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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #36

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    Dr.Snufflebug


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    Post  Dr.Snufflebug Tue Jan 24, 2023 12:02 am

    In addition to the ongoing purge, Zelensky has also now signed a law prohibiting any government officials from leaving the country.

    To be honest it sounds like they are trying to prevent a coup/organized defection or some such?

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    mnztr


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    Post  mnztr Tue Jan 24, 2023 12:19 am

    nice joke. wrote:

    its no joke. how many countries has the west colonized, exploited, robbed, enslaved, nuked, destroyed etc. vs Russia.
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    Post  mnztr Tue Jan 24, 2023 12:24 am

    Taliban were never a threat, that was just for fun. Russia nearly lost to the Germans and French just one nation at a time. So don't be silly. The the US  is basically destroying Ukraine and making Russia pay a high price, just to get the EU. Is it evil and stupid? Yes it is. All this harm is being inflicted on Russia with no blood spilled on the Western side. Just a slav on slav kill fest. In the USA only 3 % of Americans feel Ukraine is important. 3%....of course they are idiots but that makes them even more dangerous.
    PhSt
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    Post  PhSt Tue Jan 24, 2023 12:39 am

    Taliban were never a threat, that was just for fun

    Gee, spending 8 trillion dollars just for fun and then retreating and giving up all their gains in 20 years is truly a sound foreign policy Laughing

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    LMFS
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    Post  LMFS Tue Jan 24, 2023 1:01 am

    Begome wrote:after all, in Ukraine NATO is already being partially demilitarized.

    After the last rush to rearm the ukies by transferring the core assets of their toy armies for their destruction in 404, all NATO can do is to sign whatever Russia demands or press the red button. They are actually putting all the tokens left on their ukrainian nazis, so desperate they are, that they don't care about leaving their nations without a standing army...

    BTW, interesting reflection about the scale of de denazification effort:

    Graduate of the Academy of the General Staff: the performance of the RF Armed Forces during the NMD in terms of the rate of destruction of enemy equipment surpasses even the times of the Second World War

    The Russian army in less than a year, during a special operation in Ukraine, destroyed enemy forces that exceeded the entire NATO grouping in Europe. This is reported by military correspondent Alexander Sladkov with reference to his friend, a graduate of the Academy of the General Staff.

    Sweet said referring to his friend, he writes from his words that during the special operation in Ukraine, 372 aircraft of the Armed Forces of Ukraine were shot down, which, like the destroyed 200 enemy helicopters, constitutes a full-fledged air army. Also, the forces of the RF Armed Forces have already destroyed 7537 Ukrainian tanks and AFVs (more, of course, AFVs - excluding tanks) - an amount sufficient for two tank and five combined arms armies. 983 destroyed MLRS - this is a full-fledged shock army, 401 air defense systems - an amount sufficient for an air defense army. 3841 destroyed guns make up four artillery armies, and 8066 vehicles would be enough to fully equip eight full-fledged armies.

    In total, according to the military correspondent, Russia destroyed twenty-three enemy armies in less than a year, a number sufficient to form four fronts. This is the number of four Wehrmacht army groups or the entire currently existing NATO force grouping in Europe.

    These forces were destroyed without millions of losses on the part of the RF Armed Forces.

    It is emphasized that the effectiveness of the Russian army in the course of a special operation in Ukraine exceeds the times of the Second World War and other wars. The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation would long ago have defeated the army of any state that would not have been fully supported by the entire collective West and its allies.

    For our part, it is still worth making a remark: the data on the amount of destroyed military equipment, apparently, are the official statistics of the Ministry of Defense. It is often difficult to verify the accuracy of these data. But even if we assume that there is an "error" in the direction of a certain exaggeration, then in any case, the Russian troops destroyed so much military equipment that it would be enough for several full-fledged armies. This is to the question of how demilitarization proceeds during the NWO.

    https://en.topwar.ru/209354-vypusknik-akademii-genshtaba-rezultativnost-vs-rf-v-hode-svo-po-tempam-unichtozhenija-tehniki-protivnika-prevoshodit-dazhe-vremena-vov.html

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    zorobabel
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    Post  zorobabel Tue Jan 24, 2023 1:11 am

    Gee, spending 8 trillion dollars just for fun and then retreating and giving up all their gains in 20 years is truly a sound foreign policy Laughing
    The war in Afghanistan was a means of subsidizing the US military industrial complex.

    Some of you fellas really don't understand how Empire works, do you?

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    sepheronx
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    Post  sepheronx Tue Jan 24, 2023 1:29 am

    The thing is, Russian military isn't really being utilized here. While VDV and Marines, with possibly some normal ground forces are used in the rear to protect positions, most of the fighting is done by mercenaries (Wagner) and volunteer units from either around the globe or Chechen units.

    So they really aren't fighting even Russia's best or well trained units.

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    Godric
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    Post  Godric Tue Jan 24, 2023 2:55 am

    the speech in the Reichstag by the AFD politician re Leopards in Russia, remember to turn on English subtitles or Russian subtitles if you can't understand German, he has to be the most clued up politician in the Eurozone and Europe

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    dionis


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    Post  dionis Tue Jan 24, 2023 3:31 am

    sepheronx wrote:
    The thing is, Russian military isn't really being utilized here. While VDV and Marines, with possibly some normal ground forces are used in the rear to protect positions, most of the fighting is done by mercenaries (Wagner) and volunteer units from either around the globe or Chechen units.

    So they really aren't fighting even Russia's best or well trained units.



    The VDV, Marines, Wagner and Chechens I'd wager are better trained/experienced than most Russian ground forces (and in many cases more motivated, as they volunteered themselves for the most hardcore options in the military), save for certain unmentioned Spetsnaz units.

    Who are these "best or well trained units" that Russia isn't using, short of certain small Spetsnaz elements of the various armed forces?

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Tue Jan 24, 2023 3:33 am

    mnztr wrote:
    Taliban were never a threat, that was just for fun. Russia nearly lost to the Germans and French just one nation at a time.

    This is cope

    The US didn't go to Afghanistan for "fun"

    They had plans in this region for over 40 years since Brzezinski armed the Mujahideen

    They invested more than trillions, they had armed this region with serious weapons in the 70s and 80s, and used other wars to attempt to get situated in the Levant and Afghanistan as a means to shuttle between Asia and Europe - the military power

    They were defeated militarily by the Taliban - and nothing was subsidized

    They are 31 trillion dollars in debt and considering a trillion dollar coin to complete their budget this year since they will not be able to raise their debt ceiling with political turmoil and economic instability

    What people call "political theater" is the breakdown of their domestic system

    If it was so easy, they would not have taken a hand of Afghanistan to grab for dear life onto Europe

    Giving up Afghanistan is the reason why they have let go of Kazakhstan, essentially erasing their central Asian positions

    They cannot build the arc of instability around Russia, they settled for the best they could get,

    A small local war where Russia has not been even remotely destabilized, and where minimal exertion has been made, where the Russian economy has been sovereignized , and where the industrial output is surpassing the 2000-2008 heyday of the Russian economy

    Meanwhile the US loses central Asia, middle east, and Saudi arabia slips from the grasp, Iran is basically relieved from pressure and Israel has had to take a backseat while the US hangs on for dear life to NATO

    Meanwhile Turkey has shutout Sweden and Finland from NATO, and they are the point of no return unless serious concessions are made to Erdogan

    The US suffered from mediocre management , and even more important, Klaus Schwab, Soros, and the banking conglomerate was revealed to be inept at managing global processes

    What we are seeing is more than just Russia playing whack a mole in Ukraine,

    We are seeing the US led order in its final days

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Jan 24, 2023 3:40 am

    There indeed might be something going on in Hungary's top Command.
    And the defense minister goes to Serbia around the same time?.
    where is smoke, there is fire they say.

    That story about former pro HATO leader of Hungary secretly getting the military to send fuel and ammo to the Ukraine while publicly stating they would not support Ukraine and while most people in Hungary vote against helping the Ukraine and rocking the boat with Russia who not only supply most of their oil and gas needs but also run and are in the process of building new nuclear power plants that will provide their energy needs for the next few years.

    A bit of an over reaction from the current government might be needed because the former government people who got them in to HATO clearly conspired to **** things up for Hungary with Russia... they can put those former government people in jail but they also need to deal with these pro HATO military people who took such an enormous risk to potentially seriously damage Hungary by breaking ties with Russia.

    This should be interesting.

    As far as HATO is concerned the only threats to Europe are Russia and China so keeping good ties with Russia is probably a better solution to that made up problem than joining HATO would be... joining HATO would make things worse. It would create the threat it was pretending to deal with.

    I’ve heard US will leave NATO

    If Trump gets elected....

    The US has broken EU ties with Russia so why would it need HATO any more?

    So once in the air, the shell uses fins (I assume the last section of that shell contains collapsed fins) and Glonass to guide itself to the target? How do you program the target coordinates?

    The nose cap falls off three quarters of the way to the target and behind it is an optical window that can see laser target marking laser spots to which the round guides itself to.

    Estonia could close its sovereign waters yes, but not Finlands, I believe the center is also international waters, unless by close they mean prevent Russian ships from going in or out with force? in which case yes depending on how they did it, that could very well be considered a dec of war

    The idiots suggesting it seem to think they can stop Russian ships, but not really sure how they would manage that. Important officials so far as I know have not said the same... ie the ones that could have this put in place have not said they will... a bit like Bolten saying Turkey should be kicked out of HATO for cooperating with Russia.

    So Russia would still need to negotiate with NATO and EU member Romania to get free navigation access to Serbia if I understand correctly...better than the status quo for sure but no guarantee.

    Russia could sell Serbia all the well armed river boats they want and they can enforce the river trade with Russia using all Serbian shipping in both directions... good income earner for them too.


    To be frank, that's a very cherry picked view, all the other countries would need to recognize Odessa as such and at that point it becomes a real messy ordeal

    All the shipping could be Serbian flagged ships in both directions... Russia could build them a few Buyan class river ships... they will be the toughest kids on the block.... Smile

    Furthermore, any Serbian merchant vessel could sail down the Danube to pick up Russian goods from the Reni port and then sail back up to Beograd again (as ALAMO pointed out). Very nice!

    And because HATO are well known for bending or ignoring international law when it suits Russia could gift a few Buyan class river boats to Serbia to protect her new merchant navy from interference... Smile

    That's taking assumptions little too far. While unimpeded trade via Danube will be good, serious weapon shipments to Serbia on the same route are highely unlikely.

    HATO is blocking air delivered weapons shipments so by river would be a good solution to the problem they created for them.

    As I have mentioned a couple of times Russia could sell or even lease a Buyan class River boat to Serbia to try out... see if they want to buy some in case there is trouble on the river they need to deal with for themselves... if they don't end up using it they can return it when the lease ends, but if it is useful they can deduct the lease price from the purchase price and just pay the difference perhaps.

    The war in Afghanistan was a means of subsidizing the US military industrial complex.

    Some of you fellas really don't understand how Empire works, do you?

    And also the promised payout... the geologically fascinating location with a lot of mountains and tectonic activity in a third world country that has never been commercially mined for minerals would be mouth watering to US mining companies and industry, but essentially they really only had time to fleece the US taxpayer shifting money from the government to the 1% who own the media and military to make them both richer.

    the speech in the Reichstag by the AFD politician re Leopards in Russia, remember to turn on English subtitles or Russian subtitles if you can't understand German, he has to be the most clued up politician in the Eurozone and Europe

    Western media will not play that video and most westerners will never know that speech took place and they will just think Germany fully supports Kiev no matter what...

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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Tue Jan 24, 2023 3:45 am

    The Kiev regime is engaging in ethnic cleansing through displacement of the Hungarian population on its territory using refugees
    as squatters who will never leave. So Hungary has a right to be angry and to take action. Any outfit always bleating about
    caring so much about something is a racket operation. NATzO bleating about human rights is a cover for abuse of human rights.

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    Post  GarryB Tue Jan 24, 2023 3:51 am

    This conflict in the Ukraine has not damaged Russia anywhere near to the extent it has damaged the west... the rest of the world are watching the west and realising that Russia and China and BRICS can be a real alternative to trying to deal with the west... where they always lose.

    BRICS is something different... non colonial... a really much brighter future potential.

    Putin could never have convinced Russia to break ties with the west the way the west has broken ties with Russia... the West has shown its fangs and its attempts to kill Russians should not be hidden or ignored by all Russians... and in fact by all non westerners because they will kill anyone... even their own if they think that will get them what they want.

    The VDV, Marines, Wagner and Chechens I'd wager are better trained/experienced than most Russian ground forces (and in many cases more motivated, as they volunteered themselves for the most hardcore options in the military), save for certain unmentioned Spetsnaz units.

    Who are these "best or well trained units" that Russia isn't using, short of certain small Spetsnaz elements of the various armed forces?

    Their biggest problems in the conflict in the Ukraine was not quality, but quantity... even just well trained troops that are not elite forces would have made an enormous difference, but would likely have also created a situation where surrender or changing sides was not an option... their forces would have rolled over the enemy forces pretty quickly, they would have had the number to surround fortified areas and continue flooding through Ukrainian territory while slowing destroying the hard points now surrounded and cut off from support and supply, but that would have been a real occupation and as they moved towards the west the population would become more and more hostile while pockets of Ukrainian units would be wandering the Russian rear areas with Javelins and NLAWs and Stingers trying to ambush weak rear supply and logistics units and probably would have been very successful because the focus would be on getting to the border and organising the bigger cities for surrenders or sieges...

    This way seems rather better to me.

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    Post  kvs Tue Jan 24, 2023 3:52 am

    @dionis

    The numbers of Wagner and Rosgvardia involved have not been large but they are beating the Kiev regime forces. The regular Russian army
    is not a collection of untrained cannon fodder that will not be able to conduct large and effective operations. Russia expects NATzO to go
    for broke and NATzO needs to have the last unpleasant surprise about Russia's military capability. The propaganda spew in the NATzO
    mass media, which the NATzO deciders believe themselves, is that Russians are throwing human waves at plucky Ukrian freedom fighters.

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    Arkanghelsk
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    Post  Arkanghelsk Tue Jan 24, 2023 3:52 am

    To expound further:

    A competent US leadership would have made sure that Erdogan was eliminated back in 2015 during the coup

    They would have also never antagonize China by allowing Trump into office,

    And even after that mistake, they should have gone into North Korea before nuclear weapons appeared there - now they have a South Korea which they cannot even use as fodder at this point

    They would also have escalated against Russia in Syria preventing a Russian presence in the Mediterranean , and have let Israel annex beyond the Golan Heights

    They would have not left Afghanistan and strengthened logistics to arm Kazakh and Uzbek insurgencies - removing Russian presence from there

    Going back to 08, Bush should have put those heavy sanctions on Russia since then, to allow the Obama administration to increase the economic pressure gradually, instead of allowing Russia to have substituted its imports, and strengthen its foreign reserves - unimpeded , then at least a color revolution would have been more plausible instead of Navalny ending up in prison, and essentially enabling an exodus of the pro US liberal base

    A competent US leadership would also have overthrown Lukashenko when they had the chance , and tightened a real noose around Russia

    What they now have is a cucked Finland which will not enter NATO , unless they boot Turkey (which is a much greater problem for the US), they have a Belarus which has over 100,000 Union State forces, they have Ukraine , essentially undergoing a slow russification/denazification process, they have allowed Russia to enter Nagornoh Karabakh and gain leverage over Armenia and Azeris, they abandoned Georgia to the point that Salome kisses Russian dick, they allowed Russia to put boots into Kazakhstan establishing a precedent for Russian intervention in central asia, and they have allowed Iran to straddle Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and the Gulf by vacating the region

    If I go further, Barkhane was a failure, instead of US elites shoring their positions in Libya and Africa, they turned it over to the Wagner group- and the only thing they did was bitch and moan labeling wagner a terror group

    Don't let me begin with China, losing Hong Kong has given them the upper hand in Taiwan -

    But ineptitude and incompetence is what led to revival of Greater Russia and judging from what is happening in China now..

    They have much bigger problems surfacing

    I actually don't think they will get the opportunity to ever challenge China- the ship sailed February 2022 when they blinked

    As much as they said they warned Zelensky , they only warned him about the presence of Russian units, but they never predicted that Russia would actually go in

    Had they done so, they wouldn't have been scrambling to empty NATO stocks in 2023

    It actually appears they were unprepared for war, despite all the MAXAR pictures

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    Post  sepheronx Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:00 am

    Wagner wouldn't be much more effective/Trained than regular forces unless former specops. Russia regulars are actually well trained, especially fact they undergo snap drills much more often since Shoigu has become defense minister. Wagner consists of a mixture of people with the top being former special forces units down to regular hires/volunteers and soon to be former convicts. With only a month or so training. Maybe the training would be intense and a good way to weed out poor performers but I wouldn't bet they are more capable than regular units who undergo training all year round.

    Volunteers can be a mix too. I would say that the training camps in Chechnya and around Russia are effective but the issue is still the same - longevity of the training program for units about to be sent to the battlefield.

    But this is also a praise towards them. They didn't even get close to same amount of money and training the Ukrainians did, and yet are still more capable than them.

    As for mnzt comments. I recall that Belarussian was rather pro west long before this conflict. So he was rather known for spewing dumb crap before hand.

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