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    Russian population and demographics #2

    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sun Nov 19, 2023 4:10 pm

    A reply to Rodion_Romanovic in another thread where it is OT.

    Russia should only adopt incentives for families with stipulations for 3 children (2 is marginal) or more. There should be no programs where money
    is handed over without children resulting from it. It has been demonstrated that incentive programs do not generate more births and are
    a waste of time. Raising up the financial level of females is causally inversely correlated with the birth rate. The stupid phrase "barefoot
    and pregnant" is an attempt to smear any recognition of the nature of females. In modern society they only get baby rabies when their
    eggs have dried up by their mid-thirties and later. They spend the most fertile period of their lives (late teens and twenties) screwing around
    and trying to get "high value" males who pump and dump them. They have no commitment to family until they start hitting the wall when
    it is too late. Demographics crashes on the rocks of this idiocy.

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    GarryB
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    Post  GarryB Sun Nov 19, 2023 11:53 pm

    But at least the west has not made you cynical.

    It is a bit ironic that in the 1950s most families were single income families because bringing up children was a full time job.

    Skip to today and the only single income families are solo parents...
    Rodion_Romanovic
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Mon Nov 20, 2023 1:27 am

    GarryB wrote:But at least the west has not made you cynical.

    It is a bit ironic that in the 1950s most families were single income families because bringing up children was a full time job.

    Skip to today and the only single income families are solo parents...

    Yeah, but you need the double income because otherwise you cannot pay your bills.
    Furthermore you still have less than what single income families had in the past but you have less time for your kids.

    It is just like a comment I saw yesterday.

    In Italy in the 1980s the average monthly salary was around 1600000 Lire (the average exchange rate in 1980 was 1 US dollar was equal to about 856 lire), so something like 1870 US dollars of the same year.

    In those years you could buy an ice cream for about 1000 lire, so with the average monthly salary you could buy 1600 ice creams.

    Now in Italy the average monthly salary is 1600 euro (when euro was introduced the official change was 1 euro= 1936.27 lire). You can buy a (small) ice cream for 2.5 euro. That means that with an average monthly salary you can buy 640 (small) ice creams.

    Basically the average Italian lost 60% of his purchasing power. Of course it is not possible anymore to live in a single income family.

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    MMBR
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    Post  MMBR Wed Nov 22, 2023 3:07 pm

    Inflation
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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Wed Nov 22, 2023 8:46 pm

    MMBR wrote:Inflation

    Yes but in theory the salaries should also be adjusted for inflation, otherwise you only make people poorer.

    Basically a working class family where both husband and wife have a full time job has lower purchasing power than a single income family from 40 years ago.

    And they do not have time to spend with their kids.

    By the way. I have a colleague with a good job here in Germany who is leaving the company and the country to go back to Russia.

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    Post  GarryB Thu Nov 23, 2023 2:33 am

    By the way. I have a colleague with a good job here in Germany who is leaving the company and the country to go back to Russia.

    And that is the amusing thing... I think it was RTN that said Russia was losing its best and its brightest, but there are jobs in Russia and the infrastructure is being built new and there is low unemployment and conservative social views.

    The west became powerful and rich partly because it could sample the bestest and the brightest from the entire world... teach them English or the local language and bring them to a country with money and infrastructure many other countries have never had.

    In the 70s and 80s all the documentaries on western TV were about the rest of the world... some of them still are but fewer people are interested in watching them...

    Most westerners get a shock going to Russia or China or many other countries.... even apparently poor countries because even relatively poor countries have cities that don't look like the slums you see on TV depicting the third world... not that the west has ever done anything to help in that regard.

    The point is that the west does not have the education system to create smart people, they are more interested in making sure they don't get your gender pronouns wrong or they might get fired.

    Russia and China can contribute to that because the west had the advanced education for people from around the world so you went to tertiary education in the west and you met the children of the rich and powerful, who because of the nature of the west will also mostly be rich and powerful when they grow up unless they make some seriously bad life choices, but even then if your dad is president you can do as you please.

    The point is that the best and the brightest eventually go home and spread the western way of doing things and promote western values and ethics etc etc.

    Russia and China and indeed India could turn their education systems into service industries to train and educate the world, because that gives a lot of soft power to you.

    And those people thinking skin colour makes you dumb, culture and the environment you grow up in has more to do with achievement than genetics.

    Two smart people having a baby there is no certainty that the child will be smart no matter how clever their parents are at manipulating and teaching them are.

    Equally two people who never went to high school let alone finished might give birth to a genius... but because the child as born in a tiny village in a poor country they might spend their time solving problems in the village like improving the water or other access, instead of curing cancer or ending poverty.

    I was going to say end child poverty because the cynical west are bastards aren't they?

    If you have a charity working to end poverty in your own country most people wont donate because they think poor people in their own country... the adults... are lazy or stupid or both. They will only donate if you say it is for children but obviously children can't control their financial situation, so giving them a nice house and a good job really isn't practical.

    The real problem with the west is that our governments listen to the rich and powerful and when there is a problem with the economy they throw billions of dollars in subsidies to the rich and powerful, like the banks and the big businesses in the hope they will pass the money on to the customers and workers respectively... but they never do... they pocket it and give themselves big bonuses.

    What the government should do is give $10,000 to everyone on the unemployment benefit... they wont save it.... they will spend it... they will pay bills and get their cars fixed or their fridges or ovens fixed.... some might even go on holiday, but the vast majority will spend money which would boost the economy vastly more than any payout to banks et al.

    I saw a video that explained perfectly why the west and most other countries are broken... the guy states where ever you go in the world, get into a taxi and ask the driver to take you to where the working people live and they will almost always take you to a slum... ask yourself why it is the workers who live in some of the poorest areas of a country... they can't live too far from work but they can't afford mansions or to live in nice places.... urban slums.... for the people who do the work.

    There is something to be said for a company town where a company will build cheap but safe modern housing for its workers and put its workers through education and look after their health needs... western companies don't do that and that is why they were so efficient... because they are heartless bastards.

    That is what changed from the 1950s America to now... the companies made profits but they invested the profits in decent wages for their workers and not just management and shareholders.

    Shareholders get too much money considering they don't contribute anything to the company other than an initial cash injection. Something they end up getting a continuous return on year after year after year... but they don't keep contributing more and more money, just one purchase of shares and they they keep extracting wealth from the company they otherwise do nothing to help. Like a bank loan... except bank loans get paid off so once it is paid off you don't have to keep paying them a percentage of the profits.

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    ALAMO


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    Post  ALAMO Mon Nov 27, 2023 2:51 pm

    Russia reestablished a medal of Mat Geroinya - Hero Mother.
    It was presented in Soviet times to mothers who gave birth to 10 or more children.

    Russian population and demographics #2 - Page 5 Photo269

    A presidential decree of 2022 granted its return, and some has been already provided. Nov 26th is a ritual date of promotion, as it is a Mothers Day in Russia.
    A medal is assisted by a 1 000 000 rubles financial grant (EUR10+k).

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    Post  Hole Mon Nov 27, 2023 3:49 pm

    Is there some reward for a man who "creates" 10+ children? Very Happy

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    Post  ALAMO Mon Nov 27, 2023 3:52 pm

    Asking in the interest of your friend? Laughing Laughing

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    Post  franco Mon Nov 27, 2023 4:25 pm

    There will soon be plenty of Ukrainian concubines available censored Twisted Evil

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    Post  ALAMO Mon Nov 27, 2023 9:08 pm

    There are tons of them already, however nobody sane mates with them.
    It is a boobtrap, you know Laughing
    The case of Ukro females looking for a male partner to sort their shit out was serious enough to make some of the local catholic church big fishes to make a stand.
    They were seriously afraid that they will be ... ekhm ... active ... with all the privileges they have ... ekhm ... to do ... khm khm ... the things local male population will hmmm hmmm ... applaud.
    Is it offensive enough? Laughing

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    Post  GarryB Tue Nov 28, 2023 2:53 am

    Actually perhaps talking about conscription for women was a ploy to boost the fertility of Ukrainian women... won't help now but in about 18 years you will have plenty of meat for the meat grinder...

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    Post  ALAMO Tue Nov 28, 2023 8:32 am

    As we have seen already, pregnancy is not a cause of not sending females into the battle.
    Most of the materials provided cover the work of medical personnel, and I wouldn't make much noise about that.
    Russian medical teams are women heavy either, and I am quite sure that some of them died in combat operations.
    We had a widely known episode in Syria, when a field hospital was targeted and some female personnel died.
    There was a case of high decoration of some field nurse early in the war.
    So that is not as much a point as the fact, that Ukro propaganda is really actively pushing a narrative of female frontline soldiering. They are trying to address patriotism and flexibility of women in general, but in a wider view it is disgusting. A clear goal is to push females into the meatgrinder, and sadly the female part of Ukro population is structured much more equally rather than male. They haven't fled the country after 240222. Before that, female draining was affecting older population mostly, with young girls staying at home.
    It means that they have a waste reservoir of young, 18+ population to bleed white.  
    Disgusting.

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    Post  GarryB Tue Nov 28, 2023 10:36 am

    And so easy to round up... just follow the house music to the nightclubs and there they are....

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    Hole
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    Post  Hole Tue Nov 28, 2023 12:30 pm

    flexibility of women
    No
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    Post  GarryB Wed Nov 29, 2023 6:48 am

    The problem is that they seem more interested in throwing bodies into the line than to getting the damaged bodies out of the line and back to treatment so women might be told they are going to be nurses or radio operators or other such things but they get a rifle and end up in a trench on the front line anyway.

    The people making big money out of this war wont care... they didn't care about their sons, why care about their daughters, but most people wont be making money out of this for much longer on both sides of the fence.

    If you have a field full of worn out EV cars you are running out of time to get a contract with your government to supply some MRAPs that are next generation... they are electric... sell them at $300K per vehicle... but they do need new batteries is in the small print on page 402 of the contract...
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    Post  PhSt Sun Mar 03, 2024 2:56 pm


    I wonder when Russia will hit the 250+ million population mark, I'm afraid it will not be in my lifetime, but a population of at least 250 - 300+ million will help propel Russia's economy to become the 4th or 5th largest in the world. the Soviet Union was the world's 2nd largest economy in 1985 and its population at that time was somewhere in the 250 to 300 million mark.


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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Sun Mar 03, 2024 4:41 pm

    PhSt wrote:I wonder when Russia will hit the 250+ million population mark, I'm afraid it will not be in my lifetime, but a population of at least 250 - 300+ million will help propel Russia's economy to become the 4th or 5th largest in the world. the Soviet Union was the world's 2nd largest economy in 1985 and its population at that time was somewhere in the 250 to 300 million mark.

    Russia and Bielorussia together are about 154 millions.
    From the inhabitants of Ukraine that will remain after the war it will be maybe something like 20 millions (the rest will go in the west or to Poland.

    This will be still below 180 millions.

    It would take several decades of peace and incentives for families to reach those numbers.

    They could get close to 250 only if they add also some of the central Asian states, like Kazakhstan (19 millions) and Uzbekistan (about 34 millions), but of those people, only considerably less than 5 millions will be made by ethnic Russians.
    Maybe also Turkmenistan (about 7 millions people) could also be considered. Very rich in natural, on the Caspian sea and part of the old silk road.
    Governed by a semi dictatorship, poor treatment of minorites (including uzbeks and russians).

    So the issue, you mean 250 millions with also some of the central Asian states or with only Russia+ Bielorussia + malorossia and novorossia?



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    kvs
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    Post  kvs Sun Mar 03, 2024 5:50 pm

    There is no chance of raising the Russian population by natural growth as long as the current gyno-centric order is in place.
    No society in Europe, Asia and North America that is "developed" has a sustainable birth rate. None. Israel only has a sufficient
    birth rate because of the patriarchal Orthodox community. The rest of the Israeli population reproduces like all the other low
    fertility countries.

    As long as women do not settle down until it is essentially too late (their mid thirties) and have three children or more, there cannot
    be any demographic expansion. But the modern "advanced" culture has resulted in women who have ludicrous expectations and who
    have no interest in family and children in their 20s. Career and 10% of the male population are their priority. They may get the former
    but all of them obviously cannot get the latter outside of one night stands. All that f*cking around does not produce children.

    Giving women more money is not going to change their priorities. A culture change is required. No more pandering to female vanity
    and pushing "progressive" BS like affirmative action jobs. If a woman wants to pursue a career at the expense of family and children,
    then they can remain free to do so. But most of them won't do this if society does not incentivize them this way. They should, naturally,
    realize quickly that chad is not going to be their hubby.

    The other side of the equation is the abuse of male family rights. Men are subjected to indentured servitude because of grotesque divorce
    laws. Alimony only made sense over 100 years ago when women were not afforded absurd welfare and family courts did not exist. Alimony
    today is a total abuse of human rights of the man having to pay it out. The only support a man should have to pay is child support and that
    is with a 50/50 custody arrangement. Right now you have welfare queens collecting child support and alimony while their children seen almost
    zero of it, while the father has a tiny amount of access to his children. Men need fair incentives to marry and have children. Females are
    not the center of the universe.

    Russia is a little bit better in terms of divorce laws, but they are very similar to the western ones. So women "don't need no man" because
    they have the state as their husband.

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    Post  Rodion_Romanovic Sun Mar 03, 2024 8:48 pm

    @kvs, as I have already replied about it (we discussed this in previous posts in this thread), I fully agree.

    I also believe that it makes no sense that men have to dedicate one years of their life to military service while women who are not interested in motherhood do not need to spend their time for the community.

    I would say that putting one year of mandatory civil service, far away from home, ideally in small towns in Siberia (like assisting the elderly, cleaning the streets or helping as a Unlicensed assistive personnel (UAP) in an hospital, etc) for women above 25 unmarried and /or without Kids, could help.

    This of course should be also a good alternative for the rich young men that try to skip military service (but for them the alternative should be longer than normal military service).

    Concerning your other point, helps should be given first to families with kids, help from the state (or alimony from the future ex husband) should not be an incentive for women to divorce and become a "single" mother.

    I remember a (now already relatively old) Italian movie that described a similar situation. Due to financial problems a couple with child is thinking about divorcing because they cannot cope with all the expenses, as current Italian laws would give financial help to a single mother but not to a married family.

    Anyway, in order to allow large families, also higher income for men is needed (or at least financial help to families with kids). Being a mother of 3 or more children is already a full time job, it is not realistic to imagine that a woman can manage a 50 hours/week job on top of that.

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    Post  Hole Sun Mar 03, 2024 10:12 pm

     Russia's economy to become the 4th or 5th largest in the world.
    Already No. 5, only slightly behind No. 4 (Japan).

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    Post  kvs Mon Mar 04, 2024 12:21 am

    Based on PPP which is skewed towards consumer prices and is thus misleading. Russia has a substantially deeper GDP than Japan and Germany.

    Germany and Japan also have a well developed "financial industry" which is funny money recirculation that has little to do with the real economy.
    Russia is behind in this field.

    Regarding female empowerment: women can still get a high level education and go for a girl boss career even if they have several kids. The
    trick is that they need to get married at 16 and start their post-secondary education when they are 26. They still have plenty of time to
    move up in the corporate world and will have more than 3 children which will sustain the population and its growth.

    The reason why this optimal solution is not pursued is because females want to f*ck around in their teens and 20s, chasing chad dick. They
    want to settle down only when chad no longer pays them any attention in their 30s. So society is set for long term decline because of a
    female slut phase.

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