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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #24

    Big_Gazza
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    Post  Big_Gazza Mon Sep 12, 2022 5:13 am

    mr_hd wrote:...Russia does not have man power to rule Ukraine, that story is over couple of years ago...

    One could also have said in 2014 that the "Banderites do not have man power to rule Ukraine" except that they did achieve this by taking power in a violent coup, using the army to suppress dissent and organised reistance, using organised political violence to silence political and media opposition, and enlisting political and economic support for US, EU & NATO.

    Russia will do the same once the Kiev regime is eradicated. Arm the East Ukrainians and support them to the hilt as they settle scores against the Banderites. Enable East Ukrainains to create a new nation out of the ashes, and look askew if it requires the application of... re-education... to make it happen.

    Good for goose. Good for gander.

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    Post  Big_Gazza Mon Sep 12, 2022 5:16 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    Arsenic wrote:It is also time to destroy all the Ukrainian railway networks which are used to transport all the heavy weapons from the west to the east...

    Destroying rail networks is actually not that simple you can missile a track but it can be repaired within hours your best beat is to destroy the train and stations themselves

    Or destroy the electrical substations that power the urban train networks. Also the fuel depots that supply the diesel-driven locomotives.

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    Post  PapaDragon Mon Sep 12, 2022 5:19 am

    Arkanghelsk wrote:🇷🇺🇺🇦⚡The Russian army delivers a massive blow to targets in Kharkov and the region

    Also explosions in Slavyansk and Konstantinovka

    GOOD GOOD

    But where is the army!? Send them in ?

    What's the rush?

    Are all Ukrainians dead or not?

    If yes then send in the army

    If not then sit back and let the pilots earn their bread






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    Post  Big_Gazza Mon Sep 12, 2022 5:25 am

    Erk wrote:I am sure the making the citizens of Ukraine suffer, is not part of Putin's game plan.
    It's more like something the west would do.


    I think that its certain that Putin in particular wanted to avoid this sort of unpleasantness, but the Kiev regimes stubborness and NATOs insistence in fighting to the last drop of Ukrainian (Nationalist or ethnic-Russian) blood won't permit such an optimal outcome.  I think it is simply become a "gospel truth" that Ukraine has been siezed by a cabal of implacable enemies of the Russian state and people, just like Germany was in the 30s until May 45.

    Actually, the more I think about it, I think current day Europe is basically the same.  There is no appeasing the globalists anymore, and the only acceptable outcome is now a total Russian victory and utter defeat of globalist aspirations towards Russia.  Europes people will now be forced to suffer as well due to the hysterical intransigence of Europes corrupt and compromised ruling "elites".

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    Post  Big_Gazza Mon Sep 12, 2022 5:28 am

    PapaDragon wrote:What's the rush?

    Are all Ukrainians dead or not?

    If yes then send in the army

    If not then sit back and let the pilots earn their bread


    Don't forget the missile troops. Mr Khinzal, Mr Iskander, Mr Kalibre, Mr Kh-101 and all of their little air-launched tactical buddies want their turn... Twisted Evil

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    Post  par far Mon Sep 12, 2022 5:35 am

    Erk wrote:
    par far wrote:...

    This is a Russia vs NATO and Russia needs treat it as such.

    Like what? Nuke the Pentagon? I am sure that would work out well for everybody.

    What I mean is that they need get more aggressive, when the NATO trained funded and commanded Ukrainian army was going towards Kharkov, they should have been hard hit and driven back.

    Russia have gotten aggressive, which is good. There are reports of electricity not working in some places, let's see where this goes.

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    Post  Backman Mon Sep 12, 2022 6:06 am

    [quote="Big_Gazza"]

    Clearly Russians knew this was on the way, and had long planned to perform a widescale redeployment away from Kharkov to refocus on Donbass..

    They knew. But why do they have to make is so difficult for themselves and especially their supporters propaganda wise? There has to be a better way than this. The world is watching the maps whether they like it or not. Whether it is a territorial line or not. Propaganda wise they should have one job. Avoid a shitstorm like this.

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    Post  Backman Mon Sep 12, 2022 6:28 am

    As I said, part of the problem with Russian propaganda is the propagandists themselves.

    Apti Alaudinov  two days ago stated:


    What is happening today was planned. This is a tactical ploy that helped us to pull all their forces and means to the territory where it is convenient for us to fight with them.


    Martyanov quote:

    But, but... how could this be, when Russian General Staff didn't call Yuri Podolyaka or Rybar, or Readovka, or South Front and didn't ask for their "expert" opinion? Because as we know, the real war is fought in media sphere and people who wouldn't be able to distinguish shit from shinola operationally rely on their own and IPSO echo-chamber.

    Here is one such demonstration--operational maps. I did a review of this issue a few days and touched upon this seemingly simple thing: that you cannot trust maps by all kinds of fanboys, like Rybar. ALL of it, without exception, including REAL positions of Russian units and formations is highly classified and is not known to ALL "experts", me included, who pretend that they know. They don't. Same as they don't know real operational plans, they do not know the real troops movements and all poor and overwhelmed consumers of such "expertise" get is a feculant stream of "interpretations" of media information by amateurs who present their operational "skills" (99% of them have no idea what operational planning is) by producing the SO CALLED "operational maps" which are nothing more than a complete and misleading BS concocted based on the media "reports" most of which are nothing more than crude propaganda and PR.


    Last edited by Backman on Mon Sep 12, 2022 6:30 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  ucmvulcan Mon Sep 12, 2022 6:29 am

    Big_Gazza wrote:ucmvulcan, I presume that you accidently disliked your own post?  #113

    Laughing

    Yup
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    Post  Podlodka77 Mon Sep 12, 2022 6:41 am

    Well, I totally screwed up when I wrote two days ago that the Russians might encircle Kharkov. Laughing
    This is just another proof that I, as an ordinary person and an observer of these events, have no idea about the Russian plans.
    The Russians should be allowed to do what they are already doing, which is to return Ukroshitstan to the Middle Ages.
    Although, that's what cocsucker 'Elensky did, the leader of the blue yellow Nazi shithole, depriving the Russians of all human rights and introducing rights for themselves that even the emperors in the medieval states did not have.
    I often wonder where are the brains of those Ukroshitstan fighters who speak the Russian language and fight against the Russians. It's called a complex, mixed with hatred against everything Russian and proving something they don't have and never had - their own country.
    Without any self-criticism, I can freely say that "Ukrainians" are rarely stupid people. To allow yourself to become a Western whore and to turn against the country from which you were born, that is, Russia. I suggest that after the defeat by Russia, which is imminent, they take that yellow-blue flag and wipe their ass with it - for another, it is not useful

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    flamming_python
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    Post  flamming_python Mon Sep 12, 2022 7:03 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:
    ALAMO wrote:You know what?
    This is the kind of scenario I was considering in Jan/Feb.
    Russia using its overwhelming technological advantage, and just bomb the shit out of them
    And asking once a day, are they done already?
    Hit the targets one by one, down to the list, waiting until they will get some sanity.
    Well, it didn't end up this way, so I still have an aired question : why?
    And more and more I am convinced, that they knew something that changed the situation drastically.

    The **** up in Kharkov clearly changed the situation

    There was no **** up in Kharkov mac

    I don't know what Russia is up to, but clearly its actions are planned and intentional

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    Post  flamming_python Mon Sep 12, 2022 7:14 am

    Backman wrote:
    Big_Gazza wrote:

    Clearly Russians knew this was on the way, and had long planned to perform a widescale redeployment away from Kharkov to refocus on Donbass..

    They knew. But why do they have to make is so difficult for themselves and especially their supporters propaganda wise? There has to be a better way than this. The world is watching the maps whether they like it or not. Whether it is a territorial line or not. Propaganda wise they should have one job. Avoid a shitstorm like this.

    No military professional much less career officer or analyst worth his salt will be running to conclusions while the operation is still ongoing

    Do you know of one general or historian who made his mind up about the Battle of Stalingrad, the Battle of Moscow, Pilsudski's/Petlyura's offensive against Bolshevik Russia, etc... within the first week of these events?
    Because if they had - then their conclusions would almost certainly have been wrong. The Germans ended up surrounded in Stalingrad, thrown back hundreds of km from Moscow, while Pilsudski's half-baked invasion as deep as it was; was counter-attacked harshly and the Polish army ended up on the Vistula defending their own capital instead.

    All the more so rushing to judgement over the strategies of a country like Russia; with all its history of commanders that have employed attritional warfare, scorched earth, harassment of advancing enemy forces and trading land for advantage starting from at least Kutuzov versus Napoleon.

    So don't worry about the world watching. And if they have some trouble figuring out what's going on, they can always turn to a history book.


    Last edited by flamming_python on Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:10 am; edited 1 time in total

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    Post  crod Mon Sep 12, 2022 7:25 am

    I hope dear Christ that you’re bang on the money FP - I really do.
    I wish that they hadn’t been provided the flag raising selfie opportunity in the first place. I just think they should’ve taken the opportunity when it was presented to them to destroy that build up.
    What makes it worse is that popularity in Europe was on the wane. People at the beginning were gun-ho on all the support without realising what was in store for them financially but of recent times people were like ‘stop this shit already’ it’s costing me a fortune and we don’t really give a shit about the Ukraine. Meanwhile Jew boy was being hosted and begging for more support armed to the teeth with pics and maps to say ‘look what happens when you give us stuff’. The timing was brutal and really couldn’t have been frigging worse.
    I just hope to Christ the ‘this all a hoodwink theory’ is accurate. If not then the RF will rue the missed opportunity to take out that build up as they saw it congregating.
    I also hope that last night is the beginning of the gloves coming off and that the bum spanking time has begun.
    To see Russia storm through and smash them…I’ll happily gorge on humble pie until vomit.

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    Post  flamming_python Mon Sep 12, 2022 7:36 am

    crod wrote:I hope dear Christ that you’re bang on the money FP - I really do.
    I wish that they hadn’t been provided the flag raising selfie opportunity in the first place. I just think they should’ve taken the opportunity when it was presented to them to destroy that build up.
    What makes it worse is that popularity in Europe was on the wane. People at the beginning were gun-ho on all the support without realising what was in store for them financially but of recent times people were like ‘stop this shit already’ it’s costing me a fortune and we don’t really give a shit about the Ukraine. Meanwhile Jew boy was being hosted and begging for more support armed to the teeth with pics and maps to say ‘look what happens when you give us stuff’. The timing was brutal and really couldn’t have been frigging worse.
    I just hope to Christ the ‘this all a hoodwink theory’ is accurate. If not then the RF will rue the missed opportunity to take out that build up as they saw it congregating.
    I also hope that last night is the beginning of the gloves coming off and that the bum spanking time has begun.
    To see Russia storm through and smash them…I’ll happily gorge on humble pie until vomit.

    If they weren't given the opportunity, they wouldn't have been drawn in. Appearances have to be kept up

    Right now the Ukrainian and NATO staff are probably trying to guess what next. Because everyone understands something is coming. But Russia will keep its cards extremely close to its chest until its ready to reveal them. There will be no rumours of some Kherson offensive, Kharkov offensive or whatever. And no time for such anyway, the next move won't be long in coming at all

    As for whether Europe is ready to support the Ukraine or not - who cares? The more material, financial aid and manpower they send to the Ukraine the more it exhausts them in a futile effort. Sending good money after bad so to speak.
    I doubt Russia is much concerned about whatever short-term decisions were reached at Rammstein air base. It simply assumes the West will fight to the end for its own dominance of world politics which is under major threat.


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    Post  OminousSpudd Mon Sep 12, 2022 7:41 am

    Literally bipolar behaviour from many members here. A few cruise missiles and suddenly the party is back on again. Maintain a sober mind, and at least attempt to see the wood for the trees. Absolute panic over a rather orderly retreat in the face of a fight that would have been largely pointless.

    As I said before, now the Russians do the utmost to protect the lives of the troops, at the expense of a PR loss and atrocities conducted against the locals. It's diametrical to the beginning of the conflict, yet everyone still lost their minds. You really don't get to have your cake and eat it too in war, sometimes you're forced to chose between a bad outcome and a worse outcome. We'll see in the coming weeks, but I'd say the gain outweighs the loss. Stop being muppets and getting hysterical over the 24hr news cycle. War isn't a game

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    Post  thegopnik Mon Sep 12, 2022 7:53 am

    OminousSpudd wrote:Literally bipolar behaviour from many members here. A few cruise missiles and suddenly the party is back on again. Maintain a sober mind, and at least attempt to see the wood for the trees. Absolute panic over a rather orderly retreat in the face of a fight that would have been largely pointless.

    As I said before, now the Russians do the utmost to protect the lives of the troops, at the expense of a PR loss and atrocities conducted against the locals. It's diametrical to the beginning of the conflict, yet everyone still lost their minds. You really don't get to have your cake and eat it too in war, sometimes you're forced to chose between a bad outcome and a worse outcome. We'll see in the coming weeks, but I'd say the gain outweighs the loss. Stop being muppets and getting hysterical over the 24hr news cycle. War isn't a game

    nahh they are finally taking this war serious(I actually hope they are serious) **** even killnet their hacker group got fucking pissed as WTF are the russians doing to get pushed all the way back to their borders. There better be good news tommorow on regaining territory not just what they lost but even further west.
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    Post  flamming_python Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:06 am

    thegopnik wrote:
    OminousSpudd wrote:Literally bipolar behaviour from many members here. A few cruise missiles and suddenly the party is back on again. Maintain a sober mind, and at least attempt to see the wood for the trees. Absolute panic over a rather orderly retreat in the face of a fight that would have been largely pointless.

    As I said before, now the Russians do the utmost to protect the lives of the troops, at the expense of a PR loss and atrocities conducted against the locals. It's diametrical to the beginning of the conflict, yet everyone still lost their minds. You really don't get to have your cake and eat it too in war, sometimes you're forced to chose between a bad outcome and a worse outcome. We'll see in the coming weeks, but I'd say the gain outweighs the loss. Stop being muppets and getting hysterical over the 24hr news cycle. War isn't a game

    nahh they are finally taking this war serious(I actually hope they are serious) **** even killnet their hacker group got fucking pissed as WTF are the russians doing to get pushed all the way back to their borders. There better be good news tommorow on regaining territory not just what they lost but even further west.

    Barclay de Tolly was not popular among the troops during the war against Napoleon either. Giving up your own territory and scorching it does that.

    But when his strategies ultimately worked and Napoleon's Grand Armee all but dissolved in Russia he of course became very popular

    Who the fk cares what killnet is pissed off about?
    Or are the Russian General Staff confiding to them too?

    I suggest everyone lets the professionals do their job and give them the benefit of the doubt. Especially when every indication points to them being ahead of events and up to something interesting. If they were incompetent they wouldn't have annihilated the Ukrainian advance above Kherson.
    Because right now all these chicken littles running around are the useful idiots of NATO and are being manipulated into doing the adversary's work for them. They need to grow a brain.

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    Post  thegopnik Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:12 am

    With all the equipment, U.S. intelligence, and foreign mercenaries using NATO equipment I wonder how well armed Ukraine's land forces is if we compare them to Poland, France, Germany, or Turkey?
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    Post  OminousSpudd Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:16 am

    thegopnik wrote:
    nahh they are finally taking this war serious(I actually hope they are serious) **** even killnet their hacker group got fucking pissed as WTF are the russians doing to get pushed all the way back to their borders. There better be good news tommorow on regaining territory not just what they lost but even further west.
    Serious by your standards.

    De-nazification
    De-militarization

    That's all we officially know about the grand strategy of this entire op. How do you best achieve these two stated objectives? Do you eliminate enemy infrastructure and/or carpet bomb the enemy into the stone age ala Iraq? If so, when? What is the long term aim for the territory of Ukraine? What is the long term objective regarding the wider, global "Cold" War? How does the operation in Ukraine factor into the bigger picture?
    I am not implying that Russian leadership can not be blindsided, but to insinuate that Russian strategy is purely reactionary, with no long-term goals, is borderline retarded. Failure to plan is simply planning to fail, and historically speaking, Russia loves its plans.

    On another note, a defeat in Ukraine, or some ridiculous mediocre outcome would almost certainly mean the end of Putin, probably the end of the modern Kremlin elite. This is very much a matter of self-preservation for the status quo. From this perspective, any political limitations imposed on the military will only extend as long as the political goals are achievable, any indication that these limitations will incur a loss will likely result in the gloves coming off. Russia will not lose in Ukraine, the question is what will Russian victory look like.

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    Post  limb Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:20 am

    Krepost wrote:Information is from UKRAINIAN sources.

    Here is the list of Russian Losses in Ukraine:

    Total of 102 tanks, BMPs, BTRs, Artillery pieces, Kamaz trucks, Ural trucks, Orlan UAV etc.

    Many of the above were probably abandoned because they were not driveable and needed repairs.
    Otherwise, losses are relatively minimal.
    It is also said that Russian casualties are minimal too because of most of them retreated safely.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #24 - Page 6 Fcaan410
    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #24 - Page 6 Fcaaoe10


    Is this only from the retreat?
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    Post  owais.usmani Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:24 am



    Looks like one Kalibr malfunctioned. dunno

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    Post  ALAMO Mon Sep 12, 2022 8:58 am

    flamming_python wrote:

    There was no **** up in Kharkov mac

    I don't know what Russia is up to, but clearly its actions are planned and intentional

    I have made an observation, feel free to correct me as possible I was not focused enough to follow that.
    As there are tons of infrastructural&social projects going on in the south, ie. Cherson, Mariopol, Melitopol etc - there was nothing like that in the north, that is Charkov, Izum etc.
    When the road signs are replaced with the Russian ones in Chersonskaya oblast, nothing like that happened in the Izum.
    When the city limits sculptures were painted tricolor all the south, the same in Izum, Kupyansk etc are just as they were.
    When there are big billboards about "we are one nation" all over the south - nothing like that in the north.
    Giant infrastructural projects are running in the whole southern regions, new hospitals, and whole city quarters are being built brand new - nothing like that in the north.
    So I draw a conclusion, that possible those areas was not going to be incorporated into Russia anyway.
    A difference in approach is obvious.
    Why, if not different faith of the territories?

    Backman wrote:As I said, part of the problem with Russian propaganda is the propagandists themselves.
    Apti Alaudinov  two days ago stated:
    What is happening today was planned. This is a tactical ploy that helped us to pull all their forces and means to the territory where it is convenient for us to fight with them.
    Martyanov quote:
    But, but... how could this be, when Russian General Staff didn't call Yuri Podolyaka or Rybar, or Readovka, or South Front and didn't ask for their "expert" opinion? Because as we know, the real war is fought in media sphere and people who wouldn't be able to distinguish shit from shinola operationally rely on their own and IPSO echo-chamber.
    Here is one such demonstration--operational maps. I did a review of this issue a few days and touched upon this seemingly simple thing: that you cannot trust maps by all kinds of fanboys, like Rybar.  ALL of it, without exception, including REAL positions of Russian units and formations is highly classified and is not known to ALL "experts", me included, who pretend that they know. They don't. Same as they don't know real operational plans, they do not know the real troops movements and all poor and overwhelmed consumers of such "expertise" get is a feculant stream of "interpretations" of media information by amateurs who present their operational "skills" (99% of them have no idea what operational planning is) by producing the SO CALLED "operational maps" which are nothing more than a complete and misleading BS concocted based on the media "reports" most of which are nothing more than crude propaganda and PR.

    And let's keep in mind, that even people who pretend to have some accurate reports from the civilian population living there, can't really check those data.
    They can be easily fooled by the targeted disinformation campaign.
    This is why I take people like Podolyaka with a huge grain of salt. He is not a military man, he is not political ... what he is, is some jobless blogger living on the donations of his patronite-like sponsor team, and he must feed them with constant content flow. Most of the TG or Twiter accounts are acting like a bullshit cannons, they share the very same content. If one subscribes to several sources, it takes a moment to realize that the content is just the same, everywhere.
    It was Sharyi who compromised himself in full last week, making himself an absolute fool in front of his audience. But people won't remember that in a week, as most of the population has the ability to focus smaller than a golden fish.

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    Stealthflanker
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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #24 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #24

    Post  Stealthflanker Mon Sep 12, 2022 9:12 am

    One concern in the Retreat from Kharkov is Ukrainian now have more space to put their long range weapons. Himars or whatever their Western backer give them.

    This one is particularly legit i think.

    https://twitter.com/Capt_Navy/status/1569206847877558273

    Russian air defense may engage the incoming munitions but it is the Ukraine that have the initiative. Unless their possible launch position is occupied or methods can be devised to rapidly engage the Ukrainian artillery as soon as they are firing, the threat will remain and can actually bite Russians quite hard sometime.

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    Post  ALAMO Mon Sep 12, 2022 9:15 am

    owais.usmani wrote:

    Looks like one Kalibr malfunctioned. dunno

    It has not.
    Just fly to another target.
    The reaction - that is lack of it - of the crowd is priceless Laughing Laughing

    flamming_python wrote:while Pilsudski's half-baked invasion as deep as it was; was counter-attacked harshly and the Polish army ended up on the Vistula defending their own capital instead.

    The thing is being called "Vistula miracle", which shows how this outcome was expected.
    It was hardly a miracle, but an effect of the Reds overstretching themselves, and lack of coordination and cooperation of the fronts based on personal animosities of the commanding officers, but don't call that loud in front of the Poles. We love miracles and drama. At least some of us Laughing

    flamming_python wrote:

    As for whether Europe is ready to support the Ukraine or not - who cares? The more material, financial aid and manpower they send to the Ukraine the more it exhausts them in a futile effort. Sending good money after bad so to speak.
    I doubt Russia is much concerned about whatever short-term decisions were reached at Rammstein air base. It simply assumes the West will fight to the end for its own dominance of world politics which is under major threat.

    And the other side doesn't sit calmly and wait for an outcome but acts decisively in the sphere of mutual cooperation.
    Xi is leaving China first time in 2 years, only to fly to Moscow and have some pirogi with his dear friend Vlad.
    The first cargo from Peter headed Mumbai via Caspia and Iran.
    Today the chief of Iran's Guard admitted that they supply a waste number of drones to Russia, and train a waste number of specialists. He didn't call "Russia" by name, only "one of the superpowers" -wonder whom he meant:lol: Laughing
    India is showing a middle finger to the west again and again, and the latest comments from its authorities are less and less polite toward the west that tries to push some narrative.

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    crod
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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #24 - Page 6 Empty Re: Russian special military operation in Ukraine #24

    Post  crod Mon Sep 12, 2022 10:45 am

    Stealthflanker wrote:One concern in the Retreat from Kharkov is Ukrainian now have more space to put their long range weapons. Himars or whatever their Western backer give them.  

    This one is particularly legit i think.

    https://twitter.com/Capt_Navy/status/1569206847877558273

    Russian air defense may engage the incoming munitions but it is the Ukraine that have the initiative.  Unless their possible launch position is occupied or methods can be devised to rapidly engage the Ukrainian artillery as soon as they are firing, the threat will remain and can actually bite Russians quite hard sometime.

    Also, the yanks only have to keep sending said systems and munitions, keeps their mic ticking over, thus jobs. No blood being split save for a few mercs that nobody other than their families care about so no voter problems either….just keep spending from afar like they did during the Russia/Afghanistan war, only back then it was supplied stingers that were causing headaches.
    It would be good if they can figure out where these supplies are coming in from and target then, quite a difficult task of course.

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