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    Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors #2


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    Post  GunshipDemocracy Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:25 am

    since Germanium and microelectronics seem to go together i decided to post it here Cool Cool Cool

    The project for the production of high-purity germanium in Russia will start in 2023

    24.10.2022 19:30:38
    Moscow. October 24th. Interfax - The Shvabe holding plans to launch the production of a highly pure material - semimetal germanium, according to the state corporation Rostec, which the company is a part of.
    The Shvabe holding of the Rostec State Corporation is one of the few Russian producers of germanium that has the necessary competencies. This material is used in radio electronics, solar energy, laser technology, infrared optics and other areas. Today we are discussing a program to launch the production of high-purity germanium under the program import substitution for various types of devices," said Oleg Yevtushenko, executive director of Rostec, whose words are quoted in a message posted on the state corporation's website on Monday.
    According to Yevtushenko, with their help in the nuclear industry, at customs control, as well as in the production of isotopes and in other areas of activity, gamma radiation is recorded.
    Yevtushenko noted that in Russia the production of especially pure germanium has not been established to date. "The practical start of the project is scheduled for 2023," he said.
    It is reported that, among other things, germanium is ideal for the manufacture of lenses used in infrared optical systems. The material transmits radiation in the range of 2-16 microns. It is in this range that both military and civilian systems operate to detect objects by their own radiation. In this case, the maximum range of such devices depends on the diameter of the lens. At present, lenses with a diameter of at least 250 mm are also made from germanium single crystals.
    "In addition, solar batteries on germanium panels on board spacecraft supply electricity to all equipment, as well as charge electrochemical batteries. The use of germanium gives solar batteries increased mechanical strength and reduces the overall weight of the structure. Germanium products are superior to traditional silicon counterparts in terms of conversion efficiency solar energy into electrical energy.
    Extra pure germanium - a material with a purity of up to 99.99999999999%. For comparison, the standard purity of germanium produced in Russia corresponds to the level of 99.999%. The need for devices for detecting gamma radiation is noted today in a variety of industries.

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    Post  Kiko Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:13 am

    Russian microelectronics will require up to 800 billion rubles of investments, by Oleg Kapranov for Rossiskaya Gazeta. 11.15.2022.

    The development of microelectronics in Russia in the next 17 years will require 700-800 billion rubles. This is stated in the materials of the study "Yakov and Partners" (former Russian division of McKinsey), received by "RG". The data was published against the backdrop of regular US sanctions against the Russian IT industry.

    According to analysts, the most popular chips in Russia today are those manufactured according to the process technology of 90 or more nanometers (nm): the demand for them is about 30,000 wafers per month. Slightly less in demand are more modern microchips - with a process technology of 45 nm or less, which are used for personal and supercomputers and memory cards, the need for such components is estimated at 1,000 plates per month.

    At the same time, the need for chips will only grow: for example, by 2030-2035, demand may exceed 100-150 thousand plates per month. So, the authors conclude, it is necessary to develop our own production. Particular emphasis is placed on the fact that more modern chips produced according to the 45-90 nm process technology are not widely used in industry. "To cover such an acute shortage, it is necessary to urgently launch idle machines according to the basic (90 nm and higher) technical process, as well as additionally ensure the import of technological equipment from friendly countries, including considering the purchase of used equipment from manufacturers from Southeast Asia" , - notes Tigran Sahakyan, one of the co-authors of the report.

    As noted in the study, thanks to cooperation with the countries of Southeast Asia, Russia will be able to launch the production of microchips in the basic segment in the required quantity in three to four years, and by 2030 fully meet domestic demand for a critical range of microchips.

    At the same time, investments to expand production and subsidize R&D can amount to about 400-500 billion rubles, half of which is budgetary funds. More than half of this investment should be in capital expenditures, which will create the foundation for the transition to more modern technological processes and eventually abandon imports. And by 2040, it is necessary to develop competencies in the development and manufacture of not only basic, but also modern chips. To achieve this goal, additional investments will be required - up to 300 billion rubles.

    The picture of demand for components, according to the researchers, does not quite match the data on the global market, which are cited by IC Insights. This report notes that at the moment, about 70% of the chips are produced on technical processes no higher than 65 nm. About 10% more falls on 90-130 nm and only the remaining 20% ​​- on 180+ nm.

    The interlocutor of "RG" in the microelectronics market notes that it is a mistake to assume that only consumer electronics needs cutting-edge components, while strategic industries can get by with slower solutions where reliability is a priority. "It is noteworthy that it was the US Department of Defense that became the first customer at the new Intel factory under construction, which plans to produce chips using the 1.8 nanometer process technology," he says.

    There are doubts that such large-scale investments in production are necessary. In particular, this is exactly what the head of the Association of Russian Developers and Manufacturers of Electronics (ARPE) Ivan Pokrovsky thinks. According to him, technological dependence today is formed primarily from key microcircuits that determine the hardware platform for digital solutions. These are components that are designed and manufactured using a process technology of less than 28 nm.

    Half of the investment for the expansion of production and research may come from the budget.

    "Technologies of 90 nm and more are used mainly for peripheral microcircuits, the share of which in the total cost of digital solutions is significantly less, in addition, they are easier to replace with analogues from other companies from other countries. 90 nm technologies cannot cover the needs of the industry, much less information infrastructure needs," says Pokrovsky.

    According to the expert, modern communications, all cloud services, including artificial intelligence and modern weapons, require high-performance processors with topologies of less than 28 nm. No less important, Pokrovsky believes, is the fact that today in many countries of the world there is already an active construction of factories (more than 40) for the production of chips, and in the coming years, instead of competition for access to capacities, there will be competition for customers on the market.

    "As the Chinese semiconductor industry develops and production diversifies around the world, US sanctions will lose influence. Russian microprocessor developers need to gain weight and market share so that foreign factories fight for their orders," Pokrovsky notes. To be able to develop the latest and emerging microprocessors, you need to start with 90 nm, although these technologies do not cover the basic needs. "Investment in 90 nm and consistent progress towards thinner standards will allow over time (5-10 years) to restore our own scientific and technological school of semiconductor production," he adds.

    Today, more than 40 chip factories are being built in the world.

    The discussion about the ways of development of Russian microelectronics is taking place against the backdrop of reports of new sanctions imposed by the US government against Russian companies. US Secretary of State Anthony Blinken said in a statement that restrictive measures are being introduced against PPK Milandr because the company operates in the Russian electronics industry and is related to the military sphere. In addition, the US Treasury imposed sanctions against three more companies, according to its data, associated with PKK Milandr. These are companies from Armenia, Switzerland and Taiwan. Washington believes that these companies were used for sales abroad. In fact, we are talking about secondary sanctions, which are designed to cut off the Russian microelectronic industry from world markets.

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    Post  kvs Wed Nov 16, 2022 2:35 am

    There is no such thing as a 1.8 nm process.   If you want random transistor operation, then go for it.   But your deterministic
    programming will have no application on this hardware.  

    Claims of 7 nm, 5 nm and 2 nm resolutions are marketing BS.   These are not physical measures but "effective" resolutions produced
    by tricks that achieve switching speed and signal propagation scaled to the reference 90 nm process.   TSMC's 7 nm is 10 nm
    when analyzed with an electron microscope involving slicing up the chip.   People should not assume that the physical resolution
    increases that occurred for most of the last 60 years are progressing like nothing changed.

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    Post  lancelot Wed Nov 16, 2022 8:21 am

    The transistor density is still increasing. You have more transistors per area. They cannot make the transistor walls any thinner but they can make the transistors more vertical instead of horizontal. Which is the whole point behind FinFET and GAA. Transistors are taller and slimmer and you can put more of them in the same die area. The main issue is it used to come naturally that power consumption would decrease with each node shrink, just an optical reduction, and now it does not to the same degree. No more easy peasy. It will get to a point where there will be no significant power reduction. They keep needing to change the transistor architecture to reduce power consumption. GAA transistors are supposed to cut power consumption by 50% once they come out.

    As for that study with regards to demand for chip fabs in Russia it is probably taking into account previous demand to fabs, both national and foreign, to make Russian chips. But the thing is Russia imports way more foreign chips than those, and imported chip designs were supposed to be replaced with Russian designs at least in government institutions before the sanctions hit. So I think the total demand is probably a lot higher than that.

    As for the tools, like I said here before, Russia could get most if not all the tools for 65nm from Chinese manufacturers. But 28nm should only be available in some years.

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    Post  kvs Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:34 pm

    The transistor density increase is nowhere near what it was before from every "process shrink". So the alleged 5 nm TSMC process does
    not have 4 times the number of transistors per unit area as the 10 nm process. Like I wrote, the "nm" are marketing BS that refers
    to tricks. The problem with these tricks is that they cannot deliver all the way down to 2 nm. There is a lot of smug nonsense being
    spread around everywhere about how 2 nm is a real process resolution that is just waiting to be unleashed. There is no current real
    5 nm process and 2 nm is hitting the molecular cluster limit. There is no continuum thermodynamics at 2 nm. You need materials
    properties of the continuum to implement the transistor (FET, etc.) functionality.

    Moore's law is dead for a good reason.

    The term "3 nanometer" has no relation to any actual physical feature (such as gate length, metal pitch or gate pitch) of the
    transistors. According to the projections contained in the 2021 update of the International Roadmap for Devices and Systems published
    by IEEE Standards Association Industry Connection, a 3 nm node is expected to have a contacted gate pitch of 48 nanometers and a
    tightest metal pitch of 24 nanometers.[14] However, in real world commercial practice, "3 nm" is used primarily as a marketing term by
    individual microchip manufacturers to refer to a new, improved generation of silicon semiconductor chips in terms of increased transistor
    density (i.e. a higher degree of miniaturization), increased speed and reduced power consumption...

    Wikicrappia is still useful for some things.

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    Post  GarryB Thu Nov 17, 2022 10:19 am

    So it has become like fighter generations... the US will put F-15s back into production and call them 7th gen fighters because their failure to produce a working 5th fighter that was useful and affordable has bit them on the arse so hard they have to skip the 6th and go straight to the 7th gen which is affordable and working 5th gen without the stealth... 6th gen will be reserved for any improved aircraft Russia or China might put into production... it leaves space for their improvement without suggesting they are anywhere close to the level of the US in aircraft technology... Rolling Eyes

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    Post  kvs Fri Nov 18, 2022 1:26 pm

    We are now in a stagnation period of a sort. There is still some forward drift but it is not like it was a decade ago. We have to wait
    for photonics and possibly quantum computing to arrive. But the latter is a whole new domain and it will not be any time soon when
    it becomes mainstream. I hear about photonic ICs all the time but I do not see them around the corner.

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    Post  GarryB Sat Nov 19, 2022 1:14 am

    With such new technology being worked on I would hope that such technology might be incorporated into their plans to start producing their own equipment from the ground up... chips using different technology might benefit from 3D printing tech as well as new materials and design structures, which might result in everyone shifting to the new technology... chip design seems to focus on getting smaller, but they have already hit a wall, so an alternative path where they don't need to get any smaller but can still expand performance would be valuable and useful... and also something Russia could lead in.

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    Post  zepia Sun Nov 20, 2022 8:55 am

    Andrei Martyanov's latest video pointed me to this article.

    Russian microelectronics - not a myth, or big problems of small measurements

    The head of the European Commission, Ursula von der Leyen, is very wrong. The Russian "Daggers" and "Calibers" have their own "smart head" on their shoulders

    Vladimir Gundarov
    November 17, 2022, 11:00am

    With a difference of a week, two reputable American publications, The New York Times and The Washington Post, published materials written as if under a carbon copy, in which they revealed Le secret de Polichinelle: Russian communications equipment and remnants of cruise missiles, such as laser rangefinders and radar homing heads found in Ukraine, use American microelectronics. At the same time, the markings on the two chips showed that they were manufactured back in 2019.

    Damien Splitters, Deputy Director of Operations at Conflict Armament Research (CAR), a British research organization that tracks the supply of conventional weapons, ammunition and related military materials to conflict - affected areas, told the publication. "Modern Russian weapons and communications systems were built on the basis of Western chips," Damien Splitters pointedly stated.

    Is this true or fictional? We'll figure it out.

    From women's diseases to high technologies

    "President of All Europe" Ursula von der Leyen, speaking to the European Parliament, said:: "The Russian army is taking chips out of dishwashers and refrigerators to fix military equipment. They don't have semiconductors anymore. Russian industry is torn to shreds!"

    "Only two notorious "intellectuals" could believe this fake about chips-Ellochka Shchukina and Liz Truss. In fact, I suspect that von der Leyen herself didn't understand what she was saying. Because, as it was established, in the Russian semi-automatic washing machine "Fairy" the most difficult device was the XZK-B timer for switching washing modes. Maybe I took the wrong car apart in search of military chips?.."

    For understanding. A microchip is hundreds, thousands, or even millions of semiconductors placed on a quartz wafer. The more semiconductors there are, the more operations the microchip performs per unit of time. Its physical size also matters. The smaller it is, the better and, accordingly, more expensive. In fact, it is the brain of integrated circuits, which are divided into categories.

    And in Russia, these categories have a boring, meaningless name - "Acceptance", provided with numbers from 1 to 9. The last two mean the highest category of chips that are designed for rocket and space technology and nuclear weapons. In the West, they correspond to the categories of commercial, industrial, military and space. The sale of the last two categories of chips to Russia was carried out only with the permission of the US Department of Commerce, which oversees export control, and only in exceptional cases when they were needed, for example, for spacecraft flying to the ISS, or for creating spacecraft and other space equipment in cooperation with other space agencies within the framework of international programs..

       "And here is what is remarkable: there was a suspicion that the Russian automatic interplanetary station "Phobos-Grunt" could not rise to the calculated orbit precisely because it was created using American microchips of the military category, and the space category was required. In other words, not every chip is equally suitable for both a washing machine and a cruise missile. "Caliber", assembled from parts from the "washing machine", will not fly, and a washing machine with microchips from target designation and guidance systems will cost like a rocket. It would seem that this is quite understandable even for a gynecologist in his main specialty. But, apparently, not everything is so simple."

    There are other suggestions about the fake about chips from washing machines - most likely, von der Leyen wanted to humiliate Russia on purpose, and it is possible that her assistants who prepare her "cheat sheets" simply do not have information about the state of Russian microelectronics.

    Although the domestic microelectronics industry has recently really experienced not the best of times. In Stavropol, at the Signal radio factory, where they make electronic warfare systems and complexes for combat aircraft, including the famous Khibiny ,I happened to see a box full of foreign-marked chips on the assembly table. By the way, the stamp "FSB of the Russian Federation" on printed circuit boards, no matter how I looked at it, I didn't see it. Although the photos of printed circuit boards allegedly extracted from the Russian X-101 cruise missile, which have bypassed the Western media, have such a stamp, they say.

       "Where did it come from? Maybe it was completed with a retoucher?.. When asked about checking imported chips by the FSB special service for hidden "bookmarks", the company's specialists could not answer: it seems that imported chips are checked, but they don't know where and by whom. So the stamp "FSB of the Russian Federation" in the photos in the Western media is another fake, this time drawn, most likely, by the needlewomen of the so-called Center for Countering Disinformation, subordinate to the National Security Service of Ukraine, or by specialists of the East StratCom Task Force of the European External Action Service of the European Union. In terms of creating fakes, these organizations are worth each other."

    As for the use of imported components in Russian equipment, this information has never been hidden: yes, we use not only chips, but also many other, more "dimensional" equipment. Thus, according to the Government of the Russian Federation, in 2019, in the structure of the cost of ship components for military shipbuilding, the cost of foreign components reached 60%. In other words, the Navy in the modern shape of the ship's composition, even taking into account the price difference between domestic and imported components, was still about half domestic. Probably not yet.

    Needless to say, the former Russian government placed too much faith in the international division of labor and industrial cooperation. As it now turns out, shortsighted. Therefore, now there is nothing left but to learn from your own mistakes and remember the well-forgotten old ones.

    This is how Oboronprom survived

    And we have something to remember. For example, the world's first heavy drone was originally ours. Back in 1939, Ruben Chachikyan, who later became the chief designer of the Moscow Instrument Design Bureau Voskhod (the future JSC Aeropribor-Voskhod), developed an automatic control system for TB-3 and SB bombers, which performed the entire flight-from takeoff to landing inclusive - without a crew. Moreover, at the beginning of the Great Patriotic War, the TB-3 unmanned bomber with the Chachikyan system was tested in a combat situation. Unfortunately, it didn't go any further - the war prevented it.

       "In the era of the creation of the space rocket and nuclear shield, we were in the" thin " field of knowledge, technology and technology, which is microelectronics, if not ahead of, then kept up with developed industrial countries. In the 1970s and early 1980s, the USSR ranked second after the United States in terms of sales of microelectronic products."

    However, all developments were aimed at servicing only one department - the military. And when the defense order began to decline rapidly, and the state did not have enough money to convert production, all enterprises that worked for defense turned out to be lame ducks.

    That's when the import "strangled" the domestic manufacturer. This happened, for example, with the microelectronics workshop of the Scientific and Production Association of Measuring Equipment (NPO IT) in the city of Korolev near Moscow.

    The NPO made onboard computing systems, antenna complexes, systems for operational processing of telemetry information, and numerous sensor-converting equipment for space rockets. Ten years ago, I was able to visit the microelectronics shop of an NGO and see with my own eyes how they create chips for space technology. And the company's management did not hide the alarm: the products were manufactured using the technologies of the 70s of the last century, and no one gave money for updating and developing production, and the customer was in the singular - Roscosmos. And how many chips are required to launch a single space rocket? A maximum of a dozen, so the production of microchips became literally piece-by-piece, and it was necessary to feed a large team. So calculate what the cost price was.

       "And there was also competition within the rocket and space industry. The three space rocket companies accounted for 12 companies developing space-class chips. The result is quite natural: the most resourceful survived. And the attempts of NGO IT to "integrate" into the projects of the gas production industry ended in nothing. Now, according to Igor Davydov, chief designer for diversification and new types of products, a small section of the microelectronics workshop remains in the NGO, where only two people work. No demand - no supply, this is the law of the market.

    Here's another example. The Research Institute of Thermal Power Instrumentation with the participation of Aeropribor-Voskhod JSC has made an experimental sample of an on-board laser airspeed meter (LIVS), which could be useful for civil aircraft. "If an order is received for a baroinertial system, we will definitely make it, do not doubt it, "Vyacheslav Dyatlov, First Deputy Chief Designer of Aeropribor - Voskhod JSC, told me last spring. Although customers did not appear a year ago, now the company operates smoothly - it makes air signal systems for Tu-160, Tu-95, Tu-22 strategic bombers and for the most modern cruise missiles "Burevestnik" and "Caliber". And how will they load production when the volume of state defense orders is reduced?

    This is another sensitive issue. Patented inventions turn into innovations when they become commercial projects that bring profit to the patentee. In Russia, a lot of inventions are made, but not every invention becomes an innovation.

       "But be that as it may, the allocation of three trillion rubles for the technical re-equipment of defense plants within the framework of the Federal Target Program for the Development of the Defense Industry for 2011-2020 made it possible to purchase and install modern processing complexes made in Germany, Sweden, South Korea, and Japan in a short time. With such equipment, you can start diversification and import substitution right now."

    We are ours, we will build a new chip

    Almost from the very beginning, it was clear that cooperation with the West in the field of high technologies has pitfalls. And in 2015, for the first time in history, the Ministry of Industry and Trade of the Russian Federation approved the Regulation "On the procedure for using the electronic component base of foreign production to ensure the development, modernization and production of weapons, military and special equipment". The document was put into effect by the minutes of the meeting of the Board of the Military-Industrial Commission of the Russian Federation. The Head of the Department of Military Missions of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation brought it to his subordinates as a guidance document.

       "Every year, the Ministry of Industry and Trade and the Ministry of Defense issue multi-volume "Intersectoral Restrictive Lists", which list electrical and radio products allowed for use in weapons and military equipment, including integrated circuits, optoelectronic devices and quantum electronics products. As a result, now it is no longer permissible to use any imported microchip in domestic weapons and military equipment, but only the one that is included in the annually adjusted "Intersectoral Restrictive List"."

    In general, the program of import substitution in microelectronics is creaking, but it is being implemented. Domestic analogs of integrated circuits corresponding to the level of American ones produced in the last decade have appeared. This is a good indicator, considering that the return on investment in the production of microelectronics begins in 5-10 years.

    But it can also be faster. The multi-profile Russian IT company Sitronics Group has been producing chips with a size of 90 nm since 2012, and last year it started mass production of chips with a size of 60 nm. In 2016, the Russian Angstrom-T plant was put into operation, where the production of modern integrated circuits was resumed. The production capacity of the enterprise is 180 thousand products per year.

    The Micron Group of Companies is called the largest Russian manufacturer and exporter of microelectronics. According to information published on its official website, the group's share in the export of Russian electronics is 54%. JSC "Micron" produces over 4 billion microchips annually. The list of major domestic IT companies also includes the Moscow Center for SPARC Technologies, Baikal Electronics JSC and a dozen other enterprises and organizations. As the military says (and these are the main consumers), the personnel is assembled. The offensive plan has been developed and approved.

       "The industry plan, as follows from the" Strategy for the Development of the Electronic Industry of the Russian Federation for the period up to 2030", approved by the order of the Government of the Russian Federation in January 2020, provides for the development and industrial development of silicon technologies for the production of electronic components with topological standards of 65-45 nm, 28 nm, 14-12 nm, and even 7-5 nm. At the same time, microchips with a topological norm of 5 nm are going to be made first at foreign sites, but with the subsequent transfer of production to Russia. From this it follows that chips over 5 nm will be made in our country without contacting foreign manufacturers."

    A separate line in the "Strategy" describes the problem of heterogeneous integration of indium phosphide with silicon and the creation of complex semiconductors based on them for photonic integrated circuits. This implies a revolution in integrated circuit technology, which is expected to have a huge impact on the production of military, civil and dual-use microelectronics products. In solving this problem, we are moving almost in parallel with the Microsystems Technology Office of the US Department of Defense's Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA).

    Thus, the 13th President of the European Commission was deeply mistaken when she said that " Russian industry is torn to shreds." Perhaps this was the case when our industry was supervised by American advisers. But today everything is different: thanks to hardworking and talented people, Russia is returning to the high-tech mainstream. As one intelligent person said, you can change everything, but you can't change the people. So we have everything ahead of us. ■

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    Post  Belisarius Fri Dec 02, 2022 4:24 pm

    Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors #2 Img_2223
    Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors #2 Img_2224
    Russian Electronics: Semiconductor and Processors #2 Img_2225
    ⚙ Serial production of photonic chips will begin in Moscow

    This will be done by the resident of the SEZ "Technopolis Moscow" company "Zelenograd Nanotechnology Center" ("ZNTC"). It is one of the first in Russia to launch mass production of photonic integrated circuits and modules for telecommunications equipment. The transfer of information based on such developments is more than 100 times faster. Therefore, they are in demand in all industries where the installation of high-speed equipment is required: for example, for on-board equipment in the aerospace industry or for organizing 5/6G networks in telecommunications.

    The enterprise is going to localize the production of optical multiplexers based on silicon technologies in Russia. The delivery of the first batches will begin in 2023, and serial production will start in 2024.

    ZNTC is also a member of the Moscow Intersectoral Photonics Cluster, which brings together 40 specialized enterprises and scientific and technical organizations of the capital.

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    Post  kvs Fri Dec 02, 2022 5:52 pm

    Clearly, microelectronics are some sort of insecurity-driven complex of westerners. I have been reading the exact same shit about
    Russia's lack of microchips since the 1980s. As if nothing has changed. Any westerner that opens up their trap and invokes the need
    for Russia to rip ICs out of washing machines is spewing pure BS. Whether this reflects retardation or racist hate it does not matter.

    The modern "low end" was the high end of the early 2000s. With 65 nm IC fabrication you can get Intel's Core CPU in the first generation
    Merom instance. What f*cking washing machine needs a CPU of this level? The 8 bit 6502 from 1975 is more than enough for any
    washing machine. Do people load applications into their washing machines when they select a washing mode? Maybe a washing machine
    needs a CPU to solve complex dirt problems? GTFO.

    It is clear that von der Lugen and her ilk are not talking about some secondary IC parts, they are pushing the BS that it is the primary
    components critical for the missile guidance systems. In the real world, even the US does not have Core CPU level ICs in any of its missile

    The F22 used the i960MX for its avionics. No missile uses full blown avionics. The i960 was manufactured with a 1 micron process.
    But the hater prats from NATzO claim Russia is unable to manufacture such parts even though it has 65 nm and 90 nm production lines.

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    Post  Isos Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:26 pm

    Most applications won't see a difference between latest 5nm or the previous generation of electronics because almost 100% of the civilian and military products don't need such powers. Neither companies make bew stuff that require new lectronics. Iphone 14 is exactly the same shit as iphone 13. Samsung Galaxy A13 is the same shit as A43 which is worse than previous A42... having 7, 5, 2nm tech is worthless since they can't be exploited at their full potential, and even if they can you have other parts if the electronics that can't follow so you are always limited.

    The only application that really require latest chips is radars IMO to improve them or other research computers.

    But for your daily work task that mostly include mails, words and facebook you can use a 10 years old tech. You won't see the difference.

    I rather have a very good 2014 electronics production in my country than depending on other for a 2020 tech.

    West is shitting its pants about that because Taiwan is going into China in the next 4 years and they depend totally on them for chip production. They are trying to relocate production in the west but very expensive and sells are going down since all their products cost 1000+$. No one is buying their shit and everyone knows it's the same products as the previous year.

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    Post  sepheronx Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:31 pm

    Even then Radars use DSP cores which Russia has a pretty solid line up for that under Elvees and MCST. MCST Elbrus 2C+ was 2 regular cores and 4 DSP cores hence why it is used in the Su-57 and countless radar systems as the DSP Cores do the heavy task of the real time calculations from the radar and the 2 core processor is more than enough to control and process the information to the pilot and the avionics equipment.

    Drones use mostly ASICS that aren't top of the line.

    This photonic processor though may actually be beneficial beyond just networking equipment. Maybe they can expand it beyond that and work with MCST and others within Russia for using Photonic processors in the field of general use CPU's.

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    Post  GarryB Sat Dec 03, 2022 5:53 am

    Anti sub work is computer processor intensive and not radar but groups of radars together would produce a volume of data that a high power chip processor would be useful for... like NEBO taking UHF and VHF frequency data and processing it together, or in the case of searching for subs ELF and ULF signals processing...

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    Post  kvs Sat Dec 03, 2022 12:54 pm

    Such processing is best done with custom hardware and not general purpose CPUs. Sort of like GPUs are geared towards the tasks
    common to graphics rendering. There is endless talk of using GPUs as replacements for CPUs in HPC systems but trying to port
    geophysical fluid dynamics and associated physical parameterization code onto GPUs is a nightmare.

    As noted before, custom implementation of algorithms in silicon results in much higher performance than running code compiled
    on even the fastest general purpose CPU. This is why Russian 90 nm production is not obsolete. The one country with a history
    of getting more out of less is Russia. In the west, the solution has been to throw more hardware at software problems. You can
    clearly see this with Winblows versions. The hardware bloat is exponential all because of crap software. As far as drivers are
    concerned, they are produced by chimp farms with random keyboard activity. It looks like the "programmers" do not fully understand
    the concept of an algorithm. Especially not how to construct an optimal one.

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