Russian special military operation in Ukraine #22

Dforce wrote:

flamming_python wrote:
But I'm assuming here the satellite pics are true. There were a lot of people in that area; I know those parts. Saki is a very popular resort town in the Crimea. If it were missiles, people would have seen them. So far no reports.

¨

Well it was popular yesterday, today many seems to be leaving occupied Crimea. Might be good to do that while that bridge is still there, I guess?

caveat emptor wrote:Craters are too shallow and small to be made by missiles with few hundred kilogram warhead.

Sure, they are, much more in line with smoked cigarette butts.

flamming_python wrote:

Dforce wrote:

flamming_python wrote:
But I'm assuming here the satellite pics are true. There were a lot of people in that area; I know those parts. Saki is a very popular resort town in the Crimea. If it were missiles, people would have seen them. So far no reports.

¨

Well it was popular yesterday, today many seems to be leaving occupied Crimea. Might be good to do that while that bridge is still there, I guess?

caveat emptor wrote:Craters are too shallow and small to be made by missiles with few hundred kilogram warhead.

Sure, they are, much more in line with smoked cigarette butts.

We're Russians, we don't give a shiт. It's our land. Don't know who it is that's leaving. I know 90% of Indian students left, but even among them there is the 10% that have stayed put.

As for who else left - dunno maybe the same people who emigrated from Russia outright to go to Georgia, Finland, Israel or wherever else too over the last few months. Screw them as well. There is no compromise to be made in an existential war against the latest Western expansionists. Washington, Zelensky and pals are for some reason convinced that shelling some villages in the Kursk region, a raid on an oil depot in Belgorod, or pulling off an attack on an airbase will destroy Russian morale by exposing some vulnerability or whatever. There is none to expose. It's the West (and earlier Nazi Germany) that banks on its myth on invincibility. Russia never had one. And its entire population will mobilize to its defense even if current assets were to prove insufficient. It is not 1 airbase that the Ukraine will have to hit to win the war, but all of them. It will have to shell all the villages to chase a significant amount of people away. Strike all the towns and cities. Otherwise no-one gives a damn, same as those holiday-makers in Saki who watched the fireworks then went back to drinking beer after a few minutes.

Once the Ukraine is dealt with it will be the turn of the next country that volunteers to contest 'occupied' Crimea.

kvs wrote:I think people need to relax over Turkey.   Russia is playing Turkey like a violin.   Why engage in a conflict with a country that is giving
NATzO a migraine?   The funding of insurrection in the 'stans will not stop if Russia starts waving fists at Turkey.   Is Russia supposed
to attack Turkey?   Seriously, either nuke the planet or learn how to deal with "frenemies".  

TMA1 wrote:The attack on crimean base is brazen. They didnt expect this and were not alert. Ruskie air defense is the best in the world and the only peers are Israel and America's aegis system. These systems use artificial intelligence and the best sensors money can buy but if the man in the loop isnt ready it can be compromised. Always remember this. Also ruskies can make silly mistakes but often dont repeat 5hem and DO learn from them. There is more to this than we know so any rash judgement or even careful intelligent guesswork must be taken with heaps of salt in this fog of war. As I said keep our wits about us.

sepheronx wrote:
Turkey is playing Russia like a violin.

They are getting tons of contracts from Russia all the while courting Russia's allies that are now actively working against Russia who just saved their ass (Kazakhstan) and funding terrorism and separatism in Russia.  Russia should have closed off Turkey from itself long ago but never did.  Now they play footsies with them while Turkey fucked them over.

flamming_python wrote:

That's a presumptuous set of assumptions

Of course they were alert. Shit happens sometimes, that's all. We don't know what it was yet, sabotage, missile strikes, whether the satellite pics are real or not

But this level of damage is not that significant. If only 1 serviceman was killed - who cares about the equipment? Or is Russia running out of raw materials or something? Like Germany in WW2 getting low on the tungsten? Like Japan now out of rubber?
A strike on the Khabarovsk aviation plant would be rather more serious.

The biggest blow is just defeatism and the attempt at a psychological blow, trying to force Russia's hand into this or the other. It's all nonsense. Hundreds of Ukrainian militants destroyed every 24h along with plenty of artillery, ammo and whatever else. There is a meat-grinder going on yet somehow the Ukraine does not slide into defeatism as readily as the panic-mongers at the ready on the Russian side. Can it already.

caveat emptor wrote:

flamming_python wrote:

That's a presumptuous set of assumptions

Of course they were alert. Shit happens sometimes, that's all. We don't know what it was yet, sabotage, missile strikes, whether the satellite pics are real or not

But this level of damage is not that significant. If only 1 serviceman was killed - who cares about the equipment? Or is Russia running out of raw materials or something? Like Germany in WW2 getting low on the tungsten? Like Japan now out of rubber?
A strike on the Khabarovsk aviation plant would be rather more serious.

The biggest blow is just defeatism and the attempt at a psychological blow, trying to force Russia's hand into this or the other. It's all nonsense. Hundreds of Ukrainian militants destroyed every 24h along with plenty of artillery, ammo and whatever else. There is a meat-grinder going on yet somehow the Ukraine does not slide into defeatism as readily as the panic-mongers at the ready on the Russian side. Can it already.

With that logic anything short of nuclear attack on Moscow is nothing. Point is that it was someone's **** up, as it was case with Moskva, and that someone has to pay for it. Especially don't muddle the water with some stupid statements. It is easy to lose credibility. No one normal here impkied that they will lose a war because of it.
I see your brash talk as some kind of coping, which is understandable, since you are Russian and personally invested.

caveat emptor wrote:

sepheronx wrote:
Turkey is playing Russia like a violin.

They are getting tons of contracts from Russia all the while courting Russia's allies that are now actively working against Russia who just saved their ass (Kazakhstan) and funding terrorism and separatism in Russia.  Russia should have closed off Turkey from itself long ago but never did.  Now they play footsies with them while Turkey fucked them over.

Nobody is playing anyone like violin. It is a classic relationship of shared interests.
As for Kazakhstan, problem is that Russia badly managed that relationship even with sizeable minority and population that is generally amicable to it.
Turkey is a frenemy and that's known. Problem is that Russian establishment sees Kazakhstan as friend and aly and that's not really true.  

sepheronx wrote:
Yes, I know. You are so smart, smarter than Russian establishment.

Do you actually believe for a second they don't know what's going on? They just won't act against it but they see what Kazakhstan is doing. Hence why they acted in hopes Tokayev would be better for Moscow and turns out he isn't.

TMA1 wrote:I agree with you, but some time needs to pass for the dust to settle and the bullshit to be weeded out of the narratives to see what is going on. I bet Russian MOD has largely done this and is planning multiple things to occur as a result. Transparency should always be part of this. Not like the heinous propaganda I see from the west, which is so flagrant and bad that I am disillusioned by it all.

caveat emptor wrote:

sepheronx wrote:
Yes, I know. You are so smart, smarter than Russian establishment.

Do you actually believe for a second they don't know what's going on? They just won't act against it but they see what Kazakhstan is doing. Hence why they acted in hopes Tokayev would be better for Moscow and turns out he isn't.

It's not about knowing, but what you want to do in regards to the situation.
In the past, you could hear Putin mutiple times say that he sees Russians, Ukrainians and Belarus as one people. That might have lead to the fact the army is constrained in a way it fights a war.
Call it delusion or however you wish. It differs from facts on the ground.
Kazakhstan's elites have relatively strong ties with the West. A lot of money is stashed in Britain. They allowed Turkish influence to work on creation of Turkic identity. Kazakhstan is a founding member of Organization of Turkic States. Nazarbayev actually suggested it's founding, as he saw Turkic identity as an counterbalance to strong Russian influence. Russia didn't say a word while he introduced "Kazakhistation" of northern regions, which are historically Russian, by moving rural population from the south amd changing names of towns and villages.

Belisarius wrote:

dionis wrote:
Yo, that thing looks like a King Tiger.

flamming_python wrote:The biggest blow is just defeatism and the attempt at a psychological blow, trying to force Russia's hand into this or the other. It's all nonsense. Hundreds of Ukrainian militants destroyed every 24h along with plenty of artillery, ammo and whatever else. There is a meat-grinder going on yet somehow the Ukraine does not slide into defeatism as readily as the panic-mongers at the ready on the Russian side. Can it already.