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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21

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    Belisarius


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    Post  Belisarius Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:52 pm

    Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E wrote:
    This is only possible if you have drones everywhere. Russia has too few Orions. With 20x or 40x Shahed 129 and the staff from Iran, the fascists will run ...

    Has it been said here that Russia has more than 50 Orions, and yet you say that they are very few and that 20 or 40 Shahed will change anything?

    Mig-31BM2 Super Irbis-E wrote:
    Learn from professionals. The Iranians kept Syria with their victims in the game. Russia did nothing until 2015. The Iranians still keep Syria in the game today. No more Saa without Iraner. Russia could also send 10x more planes there.

    Effect: zero


    When Russia intervened in Syria in 2015 Assad controls only 15% of the territory, two years later the Russians raised that percentage to 70%. And all this without a fleet of drone "game changers" you talk about

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    Belisarius


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    Post  Belisarius Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:58 pm

    The Russian Ministry of Defense reports that from July 5 to July 20, 4 HIMARS launchers and one transport-loading vehicle were destroyed in Ukraine

    The Pentagon denies this 🌝

    Lockheed Martin stock is back to pre 24th February levels so I‘d be denying it too. 😄
    https://t.me/levigodman/4224

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    SeigSoloyvov
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Fri Jul 22, 2022 8:05 pm

    Belisarius wrote:The Russian Ministry of Defense reports that from July 5 to July 20, 4 HIMARS launchers and one transport-loading vehicle were destroyed in Ukraine

    The Pentagon denies this 🌝

    Lockheed Martin stock is back to pre 24th February levels so I‘d be denying it too. 😄
    https://t.me/levigodman/4224

    Well proof needs to be given if your going to make the claim, so far no proof.
    Airbornewolf
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    Post  Airbornewolf Fri Jul 22, 2022 8:32 pm

    first wanting to donate F-16's, now A-10's.....

    these people are insane.
    I guess Patriot Park can open an entire NATO Nazi exhibition section when this war is over.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 12 The_us11

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 12 The_us12

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    Post  Werewolf Fri Jul 22, 2022 8:39 pm

    Airbornewolf wrote:first wanting to donate F-16's, now A-10's.....

    these people are insane.
    I guess Patriot Park can open an entire NATO Nazi exhibition section when this war is over.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 12 The_us11 Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 12 The_us12


    As they should! This will only show who always was our enemy from old to the youngest idiots which we unfortunately have, where kids are flaunting about the West of milk and honey.
    Education should be changed back to focus on STEM like it was in the Soviet Union with also a focus on history as the youth lacks to much knowledge.

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    Post  Hole Fri Jul 22, 2022 8:53 pm

    https://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2022/07/a-short-note-about-mobilization-and-math.html

    Quote:
    A popular Russian media outlet Arguments of the Week published this. 
    Армия России регулярно наносит удары по целям на Украине квазибаллистическими, аэробаллистическими или крылатыми ракетами оперативно-тактической, средней и большой дальностей морского, наземного и воздушного базирования. Противник всё ждёт, когда они закончатся, но этого не произойдёт никогда – промышленность уже вышла на такие обороты, что покрыла массовый расход ракет и различных корректируемых боеприпасов первых дней СВО. Сейчас их производство превышает ежесуточное расходование. То есть арсеналы этого оружия, наоборот, растут.
    Translation: The Russian army regularly strikes targets in Ukraine with quasi-ballistic, aeroballistic or cruise missiles of operational-tactical, medium and long range, sea, land and air based. The enemy is still waiting for them to run out, but this will never happen - the industry has already reached such a rate of production that it covered the mass consumption of missiles and various guided munitions since the first days of the SMO. Now their production exceeds the daily consumption. That is, the stocks of these weapons, on the contrary, are growing.

    tongue

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    Post  Hole Fri Jul 22, 2022 8:54 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 12 Fyogmi10
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    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 12 Fypldd10

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    Post  Hole Fri Jul 22, 2022 8:55 pm

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 12 Fyplde10
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    Post  owais.usmani Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:43 pm



    Man I wish I was there!

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    Post  GarryB Fri Jul 22, 2022 9:56 pm

    Good grief.. that's really something considering how small the missile is in Radar.

    A 227mm rocket is not a small missile... Grad rockets are smaller and ATGMs are even smaller... like Hellfire and Javelin missiles.

    None of which are actually stealthy... Russian AD systems have been shooting down Grads and Uragan and Smerch rockets since day one and two are smaller than MLRS rockets and one is bigger (the 300mm Smerch).

    In theory a Pantsyr can intercept at least 1 to at most 5 rockets

    In practise a single Pantsir battery can shoot down 24 rockets at once with ease.... as long as they are near the target or on the flight path of the rockets.

    Pantsirs have a thermal channel for passive operation. Since rocket salvos follow the same trajectory with but a slight interval if it sees one it would probably spot the rest. In theory you can program a MLRS mode where Pantsir shoots interceptors sequentially without waiting for the first missile to successfully intercept its target. Then the Pantsir can apply corrections to following interceptors as soon as the former hits or misses. This way you don't really need to wait in between engagements.

    These rockets are not stealthy and would be detected at rather decent ranges by radars upgraded to detect small drones made of plastic and with electric motors.

    A single vehicle should be able to knock down four targets at one time and the improved missiles and radar and electronics means one missile per target instead of two... the solid rocket boosters on the Pantsir missiles accelerate them up to 1.3km per second so they will be intercepting targets very quickly freeing up tracking channels to engage more rockets as the first rockets are shot down. The separate search radar can track all of the incoming rockets at once while the tracking radar guides the missiles to the leading rockets first. A battery can engage 24 targets at one time with one vehicle coordinating the defence so no missiles are wasted.

    The Kurganets version of the Sprut is probably going to have the T-14 turret - the ultimate in glass cannon technology.

    The "tank" in the Boomerang family might use the T-14 turret too, but in both cases they might use the long recoil gun of the Sprut in those turrets to reduce the recoil on those lighter vehicles to improve the performance in follow up shots when engaging multiple targets.

    The Sprut turret might be fitted to the Typhoon vehicle family for a tank type vehicle... perhaps in the 6 wheeled model...

    They aren't that hard to detect frankly. What is hard is to intercept a full salvo which is most of the time impossible because they come all at once and overwhelm your systems.

    Both TOR and Pantsir are intended to deal with limited rocket salvoes and both can engage incoming rocket barrages as the Kiev forces are threatening... not a full artillery barrage that HATO would direct at them, but one or two HIMARS or single M270 launches is 6 to 12 rockets which is trivial compared with the 40 rockets from a single Grad vehicle or 16 from a single Uragan or 12 from a single Smerch vehicle...

    Both Pantsir and TOR can deal with four simultaneous targets at a time per vehicle and with 6 vehicles in a battery that means 24 targets in the air at one time coordinated by the command vehicle in the battery.

    we can not compare the two situations easily . Ukraine is near peer adversary , increasingly supported by NATO , and able , though with a little delay , to start using complex Rocket system .

    Rushing the conflict will just increase friendly losses at a time when HATO weapons arrive and are used against civilians and then get destroyed.

    This is experience and practice that will be valuable for the Russian forces, but they need to avoid being fooled by their enemy to lose sight of their goals and change tactics that are clearly devastating the enemy forces to new tactics that might not be so effective.

    It is an industrial country with nuclear technology and satellite tech . Russia was not supporting the Taliban against America in Afghanistan with weapons at all , unlike America now supplying Ukraine , against Russia . In Afghanistan America needed a long war , to satisfy the MIC . Russia is not driven by MIC .

    Very true, but there are also similarities where the enemy no longer has the strength to face the invading force and will use cowardly tactics of killing their own people who they see as traitors... how often did the US change tactics in Afghanistan or Iraq or anywhere because the enemy was slaughtering the locals and they wanted to change tactics to save the locals?

    Never.

    Also war is costing twenty billion Dollars per day for Russia . And many troops and possibly conscripts needed by Russia ;

    What bullshit... where is that coming from? Their defence budget is 65 billion dollars per YEAR and they are still fighting in Syria too... 20 billion a day is more than the US spends in war.

    In fact the cost of this conflict would be a tiny fraction of that price and more importantly the cost of Russian gas and oil and coal and other exports to the west went up so much that Europe is probably paying for this conflict for both sides... Russias costs to extract gas and oil and coal have not changed so the massive increase in prices is pure profit for Russia.

    Some conscripts accidentally went to Ukraine, but have since been sent home... they have perhaps 10% of their military forces in the Ukraine at a time when over 50% of their forces are professional soldiers so I would say any conscript still in the Ukraine is there because they want to be.

    No talk of mobilisation or extra conscriptions...

    US alone spends ten times more on military , today heard they are sending some F16 . Did they think at first , send 777 or F16 ? No of course not . But they saw the slow pace , and lack of response , so they got hopeful and gathered around and built up the pressure slowly . They dream of a long proxy war . Weaken Russia and give it a boiling frog treatment . As I said , the side with the smaller resources , can not be the Turtle in the race .

    They don't use more resources because they don't need more resources, they are grinding down the Orcs using artillery and air power and drones... more soldiers are not needed nor would be useful... they would just become potential targets for enemy special forces and ambush teams.

    Although Himars is mobile and will need laser homing by bomber aircraft

    All you need are drones to find them... once found artillery or helicopters or Su-25s can rip them a new one.

    Also Odessa operation is best done by marine landing , using landing craft , instead of amphibious Tank operation across side River estuaries . On the other side of every Estuary is a Ukraininan with a weapon .

    They would have to use hovercraft because after all this time the main approaches will be heavily mined and registered for artillery bombardment... it is going to need an enormous amount of preparation before any attacks take place.

    A force of 30,000 infantry can travel on 1000 landing craft . Cost per craft about £ 10000 . Total cost 10 billion , half the total daily cost of war for Russia .

    It would make no sense to attack Odessa directly by sea... the D Day landings were nowhere near anything at all, which is why they succeeded... if they tried to land into a port they would have been massacred.

    Landing forces... whether by sea or by air are horribly vulnerable and are therefore normally done away from the actual objective... I would expect landings further down the coast and landings inland near an airport... the VDV capture an airport and hold it while heavy forces are landed and start to move towards the objective... potentially meeting up with sea based forces pushing inland from the coast, joining together to attack Odessa from the west or even from the north... cut the city off from supply and support from the north and then talk them through their options...

    I've expected good news on Iranian drones, but it seems that some people in Russian MIC and MOD really go out of their way to stop that. Pity, as several hundred drones would speed up operation.

    It will take time for them to look at what they have and evaluate what they might be interested in.

    Some of their drones might benefit from Russian engines or other components too.

    Again you claim there is a drone shortage... is that like the cruise missile shortage?

    There are tons of drones, everyday we see lancet and Kub used

    One of the benefits of drones is that they are cheap and simple to make in enormous numbers... but obviously Russia is different and everything is expensive and gold plated and slow to make and people on the interweb know better than they do. (sarcasm)


    The Russian army are professionally trained on domestic produced radio control modules and systems that are implemented across the forces and similar on systems like KUB, Lancet, Inokhodets, Orlan, and other such systems

    Not only that, they would have to integrate the Iranian drones and control systems into Russian networks... would look fucking stupid if a prized Iranian drone operates on the same frequency as a TOR air defence system so everywhere the Iranian drone operates the TOR batteries stop working... not that that would happen of course but you need to test everything working together to make sure it can work together before you deploy it otherwise you end up with **** ups like Zumwalt and F-35 and LCS and Ford class CVNs.


    The footages of bigger drones like Orion or Forpost are sporadic. Very few have been released.

    I have seen no footage of a lot of things, does that prove anything at all?

    Armed one present in very low numbers. IMO less than 10. Orion is barely delivered and Forpost-R that can use weapon entered service not long ago.

    Armed drones are not that amazing... weapons payloads reduce speed and range and endurance for the advantage of perhaps hitting one or two targets, when that weight in extra fuel would give you much better flight range and performance so you can loiter longer and find more targets for artillery and air power to engage.

    Suicide drones are being used but again in low amount.

    Suicide drones only make sense for very specific targets... a suicide drone is more expensive than an artillery shell and a single drone can only destroy one target while a proper recon drone can locate an enemy battery which can then be shelled for hours if need be... and the drone can monitor the engagement so the attack can continue until it is effective. In comparison a kamikazi drone finds and kills one target.

    Considering the air and artillery advantage the Russians have and the Ukies lack I can understand the Russians using recon drones and the Orcs using kamikazi drones... kamikazi was a desperate response to the superior military of the US and was more psychological in effect than practical.


    Russian are lagging behind in drones. Even if they have some good ones, they still lack numbers and strategy for them.

    So you keep saying... yet they seem to be winning anyway.

    The factory for Orion was finished only this year, few mo.th ago so the production is not yet at full speed.

    How many Orion drones do you think they could possibly need?

    They will also have to solve issues concerning importation and replacement of electronics.

    It was always a military drone... the very idea they would use foreign parts from the west in its design suggests incompetence at best... do you have proof?

    I think the specialty of the VDV should be to operate more like partisans or special forces troops.

    Turning them into "light armor troops" might not be the most optimal thing to do.

    They are highly mobile and very well trained and organised.... they are very useful troops on any battlefield.

    Caveat emptor wrote " Maybe you want to check some of the numbers you quote again.🤣" well I quoted the high number ( on purpose ) , I found on internet . The low number I found was 400 million USD per day . Still not cheap . Perhaps the reserves number of 650 billion USD is reliable ? Still with lowest estimate , the war can be funded for a couple of years only . Remember foreign currency reserves were confiscated , amount of 350 billion ? And revenue from oil and gas and Gold export also less or at best the same . So still economic reason favours a short war . Only a careless person would aim for a long war . You plan for a shortest war . But misfortune may extend the war .

    Dude... they are fighting Nazis with bio weapons and nukes in their future if they let them live and you think this war costing them too much is a reason to keep it short?

    This is not about fun or even sticking it to the US... the orcs are a threat and they are going to be eliminated... it wont take 10 years but it might take 2.

    I know there's a website trying to keep track of Russian equipment losses, but what about Ukrainian ones? I heard there was one doing both? Does anyone know of any? Thanks!

    Does not suit their agenda to publish such information... just look at the Russian losses site because most of them are Ukrainian anyway.

    Ark wrote " The controls and interface also use not only similar controls, but similar terminology and Cyrillic abbreviations " the point of obtaining Iranian drones , goes beyond immediate military advantages . It allows Iran and Russia to increase military cooperation that may increase in the future . The Russians ordered some French ships recently . They could have made these themselves . But considerations are of a bigger political nature . Writing on controls are not a problem .

    A ship is an incredibly complex thing and you really don't know if your ship design is successful or not until the first one or two are laid down and actually tested which for a brand new design can take the better part of a decade and if it turns out to be useless like the LCS then you are stuck with expensive bits of crap that took a decade to make and then you have to work out if you can modify the design to solve the problems (Ivan Gren) or if you have to start again from scratch.

    The French Mistral was a proven design in production that was ready to build with almost zero risk that could be in service in a fraction of the time it would take to hold a competition locally to develop designs and decide on one to build.

    The purpose was speed... the two Mistrals they ordered could have been in service already now, but of course the French screwed them.

    Well they got a good look at the plans and have now laid down two ships of their own design... will take until 2027 and 2028 for us to see them but they will be tailor made to their specifications for their equipment and systems and their climate requirements so after getting all their money back and making some money selling the Russian bits on the two carriers and the helicopters on the carriers to Egypt they came out of it better in every respect except the key one which was to have a helicopter carrier in service as quick as possible.

    Instead they will be getting a Russian design optimised to their own requirements... in a few years time... will be very useful then too... hopefully by then destroyers will have been laid down and frigates and corvettes will be in serial mass production.

    Point is that they dont have enough medium and heavy recon and strike platforms.

    With their current success they seem to be cutting through the Kiev forces reasonably well already.... the fact that we have not see a lot of medium and heavy drones and strike platforms doesn't tell us very much at all... they have four military districts that use drones in training and exercises and their experience in Syria has only increased that use and deployment of such systems... if things were desperate they could send drones from their four military districts to help with the conflict while new production drones could replace them if they were desperate.

    And Iranian drones would be a quick and fast solutions untill they can ramp up enough domestic platforms.

    But would they?

    I am not doubting that they will have good drones, but you can't just send a drone to the front line and it starts killing nazis right away... what support equipment does it need... what is its flight range... where can it be used from... are there any frequency conflicts with other systems and equipment on the battlefield?

    Lots of checks and tests need to be performed before they could be put in to service.

    Note most Russian systems sent to Syria had already gone through a range of tests and were made to standards that avoid conflicts and problems further down the track... Iranian systems don't go through that... and why would they?

    I agree. I hope that war won't take longer than a year or, at most, 18 months. They can put that money to better use.

    Covid19 was made in a US funded bio weapons lab... this war needs to take as long as it takes to eliminate the threat on Russias border.

    The money is being put to very good use already.

    Try to find and read all the **** up around Altius drone that happened over the last decade and money wasted.

    Most of the wasted money was because the military demanded drones but didn't know what the **** they wanted them for and so they made all sorts of demands for this and that and the other and then bought Forpost from Israel instead.

    Now they have experience from Syria and now Ukraine they will have a better idea of what they want in a drone, but of course they have a functioning air force and artillery branch so they need drone eyes mainly.

    Some people here act same way as Ukrainians. This war showed that Russian army has shortcomings and then you acknowledge them and rectify. Not pretend they don't exist and thump your chests. Leave that to Ukrainians.

    The irony of you saying that is amusing... it is the west claiming the Russians don't have any drones and that is why they are losing.... reinforced by some idiots listening to people in the field saying more drones would be good and then going on the interweb crying that our guys are all dying because we don't have 100,000 drones operating over them 24/7 keeping them safe because that is what drones do... look at Vanns posts... if Russia had a better president and not that idiot Putin the Russian military would have 10 million drones and not lost a single soldier in the whole conflict... Rolling Eyes

    The Russians are rectifying, hence why they now have 3 shift production for Orion drones at the new plant. Then of course Orlan and others.

    I suppose the Orion could act double as a heavier observation drone too while Russia waits.

    An important aspect is that we are talking about a new custom designed production plant... presumably the place where the original designs were made and built can still make them too so it is not like there is only one place they can be made and it opens next year.

    If they really needed them there are likely a few aircraft manufacturing places that could knock some together while they are not otherwise busy too.

    Although, maybe localize production of some heavier Iranian drones would have been better than forpost localized production.

    Forpost is a good solid design that is useful.... the experience they have gained from using it in conflicts and exercises has been very valuable and well worth the money spent on it.

    I was thinking about purchasing most suited platforms and testing them in real war conditions. Iranians have been using drones extensively for 2 decades already. If they perform better than analog Russian platforms maybe choose to purchase manufacturing license. Also, that would solve short term needs at the front.

    How will they know if they perform better or worse without testing them... or do you think throwing them in to a real conflict is a good idea... sounds like an unnecessary gamble to me... Some things can probably be mass produced in Iran that don't make sense in Russia and vice versa...


    So idk where there is a drone shortage

    The Shortage is in drone footage... right now most people in the west think the Orcs they are supporting are winning or are at least holding the Russians back effectively.... there will come a time when they claim they are about to initiate massive counter attacks to push Russian forces back to Crimea... that might be a good time to reveal to the Ukrainian people and the western world what has happened to all those conscripts before them... then hopefully a self inflicted change in government might take place and some more realistic discussions can take place.... or not.

    Whydid the Russian MOD habe no problems with license producing an Israeli drone, but theyre so apprehensive qbout using iranian drones? Is there a jew lobby trying to firce russian soldiers not to use Iranian weapons?

    They didn't decide that purchase overnight... it took years, and lots of testing and negotiations too.

    Buying Iranian or Chinese drones has only recently become a thought because in the past there was no urgency at all... now there is clearly interest... and why not.

    Why was the Russian MoD also ok with buying canon cameras for the orlan?

    Possibly better quality at a good price.... what they should have done was in return for making an enormous order for those cameras to get local production rights put into the contracts.

    According to the trajectory that we’re seeing, it appears that Russia used the 9M542 high-precision 300-mm rocket-propelled munition for the Tornado-S MLRS. The 9M542 corrects its own flight path mid flight and sports a range of 120 kilometres. The 9M542 missile as well as the 549 & 544 versions— are direct analogues to Ukraine’s HIMARS with accuracy while delivering more explosive power.

    Excellent. The HIMARS and M270 rocket is a 227mm weapon closer in size and performance to the 220mm Uragan rocket.

    Bottom line is that russians need moreMALE UCAVs RIGHT THIS MOMENT

    Russian industry can't produce enough MALE UCAVs

    You say that but a HIMARS with a tarp over it and other changes to make it not look like a HIMARS so they can move it around work against drones as well as satellites.... I mean how many drones did the west have in Afghanistan or Syria... did they find all their enemy forces and help destroy them?

    The vast majority of targets they hit with drones were fucking friendlies... that man and his brother and a dozen of their kids murdered in Afghanistan by a drone looking for ISIS... and they actually worked for the Americans... how many trigger happy drone operators would you like operating over the Ukraine?

    Choking up lines of communication asking to attack SUVs and trucks in suspicious places might lead to less targets being hit rather than more... but you are the expert and know better.

    Iran CAN provide MALE UCAVs in large quantities

    Russian lives CAN be saved by having MALE UCAVs right this moment

    MALE drones would be useful for hunting mobile artillery but they are not perfect 100% effective either.

    And those artillery vehicles are not firing at Russian positions.

    More ukrainian equipment can be destroyed with MALE UCAVs, but they dont exist in enough quantity

    UCAV is a contradiction to MALE... adding weapons reduces their endurance and makes them less effective.

    Therfore if the MoD refuses to buy more MALE UCAVs even when they're available, the MoD are traitors endangering russian lives and impeding the performance of russian recon.

    Ordering them right now will not get them any where near any front line within 3 months... they probably need to make them, they need to transfer them to Russia, Russia needs to set up a unit to train with them... they will need to adapt them to use Russian weapons and communications equipment and other sensitive stuff, and they would also need to make sure they are electronically compatible with everything they will be working with or working near and that is Army, Navy, and Air Force for electronic compatibility.

    If that was correct we would see a daily footage of strikes.

    The number of videos released does not equate in any way to the number of platforms currently being used in this conflict.

    It would help immensely with liquidation of MLRS and SPGs. You solve those and war is over.

    Of course it would because the US military are a bunch of fucking morons and those censored in HATO are even dumber and don't know how to operate in a way that makes them hard to find on a battlefield... all those HIMARS and M270s will be driving around with transponders operating notifying all drones in the area that they are there for safety purposes... so the enemy don't accidentally attack innocent civilian vehicles... Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

    50 isnt enough for a 1400km frontline with extremely intricate fortifications, optically guided SAMs and mobile rocket launchers shooting and scooting. Russia needs at least 400 MALE UCAVs

    They are defending their own forces first and foremost... trying to protect a 1,400km stretch of mostly empty space means protecting nothing at all and using 400 drones to do that would be a complete waste of their potential.

    Flying them deep behind enemy lines hitting fuel dumps and weapon dumps and ammo dumps and enemy HQs and command locations and of course repair places is rather more valuable.

    By destroying Ukrainian arty faster, you've destroyed, by far, best component of their army.
    And you reduce further losses of your soldiers and civilians. It's pretty simple.

    Their artillery is as ineffectual as its air power... it comes out briefly and tries to attack civilians because Russian forces are too well protected and then they disappear... either into a hideyhole if they are quick or a cloud of smoke if they are not... more drones might allow that hidey hole to be destroyed too but we have seen they are already doing that.

    They will be hiding every vehicle they have in buildings and taking them out to use them and then hiding them back inside the buildings... but obviously there will also be civilians doing the same thing except not shelling anyone of course.

    Yes. 500 dead terrbats are worth less than one ploinked krab or pzh2000

    Both are necessary.

    Also satellites are better than sending drones to get shot down to recon the rear

    Russian army knows what it's doing , some drones change nothing

    Russia has target drones used for air defence forces practise which have luneberg lenses to change the RCS to appear to be a range of different targets... sending dozens of those to fly around western Ukraine would be useful because they can be fitted with telemetry equipment to send when they are shot down... the Orcs waste a SAM on something very cheap and simple and potentially reveals the location of the SAM vehicle too.

    You're ok with losing more Russian soldiers than it is needed?

    Orc artillery is not being directed at Russian soldiers...

    It is being directed at Ukrainian civilians in Russian occupied and DNR/LNR occupied areas.

    Every single one Russian military correspondent on the ground says that there's no enough drones. As i said before, these people don't talk out of their ass.

    And which Iranian drone do you think will solve all their problems and make this a casualty free operation from now on?

    What is difficult in producing drones (assuming Russia is struggling in this area), they don’t look too complicated to be produced.

    The whole point of most drones is that they are cheap and simple to mass produce, but you need the bits to go inside like motors and batteries and cameras and datalinks and autopilots.

    The original delay was because Russian government decided that all components should be manufactured in Russia. This is very different
    from most of the other drones including the overhyped Bayraktar which is full of imported components (from Canada, etc.). But this delay
    has not been an issue for years and all the drivel about Russia lacking drones is the same BS as HIMARS, M777, Stingers, etc. being "game
    changers".

    Considering the circumstances now I would say manufacturing all the parts in Russia is a basic common sense demand... well worth the delay.

    I wonder how many extra bushels of wheat (for export) can be grown with each recycled hohol inbred?

    Sift through the next cargo ship and you might find fingers and ears and bits and pieces... What a Face

    Iran is far ahead of Russia in manufacture, in the company such as education and weapons as well as in the field of fighting drones. Russia is lagging back here for 10 years. Anyone who denies this only makes a lie.

    Being able to make something doesn't make it useful.... Russia has a very broad range of drones they are using and have been using for quite some time... from S-7 0 through to hand launched drones.... a 10 year gap would mean they had none, which is the real lie here.

    The attack on Gomel airport at the start of this adventure showed VDV forces deploying quad copter drones, so they clearly used them from the start.

    With 20x or 40x Shahed 129 and the staff from Iran, the fascists will run ... Iran knows exactly how to do what with it. In addition, there are the self-mourning drones and the RQ-170 copies.

    Pretty sure Iranian staff wont get involved in this conflict, and I think you overestimate the effect drones could have... odds are it would just encourage HATO to send more air defence systems to the Orcs... they already have plenty of stingers which appear to be helpless against Russian helicopters and Russian attack aircraft, but against drones they might be more effective... like Russian air defence was against Turkish drones.


    The cooperation between the two countries will finally deepen. This is absolutely necessary because only both have a chance to survive.

    I certainly agree that cooperation would make a lot of sense for both countries, the Iranians are very clever people and kept F-14s operating long after the US retired them because they were getting too expensive to operate... too expensive for the US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    They pretty much themselves admit its all BS in the last two sentences, but the fantasy of a Ukrainian counter-offensive that they entertain instead is scarcely better

    Look at who wrote it... McFall... wasn't there a US ambassador to Russia called McFall... maybe he has had a sex change?

    Drones against Ukraine and Co.: Effect high
    Why because no Shorad AD.

    Lots of stinger and OSA and a few BUK and S-300 around the place... though drawing out enemy AD is also a good thing too but make sure you don't spend too much money on the targets they are firing at.

    I would say not much could beat an S-70 flying at medium to high altitude using the optics pods developed for the Su-57... they likely have other recon pods they could test too.

    Russia saved all those asses

    Russia don't need anyone

    When China has courage to do SMO, they can call us for help , the real pros

    Russia benefits from isolation from the west, but not from the rest of the world...

    Iran wanting to join BRICS could be a turning point in Russian and Iranian relations (but also in Iranian relations with other BRICS countries too) and this is going to be a good thing for everyone involved.

    Архангельск wtf man? Are you on крокодил or something?

    Just sick of fanboys who think some wonder weapon or wonder equipment will somehow transform any fighting force into something that never loses a man in combat.

    Whether it is drones or HIMARS or M270 or Javelin or M777 or Stinger or NLAW or starstreak or Harpoon or a Caesar or Krab or whatever...

    Western media is just beyond ridiculous. They though are trying to make it sound like Russia will fall apart yet they themselves are falling apart.

    That is the beauty because when they make these claims it reveals their own weaknesses and paranoid fears... fractions appearing in the EU as they start to refuse to comply with sanctions that hurt them more than they hurt Russia and don't hurt the US at all...

    Iran is utterly reliant on reverse engineering downed American UAVs to advance its development of its drone program - a feat that is only made possible by Russian EW assets in the first place mind you. Iran has the operational experience, but to say its technologically superior to Russia is just blowing hot air.

    Cooperation offers much promise though.

    Benefits both sides against barbaric EUROPE and America and NATO . I think Iranians shared technology with Russia and China , when they capture American drone !

    Russia is not threat to Iran and Iran is no threat to Russia... and working together is vastly more productive than working away on your own... cooperation just makes sense.

    🇷🇺⚡Russia is preparing for a massive offensive to end this war once and for all, they will do it in the next 30 days - military observer, retired US Army Colonel Douglas McGregor

    Based on the last five words of that comment we can ignore the prediction entirely.

    So what is the point of grain shipment agreement ?

    Is it strictly Russian - Turkish agreement with Ukrainians as token signatories?

    Most of the countries that would starve if that grain was destroyed or just sat and rotted would not be Russian enemies like the west, they would be poor countries that the west would manipulate into a weapon saying the starving created was caused by Russia.

    Russia knows it is not true and that western ships and insurance companies that refuse to transport and insure Russian grain sales because of EU sanctions hide the fact that the EU is pretending to not be banning Russian food exports because they want a world wide famine they can blame on Russia.

    first wanting to donate F-16's, now A-10's.....

    Neither would last very long against S-400 and Su-35s.

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    Post  Airbornewolf Fri Jul 22, 2022 10:05 pm

    Im a bit early for today, but....

    Time for some Z.O.V activities.

    RF Kub-UAV kamikaze drones strike Ukrainian troops near Kherson



    DPR ATGM takes out Ukrainian BMP



    RF kamikaze drone takes out Artillery



    missile attack on the ammunition depot of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Nikolaev



    I uploaded some more, but i don't want to clog the thread here completely.

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    Post  kvs Fri Jul 22, 2022 10:17 pm

    Mercouris is spending a lot of time discussing HIMARS because of his audience. The amount of wonder waffle derangement over this
    weapons systems is extreme. The Kerch Strait bridge all of the sudden becomes vulnerable because of HIMARS. GTFO. None of
    the missiles for the HIMARS including the hyped beyond all reason 300 km range ones are "game changers" compared to Tochka-Us.
    If Kiev had nothing to show with its dedicated missile systems and not MLRS variants, then it will have nothing to show with precious
    HIMARS.

    All I am seeing with HIMARS is a frenzy of attacks on civilian targets, including the bridge in Kherson. This is being cast as some
    sort of military achievement. Mercouris waffles about the success of Russian interception of HIMARS rockets, but that does not
    make this success any less real.

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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Fri Jul 22, 2022 11:22 pm

    kvs wrote:Mercouris is spending a lot of time discussing HIMARS because of his audience.   The amount of wonder waffle derangement over this
    weapons systems is extreme.   The Kerch Strait bridge all of the sudden becomes vulnerable because of HIMARS.   GTFO.   None of
    the missiles for the HIMARS including the hyped beyond all reason 300 km range ones are "game changers" compared to Tochka-Us.
    If Kiev had nothing to show with its dedicated missile systems and not MLRS variants, then it will have nothing to show with precious
    HIMARS.  

    All I am seeing with HIMARS is a frenzy of attacks on civilian targets, including the bridge in Kherson.   This is being cast as some
    sort of military achievement.   Mercouris waffles about the success of Russian interception of HIMARS rockets, but that does not
    make this success any less real.  

    Ukraine wasn't given the long range missiles....you just lied here bud. Know what your talking about before you make your posts.
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    Post  ucmvulcan Fri Jul 22, 2022 11:58 pm

    Airbornewolf wrote:first wanting to donate F-16's, now A-10's.....

    these people are insane.
    I guess Patriot Park can open an entire NATO Nazi exhibition section when this war is over.

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 12 The_us11

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 12 The_us12

    Never understood Sean Penn's argument for F-16s and A-10s to Ukraine. Aircraft performance is overwhelmingly about pilot experience. This means to effectively use a plane you have to have many thousands of hours in the cockpit so you know how it works, so you can feel it, so you can know what it can and cannot do. It's why in Korea, Chinese and North Korean pilots were never able to use their MiG 15s to full effect and why American pilots were able to claim a massive kill ratio in the F-86, but why simultaneously Russian pilots were able to use the MiG 15 to full effect and were able to gain a favorable kill ratio.

    It's why the Vietnamese were able to use MiG 19s and MiG 21s to wipe out Phantoms and other American planes. Its why the Soviets used the MiG 25 effectively against Israel but Arab states could not. You cannot just dump a pilot with minimal training on a plane and expect anything more than for him to be a kamikaze, but then Sean Penn is actually a role played by the mentally challenged Sam Dawson from I am Sam.
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    Post  limb Sat Jul 23, 2022 12:40 am

    Why cant the Russians design a jammer that jams gps signals but not glonass signals? Russia Definitely needs to jam all gps.

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    Post  Hole Sat Jul 23, 2022 12:47 am

     Iranians have been using drones extensively for 2 decades already. 

    Russia is using drones since the 50´s. Including models that could reach 3.000km/h and could be launched from everywhere.

    Iran only used a handful of drones against Saudi-Arabia, a country "protected" by Patriots.  Laughing

    Also there are a lot of experts that doubt that Iran can really produce a lot of bigger drones. They show them standing around in some tunnels but in exercises the use mostly
    smaller drones which are at best on par with the Forpost.

    By the way the Iranians are "so great" in using drones because they can´t build real combat aircraft.
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    Post  PapaDragon Sat Jul 23, 2022 1:00 am


    Can we put this discussion on pause until something relevant starts happening again?



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    Post  flamming_python Sat Jul 23, 2022 1:14 am

    Hole wrote:
     Iranians have been using drones extensively for 2 decades already. 

    Russia is using drones since the 50´s. Including models that could reach 3.000km/h and could be launched from everywhere.

    Iran only used a handful of drones against Saudi-Arabia, a country "protected" by Patriots.  Laughing

    Also there are a lot of experts that doubt that Iran can really produce a lot of bigger drones. They show them standing around in some tunnels but in exercises the use mostly
    smaller drones which are at best on par with the Forpost.

    By the way the Iranians are "so great" in using drones because they can´t build real combat aircraft.

    The DNR forces were the most experienced out of any Russian or Russian allied forces in using recon and mini-drones in modern warfare

    This despite the fact that this army and country has only existed for 8 years

    However them having fought low-intensity skirmishes continuously throughout that time has given them all the experience and expertise they need

    Similar with the Iranians. They have used their drones constantly, all sorts of classes of them. Their engineering and R&D potential does not reach the level of Russia's, but it's plenty enough to act on feedback, come up with new models and new iterations with improvements, introduce them into service, rinse & repeat. What they end up with is combat-proven equipment that takes into account all possible lessons of modern warfare.
    And yes there is no shame in Russia buying their models and learning from them where appropriate. Even introducing their drones into service directly as a stop gap. Russia did the same with Italian Ivecos, tried to buy French Mistrals (and did buy the French thermal sights), and so on.

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    Post  zorobabel Sat Jul 23, 2022 1:24 am

    Hole wrote:By the way the Iranians are "so great" in using drones because they can´t build real combat aircraft.
    Well, yeah, that's the whole point. Iran obviously has drone production lines running that are immune to Western-backed sanctions. If they rely on any foreign components, the agreements with Chinese or other Asian suppliers are already in place.

    Look at the video Airbornewolf posted above of the KUB-BLA attack. Four expended rapidly. Almost all pro-RU sources stated there has been a lack of drones since the beginning of the conflict, only now beginning to be partly rectified. If Iran can ramp up production and provide extra drones, why not? It's just another tool in the toolbox.

    Though I would agree that for the moment, it is mostly unproductive speculation.

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    Post  Arrow Sat Jul 23, 2022 2:13 am

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 12 6219d81d30f0
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    Post  SeigSoloyvov Sat Jul 23, 2022 2:38 am

    This next series of battles for the russians will be the hardest, after these, there are just open plains.

    Ukraine will fight tooth and nail here since they cannot afford to lose the natural defensive positions and all the defensive they built up during those eight years

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    Post  JohninMK Sat Jul 23, 2022 3:06 am

    flamming_python wrote:
    They pretty much themselves admit its all BS in the last two sentences, but the fantasy of a Ukrainian counter-offensive that they entertain instead is scarcely better

    Sounds to me like they are just after some of the US$ flowing into the area.

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    Post  Isos Sat Jul 23, 2022 3:17 am

    SeigSoloyvov wrote:This next series of battles for the russians will be the hardest, after these, there are just open plains.

    Ukraine will fight tooth and nail here since they cannot afford to lose the natural defensive positions and all the defensive they built up during those eight years

    Ukrainians suffered too many casualties. I doubt the reservist and old people they oblige to go to the front can resist against russian forces.

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    Post  Arkanghelsk Sat Jul 23, 2022 3:34 am

    Russian special military operation in Ukraine #21 - Page 12 Karte_12

    It's quite interesting in 1943 , the same Donbass operation took a month

    Lots of casualties to go through Konstantinovka

    Same routes and defensive strategy using the river as buffer, and fortifying the hills and urban agglomeration

    The donbass tactic is not new

    But Russia slowed it down for less casualties

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    Post  Hole Sat Jul 23, 2022 3:51 am

    https://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2022/07/a-peculiar-math.html

    Western (NATO) propaganda told us that the M777 and HIMASS would be used to destroy russian artillery. In reality 99% of the attacks are against civilian targets,
    because they tried to use the M777 in counter-battery fire and received a bloody nose. Now you can watch NATO mercenaries driving around in HIMASS panicly trying
    to avoid being hit by russian high-precision weapons. They can´t be used to support military actions. This are not Wunderwaffen but Vergeltungswaffen (retaliatory weapons)
    like V-1 and V-2. This proves that there is no VSU left, even with NATO help they´re just a bunch of single units fighting for themselves.

    The best NATO can come up with in a fight against Russia are ISIS-style terror attacks. That´s what you get for 1,4 Trill. $.  Laughing Laughing Laughing

    My last comment to the drone saga: the SMO sees the most massive use of drones of all kinds in military history. No other country or group of countries ( Wink ) has ever used so
    many drones. In the last couple of days there was a bunch of videos released showing the use of suicide drones/loitering ammunitions. Following the established pattern of the
    russian MoD this is only 5 to 10% of what was really used which means in the last days alone there were some 50+ suicide drones used. This is more then in the whole Karabach/Azeri
    conflict.

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