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    [Official] Armata Discussion thread #6

    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Tue Feb 21, 2023 5:34 pm

    The T-14 is a weapon made for war. Its true test is in battle.

    Why would it miss the opportunity to fight the most dangerous conflict between the world's superpowers since WW2?

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Tue Feb 21, 2023 8:27 pm

    Wasn't there talk of special units set up to go into combat with all the newest and best gear to test it in real combat.... such a unit would use Armatas... as tanks and as BMPs and also Coalition... which will be interesting.

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    Arrow


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    Post  Arrow Wed Feb 22, 2023 2:45 am

    Why would it miss the opportunity to fight the most dangerous conflict between the world's superpowers since WW2? wrote:

    Korea and Vietnam were probably more dangerous? The Ukrainian conflict is now more like World War I in miniature. That is, a war of positional rather than maneuvering.
    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Fri Mar 03, 2023 9:48 am

    A company of T-14 MBTs with a T-16 RV.

    The ground has started thawing so I don't expect much action from these units until summer. The delay would be beneficial though, since UVZ needs time to ramp up production just as they had with the succesful T-90M production at first.

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    Post  ALAMO Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:01 am

    The comment in the background is hilarious Very Happy
    "Those don't have ERA!"
    Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
    I guess he hardly recognizes what he sees.

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:14 am

    The Romans also didn't expect Hannibal to lead his elephants through the Alps. But he did

    You can't assume anything, thaw or no thaw. Russian vehicles are built for even the muddiest conditions in mind, although of course to ignore the effect of weather conditions is foolish.

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    Post  ALAMO Fri Mar 03, 2023 10:27 am

    Watching NATO struggle to supply a dozen of working tanks 20 years old, the thing is getting funnier and funnier.

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    Post  Mir Sat Mar 04, 2023 6:52 am

    Lyle6 wrote:A company of T-14 MBTs with a T-16 RV.

    I would feel a bit less nervous if they send a platoon of T-15's to tag along as cover Laughing
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    Post  ALAMO Sat Mar 04, 2023 7:02 am

    You saw the face of that poor Khokhol destined for Leo driver ...
    He knows already ...

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    Post  Swgman_BK Sat Mar 04, 2023 7:44 am

    What is likely to be the reaction to the T-14 if Russia sends it out and it absolutely beats everything Ukraine has been given? T90MS have already been struck by NLAWs and Javelins and a good number have deflected the thing. I wonder what the T-14 will do. I imagine it will be able to shrug off any Western ATGM. I heard on VK that Kornet failed to destroy one. I cant find the video now but a developmental piece of what would be refined into T14 Armour was fired at with a Kornet and it destroyed the Kornet head from at least 3m away. I think if something can beat a Kornet then it is certified to be tough. Not even the Challenger can do that.

    The Kornet has about 3x as much explosive power as a Javelin or NLAW and is a faster missile. If a tank can survive that , its armor is darn good.

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    Post  flamming_python Sat Mar 04, 2023 9:03 am

    T-90MS is adequate enough for anything the West is sending; whether Leo 2A4s or even the Leo 2A6s with these chimera crews of hastily trained Ukrainian loaders/drivers with perhaps NATO gunners and commanders.

    Of course though the best solution to an enemy tank, is not your own tank, but an anti-tank weapon.
    So long as they're in the right place at the right time.

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    Post  lyle6 Sat Mar 04, 2023 6:01 pm

    Mir wrote:I would feel a bit less nervous if they send a platoon of T-15's to tag along as cover Laughing
    They will. As the Russians have rediscovered, lightly armored IFVs just don't cut it anymore - you need heavy MBT-level armor to close the gap with the enemy's position and to stay and provide fire support. Remember, every meter you cover is one less meter your stormtroopers won't have to cover on foot. And if you have proper MBT level protection with the infantry support oriented firepower of an IFV you already have a BMPT - no need for dedicated vehicles.

    Swgman_BK wrote:What is likely to be the reaction to the T-14 if Russia sends it out and it absolutely beats everything Ukraine has been given?
    Not like there's anything they can do about it. NATO simply lacks the industrial capacity to support the force structure it had 10 years ago let alone realize a thorough modernization of its ground forces. They'll come up with token numbers of wunderwaffe but the core army would mostly be composed of obsolete cold war trash.

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    Post  GarryB Sat Mar 04, 2023 6:13 pm

    They have talked about having a unit with all the latest and best equipment for testing interoperability, and also to work out what sort of recon gathering assets and  other support they would need to get the best out of it.

    For instance sending a single T-14 means it has good fire power and good armour and good self defence equipment, but on its own if it did run over a mine or run out of fuel or whatever then their existing armour recovery vehicles could not drag it back to safety and friendly lines, so taking T-16s makes sense.

    Of course T-14 on its own is OK but it would be better if it had the support of T-15s and Terminators and other things that allow it to make the most use of its sensors and information sharing capabilities like drones and modern attack aircraft.

    Most tanks that get destroyed likely don't even see what hits them, whether it is because it was an RPG crew that were hiding behind something and didn't pop up and fire till the target tank was 40m away... which obviously makes things hard, but that is what drones would be useful for... spotting ambushes.

    Being a unit with all the best and testing new stuff I would expect a T-72 robot vehicle would lead the way with mine rollers attached to deal with land mines, and fitted with electronics to set off explosives too so even deeply buried mines intended to take out the third or fourth vehicle to pass over it will be set off or neutralised by destroying their electronics etc.

    They would have all sorts of drones of course as well as other robot types that can be sent forward to probe defences and shoot things up a bit...

    The point is that these are weapons of war and if they have faults and weaknesses it makes more sense to find out about them now so they can fix or modify them or to change tactics so their weaknesses don't matter.

    This is not about weapons sales but defence of Russia and if they have a system that doesn't work and needs to be upgraded or modified then it makes sense to find out sooner rather than later.

    Unifying their air defence into one branch that works together and supports every other branch of the Russian military would be a good step forward too.

    In the conflict in Georgia the VDV and the Naval Infantry found they worked better when working together and so after the conflict in 2008 they started training together and learned to work together properly which likely helped at the start of this conflict where the VDV and Naval Infantry worked together on this attack.

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    Post  Arrow Sun Mar 05, 2023 2:41 am

    Are there going to be any new heavy ERA on the T-14 or will it be a Relikt ERA?
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    Post  lancelot Sun Mar 05, 2023 3:21 am

    T-14 is supposed to use Malachit ERA and Afghanit APS.

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    Post  lyle6 Sun Mar 05, 2023 6:59 am

    Actually the ERA is called Monolith. And no, Nii Stali never released any specs for export customers to gawk at - so you know its some real gucci stuff.

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    Post  Swgman_BK Sun Mar 05, 2023 11:52 pm

    I have a feeling the T14 is only for export on paper. But in reality, Russia probably has many T14s and isn't planning on exporting any. Most of Chinas latest stuff is not getting exported either. The J20 and J35 will never get exported. Russia might be taking the same route.
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    Post  lancelot Mon Mar 06, 2023 4:18 am

    No. It is just that no one wants to import what is basically still a test vehicle. Most customers want something that is proven to work. Between that and US sanctions on Russian weapons exports via CAATSA there have been no T-14 sales thus far. This could change if it proves itself in Ukraine and enters even limited production. But at this point it probably makes little sense to switch from T-90M to T-14.

    As for the J-35 the Chinese have tried to sell it abroad, but no one has been biting for much the same reasons, i.e. it is a paper aircraft. And their traditional clients for aircraft cannot afford it either.
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    Post  Arrow Mon Mar 06, 2023 5:09 am

    But at this point it probably makes little sense to switch from T-90M to T-14 wrote:

    It makes sense because the T-14 is a significant improvement even over the T-90M. It is much better in every way and it protects the crew better. Of course, it is better to make large quantities of T-90M during the war. Switch to the T-14 after the war, especially if it works.

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    Post  caveat emptor Mon Mar 06, 2023 8:43 am

    Batch of tanks seen on video was headed for Alabino in preparation for Victory parade.
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    Post  Mir Mon Mar 06, 2023 8:44 am

    Good - now I'm less nervous Laughing
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    Post  DerWolf Mon Mar 06, 2023 12:49 pm

    Does it have any countermeasure against mines?
    lyle6
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    Post  lyle6 Mon Mar 06, 2023 5:15 pm

    It has those cables running around the vehicle for actively controlling the vehicle's magnetic signature. Useful against all manner of mines and missiles with magnetic sensors embedded. There's also heavy ERA skirts designed to nullify tandem shaped charge warheads so its definitely overkill against most off route mines.

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    Post  GarryB Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:20 pm

    No one wants to buy a test vehicle.... so why are countries buying F-35s?

    The T-14 is more expensive than the T-90s and the latest model T-90s are actually very good and less of a risk.

    If you want to buy T-14s right now parts will be classified and not for export so what you will get is probably a T-14 shell but early design components and perhaps components going in to T-90 upgrades instead of the latest and the best the Russian troops will be getting.

    Unless you buy thousands of them and spend billions doing so it does not make sense to hand over all that tank design technology even to a trusted country because the CIA is everywhere and criminals work for everyone...

    Of course rather than improve its export potential it would be in Russias interests to get T-14s into real combat to see how they perform and what works and what does not. For it to work properly it would need to be working with all the things it was designed to work with... ie infantry with Ratnik III for instance which might allow better communication and coordination, and of course drones and artillery and air support communication would be important too.

    Most designers work best when they listen to users feedback about problems doing this or that... sometimes solutions are actually easy, but the designer didn't think of it because he didn't understand the problems on the front line properly.

    The testing of the Terminators seem to be a success...

    A few years ago I had a disagreement with someone who claimed the Terminator was terrible and could only fire one barrel at a time... pretty clear he was wrong.

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    Post  galicije83 Tue Mar 07, 2023 2:39 am

    And we will see pictures of destroyed t14, a ls we see of t90m, and many other tanks by mines...last 2-3 90m's was mined buy mines...what if UKrainians capture one, dmg buy mine..they will sent to us for evaluation...in my opinion this testing are wrong. They send t90m to us for testing, to see how relict works..this is wrong buy russians, because their enemy isnt some.tribe in midle east..its same people as they who knows how to fight and they are not chickens...

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