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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38

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    Post  PapaDragon Thu Feb 16, 2023 8:27 pm

    Belisarius wrote:If the VKS failed, then why has Ukraine been begging the West for a No-Fly-Zone since the first week of the conflict?...

    Ukrainians are able to use artillery ergo VKS failed since it was their job to make sure Ukrainian artillery is gone alongside anything else on the surface

    Ukrainians want no-fly zone because they want to play on easy since they saw in former Yugoslavia what a cakewalk war is when you have massive airforce on your side (competent one)


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    Post  DerWolf Thu Feb 16, 2023 8:43 pm

    Yeah lack of air superiority is the reason why the war stall.

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    Post  Podlodka77 Thu Feb 16, 2023 8:45 pm

    Again I have to return to the story of the Russian Air Force because I see that some people did not understand me well.
    The core of the Russian army has ALWAYS been the ground army, always, so the VVS story was never a priority for the military planners of the Russian army.
    And I will repeat to aviation fans one more time; over 75% of Ukroshitstans were killed by Russian artillery.
    The Russian army is primarily based on armored-mechanized units and artillery that are protected from air defense during offensive and defensive operations.
    I don't understand why you don't ask yourself why is that so.
    And if the Russians were morons like these idiots in the West (they thought they would never need artillery and tanks again), then Russia would not have over 10,000 tanks in reserve today.

    Today, the Russians would have at least 50% more aircraft in the VVS if they had not invested in echeloned air defense and all the systems they have from the 9K333 Verba to the S-500 "Prometheus" and if they had only one or two air defense systems like the USA.
    I think it is much better that Russia does not have those 50% more planes, but that is why it has an echeloned air defense system.
    And just imagine how many more planes the Russians would have if they did not invested in the 3K55 "Bastion", 3K60 "Bal", H-47M2 "Kinzhal" or 3M22 "Zirkon".
    It all costs money; hundreds and hundreds of S-400 launchers, 144 ordered launchers for the S-350 (12 divisions with 12 launchers in each division), plus who knows how many Pantsir, Tor-M2, Buk-M3, S-500, Bal, Bastion, Zirkon, etc..
    The Russians have everything they need for the SMO in which Russia participates.

    The clash of two military forces in the city cannot be won by aviation, but only by the military boot.
    There is not a single country in the world that has waged war against an entire military alliance as is the case in which Russia is waging an "indirect" war against the West.
    And yes, I am of the opinion that the role of the Air Force as a branch of the military is overestimated and that exaggeration came precisely from the West. In the West, they thought that they would crush any opponent in the future with sanctions and immediately afterwards with armed force, as they did in Serbia, Iraq, Syria or Libya.
    Yes, maybe the ground army is not as "fancy" as the planes, but only the military BOOT is the confirmation on the ground for a military victory.

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    Post  ALAMO Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:09 pm

    The clash of two military forces in the city cannot be won by aviation, but only by the military boot.

    Let me calm your worries, my dear Watson, sir! Very Happy
    You are talking to the people who represent - in general - a fallen nation that has no infrastructure.
    You can't teach a Murican (nonprofessional) what urban warfare means, because he lives in a barn.
    Made of sticks and cardboard.
    Still, his propaganda was filling him all his life, how wealthy his miserable credit living is.
    He looks jealous at the rich man's houses over the hill, made of bricks&stone - knowing that each single square feet cost 4-5 times more there.
    And that is only if he ownes his cardboard-made suburban shitty home, not living in a trailer.

    How this kind of people can realize what means war in urbanized Europe? scratch
    If he is so fukin "rich", how it is possible that most of those poor folks out there ownes houses he admires, the ones over the hill?
    You have a mental blockade.
    They are really incapable of getting the pieces of puzzles in order.

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    Post  billybatts91 Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:12 pm

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    Post  Podlodka77 Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:28 pm

    TO Alamo...

    Good evening bro...   Very Happy

    I am writing to these generals that 500 BGM-109 or 500 Russian 3M14 "Caliber" can be launched at Artyomovsk (Bahmut), but that will not liberate Artyomovsk.
    I am writing to those same generals that every house, building, basement, tunnel in a city cannot be conquered with precisely guided aerial bombs and air-to-ground missiles.
    There is no "precision" guided weaponry in that amount in any army in the world.
    This is nonsense that the population in the West believes, but I just wonder how long it will last.

    The conflicts led by the USA in the past few decades followed the copy-paste system; sanctions, military strikes by NATO and regime change. It was easy to do it in the conflicts from a distance, but this is a border conflict. I have already written once and I stand behind it that this conflict would have been over long ago if Ukroshitstan did not receive information about the Russian army via American satellites.

    The greatest enemy of the Russian army is not even Leopard 2, Himars, M777, but satellites. Just to add that the Russian army has the ability to destroy those satellites, just so the forum generals know what kind of army we are talking about. Could Serbia, Iraq, Syria, Libya do the same or or to destroy American satellites ? I know you know the answer, but just for the sake of comparison..

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    Post  ALAMO Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:34 pm

    We have two types of people who are sprinkling this state of mind among us.
    The first has not a single clue.
    While the second has one.
    As easy as that.

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    Post  Backman Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:50 pm

    Mark Sleboda says the main reason for the breakthroughs and the increase in artillery piece losses in Ukraine are because of the Penicillin artillery radar that Russia started using.

    Penicillin completed state trials in December 2018 and entered combat duty in 2020. So it is very new

    See the last video

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    Post  Hole Thu Feb 16, 2023 9:58 pm

    Again I have to return to the story of the Russian Air Force because I see that some people did not understand me well.
    People who think that you can eliminate an enemy force by dropping 10.000+ guided bombs onto it watched to many Hollywood movies.

    Most useful VKS assets (besides AD systems) are recon drones (partly owned by the Army or VDV), ground attack planes, attack helicopters and
    missile carriers (bombers) for launching long-range cruise missiles. This weapons can be used in a peer-to-peer conflict.

    But tactical bombers (Su-34) and multi-role aircraft (Su-30 and Su-35) are also used all the time, shoting down planes, aircraft and drones and
    destroying AD systems or important ground targets.

    They´re just not used in the western fashion, dropping bombs onto defenceless goat herders.

    There is no "precision" guided weaponry in that amount in any army in the world.
    Not quite true. The Russian Army is in possession of tens of thousands of ATGM´s which are used to strike enemy positions.
    Just look at the poor sniper in that short clip posted above.  Very Happy

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    Post  ALAMO Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:01 pm

    It is not a "sniper".
    It is plural.
    They are getting killed from a 3-6km distance, well above their range.
    Training of a sniper is a complex and leveled study that can take up to 3 years. And there is a practice that follows.

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    Post  Hole Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:04 pm

    Penicillin artillery radar
    Penicilin is not a radar, it´s a passive system using seismic sensors and optics.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38 - Page 28 001224

    Combination of that system with more Zoopark and maybe some Yastreb radars + a lot of Lancet drones works very well.
    They´re also using radars of AD systems in the counter-battery role.
    I would add some changes to the command and communication systems to the success. I guess there is more direct talk
    between the recon and the strike assets now.

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    Post  billybatts91 Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:06 pm

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    Post  billybatts91 Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:07 pm

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    Post  billybatts91 Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:10 pm


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    Post  Hole Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:13 pm

    Short comment on Prigozhin: without the help of the russian MoD his organisation would consist of a few hundred guys with rifles. No tanks. No artillery. Nothing.
    Wagner had only success in Soledar after regular russian army units were deployed there to secure the flanks and help with indirect fire. So maybe he should just
    shut his mouth or leave Wagner and found a political party or candidate for mayor in St. Petersburg.

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    Post  ALAMO Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:23 pm

    Penicilin is not a radar, it´s a passive system using seismic sensors and optics.

    Yup.
    We talked about that a while ago.
    Lots of cities have developed quite similar systems.
    Police, firefighters, and civil defense are using those.
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    Post  Hole Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:32 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38 - Page 28 Fpgqli10
    Grim Reaper is moving forward
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38 - Page 28 Fpgxeg10
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38 - Page 28 Fphhnh10
    Progress in that nearly encircled village north of Bakhmut.

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    Post  Podlodka77 Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:39 pm

    Info about 1B75 "Penicilin"

    Sound-thermal reconnaissance complex 1B75 "Penicillin" at the forum "Army-2021"

    As Rossiyskaya Gazeta reported in the article by Sergei Ptichkin, “A long-range sound-thermal reconnaissance complex has been created in Russia,” at the seventh International Military-Technical Forum “Army-2021” in Kubinka JSC “NII” Vector (St. Petersburg, as part of Radio Engineering Concern Vega, a division of JSC Roselectronics of the State Corporation Rostec), presented the 1B75 Penicillin sound-thermal reconnaissance artillery complex and the Zashchita semi-active location, radio monitoring and countermeasures complex for unmanned aerial vehicles .

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38 - Page 28 91549210
    Lifting antenna device of the 1B75 "Penicillin" sound-thermal reconnaissance complex developed by JSC "NII" Vector "(St. Petersburg) (c) Sergey Ptichkin / rg.ru


    Only our scientists and technical specialists managed to create a system that hears and feels the heat of enemy batteries at a distance of 17 km, and the launch of a tactical missile picks up 38 kilometers away.

    During the Second World War, special devices were widely used that made it possible to hear the approach of enemy aircraft. "Hearing" were in our army. Many have seen photos of fighters in headphones sitting near huge bells that pick up the slightest sound in the sky. It is completely wrong to consider this a kind of primitivism. On the Leningrad front, it was precisely such "rumors" who revealed 80 percent of German mortar batteries, which, of course, were immediately destroyed.

    With the development of radar, they stopped listening to the sky. But acoustic intelligence remained, now it is being revived at a qualitatively new level. Our country is in the lead, in which a completely unique in terms of capabilities complex 1B75 "Penicillin" has been created.

    What is its main feature? First of all, in the fact that he conducts passive scanning of large areas, without giving himself away. He sees and hears everything, himself remaining invisible. And yet - "Penicillin" cannot be suppressed by any means of electronic warfare.

    The complex provides reception and processing of thermal imaging and acoustic information from flashes of shots (explosions) and from flying artillery shells, mines, rockets. This allows in a fraction of a second to determine the exact coordinates of enemy batteries, transfer them to their gunners and missilemen, who will deliver a blow that destroys the enemy.

    Specialists of the St. Petersburg Research Institute "Vector", where the 1B75 complex was created, had to solve a huge array of scientific problems. If with thermal imaging systems, in principle, everything was clear, then with acoustics, in principle, everything turned out to be very obscure. In addition, the sound-metric reconnaissance complex operates in the infrasonic range, which is almost unexplored.

    The atmosphere is saturated with infrasound. And how to catch and highlight the sound of a shot in this acoustic cacophony? The best mathematicians and programmers were involved in the work, who managed to solve a seemingly unsolvable problem and build the most complex heuristic algorithms. By the way, these are young people who are not interested in business, but in technology. Mohicans…

    Somehow managed to simulate the work of the human brain. After all, we, without realizing it, clearly distinguish among the huge number of sounds the one that we need. Valery Kamyshev, who became the chief designer of the sound-measuring complex, has been creating real artificial intelligence for fifteen years.

    It is worth repeating that nowhere in the world is there a complex like "Penicillin". Nevertheless, it was allowed to be sold abroad, at the Army-2021 forum it was exhibited as a 1B75E product, that is, in an export version.

    Another, no less interesting, development of the Research Institute "Vector" is the complex of semi-active location, radio monitoring and counteraction to the UAV "Zashchita (protection)". He is able to constantly monitor the airspace, instantly fixing the appearance of the smallest drone, which may be invisible to powerful air defense radars.

    The creators of "Protection" have chosen an interesting way of fixing a flying object. Digital television and FM radio stations are now widely used. So, everything that is in the air reflects the signals of these transmitters. "Protection", without radiating anything, works on a re-reflected signal. As the developers said, the reference signal is the one emitted by the body or radio tower, on which all re-reflected signals are superimposed. After processing the direct and re-reflected signals, the location of the flying object and its intended path are determined quite accurately.

    Everything seemed to be simple. But then again, there is nothing like it in the world.

    The Zaschita complex can be used to protect military and strategic facilities, as it records the flight of the smallest drones. Or maybe protect the peace of important people who do not want the drones of all kinds of paparazzi flying over their vast estates. After all, "Protection" in a certain configuration is capable of not only detecting drones, but also interrupting their flight.

    "Protection", as well as "Penicillin", are allowed for export.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #38 - Page 28 91552410
    The complex of semi-active location, radio monitoring and countermeasures against unmanned aerial vehicles "Protection" developed by JSC "NII "Vector" (St. Petersburg) in the exposition of the International Military-Technical Forum "Army-2021". Kubinka, August 2021 (c) Sergey Ptichkin / rg.ru


    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiZg8P6_Zr9AhUBKewKHRnpDt4QFnoECCUQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fbmpd.livejournal.com%2F4383315.html&usg=AOvVaw0bJlvFlRHjdMLjVBeoF0p7

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    Post  mnztr Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:45 pm

    Well perhaps its true, but how can you tell if someone was killed by artillery vs bombs and rockets from an IL-2? (which they made an insane qty off).

    We are seeing a quasi competition of ideologies, but Ukraine also had at its core a ground army and its airforce was shit. So what if Russia had to face the full NATO air force? Could they prevent air dominance from being established with their multilayers AD system? Can the USA take out their AD radars? Would Russia be able to contest the airspace? Artillery is the cheapest and most reliable means of delivering death from a distance, that I agree with 100%. Any weather, night/day no problem. BUT can Russia protect its artillery against NATO, and its ammo stores etc. Ukraine is gonna lose this because it never stood a chance. It has no means to strike at the enemies rear, while Russia can strike at will. Yet somehow materiel continues to move with little difficulty.

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    Post  limb Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:59 pm

    Short comment on Prigozhin: without the help of the russian MoD his organisation would consist of a few hundred guys with rifles. No tanks. No artillery. Nothing.
    Wagner had only success in Soledar after regular russian army units were deployed there to secure the flanks and help with indirect fire. So maybe he should just
    shut his mouth or leave Wagner and found a political party or candidate for mayor in St. Petersburg.

    And why didnt the russian motor rifle and vdvd units coordinate operationally with wagner before soledar?

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    Post  JohninMK Thu Feb 16, 2023 10:59 pm

    A very long but worthwhile read about how Russia is dealing with modern intelligence gathering. Very good section towards the end on artillery.

    https://simplicius76.substack.com/p/all-seeing-eye-can-russia-break-through

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    Post  caveat emptor Thu Feb 16, 2023 11:05 pm

    About current conflict between Prigozhin and someone in MoD . Plea from members of Wagner's arty units.
    There was a similar situation with Khodakovsky, when he criticized decision of certain officers. Supply of ammo to his unit, Vostok brigade, were also interrupted.
    This time stakes are higher, as Prigozhin made a remark about Shoigu's daughter, which allegedly spent New Year's holidays in Dubai.
    Eternal enemy of the Russian state, its own bureaucracy.
    Post can be opened and video watched directly in the browser. 

    https://t.me/milinfolive/97057

    The gunners of the PMC "Wagner" recorded a video message to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation about the shortage of the main calibers of shells and mines - 152, 125, 120 and 100 mm.

    Apparently, there is an obvious and gradual blocking of air to Prigozhin by certain high-ranking military officials in the Russian military department.  First, Wagner is denied access to a recruitment kit among prisoners, and then acute problems with ammunition begin.

    A similar conflict between the Ministry of Defense and PMC "Wagner" has already occurred in Syria, when the "musicians" suddenly found themselves deprived of most of the heavy weapons, adequate supplies of ammunition and equipment.  In general terms, you can read about this on the channel of our colleagues from GRAY ZONE.

    And now the situation repeats itself again.  Against the backdrop of the success of the Wagner attack aircraft in the Bakhmut direction, the apparatchiks in the Russian Defense Ministry needed their own small victorious operation near Ugledar, and when the plan stalled, a brilliant decision was made in its simplicity: since we can’t get around Prigozhin in a fair game, we’ll just take  him all the figures.

    We will go far with this approach to combat operations.

    @milinfolive

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    Post  zorobabel Thu Feb 16, 2023 11:06 pm

    Short comment on Prigozhin: without the help of the russian MoD his organisation would consist of a few hundred guys with rifles. No tanks. No artillery. Nothing.
    Wagner had only success in Soledar after regular russian army units were deployed there to secure the flanks and help with indirect fire. So maybe he should just
    shut his mouth or leave Wagner and found a political party or candidate for mayor in St. Petersburg.
    It is of course true that Wagner relies on the Russian MoD.

    However, Wagner's successes started in Svetlodarsk. Since then, they have been responsible for most of the gains on the Bakhmut front over the past 8 months. In that time, regular MoD troops lost Kherson and collapsed on the Kharkov front, and have made no substantial gains anywhere else.

    So I would say his opinion is worth listening to.

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    Post  franco Thu Feb 16, 2023 11:12 pm

    I notice in reading through the posts that some promotions have been handed out and that we now have some generals here. The increased military insight can only be helpful...

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