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    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #6

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:19 pm

    Talking seriously, the fact was objectively proven. Gerans are using tons of commercial grade electronics supplied worldwide.
    You can't drain that supply, because the things can be just purchased on Ebay.
    Another fun fact is, that even id a chip or board had a "Texas Instruments" marking, it means perfectly nothing. It could have been supplied straight from the Chinese factory. Or Malaysian factory.
    The west was not capable to cut off the Soviets from being supplied with modern electronics, considering that they had a monopoly for its production. That was carried locally. By a few well known and heavily secured facilities. Yeah, they will do now. Pretty sure! Laughing

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    Post  sepheronx Wed Feb 15, 2023 9:07 pm

    mass production of older node chips in Russia has existed for quite some time. Most drones and even camera's do not need much of anything new. 180nm chips have been in mass production for forever now in Russia. 90nm is also in rather high production rate. I could wager a lot of the chips used in these can be produced on even older than 180nm as besides a DSP core, it can be rather basic anyway. Same with missiles. If an old 180nm processor is enough for an advanced radar system, then.... you get my drift.

    Only reason to go commercial than others is to open up production for much more needed advanced chips and just purchase tons of MIPS/RISC chips outside and yeah, China, you can pretty much get pallets of systems with these chips for nothing. Hell, you can purchase pallets of servers running Xeon's v3's for extremely cheap now and I can bet Chinese private groups are selling pallets of those to Russia for next to nothing.

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    Post  Big_Gazza Wed Feb 15, 2023 11:30 pm

    JohninMK wrote:Current Brit view

    ..is a close up of their own thighs as they bend over double in an effort to auto-fellate themselves in a deep dreaming state where the British Empire still rules the waves, Britain is still a global powerhouse, the pound sterling is still the dominant currency, the English cricket team is capable of winning on occassion, and all of those grubby little brown people (including their cardboard cutout PM) never landed on the shores of Old Blighty.

    I hold the nation of my birth in COMPLETE CONTEMPT. Didn't bother to read even one single fcking stupid word of that infantile russophobic word salad. Razz

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    Post  ALAMO Wed Feb 15, 2023 11:57 pm

    Jokes aside ...
    Brits have made some 400 pcs of tanks lately.
    Not last year. Not in a decade. In bloody FIVE DECADES.
    This discussion is carried from the perspective of a different universe.
    Royal Ordnance factory doesn't have the tools, skills, procedures, and personnel to copy Russian production characteristics.
    Each Brit who is carrying his alternatively educated opinion is talking that with a spoiled construct already.
    You can replace a barrel of every single Soviet/Russian arms in field conditions. It is a replacement part that is being produced in advance and stocked. You just take out the worn one and put in a new one. Guns are made for that purpose - something that only Pzh2000 is capable of.
    The worn one is shipped back to the factory for recalibration and testing and put on stock.

    We are discussing the comedy of western tanks delivery to 404, but we haven't even started to argue that seriously.

    How many out of 14 Ch2 will be even capable to arrive on the battlefield? Considering malfunction ratio, infrastructure obstacles, lack of tank carriers, and untrained crews. TEN?
    How those will be repaired?
    So we are talking about creating an alternative logistic chain to supply a PLATOON?
    Delivery of L30 ammunition through half of Europe to supply a PLATOON?
    It is ridiculous. The costs of that will be much higher than any kind of gains.
    This is a circus. Clown show.

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    Post  Mir Thu Feb 16, 2023 1:31 am

    Alamo I have only one word for you...BRIMSTONE! pale

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    Post  ALAMO Thu Feb 16, 2023 2:21 am

    You have a strong sarcasm day bro Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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    Post  Mir Thu Feb 16, 2023 3:13 am

    Just having some fun before Friday kicks in Laughing

    (though some are just not worth any response) Sleep

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    Post  limb Thu Feb 16, 2023 12:08 pm

    Current Brit view

    When the T-14 Armata tank was sensationally unveiled at the 9 May Victory Day parade, in 2015, it embarrassingly broke down in front of thousands of onlookers during rehearsals. This proved an augury. Seven years later it can be stated with confidence the Armata story is over. This article explains its demise and wider implications.

    The origins of T-14 Armata lie in the cancelled T-95 (Object 148). This tank, a casualty of the troubled 1990s, was finally abandoned in 2010. Conceptual vehicles with unmanned turrets had existed since the 1980s (CIA Top Secret ‘Soviet Tank Programs’, NI IIM 84-10016, 1 Dec 84 offers interesting historical perspectives on these designs). However, in the case of T-14 Armata the idea did not start from the cancelled T-95, or even a tank design, but with an engine.

    Some context is necessary. All Russian tank engines, remarkably, are descended from the highly successful V-2 diesel engine designed in 1931 at the Kharkov Locomotive Plant (now destroyed by Russian forces). The V-84 (T-72s), V-92S2F (T-72B3s, T-90s), the UTD-20 (BMP-1s and BMP-2s), and UTD-29 (BMP-3s) are further upgrades of this engine. The V-2 is the Kalashnikov of tank engines. The exception to this practical Soviet approach is the T-64. This tank was fitted with the 5TDF engine, a failed attempt to copy a German wartime bomber engine. It is for this reason that the 2-3,000 T-64s in storage will never return to service.

    T-14 Armata also started with a new engine: a Russian copy of the German X-shaped Simmering SLA 16 engine (also known as the Porsche Tour 212). The Russian engine was designated the A-85-3. However, Transdiesel Design Bureau did not design the engine for a tank but rather as a unit for compressor oil and gas pumping stations. It proved a flop and failed to make any sales despite repeated demonstrations at exhibitions.

    Designed around the engine

    By a roundabout and unclear route, Uralvagonzavod (UVZ) – Russia’s main tank manufacturer – decided to use the engine as the basis of a novel tank: the T-14 Armata. The tank was designed around the engine and not the other way round. It seemed a good idea: the A-85-3 was smaller and more powerful, if heavier, than the V-92S2F now fitted to the modern T-72B3s and T-90s. However, this decision had two important and deleterious consequences. The A-85-3 did not sell because it was complex, manifested too many problems, and was difficult to maintain. The engine needed many more run-hours to refine the design.

    It is assumed UVZ was confident the problems would be rectified over time. They have not been and the A-85-3 remains a problem engine. The second consequence has followed from the size of the engine. A quick solution might have been to abandon the A-85-3 and refit T-14 Armata with the proven V-92S2F – except the latter does not fit, it is bigger. The only realistic engineering solution now is to start again. Currently, no authority appears willing to accept this reality.


    In July 2021, the Russian MOD television channel TV Zvezda broadcast a documentary on T-14 Armata under its ‘Military Acceptance’ strand. The programme was filmed at the normally secretive 38th NII BTVT which celebrated its 90th anniversary last year and remains Russia’s premier armoured vehicle trials facility. A viewer of the 30-minute slot was treated to a futuristic world including rare footage of the inside of the T-14 Armata crew capsule.
    T-14 Armata: a technologist’s dream tank, or nightmare? Source: Voennoye Obozreniye https://tvzvezda.ru/news/20217101156-SkKRH.html

    The problem with all the gizmos is the microelectronics. Russian industry generally has been critically dependent on foreign microelectronics and associated technologies. These are no longer available due to sanctions (hence the joke Russian defence’s main supplier has become AliExpress). Captured Russian equipment such as drones reveals components are being sourced from wherever they can be found (including stolen Swedish traffic cameras in the case of the Orlan-10 UAV).

    The perennial Russian problem of corruption has only worsened challenges posed by sanctions. The Volgograd Krasny Oktyabr (‘Red October’) plant which makes the armour plates for Russian tanks was declared bankrupt in 2018. Millionaire-owner Dmitry Gerasimenko is on the international wanted list for allegedly embezzling a loan of $65 million and transferring 6.2 billion roubles abroad. Such tales litter Russian industry. Since 2011, a staggering 72,000 officials have appeared before the courts on corruption charges. In 2022 alone (so much for patriotism) 60 defence industry officials and 250 public procurement officials have been prosecuted, 27 of whom were convicted of violations in the implementation of the state defence order.

    Lack of an assembly line

    The final, practical and mundane reason why T-14 Armata will not become a production tank is because there is no assembly line. All models to date have been assembled by hand (like luxury cars). A sum of 64 million roubles was reportedly allocated to build the assembly line. The plant shell and workshops were built but are empty. Contracts were signed but Western machine tools and other technology were never supplied due to sanctions (the same story has now unfolded with Russia’s moribund automotive industry facing an uncertain future with the departure of Western and Far Eastern car manufacturers). As many as 200 suppliers would need to be re-profiled. This will not happen now.

    As relevantly, UVZ is fully engaged in sustaining the T-72B3 and T-90M assembly lines, desperately needed to replace war losses (Omsktransmash, the other tank plant, is refurbishing T-62Ms). At the time of writing, at least 1,594 tanks have been lost including 448 T-72B3-series tanks, and 37 T-90-series tanks that remain rare in Ukraine. The Russian Army started the war with 2,600 operational tanks, of which around 1,000 were ‘modern’. It took UVZ roughly a decade to produce or upgrade the ‘modern’ fleet. It will take an equally long and probably lengthier time to recover Russia’s decimated tank regiments.

    T-14 Armata, in the end, proved a story of technology over-reach. ‘The fact remains that the T-14 will remain a prototype toy with no chance of mass production’, Russian defence journalist Roman Skomorokhov has sentenced. The root problem with the engine means ‘the tank moves satisfactorily only under the cover of a group of technicians and engineers’. Only one experimental company was ever formed anyway in Central Military District (CVO) and the chances it will appear on a frontline, except for propaganda purposes, are small.

    More than a novel tank is lost. In June 2015, The Royal United Services institute (RUSI) hosted an event on Armata, presented by the knowledgeable Ukrainian Igor Sutyagin. The talks highlighted the programme was about a family of ‘Armata’ vehicles (T-15 heavy IFV, T-16 BREM-T ARRV, K-25 Kurganets and others). It is highly unlikely any of these projects will now proceed in the near/mid-term or at all. The future looks much like the out-dated Soviet past. As a final blow T-14 Armata’s improved 2A82-IM 125mm cannon – an undeniable upgrade on comparatively under-gunned Russian tanks – will not serve on T-90M. The breech block doesn’t fit.

    https://wavellroom.com/2023/02/10/armata-the-story-is-over/

    The points in this article are copied from skoromokhov's article in topwar.ru.
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    Post  lyle6 Thu Feb 16, 2023 1:46 pm

    Yes, lower lifeforms subsist on animal refuse.

    Any other insight we don't know about?

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    Post  ALAMO Thu Feb 16, 2023 2:12 pm

    Dont't understand you bro.
    Some chimp forced the fence or something?
    Should I take a bat and carry a punitive operation in cages?
    Call me a hunter and show a prey Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

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    Post  GarryB Thu Feb 16, 2023 6:36 pm

    Talking seriously, the fact was objectively proven. Gerans are using tons of commercial grade electronics supplied worldwide.

    The Gerans are licence built versions of Iranian drones that used components from all over the place... obviously some components the Russians will already have a supply of and will substitute their own components rather than try to source the parts the way Iran sourced them... they might even make a bit of money offering to sell these Russian parts to Iran so they can have better quality parts cheaper and easier and only buy stuff they can't get via the black market.

    There will be plenty of components only one country makes in bulk and everyone uses, which means such components are generally easier to get from third or fourth parties... look and China and India buying oil and creating oil based products to sell to the west... it goes both ways dudes... the people at the coal face don't give a shit about sanctions or the political goals of their stupid overlords they didn't vote for anyway, they have things to build and want to buy the parts they need to build it... and on the other side they make parts and sell them and if they don't someone else will and they just wont make any money in those sales.


    What is hard to believe is that western politicians don't understand this and of course the reality is that they do and their business interests probably benefit from this sort of stuff.

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    Post  Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E Sun Feb 19, 2023 5:54 am


    @200_zoka
    New Armata and two BMPT Terminators at UralVagonZavod
    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #6 - Page 4 FpVPklcWAAIBEGr?format=jpg&name=medium
    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #6 - Page 4 FpVPk2pX0AEMvaT?format=jpg&name=large
    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #6 - Page 4 FpVPlA6X0AEhVw3?format=jpg&name=900x900

    No production line, yes?

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    Post  flamming_python Sun Feb 19, 2023 6:51 am

    Well you can see that it's all done by hand, with no machinery there, due to Western sanctions Twisted Evil

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    Post  caveat emptor Sun Feb 19, 2023 8:24 am

    Worst thing is that "British Army Intelligence Corps officer" copied, almost word for word, that loser Skomorokhov from Topwar.ru.

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    Post  GarryB Sun Feb 19, 2023 6:37 pm

    It was probably co written with the CIA and some cowardly 5th columnist Russian to tweak it and make it sound believable... enough facts to hide the lies and stereotypes...

    Did you know the autoloader still takes arms off people trying to load the gun manually for instance? Rolling Eyes

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    Post  caveat emptor Sun Feb 19, 2023 8:52 pm

    No CIA. This is just some communist doomer.
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    Post  GarryB Sun Feb 19, 2023 9:36 pm

    How long before they find him and fund his work... or offer him a job in a US think tank to post further shit.

    If it is being reposted in the west such rags will try to contact him to get him to write more... this is the shit they love...

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    Post  flamming_python Mon Feb 20, 2023 4:49 am

    Hope they do, this propaganda serves less to convince others and more to blind themselves - which is a good thing.

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    Post  caveat emptor Mon Feb 20, 2023 5:15 am

    He's been widely quoted already as " Russian military analyst". This is not new.
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    Post  AlfaT8 Mon Feb 20, 2023 6:56 am

    "He's been widely quoted already as " Russian military analyst". This is not new. "

    With analyst like these, who needs infiltrators.
    Moscow doesn't even need to do anything, just sit back and watch the West drink it's own Kool-aid.

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    Post  GarryB Mon Feb 20, 2023 8:30 pm

    Hiring clowns for entertainment is normal... hiring clowns as advisors is the main cause of the wests downfall... since the end of the cold war all the Russia experts are clowns... and the ones that aren't are ignored as Putins puppets... only when they try to tell the truth of course...

    How can you compare the truth with what all the other Russian experts are saying... well the truth must be Putin propaganda obviously... except when your experts assure you that Putin is on the brink of collapse and has cancer and the only reason the last lot of sanctions failed was because they were not strong enough and the next round will break them... at some point perhaps they might start to realise they are using the wrong advisors... but the longer they follow these clowns the more damaged the west will be and for the rest of the world that is a good thing.

    Russian military analyst... like Pavel Felgenhauer? Hahaha... the Georgian troops were going to wipe out those Russian idiots in 2008 according to him because of all the HATO training and experience and the dire state of the Russian military.

    The Georgian forces were not nothing but he seriously underestimated the Russian military even though their state was actually poor in terms of equipment and systems... it was the kick in the backside the Russian political structure needed to fix their military and realise the west was not a friend at all and would never be no matter what Russia did... except if they gave a total surrender like Germany and Japan.

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    Post  lyle6 Tue Feb 21, 2023 4:55 am

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #6 - Page 4 FpVPklcWAAIBEGr?format=jpg&name=medium
    This is old footage. Take note of the sharp bow as the current model has it blunted:
    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #6 - Page 4 Captur13
    More importantly aside from the T-14 the same assembly line manufactures BMPT and T-90M vehicles.
    Both of which have seen a massive increase in numbers deployed.
    If they really wanted to, that same factory can churn out exclusively Armatas instead.
    Fortunately NATO just gave them a very nice excuse to do so.

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    Post  Hole Tue Feb 21, 2023 12:36 pm

    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #6 - Page 4 Fpfxix11
    According to some sources this is in Belgorod.

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    Post  galicije83 Tue Feb 21, 2023 1:24 pm

    So they will test it now in war zone to see how T-14 is doing on real battlefield...

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    Post  Isos Tue Feb 21, 2023 1:29 pm

    Or they are just moving it around from test facilities back to repair centers.

    Those t-14 are made for tests by the army. I doubt they want it on the battlefield when they are just learning how to use it

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