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    T-72 ΜΒΤ modernisation and variants #2

    Isos
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    Post  Isos Tue Feb 06, 2024 10:16 pm

    Regular wrote:^^^
    The issue is that we rarely see Trophy engaging RPGs. So not only their tank usage is flawed operationally, but there is this little technical nuance as well

    In urban areas I doubt the radar and launching system ha e time to detect a rocket and deploy the interception explosives.

    An rpg will travel at 300 or m/s. If it's shot 10m away by a team hidding in a building it gives not even 1sec to react.

    The radar is also affected by such closed spaces with lot of noise coming from metalic structures around that bounce the signals.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Wed Feb 07, 2024 5:32 am


    In urban areas I doubt the radar and launching system ha e time to detect a rocket and deploy the interception explosives.

    I have to agree... ARENA and DROZD had munitions pointed in fixed directions with a bit of overlap so three missiles coming from the same direction could be intercepted without needing to turn the munitions launcher (ie turret).

    The speed of reaction can be high because as soon as it detects the incoming target it knows which munition to fire and will quickly calculate when...

    With and aimed munition launcher what happens if it is pointed in the opposite direction to that needed to work?

    Is there time to turn it 180 degrees?

    I personally liked the original ARENA design with a row of vertically launched downward firing munitions located behind the front row of ERA around the turret front... whether fired or not they add to the frontal protection of the tank. The new ARENA has boxes of munitions each able to cover a quarter of the vehicle... so one box carrying munitions for the left and right side and one box carrying munitions to cover the front and the rear.

    Why not go for both where munitions around the entire circumference of the turret and be launched up and away from the tank to fire downwards on incoming threats, while a couple of boxes hold further munitions to cover from any direction too... perhaps also diving top attack threats too.

    Those munitions around the turret could also be manually launched against enemy troops near the tank or hiding in nearby trenches.

    An rpg will travel at 300 or m/s. If it's shot 10m away by a team hidding in a building it gives not even 1sec to react.

    Most RPGs wont arm that close and would likely kill the guy launching the rocket if it did.

    The standard RPG-7 has a propellant charge to blow the rocket out of the tube at about 180m/s and after the rocket travels about 14-16m the sustainer rocket motor ignites and accelerates the rocket to about 370m/s to its target.

    When the sustainer motor burns out it sets off the warhead and acts like a safety system so you don't have rockets landing from tens of kms away.

    This self destruct feature works at about 930-950m and is sometimes used to get helicopters.... when a flying helicopter is about 940m away launch an RPG and it will explode rather close to the helicopter even if it doesn't hit it.

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    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Fri Feb 23, 2024 5:10 am

    T-72B3Ms spearheading the attacks on the Avdiivka Terrikon.


    Exhibit A of why armor will never go away as long as humans fight on land. You need armor to lead the charge and draw out enemy fire because everything else will get destroyed before you can identify where the enemy positions are and return effective fire.

    You can also see the annular splashes from 155 mm cassette shells at some points. The spin from the rifling disperses the submunitions in a very thin circular pattern with a very sparse coverage of the actual aimpoint. You would need a massive barrage of at least a couple hundred shells to really do some damage with against armored columns.

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    Post  Hole Sun Mar 31, 2024 4:52 pm

    T-72 ΜΒΤ modernisation and variants #2 - Page 11 Screen93
    T-72 ΜΒΤ modernisation and variants #2 - Page 11 Screen94
    thumbsup

    Now they are adding jammers.
    T-72 ΜΒΤ modernisation and variants #2 - Page 11 Screen96

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    Post  Hole Sat Apr 06, 2024 11:47 am

    T-72 ΜΒΤ modernisation and variants #2 - Page 11 005211
    T-72 ΜΒΤ modernisation and variants #2 - Page 11 005315
    He is more jammer than tank.  Very Happy

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    Post  higurashihougi Sun Apr 07, 2024 11:35 am

    Hole wrote:https://i.servimg.com/u/f10/19/89/13/22/005211.jpg
    https://i.servimg.com/u/f10/19/89/13/22/005315.jpg
    He is more jammer than tank.  Very Happy

    ====

    More info

    https://www.facebook.com/K01Archive/posts/pfbid0NM1mSc8utU1pZ7FRgCTHttMLEANTuFiUmHuw6yS96Bdet9GXL7PqFpay5nbY2sd6l

    Other images of the super bulking jammer just installed above Russian tanks.

    Each of the jamming blocks consists of 16 antenna broadcasting many kinds of jamming waves, allows it to disrupt many kinds of signal from commanding signals to GPS.

    However it is energy consuming and generate much heat, which requires a strong car battery and a separeated electric generator.

    What happens when these jammers fall into the hand of Ukrainian forces ? Nothing, as these jammers have simple design and use common technology. There is no super alien tech here.

    T-72 ΜΒΤ modernisation and variants #2 - Page 11 Jammer10

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Sun Apr 07, 2024 12:23 pm

    T-72 ΜΒΤ modernisation and variants #2 - Page 11 Scree812
    T-72 ΜΒΤ modernisation and variants #2 - Page 11 Scree813
    T-72 ΜΒΤ modernisation and variants #2 - Page 11 Scree814
    Another T-72 with a different jammer, this one has 360° coverage.

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    marcellogo
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    Post  marcellogo Sun Apr 07, 2024 12:39 pm

    Hole wrote:[url=https://servimg.com/view/19891322/9449]
    Another T-72 with a different jammer, this one has 360° coverage.

    Surely look much better, other resembled as they have mounted a makeshift DJ set on to entertain the troops with a Shaman's live session.

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    Post  diabetus Tue Apr 09, 2024 4:04 pm

    Seems like it should be top priority to install APUs in every fielded vehicle to power these jammers even when the engine isn't running.
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    Post  GarryB Wed Apr 10, 2024 12:26 pm

    Most diesel engined tanks use very little fuel when idling... you might notice most bus drivers keep their engines running even if they are sitting still for a long period of time.

    With T-80s with gas turbines then the case for APUs is bigger... most command tanks with extra radio sets already have APUs to power them, but for most vehicles it would be a useful addition and perhaps could have other systems attached to it like drones on a tether etc.
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    Post  diabetus Wed Apr 10, 2024 4:29 pm

    GarryB wrote:Most diesel engined tanks use very little fuel when idling... you might notice most bus drivers keep their engines running even if they are sitting still for a long period of time.

    With T-80s with gas turbines then the case for APUs is bigger... most command tanks with extra radio sets already have APUs to power them, but for most vehicles it would be a useful addition and perhaps could have other systems attached to it like drones on a tether etc.

    Fuel consumption isn't the only issue, running the engine causes a much larger heat signature than just running an APU. There's a reason why the T-90M received one.
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    Post  GarryB Thu Apr 11, 2024 2:49 am

    This is true, but materials like Nakidka and external coatings and even metal frames with ERA blocks on them will not be heated by the engine running so they will conceal the engine heat from multiple useful angles.

    Using heated decoys with your real vehicles with their heat signature concealed makes more sense than having APUs, though the added digitalisation with all the electronics on vehicles these days a decent APU would be valuable.

    A small gas turbine based APU can be rather compact and quite powerful, while at the same time not use a lot of fuel because they are not run under load, so they can run at efficient speeds to avoid excessive waste of fuel.

    New designs seem to separate the fuel driven power supply from the electric drive wheels, so technically the fuel driven engine is essentially an APU... the main power unit being batteries.
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    Post  lyle6 Thu Apr 11, 2024 3:29 am

    APUs are becoming mandatory because high power electronics like radios and jammers require a steady source of electricity. A generator mechanically coupled to an engine will have its output fluctuate in response to dynamic mechanical loads on the latter. At best you have power cycling issues with the equipment. The worst that can happen is you stall on the field and your electronics stop working too.

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    Post  Hole Sat Jun 15, 2024 9:28 pm

    T-72 ΜΒΤ modernisation and variants #2 - Page 11 Photo-23
    BMR-3 mine clearer

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    Post  lyle6 Fri Jul 05, 2024 11:59 pm


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    TMA1
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    Post  TMA1 Sat Jul 06, 2024 3:28 am

    The guy ruined his intro. Otherwise fascinating video.
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    Post  lyle6 Sat Jul 20, 2024 7:34 am


    And there it is. The ideal drone cage. Excellent coverage of the turret all around, but more importantly the turret can still traverse a full 360 degrees. Great visibility too.

    Note the extended rear cage. Most FPV pilots are trained to trail a tank and hit them at the unprotected bustle for NATO MBTs or the exposed nape for Soviet MBTs. The idea being to blow up the ammo and kill the crew, or failing that, damage the turret ring and significantly degrade the combat potential of the tank until major repairs are made.

    The hull remains unprotected but thats not really a problem. FPV drones have issues with the ground bouncing off its own signal when they get around 1-2 m off the ground so hull hits are seldom done on purpose.

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    Post  JohninMK Fri Aug 02, 2024 4:34 pm

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    Post  GarryB Sat Aug 03, 2024 12:41 pm

    Nice.

    Notice at about 54 seconds when he is on the turret and looking to the left of the panoramic sight with the roof mounted HMG mount you can see an open box on the side of the turret bustle that seems to be filled with track links.

    Useful and further protection for bustle loaded ammo.

    Those thick rubber or plastic sheets will certainly make things harder for FPV drones to get clean hits without obscuring the Tank commanders vision... and it would also block the IR heat from the engine and the engine deck for weapons like Javelin and drones with thermal cameras.
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    Post  galicije83 Sun Aug 04, 2024 9:24 am

    APS will do more to protect tanks then thia type of improvisation. Still APS is miles away of puting it in service and testing it ir real combat. Belusov says that MfD RF paid for APS, but they never be made and send to army. So some one take this money in their pockets
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    Post  lyle6 Sun Nov 17, 2024 7:46 pm


    Really? Reverse as the lead vehicle in an ambush? Razz

    The War Thunder tank school is going to get so many people killed. Use some common sense. Shocked

    The way I see it the T-72 crew did their job. When the shooting started they immediately went on the offensive, charging straight out of the killbox while accurately firing back (and hitting) at least one of the enemy vehicle that was eventually found abandoned and droned. Popping smoke is counter-productive once you have sight of your targets.

    They were only unlucky the first hit took out the left track which made the vehicle pivot to the left once the tank has ran its left track out.

    If anything this episode shows just how shit the Leopard 2's antiquated thermals is. Misidentifying the MBT and IFV at practically point blank range and shooting the wrong shell for each - tsk, tsk, tsk.

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