Russian special military operation in Ukraine #32

9 months in the war and some people here still take fake reports, garbage claims and propaganda lies from twitter (and elsewhere) and repost it here.

Grow up guys. A lot (perhaps the majority) of the news on twitter is sh*t.
Wait until confirmation before you repost the garbage here.

billybatts91 wrote:Although arguments like this are petty, they do have an effect. How can the Russian leadership make the proper decisions to fight and win this battle against Ukraine and the West but yet not even be willing to do the little things like at least boycott their products? Is that too much to ask for? Since they are unfriendly enemies of Russia now, according to them. If I were a Russian soldier on the ground in Ukraine, risking my life, I would be a tad pissed off. And a lot of the leaders in Russia have sent their kids to Western Universities and to even live and work, such as Lavrov has. This is why I find it hard to believe that they can properly fight this war and win it. Imagine if Stalin acted this way lol. Different times, but still something to ponder...

How many of the same Russian soldiers have iPhones? Or their wives have them? Quite a lot.
Or you think they all live in the poorhouse and eat gruel everyday?
Even if iPhones cost one an arm and a leg people still get them.

As for Lavrov, It's his money. Let him spend it

Although the Russian FM using an iPhone in any capacity is rightly alarming.

AMCXXL wrote:American troops invading sovereign Russian territory, the time is drawing near for a pre-emptive strike on Washington

https://twitter.com/Ukraine66251776/status/1592334028509970433?s=20&t=Bqsju3luAs_5eYcNbD27nw

https://twitter.com/KelleyBVlahos/status/1592198868510412801?s=20&t=L-7wqEpHHNAyJTyYtnAXDw

https://twitter.com/Ukraine66251776/status/1592309675491753984?s=20&t=DgUiQx-P4ZhlEycP9uNB5g

lol, Russia can't do a large strike like that on Kiev or Lviv yet they're gonna do it to Washington? Huh?

flamming_python wrote:

billybatts91 wrote:Although arguments like this are petty, they do have an effect. How can the Russian leadership make the proper decisions to fight and win this battle against Ukraine and the West but yet not even be willing to do the little things like at least boycott their products? Is that too much to ask for? Since they are unfriendly enemies of Russia now, according to them. If I were a Russian soldier on the ground in Ukraine, risking my life, I would be a tad pissed off. And a lot of the leaders in Russia have sent their kids to Western Universities and to even live and work, such as Lavrov has. This is why I find it hard to believe that they can properly fight this war and win it. Imagine if Stalin acted this way lol. Different times, but still something to ponder...

How many of the same Russian soldiers have iPhones? Or their wives have them? Quite a lot.
Or you think they all live in the poorhouse and eat gruel everyday?
Even if iPhones cost one an arm and a leg people still get them.

As for Lavrov, It's his money. Let him spend it

Although the Russian FM using an iPhone in any capacity is rightly alarming.

I understand regular Russians using this tech but for a political leader like this to flaunt it publicly is not right at this time imo...

GarryB wrote:
I gave a clear warning... in large letters and coloured red so it was hard to miss so Calripson wins the prize for posting two conversations when explicitly told not to and it being a rule since before I joined over a decade ago.

2 weeks.

And while I typed that out Billy goes and reposts half a page with images and videos to type out two single line responses... Billy... you get two weeks too.[/color][/size]

It's the mass of quoted/re-posted inline pictures that are really annoying to me.
They take up so much space.

Hole wrote:
He said watch is from Huawei.

Right, I was hearing with one ear only
But the point is it is not an Apple.

About the US personnel on the ground there, you doomers are not catching up, that is sure.
They were there since 2002 at least.
Yes. 20 years.
It might catch you unprepared, but Ukraine carried out a mission in Iraq since 2003, and they contributed more than 1700 soldiers there.
A lot.
US instructors and advisors were there all the time. They had at least two military compounds in the Ukraine, and a CIA cell was clearly there.
Shocking&ubelievable!

The sole difference is, that this time they are there openly and loudly, and I consider that a message for internal use more than anything.
More and more questions arising about the deliveries of the weapons, the costs of it, and the whole shit looking to be a schematic money loundering operation the US shadow state carries all the time, no matter where. Those questions are being asked in the US, so the crowd of rednecks must get something to chew.

I'm still wondering what Russia is hoping to gain from the pretenses of any negotiation process with the West. As we can safely establish that a Minsk-3 or some sort of end to the war on terms acceptable to Russia is not under consideration.

Any peacemaker goodwill it's hoping to generate in the rest of the world will be cancelled out by the bad optics its retreat from Kherson has caused.

Well we'll hear soon what's up. Maybe as I said earlier, diplomatic expediency that compels it to hear out offers and conduct negotiations even if its clear the offers are utter shit.
In which case the West has found Russia predictable and is taking advantage to make it look weak.

Russia needs to take better care of its image, both to its domestic audience and to the outside. To some extent its Hollwood, but past a certain point it has a real effect on both morale and international relations.
If that requires overriding military considerations with political ones sometimes then so be it. I'm still on the fence about the Kherson withdrawal but I'm perfectly aware that there are factors I'm simply not aware of.

flamming_python wrote:I'm still wondering what Russia is hoping to gain from the pretenses of any negotiation process with the West. As we can safely establish that a Minsk-3 or some sort of end to the war on terms acceptable to Russia is not under consideration.
Any peacemaker goodwill it's hoping to generate in the rest of the world will be cancelled out by the bad optics its retreat from Kherson has caused.
Russia needs to take better care of its image, both to its domestic audience and to the outside. It has a real effect on both morale and international relations.
If that requires overriding military considerations with political ones sometimes then so be it. I'm still on the fence about the Kherson withdrawal but I'm perfectly aware that there are factors I'm simply not aware of.

Perfectly nothing. It is a gesture for international politics only. But that is my guess only.
And seems it works. I am quite surprised by the latest claims of the Indian officials. They are more and more openly saying the collective west where they can suck a dick. A message that they target doubling the bilateral trade very soon can't be more clear.

ALAMO wrote:

flamming_python wrote:I'm still wondering what Russia is hoping to gain from the pretenses of any negotiation process with the West. As we can safely establish that a Minsk-3 or some sort of end to the war on terms acceptable to Russia is not under consideration.
Any peacemaker goodwill it's hoping to generate in the rest of the world will be cancelled out by the bad optics its retreat from Kherson has caused.
Russia needs to take better care of its image, both to its domestic audience and to the outside. It has a real effect on both morale and international relations.
If that requires overriding military considerations with political ones sometimes then so be it. I'm still on the fence about the Kherson withdrawal but I'm perfectly aware that there are factors I'm simply not aware of.

Perfectly nothing. It is a gesture for international politics only. But that is my guess only.
And seems it works. I am quite surprised by the latest claims of the Indian officials. They are more and more openly saying the collective west where they can suck a dick. A message that they target doubling the bilateral trade very soon can't be more clear.

But that's the thing

If the West knows that they can get Russia to negotiate every time they say they want to - then for them Russia has become predictable. Being predictable in war is a very bad thing, it will be taken advantage of.
I don't know if the Kherson retreat was related to the talks, but the West is sparing no effort to make it appear that it is, and that some sort of 'deal' is on the table - and in so doing is trying to damage the country's resolve internally

So if these talks end up as a nothing-burger, I really do hope that Russia will publish the contents of the negotiations and offers in full, explain to their own people and others why they aren't acceptable, and why the West is simply trying to at most buy some 'ceasefire time' until Spring for the Ukraine to re-arm it, if not outright attempting to sow doubt in Russia's population through an insencere desire to discuss peace on the background of a proposed capitulation.
And then reject any further such bullshit attempts moving forward; declaring that it's only prepared to talk peace with the Ukraine directly, and only if they're prepared to discuss the terms of the previous deal offered back in March + some new conditions.

flamming_python wrote:I'm still wondering what Russia is hoping to gain from the pretenses of any negotiation process with the West. As we can safely establish that a Minsk-3 or some sort of end to the war on terms acceptable to Russia is not under consideration.

Any peacemaker goodwill it's hoping to generate in the rest of the world will be cancelled out by the bad optics its retreat from Kherson has caused.

Russia needs to take better care of its image, both to its domestic audience and to the outside. It has a real effect on both morale and international relations.
If that requires overriding military considerations with political ones sometimes then so be it. I'm still on the fence about the Kherson withdrawal but I'm perfectly aware that there are factors I'm simply not aware of.

Comrade, Russia has sociologists who probably together with the Russian authorities know the "blood picture" of Ukroshitstan.
Russia would very likely be satisfied with these 4 areas where it already is, but completely liberated. You and I can write as much as we want about Kharkov, Nikolaev, Odessa, but it's not the same people anymore - the same as the Russians. The damage was done in the past and those are not your brothers anymore. And while most of you write that you are atheists, I respect that but I am not one of those people, I am writing to you that a large part of Ukraine is not only strongly committed to nationalism, but also to Nazism and hatred of Russia. And that Nazism has not been going on since 2014, but it goes back decades and takes us back to WW2.

The Bolsheviks did kill the national identity of a good part of the Russian population in Ukroshitstan, while by 1991 apparently a good part of the population had completely lost their national identity and the explosion of "Ukrainianism/Ukroshitstanism" followed with the collapse of the USSR. They also got their own church, which was recognized by the Ecumenical Patriarchate. And now they preach that they are the autochthonous people in the territory of Ukroshitstan, while the Russians are Mongols and savages.
If children send off a column of AFU vehicles in Kharkov with a Nazi salute, then you understand how much damage has been done. I guarantee you that at least 50% of the population in Kharkov, Odessa or Nikolaev should NEVER join the RF - it would cause enormous damage.
At least 50% of Ukroshitstans will never be your brothers again, FP - forget it.

HE laid the foundations of evil, the US has been using it since the collapse of the USSR - thank him.

Podlodka77 wrote:Comrade, Russia has sociologists who probably together with the Russian authorities know the "blood picture" of Ukroshitstan.
Russia would very likely be satisfied with these 4 areas where it already is, but completely liberated. You and I can write as much as we want about Kharkov, Nikolaev, Odessa, but it's not the same people anymore - the same as the Russians. The damage was done in the past and those are not your brothers anymore. And while most of you write that you are atheists, I respect that but I am not one of those people, I am writing to you that a large part of Ukraine is not only strongly committed to nationalism, but also to Nazism and hatred of Russia. And that Nazism has not been going on since 2014, but it goes back decades and takes us back to WW2.

The Bolsheviks did kill the national identity of a good part of the Russian population in Ukroshitstan, while by 1991 apparently a good part of the population had completely lost their national identity and the explosion of "Ukrainianism/Ukroshitstanism" followed with the collapse of the USSR. They also got their own church, which was recognized by the Ecumenical Patriarchate. And now they preach that they are the autochthonous people in the territory of Ukroshitstan, while the Russians are Mongols and savages.
If children send off a column of AFU vehicles in Kharkov with a Nazi salute, then you understand how much damage has been done. I guarantee you that at least 50% of the population in Kharkov, Odessa or Nikolaev should NEVER join the RF - it would cause enormous damage.
At least 50% of Ukroshitstans will never be your brothers again, FP - forget it.

HE laid the foundations of evil, the US has been using it since the collapse of the USSR - thank him.

I appreciate the effort that has gone into your sermon. About it's historical veracity I will not comment.

But I either way do wonder, just what relation all this has to what I wrote in the post that you quoted?

AMCXXL wrote:
YES, the Yavoriv facility was one of them until it was wiped off the map at the beginning of the war, many Yankee "instructors" were canceled there, including some high-ranking

And that is only if we talk about the Muricans.
Brits had a facility in Odessa either.
There was a thing called PolUkrBat. Established in 1998 already, but an active phase of forming it was started in 1995.
Of course, under the US-led supervision and advisers.
They carried a common mission as a part of KFOR structures until unformed in 2010.
So we had an US direct military involvement lasting almost 30 years and carried out when Kuchma was the president of Ukraine, no matter who run this oligarchy zoo at the prime minister post. For example Yanuk for a long while.
As the Ukrainian contingent to Iraq was quite impressive, there are thousands of soldiers directly trained with the NATO/US standards who formed a core of professional army corp later. KFOR was much smaller, yet with +/-150 soldiers for each rotation and a long duration of this cooperation, there are more and more soldiers there.

During this week’s Sea Breeze ’97 maneuvers, U.S. Marines were to deploy onto the plains surrounding this Ukrainian naval port to intervene in a mythical ethnic conflict in which rebels aided by a neighboring power sought to overthrow the government of “the orange country.”

Rings a bell?

flamming_python wrote:
But that's the thing

Only if you consider a hidden agenda behind the official stand existing.
They were there to talk about the nukes.
I buy that, because we clearly see the US military command seriously threatened by the curse of events.
That things always remind me the beginning of a Vietnam war. It was figured out by the media back there. They have pushed the administration to the corner with the race of big, bold first pages. But this time they are trying to do the same having a nuclear superpower with no equals on the planet, that owns some triple the number of tactical nukes. Not to mention the carriers for them. Being an US chief of staff, I would have been seriously worried and opted for stepping back. Very seriously.

Podlodka77 wrote:[
Comrade, Russia has sociologists who probably together with the Russian authorities know the "blood picture" of Ukroshitstan.
Russia would very likely be satisfied with these 4 areas where it already is, but completely liberated. You and I can write as much as we want about Kharkov, Nikolaev, Odessa, but it's not the same people anymore - the same as the Russians. The damage was done in the past and those are not your brothers anymore. And while most of you write that you are atheists, I respect that but I am not one of those people, I am writing to you that a large part of Ukraine is not only strongly committed to nationalism, but also to Nazism and hatred of Russia. And that Nazism has not been going on since 2014, but it goes back decades and takes us back to WW2.

Yup, that is the point.
Russian govt never made any territorial claims or limits.
They are ... just doing their things.
It is we who paint pictures we find suitable. For whom? What data do we have for them? We hardly get the picture of this war, while watching closely.
To close perhaps, and that destroys our optics in a wider range.
Odessa, Charkov, Sumy or Kiev are not Russian cities anymore.
Maybe some part of them used to be. A decade ago.
Followed by the ethnic cleansing post 2014.
I suppose that hardly any of you have a clue here, while not being Russian or Pole. We took millions of refugees back there. Both of us.
Of course, that was flavored with the propaganda that denied the mass scale of this, but it could only make someone laugh.
Ukrainian ethnic cleansing was carried out at the peak of a general migrant crisis in Europe, and Poland had an obvious split in agenda here.
On the one hand, our propaganda was busy denying the scale of Ukrainian refugees flow, while on the other hand, our govt was busy explaining how many refugees we have already absorbed - giving the Ukrainais the numbers!
Long story short, it ended up with an enormous number of about 3 mln Ukrainian souls ending up here, and that was before the Feb22. Even bigger number ended up in Russia. We talk a working age population mostly, so the end picture is a fact, that remains of pro_russian population in the 404 are elderly people. Most, really really most of the others are long time gone.
And how do you thing, is Russian govt aware of that, if I am?

flamming_python wrote:

Podlodka77 wrote:Comrade, Russia has sociologists who probably together with the Russian authorities know the "blood picture" of Ukroshitstan.
Russia would very likely be satisfied with these 4 areas where it already is, but completely liberated. You and I can write as much as we want about Kharkov, Nikolaev, Odessa, but it's not the same people anymore - the same as the Russians. The damage was done in the past and those are not your brothers anymore. And while most of you write that you are atheists, I respect that but I am not one of those people, I am writing to you that a large part of Ukraine is not only strongly committed to nationalism, but also to Nazism and hatred of Russia. And that Nazism has not been going on since 2014, but it goes back decades and takes us back to WW2.

The Bolsheviks did kill the national identity of a good part of the Russian population in Ukroshitstan, while by 1991 apparently a good part of the population had completely lost their national identity and the explosion of "Ukrainianism/Ukroshitstanism" followed with the collapse of the USSR. They also got their own church, which was recognized by the Ecumenical Patriarchate. And now they preach that they are the autochthonous people in the territory of Ukroshitstan, while the Russians are Mongols and savages.
If children send off a column of AFU vehicles in Kharkov with a Nazi salute, then you understand how much damage has been done. I guarantee you that at least 50% of the population in Kharkov, Odessa or Nikolaev should NEVER join the RF - it would cause enormous damage.
At least 50% of Ukroshitstans will never be your brothers again, FP - forget it.

HE laid the foundations of evil, the US has been using it since the collapse of the USSR - thank him.

I appreciate the effort that has gone into your sermon. About it's historical veracity I will not comment.

But I either way do wonder, just what relation all this has to what I wrote in the post that you quoted?

FP, you often wrote in your messages that Russians and Ukrainians are "the same people" and I agree with you, but it is obvious that they renounced their ancestors (a good part of the population), so now a good part of that population is openly against Russia.
And yes, my opinion is that Communism has done more harm to Russia and the Russian people than all the wars Russia has ever been in. The Russians were the only ones who loved the USSR while it existed, just as the Serbs were the only ones who loved the SFRY - they both lived for utopia.

Podlodka77 wrote:
FP, you often wrote in your messages that Russians and Ukrainians are "the same people" and I agree with you, but it is obvious that they renounced their ancestors (a good part of the population), so now a good part of that population is openly against Russia.
And yes, my opinion is that Communism has done more harm to Russia and the Russian people than all the wars Russia has ever been in. The Russians were the only ones who loved the USSR while it existed, just as the Serbs were the only ones who loved the SFRY - they both lived for utopia.

I deny this logic bro.
The results of Soviet wide referendum were crystal clear.
Nation of the Soviet Union denied the concept of it's dissolution.
With all the nations of the Nation.
It was granted to them, unasked and unwilled.
Some people didn't believe in that for a long time, including the Kazachs.
Most of the smaller nations thrown under the bus of ethnic rage in Abchazia or Transnistria, Nakhchivan or Osetia, or the @stans enclaves that exist to this very day, would give everything to bring the Soviet authority coverage over them.
It was a money loundering operation, in opposite to the people's will and interest.

ALAMO wrote:

Podlodka77 wrote:
FP, you often wrote in your messages that Russians and Ukrainians are "the same people" and I agree with you, but it is obvious that they renounced their ancestors (a good part of the population), so now a good part of that population is openly against Russia.
And yes, my opinion is that Communism has done more harm to Russia and the Russian people than all the wars Russia has ever been in. The Russians were the only ones who loved the USSR while it existed, just as the Serbs were the only ones who loved the SFRY - they both lived for utopia.

I deny this logic bro.
The results of Soviet wide referendum were crystal clear.
Nation of the Soviet Union denied the concept of it's dissolution.
With all the nations of the Nation.
It was granted to them, unasked and unwilled.
Some people didn't believe in that for a long time, including the Kazachs.
Most of the smaller nations thrown under the bus of ethnic rage in Abchazia or Transnistria, Nakhchivan or Osetia, or the @stans enclaves that exist to this very day, would give everything to bring the Soviet authority coverage over them.
It was a money loundering operation, in opposite to the people's will and interest.

Good morning....
I'm sorry, but I think the worst about the USSR, at least when it comes to the Russian people and the damage done to that people.
I myself do not respect a man who spits on his origin because it is the same as if I would spit on my great-grandmother and great-grandfather - that's what many people in Ukroshitstan did. You can't spit on what makes you who you are, a good number of "them" (Ukrops) have done that.
In 1897, Nikolaev had 66% Russians and 8.5 Ukrops, while in 2017 that figure was 84% ​​Ukroshitstans and 12% Russians. Less drastic drops are in Odessa and Kharkov, although both cities are Russian and many Russians have become... you know what.
The whole point of my writing on this subject is that the damage was done much earlier, that's all.

Even in 2014, when Russia had neglected the Western introduced poison for decades, HALF of the country was pro Russian. Remember the last LEGITIMATE govt chose to join the Eurasian Union.

Infact there was also the Communist element which was even more "pro Russian" ie pro Union than the pro Russian Party of the Regions. Odessa, Kharkov etc were just as pro russian as much of Donetsk etc.

This is basic fact, confirmable even from scummy Western sources.
Remove the minority of filth and in any event, these places would happily join the Ru Fedn.

For anyone to claim otherwise is plain bizarre.

When the ground freezes Russia needs to step on the gas, and on some Banderite skulls.

Podlodka77 wrote:
Good morning....  
I'm sorry, but I think the worst about the USSR, at least when it comes to the Russian people and the damage done to that people.
I myself do not respect a man who spits on his origin because it is the same as if I would spit on my great-grandmother and great-grandfather - that's what many people in Ukroshitstan did. You can't spit on what makes you who you are, a good number of "them" (Ukrops) have done that.
In 1897, Nikolaev had 66% Russians and 8.5 Ukrops, while in 2017 that figure was 84% ​​Ukroshitstans and 12% Russians. Less drastic drops are in Odessa and Kharkov, although both cities are Russian and many Russians have become... you know what.
The whole point of my writing on this subject is that the damage was done much earlier, that's all.

The word "Ukrainian" is misused. Its like saying "Muscovite isn't Russian".
Yes these people were from "the Ukraine". But what is that? In the view of half or more of the former country, the Ukraine was a brotherly nation. A bizarre anomaly of history that should be part of a Eurasian Union, like the EU or the "United Kingdom". They were and are firmly part of the "Russian World".

Look how these people voted (even under the 30 yrs of poison). Look at their language.
They didnt want a separate psycho "nation" in the Western Ukraine so they tolerated a Ukrainian "nation". Now its clear that wont work so they will be part of Russia or Novorossiya with Galicia etc dearmed and separate.

Additionally WW2 negates much of the "democratic demographics". In the 1930s there were as many Russians as Ukrainians in Lvov. What happened? Genocide of Russians by the Banderites. Should that give Bandera-filth electoral control over Lvov? Absolutely not, **** them!

And the Western  Russia border has constantly changed in the face of previous Western invasions. A strong Russia pushes that border back and liberates. Just as it is expected to today.
The "Ukraine" is finished. Thats just the norm for these situations. Too much poison and evil has occurred.

Firebird wrote:Even in 2014, when Russia had neglected the Western introduced poison for decades, HALF of the country was pro Russian. Remember the last LEGITIMATE govt chose to join the Eurasian Union.

They were less antirussian, but they were not really pro-russian, except maybe one sixth to one fourth of the population in places like Kharkov and Odessa. In those places most people were not antirussian, but they were ok with the status quo. That was the reason Russia did not attempt to get them at that time. Except for Crimea, only in Donbass more than 50% of the population was pro Russia.
The rest of the "neutral" citizen were just happy to cash russian money and dream for the "greener grass" in the EU.

Also Yanukovich was a fake friend. He only loved money. Simply the offer from EU would have soon transformed Ukraine in a shithole and slave colony, while the offer from Russia was much better.

Anyway Ukraine needed to go through this process of self-destructruction before having hope to be reborn as Malorussia and Novorossia. If not, even if Russia would have swallowed the whole country in 2014, they would have remained as insurgents and terrorists independently on how much cash Russia would have thrown there.

Podlodka77 wrote: I guarantee you that at least 50% of the population in Kharkov, Odessa or Nikolaev should NEVER join the RF - it would cause enormous damage.
At least 50% of Ukroshitstans will never be your brothers again, FP - forget it.

No problem. Once Russia takes over Kharkov, these people are asked to LEAVE.

If they don't, then they shall be... encouraged... to rethink their decision.

Better still, give them the Operation Storm treatment, as per Krajina. If its OK for Croatia to openly ethnically cleanse unwanted population, I don't see why Russia shouldn't. War is Hell.
Bad shit happens. Oh well., c'est la vie.