell on Alibaba . Russia/China can buy Iran oil and sell on Amazon . More DU rounds for Jellinsky to create mushroom cloud over Europe ( The wind was accidentally on purpose in the right direction ) . Patriot is a super- weapon , to protect Jellinsky . Small pincer advance like the silk- worm , to turn into Butterfly . Licence production of F110 , for Russia , with Earth- penetrating timed fuse for Roads and bunkers . North- South corridor Rail , a necessity , something on my mind for twenty years . Since everything going well , I won't tax my third world mind too much , and just post song to cheer you up !


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